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In the end xanax throws the test towards inconclusive more than anything else. It might prevent the test results being that she is being deceptive if she lies but it's not likely to get her a non-deceptive answer.

I'd spring for the blood test if there's any question whether the results will impact any decisions you might make in the future or even if the results one way or the other will give you more peace of mind in your recovery without her. It adds a little more certainty to the results.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:16 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

Hi Mr F

Sorry again for your troubles. I think you would go a long way giving yourself peace of mind if you have a Short discussion w your WW about what the poly means to you in the greater context of things.

I’ll write this out but frame it any way that works for you.

That’s it. Make it clear what this does and does not mean and then go thru with it. That’s the best I can recommend.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:54 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

and it's like it all came back, all the ifs and pictures of them together. I was so angry I almost woke her up in the middle of a night to shout at her and tell her I don't care about this stupid poly or anything, that it's just over and I don't want to see her cheating, lying face one more time in my life

Then it really doesn't matter what the poly says, or if the drugs will impact the results, does it?

Sounds like you are (justifiably) done.

So I would say let her do her dog and pony show with the poly, then then continue on your current path of separation/divorce.

grubs as I said, not sure about the blood test. I doubt she will try to cheat, and from what I was told the impact of Xanax on a result is debatable at best. But I will think about it over the weekend

Stevesnall those points you mentioned we have already discussed and continue to do so. She makes it very clear she won't give up

Then it really doesn't matter what the poly says, or if the drugs will impact the results, does it?

Sounds like you are (justifiably) done.

You know, those feelings and emotions come and go in waves, so I learned to not put too much thought into it. I am fine most of the time

[This message edited by MrFlibble at 11:23 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

She could very well “pass the polygraph” by simply answering each question honestly.

Example.

Question: Did you have sexual intercourse with SH?

Answer: Yes!

Conclusion: There was no deception to the above question.

What I’m saying is, she can pass the polygraph with flying colors, while at the same time admitting to sex with SH.

“See Mr F.....I did not lie to the questions asked.....I passed the poly! Where’s my second chance you promised?” - Mrs F

We had a minor argument this morning, because my W somehow found out some of my friends are trying to set me up with this one girl and she went mental. Not good

Not trying to make light of your WW's feelings, but I had a bit of a chuckle when I read this. My XWW did the same back when we were waiting on the divorce decree to come through and she found out I had a FWB. She too went off the rails when she heard it.

Your WW freaked out because she has a hard time believing that other women find you desirable and attractive. One of the reasons she cheated was because she took you for granted. She assumed no other woman would try to steal you away, because, well, you were her steady boring husband. Well, now she realizes that is just not true and that you are valuable and very desirable to women.

Waywards never realize this until after the fact when it is already too late and another man or woman has swooped in to take their place. Not saying this is what is going on with you, but it happens all the time.

Right now your WW's attraction towards you is probably through the roof, because for the first time she is on the verge of losing you, and that makes her desire you more.

[This message edited by Westway at 11:47 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

I don't know, probably. But I always got a lot of attention from other women, so it's nothing new for her. I get hit on pretty regulary

We also never had lost the hots for each other, and now with her desperate attempts to reconnect and me being all worked up (lost 8kg already and I have a real muscles for the first time in my life!) it's harder and harder to ressist. Being in the house like 90% of the time does not help either. I actually thought that putting my energy into working out will help but it actually did the opposite. Running out of cold showers so to speak

Long solitary walks in the park are my recommendation.

Obviously "counseling for your ego" is just straight up abusive. And "humans muff up" sounds like elven talk or something out of Bible School infidelity class. At the very least, it reveals the mindset and history of a muffer-upper expecting to be forgiven instead of begging. The worst is attacking you alone in the dark so to speak, so I say good on you for the exposure. And "You will heal when you let go of 'your hurt'" isn't even meaningful armchair psychology. It's just patronizing bull sh-t from someone who's never personally experienced the pain of betrayal and infidelity.

[This message edited by merrmeade at 10:38 AM, Saturday, April 17th]

And THIS Mr. Flibble just makes me livid on your behalf:

She asked me today if I will take her back when (not if!) she passes the poly...

I tried to put those questions together but it turned out to be a massive trigger. Mind movies (haven't had those in a while) and all that came back. So I will do it over this weekend.

It's shocking, painful, brash and profoundly insensitive. Those are the words of someone who "doesn't get it." It's almost childish. 'If I do what you want, can we play like before?' There's no one in there relating to the seriousness of the injury done. It's just someone trying to get out of detention. She's not reflecting back to you respect for what you've suffered. She just wants to figure out the solution and get past this.

My husband was like that. I think very few WSs are not like that. When they read the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair" book, that kind just sees a way out - like "Oh, I have to do this thing and then that and then we'll be able to MOVE ON - so let me do it fast!"

I would suggest, Flibble,, that it's not just the questions that are creating a trigger for you, but also the superficial, almost flip way she relates to events. When she reduces everything to one simple formula or question: If I do this thing will everything go back to normal? - when she does that, she reveals that she's just waiting to be shown the switch to turn to bury this once and for all. I'd say that's missing the point a wee bit.

It's shocking, painful, brash and profoundly insensitive. Those are the words of someone who "doesn't get it." It's almost childish. 'If I do what you want, can we play like before?' There's no one in there relating to the seriousness of the injury done. It's just someone trying to get out of detention. She's not reflecting back to you respect for what you've suffered. She just wants to figure out the solution and get past this.

My husband was like that. I think very few WSs are not like that. When they read the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair" book, that kind just sees a way out - like "Oh, I have to do this thing and then that and then we'll be able to MOVE ON - so let me do it fast!"

I would suggest, Flibble,, that it's not just the questions that are creating a trigger for you, but also the superficial, almost flip way she relates to events. When she reduces everything to one simple formula or question: If I do this thing will everything go back to normal? - when she does that, she reveals that she's just waiting to be shown the switch to turn to bury this once and for all. I'd say that's missing the point a wee bit.

Very much on point Merrymeade.

As I mention over and over again, once confronted, most cheaters are not focused at all on what they have done to the betrayed spouse.

Nor are they introspective about what they have wrought with their actions and what that reveals about their character.

They are focused on what they can do to "get out of trouble".

That's why when I read "Get him/her into therapy" in particular, but lots of other requirements for the cheater to meet as well, I feel they are more or less pointless because the true change has to come from within the cheater.

I generally advocate for the betrayed spouse to find out as much information as possible, both past and current/ongoing, so they can see who they are really dealing with. Grownups truly "changing" is a relatively rare occurrence.

And of course, even if someone does truly change, which is a lengthy process fraught with setbacks and hurt, once you know what they really did and really are, the question becomes, do you really care if they change after what they did to you?

That's the answer one must understand before they take the huge risk of sticking with a cheater who is most likely just trying to get out of trouble, as you said, "like a child".

XANAX

I know a good bit about Xanax.

What does Xanax do?

It eases feelings of stress and aids in controlling panic etc.

Xanax works by increasing the effects of gamma-aminobutyric acid in the brain. This is a neurotransmitter that increases feelings of calmness.

***

How long does the effects of Xanax last?

- Most people start feeling the effects within 5 - 15 minutes

- Peak impact is between 2 -4 hours from ingestion, though the "fuzzy effects" may last several more hours.

***

How long does Xanax stay within the bloodstream and what is the half-life?

The average half-life of Xanax in the blood is 11.2 hours in healthy adults, meaning that half of the drug has been metabolized and eliminated in the urine in that time frame. It takes about five half-lives for 98% of a drug dose to clear the body, so Xanax takes 2–4 days to be fully eliminated from the body.

***

Takeaways:

1) If your wife takes Xanax and it is active during the polygraph, it is absolutely a way for her to try to dodge the polygraph!

The reason is that essentially, a polygraph measures the physical responses of stress that people exhibit when they lie - basically it looks for symptoms of "panic" that may not appear to the naked eye.

XANAX SUPPRESSES THOSE FEELINGS OF PANIC - That's what it does. It is for people dealing with stress and panic.

What was the dosage? .5mg? 1mg? More?

Will it work to evade the polygraph? I can't say. But it has a good chance of "fucking it up".

Polygraphs are supposed to be administered to a subject who is not under the influence of anything or the results cannot be trusted - every polygraph administrator I have researched (too many) have explained this.

+++++++++

2) You should make sure she does not take the Xanax for at least 24 hours before the polygraph. She will be panicking during that time. So what? This is the situation she has created, and polygraphs calibrate for panic and stress.

If it were me I would stick by her side at all times, no matter what she was doing - and I mean everywhere - no privacy at all. I would seize all drugs of any kind, including alcohol.

I would let her know that if you catch her trying to ingest anything to throw the test, she is in deep shit.

There is a good chance that during this period just prior to the polygraph while you are making sure she doesn't try to throw the test, that she starts coughing up new information and details.

Mr Flibble, please look up "polygraph evasion techniques". Then let her know you have researched it and are not going for it.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 9:15 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]

Propranolol

Another medicine/drug you should be on the lookout for is "Propranolol".

Propranolol is a "beta blocker"

Propranolol is a drug used to treat heart problems, high blood pressure, and ANXIETY.

Among other things, it helps control nervous reactions like rapid heartbeat and blood pressure.

***

You would do well to Google "Polygraph evasion techniques", "Xanax polygraph", "Valium polygraph", "Propranolol polygraph" etc.

***

Mr Flibble - Your wife has lied to you over and over again. Don't make the mistake of believing she is honest now.

I found out last week she's on Xanax since the end of February. She didn't tell me because she was ashamed, I found an empty box in a trash can.

You keep making the same mistake, by either ascribing a preferable reason for your wife's behavior or accepting her rationale.

- She was taking Xanax because it controlled her feelings of panic and stress

- She didn't tell you because she doesn't feel the need to tell you things that she should be sharing you if it does not suit her.

It's not necessarily a bad thing that she was taking Xanax. She created this stress and she found a way to deal with it.

The bad thing, as usual, is she hid it from you because she decides what you need to know and not know. And that's how cheaters think.

Your wife still thinks like a cheater. Be prepared.

I found out last week she's on Xanax since the end of February. She didn't tell me because she was ashamed, I found an empty box in a trash can.

I too found this very concerning. Even under the best of circumstances, she absolutely SHOULD NOT under ANY circumstances be lying to you. Her lie conveniently involving a drug known for screwing with polygraph results? Very sketchy.

Would she be willing to turn over her Xanax to you Sunday night? Would there be a way for you to check how many she has before you ask her about it to see if she gives you all of them or not?

I'd like to remind you - the poly has as much weight as you allow it. What's concerning is the fact that she has given you an immense amount of lip service about honesty, authenticity, and R BUT also felt comfortable to lie to you about the Xanax which would probably barely even register on your radar had she been honest about it. I mean, would you have cared if 3 weeks ago she said she was being prescribed Xanax? No. And after all this, she really believes it's "embarrassing" to own up to it? Um, more embarrassing than having to admit she cheated and all of the details regarding it? More embarrassing than having to take a poly or deal with the D? I'm not buying it. So either she's still a liar who thinks it's fine to keep lying if she feels the slightest bit inconvenienced and uncomfortable about the truth OR she has an agenda and reason for not telling you. Both are terrible. Both say that she's not R material and now the polygraph is about to be as useful as toilet paper unless you have some form of assurance that she will not be under the influence while taking the test.

merrmeade I don't know, there are times when she says things like that but more often than not she proves she realizes how much she screwed up. She asks me often what she can do to help and I have no doubt if she could take all the pain off me she would do it in a heartbeat. But does it matter? The damage is done, there is no way how to undo what she did.

Her questions about getting back together are out of desperation and what I hope is love. I don't know if it's even possible but she told me multiple times during our talks that she never stopped loving me, not even during her A. She told herself many justifications but in her moments of clarity she felt ashamed of herself for this. I tend to believe this because I was there to witness it firsthand. I believe it's called compartmentalization - it was almost like her A had nothing to do with me or our family life. But it obviously did. Another of those lies she was telling herself

faithfulman I said in my earlier post that the last time she can have one is on Sunday. It shoud give us 5 days for her body to get rid of it. She voluntered all her remaining pills and I will have them on me since Sunday. I obviously can't tell how many she already took, so there is a possibility of having a blood test right before the test. She has no problem with that. There are no more prescription drugs and I highly doubt she could have an access to anything illegal. She knows that trying anything would be the last straw and I doubt she will try anything.

As for the reason why she didn't tell me - she felt ashamed because she felt like she is not the one who has a right to be crushed and depressed because all this is her doing thus all those emotions are well deserved and she should deal with it. But she started going downhill (I could see that) and it started affection her work performance (also true) and she could loose her job thus making her more dependant on me and it could make me feel like she did it on purpose to keep me. Stupid, but believeable

I also expected her to let out more new info but nothing yet. I gave her a few chances to come forward but she is adamant there is nothing to tell. Understandably, I don't believe her but she seems pretty calm about the poly. The only red flag I recognized was when she asked me what if she fails out of nervousness. I told her that's not possible, and we called the guy who said the same thing, but she wanted me to assure her I will let her take 1 or 2 more poly sessions with different companies.

I am reading on polygraph evasion techniques, don't worry about that. I know what I am against

The only expectation from the poly I have is a confirmation beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't have sex with him. And by sex I mean anything more than what she already told me about their meetings

Also, I met with my friends today. Had a few beers and learned all the new gossipe there is going around.

I also met the girl my friends are trying to set me up with. She knows my situation and I let her know that even though we are divorcing I feel like all this with my STBXW is not resolved and probably will not be in a foreseeable future. She was very nice about it, we spoke for an hour (or more like I rambled) and when I was leaving she asked for my number. I do not plan on taking this any further, but it was nice talking to her

She voluntered all her remaining pills and I will have them on me since Sunday. I obviously can't tell how many she already took, so there is a possibility of having a blood test right before the test.

I see you are doing whatever you can do. Those who are predisposed to honesty and loyalty are generally at a disadvantage to those who are predisposed to lying and manipulation.

I hate to be the guy who is always tossing cold water, but have a look around when you can to see if there are any hidden pills.

Having said that, they are only likely to have an affect if she takes them prior to the polygraph.

***

I also feel you on the emotions that bubbled up when you started writing the questions. It's like: "What the fuck is going on here? Why am I in the position of asking this shit?"

The whole business is sordid, disheartening, and totally avoidable and unnecessary.

I'm glad you met that woman but maintained your boundaries. If you move on from your wife, you will eventually be able to find a woman who truly values you.

Any possibility that your wife might learn of the conversation you had with that woman? She might lose it!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 2:05 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]

Her questions about getting back together are out of desperation and what I hope is love. I don't know if it's even possible but she told me multiple times during our talks that she never stopped loving me, not even during her A.

That's probably true. But here's the reality of the situation - her love did not include honesty. It did not include truth. It did not include authenticity. It did not include fidelity. It did not include respect. It did not include BEHAVING in a loving manner. So who cares if she loved you when her love did not include any of the things that you want from someone loving you? And what good does it do for her to love you now when her love for you still isn't enough for her to humble herself and be honest given she hid the xanax?

Look at your WW - does she look stupid to you? Does she generally lack the ability to follow basic concepts? Does she have an odd, skewed, or generally bizarre approach to simple and common social issues? Does she fail to think of basic consequences for her actions like putting things off that need to be taken care of or lacking social tact in sensitive situations? Maybe she IS that stupid but if you answered "no" to any of the questions above, she isn't stupid. She's selfish. She saw yet another opportunity to either be a little vulnerable with you even if it opens up the potential for something bad to happen OR lie to you and save herself. She chose the latter and she needs to own it. Not tell you ANOTHER lie/mischaracterization/minimization of the situation by saying she's too stupid to know the difference.

You better hope she's selfish and not stupid because she can fix selfish. She can't fix stupid.

Those who are predisposed to honesty and loyalty are generally at a disadvantage to those who are predisposed to lying and manipulation.

Wow, so true. I felt like I was pulling the shorter side of a rope, especially at the beginning.

I hate to be the guy who is always tossing cold water,

No, please be that guy. All of you shouldnbe that guy. I need to hear that, that's part of why I am here. Without you I would still be in a false R. I would mever know the truth

Any possibility that your wife might learn of the conversation you had with that woman? She might lose it!

She know my friend are trying to set me up with somebody. and she's definitely not happy about that. And nervous and obviously hurt. Many of my friends are (or were) her friends, too. But they want to have nothing to do with her now. I though about telling her she was there (i didn't know), but there is nothing to tell, really. But maybe I will, who knows.

I though about telling her she was there (i didn't know), but there is nothing to tell, really. But maybe I will, who knows.

This is one of those "gray zone" issues that many will disagree on...

I think at this point you don't need to tell her but you don't need to hide it either - you didn't do anything and you don't really owe her anything.

I think she will find out and it will be a big drama.

***

More interesting is how committed partners handle these types of situations in a faithful manner. Sometimes people try to make a play for a person who is already attached (Maybe the person making the play doesn't even know) and the committed person holds their boundaries one way or another, explicitly or by just shutting down the possibility of things going to far through their behavior.

Does that mean they have to run home and tell their spouse that somebody made an attempt? I don't think so, unless it was some wild incident.

***

Somebody above said your wife fell victim to a "Predator".

That's bullshit. He is an "Opportunist" guys like him are scavengers who make a play for every woman in sight. They have a good nose for the ones who might be open to further action - just like your wife was.

But by and large, it's a numbers game - they look for openings by making little suggestive comments and actions hundreds of times to woman after woman, and these Scavenger Opportunists get shut down 99 out of 100 times.

That's what I wish your wife had done.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 2:55 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]