SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ozzy, your wife just demonstrates that she's lacking accountability. Her losing attraction for you but never mentioning it and trying to work it out and just taking "refuge" in developing an EA and PA with her ex as a kind of replacement is questionable. So why didn't she mention it sooner and try to find a solution with you to get over this attraction issue? Is her reconnecting with her ex and developing emotional and physical attraction a result of your issues or is it the root of your issues or is it a catalyst? Only your wife knows what's going on inside of her and she never chose to include you to make it work.
What she gives you as a partner is just that she 'cares' for her roommate that's all. Is that enough yor you? You have to decide.

I could pick a part your latest response, but don't think that will be useful. So I'll ask again:

What advice are you looking for here? Do you want solutions? Do you want a sounding board?

I guess it is the love for someone who has looked after her, been with her through thick and thin, been a great dad to her kids etc. Difficult to just switch those feelings off when I am not an arsehole.

That's gratitude for services provided not love.

Ozzy, your wife just demonstrates that she's lacking accountability. Her losing attraction for you but never mentioning it and trying to work it out and just taking "refuge" in developing an EA and PA with her ex as a kind of replacement is questionable. So why didn't she mention it sooner and try to find a solution with you to get over this attraction issue? Is her reconnecting with her ex and developing emotional and physical attraction a result of your issues or is it the root of your issues or is it a catalyst? Only your wife knows what's going on inside of her and she never chose to include you to make it work.
What she gives you as a partner is just that she 'cares' for her roommate that's all. Is that enough for you? You have to decide.

I spent a while thinking it was the root, but now I think it is the result. Why she didn't bring things up sooner is anyone's guess. Having a partner who simply 'cares' for me is 100% not enough. And my feelings have deteriorated so much after the last few months that I don't know if I can come back from them either.

That's gratitude for services provided not love.

I do find myself questioning the whole relationship now... yes there was a at play, but there hasn't been that unconditional feeling coming from her that I have towards her for a long long time. I guess I just thought this is how relationships go over time, as I can only obviously see things through my own lens.

I could pick a part your latest response, but don't think that will be useful. So I'll ask again:

What advice are you looking for here? Do you want solutions? Do you want a sounding board?

It's a fair question. I guess what makes my situation unique compared with others is my inability to talk to friends about the ins and outs of everything that has gone on, so the support of friendly strangers on the internet has been really helpful.

I am definitely looking for suggestions as well - the problem is I feel it is her who needs the advice more than me. Please do pick apart my post though, I have said before that though it might seem like I am ignoring advice I am taking everything on board. I feel like we are rapidly heading towards a dead end though so decisions do need to be made.

Ozzy,

I guess what makes my situation unique...

The sooner you abandon the premise that your situation is "unique" the better.

Inevitably, through all your posts, all your updates, and all of the responses you've gotten, the summation of the naarrative is essentially identical to everyone elses. The minor differences you lean on so heavilly to justify disregarding much of the excellent advice proferred is not sufficient to make your story special.

Everyone here has seen this all before--- and can, will, and have already predicted what happens next in your story. Do you know why? Because your story, her story, your situation, reaction, and confusion isn't unique after all.

[This message edited by swoned at 5:19 PM, Monday, May 22nd]

but there hasn't been that unconditional feeling coming from her that I have towards her for a long long time. I guess I just thought this is how relationships go over time, as I can only obviously see things through my own lens.

Ah interesting. Until now, apart from her saying she is no longer physically attracted, you have given the impression it’s otherwise felt fine to you, but now you’re saying you’ve had a gut feeling of…. something. Are you able to say more? How does that something look day to day? How long is a long, long time?

Is she physically or verbally affectionate/ demonstrative with you? Or has there been some longer sense of a cooling off/ drifting apart? Does she actively seek to spend time/ talk/ have fun/ listen with you?

Given the honesty ethic she professes to propound, what does she say about lying (by omission) to you about the way she was feeling….as there could have been so many other ways to deal with this issue with someone you profess to ‘care’ about before presenting such a fait accompli and impasse.

Sex therapy is not just about sex btw.

[This message edited by Edie at 5:40 PM, Monday, May 22nd]

As I've said before, your main problem isn't that your wife has feelings for OM and no longer has attraction to you; your problem is that your wife doesn't respect you.

If she respected you, she wouldn't have entertained an emotional or physical relationship with her ex in the first place, let alone asked your blessing to sleep with him. She wouldn't humiliate you by flirting openly with OM while depriving you of intimacy. She wouldn't be shutting you down or dictating the terms for how your relationship should proceed from here.

Many have already argued that her loss of respect for you probably precipitated her lack of attraction to you, which I'm inclined to believe. Humans are attracted to things that perceive to be of value that they seek to obtain or want to keep for themselves. If your wife perceives you as being of lesser value than herself, then how could she desire you?

It might be possible for you to regain your wife's respect, but it won't happen while you continue to show such disrespect for yourself by tolerating the contempt she shows for you (such as telling you to the shut the fuck up, shutting down talk of her affair, etc), continually making excuses for her poor behavior, and allowing her to keep the door open for OM.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 9:45 PM, Monday, May 22nd]

The sooner you abandon the premise that your situation is "unique" the better.

Apologies, I meant purely in the fact that I imagine most people who post would have friends / family they confide in would they not? BTB asked why I post here, and I guess it is mostly for comfort from people who have been through similar. I would love to confide in friends / family but the fallout wouldn't be great (again thinking of the kids!)

What does everyone think will happen next?

Ah interesting. Until now, apart from her saying she is no longer physically attracted, you have given the impression it’s otherwise felt fine to you, but now you’re saying you’ve had a gut feeling of…. something. Are you able to say more? How does that something look day to day? How long is a long, long time?

Is she physically or verbally affectionate/ demonstrative with you? Or has there been some longer sense of a cooling off/ drifting apart? Does she actively seek to spend time/ talk/ have fun/ listen with you?

It is just an inkling based on recent events. When I think back there perhaps just wasn't the unconditional "do things for your other half even if they have no benefit to you" aspect. Stupid little things like me taking her cups of tea without asking, a head massage while on the couch.... not a lot in return though. Possibly over thinking it because of the current situation which I am sure is not unusual.

As I've said before, your main problem isn't that your wife has feelings for OM and no longer has attraction to you; your problem is that your wife doesn't respect you.

If she respected you, she wouldn't have entertained an emotional or physical relationship with her ex in the first place, let alone asked your blessing to sleep with him. She wouldn't humiliate you by flirting openly with OM while depriving you of intimacy. She wouldn't be shutting you down or dictating the terms for how your relationship should proceed from here.

Many have already argued that her loss of respect for you probably precipitated her lack of attraction to you, which I'm inclined to believe. Humans are attracted to things that perceive to be of value that they seek to obtain or want to keep for themselves. If your wife perceives you as being of lesser value than herself, then how could she desire you?

It might be possible for you to regain your wife's respect, but it won't happen while you continue to show such disrespect for yourself by tolerating the contempt she shows for you (such as telling you to the shut the fuck up, shutting down talk of her affair, etc), continually making excuses for her poor behavior, and allowing her to keep the door open for OM.

Yep, nail on head I think. As much as this website is all about infidelity, I think we probably just have a relationship which has run its course sadly. Would still love to be wrong about this and for things to turn around but it seems more and more unlikely...

Her contempt seems a significant and corrosive component of the dynamic, whether overt or covert. Have a look at the Gottman’s work on contempt in marriage. As well as their four horsemen.

As for the relationship having run its course, it’s possible, but too early to say. There’s a lot of exploratory work learning more about yourselves and each other yet to be done, don’t walk the plank just yet. You’re both in IC so the process has begun, although I’m worrying whether her IC is just validating her thoughts without challenging them. Given the dynamic you’ve described, it might be that MC can help mediate that in discussions, but you need more IC for now. iMHO of course.

I imagine most people who post would have friends / family they confide in would they not? BTB asked why I post here, and I guess it is mostly for comfort from people who have been through similar. I would love to confide in friends / family but the fallout wouldn't be great (again thinking of the kids!)

Edited to challenge the assumptions implicit above that you can’t speak to anyone irl or that others here have confidantes irl and aren’t also protecting kids. Sounds like your wife has anyway already begun the process of discussing your relationship with friends and her parents but again is that also a case of only her way or the highway?

So the only difference I can see in what you describe as a unique situation is your WW uses your (coerced) licence to her affair as not only her get out of jail free card but also a stick to beat you with, but otherwise there are completely comparable infidelity factors to many here: a cake-eating WS who gaslights, stonewalls and deflects blame and accountability to her spouse citing unmet needs and is refusing to go NC. So far it does not necessarily denote an exit affair. But I shuddered when you described her openly texting OM in front of you and the brazen lack of care and respect such an act denotes, as she seems to rely on you not heading off or giving consequences.

[This message edited by Edie at 2:50 PM, Tuesday, May 23rd]

Apologies, I meant purely in the fact that I imagine most people who post would have friends / family they confide in would they not? BTB asked why I post here, and I guess it is mostly for comfort from people who have been through similar. I would love to confide in friends / family but the fallout wouldn't be great (again thinking of the kids!)

What does everyone think will happen next?

Ozzy, there's a great quote from the Great Gatsby that might resonate..

"There's a loneliness that only exists in one's mind. The loneliest moment in someone's life is when they are watching their whole world fall apart, and all they can do is stare blankly."

You might think that most people have friends/family to turn to, but I would passionately argue that it's likely farthest from the truth. In fact, the majority of us probably never felt more alone and unsure who to confide in. It's very difficult to tell even those you trust how you've been betrayed-- wether out of fear, shame, embarassment, desire to protect kids, whatever the reason is.

I think the vast majority of us did not know who to turn to... and more importantly, i would also argue that anyone that has not experienced infidelity themselves, likely make terrible confidants. They will likely give bad advice, which only exacerbates, prolongs, and excuses the behavior.

As for what does everyone think will happen next? Nothing will change in your situation... or, I should say, nothing is going to improve. Because you're not willing to do what is necessary to extricate yourself from this yet. You're making slow progress towards realizing why you're stuck, but it's going to take you forever to get out of this wether you R or D, and it's going to be long and painful.

And it all really comes down to one thing. Your absolute refusal to tell OBS. This is likely the one most decisive decision you can take, right now, to provide a catalyst that may extricate you from the current shit situation you're enduring.

I want to add,

you keep going back to statements that you're doing what you're doing "for the sake of the kids"

This is counterproductive, and it's not in reality the noble and heroic sacrifice that you think it is.

You need to take care of yourself, first, for the sake of the kids.

Your number one priority is to get out of infidelity, and that means you should be willing to do absolutely whatever it takes to get rid of it, even if it means D. D or R are equally infinitely better than limbo.

I think you should have a conversation about whether or not your relationship has run its course. I think you should be the one to push this idea and keep pushing it. Sighting loss of attraction, wanting sex and more with ex and treating you with little respect since her affair. Let her know you are losing attraction for her since this has happened. Lay it out there as honestly as you can. Talk about what divorce would look like. Somewhere in this talk mention that you don’t want to be married to someone who doesn’t find you attractive. Be as honest with her as she claims she is with you. See where the chips fall. What is there to loose at this point.

She refuses to go no contact so I think that says all you need to know. So much for that one last hurrah/meeting to end things, huh?

Pretty sure many of us here predicted that too.

Refuses to delete him off of Facebook….wow…priorities, I guess…all in the best interest of the kids and the marriage, right there. That’s seriously mind boggling.

At what point do you finally have enough?

I guess at this point just keep doing what you’re doing…which is whatever she tells you you’re supposed to do, since standing up for yourself or doing ‘the right thing’ is out of the question.

You keep saying, ‘she won’t change her mindset’. Have you looked in the mirror?

What does everyone think will happen next?

She's going to restart the affair. Or,you will discover it never really ended.

You refuse to do the one thing that could break her fog,and save this.

You continue to say it's all for the kids. Where was that mantra when she asked to become another man's side piece, and you said yes? A man who was very honest,and made it clear she would never be more than a side piece. How was "allowing" your kid's mom to disrespect herself..for the kids? How was telling her it was ok to "escape," for the kids?

I think its time you were honest. If not with us, then at least with yourself.

You are operating on fear. You won't do anything that comes close to respecting yourself, because you may upset her. And you won't tell his wife,because it will make your wife angry that you've caused stress for her boyfriend, and also because of the role YOU played in that woman's pain. You don't want to take that responsibility..which is also why your wife isn't as well.

But it's not for the kids. It's fear. And lack of accountability. On both of your parts.

Or she finds someone else to monkey branch to, after making you believe things are, if not good, status quo. You will be blind-sided even though everyone told you that if you don't take control of the situation, the situation will control you.

We do not take any pleasure in watching this happen, which is why we keep telling you to get yourself out of infidelity. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I agree with hellfire. You are operating out of fear. Not that most BS don’t do the same but your dogged determination to keep your wife on a weird pedestal and yourself as her underling is outside of my experience. Every time I think you’re coming to your senses, you slide back a rung or two.
If you will not have an honest conversation with her as I discussed in an earlier post, get away from and think about what you want and need. Figure out if you can get that with her. That will require distance from her. Take a vacation for a week just by yourself and think. This may give you clarity.

I was with a man for 6 years, engaged for 5, and of those 6 I lost my attraction to him after 2 years. I stayed with him because it was easier and convenient as a single mom. He had plenty of flaws and was very difficult to live with, I didn't just lose attraction for no reason.

One day I had enough of pretending and of him and that was it. I told him it was time to move on without each other.

I get your situation is not the same at all to mine but if your wife lost attraction and respect and is not doing much to try and figure out why your marriage is doomed.

Your wife wanted her happy life with you but her fun on the side and you ruined it. It will never be the same and her actions after things blew up have been awful.

I don't see much hope for you two and I try to always see the positive. The only positive in your situation is she told you she was going to sleep with someone else, otherwise everything else has been getting worse and worse.

Once you accept your situation as the basics of what it is, wife doesn't like you it seems, then it might get easier.

D or R are equally infinitely better than limbo.

Agree wholeheartedly. I don't think limbo is going to last much longer somehow.

I think you should have a conversation about whether or not your relationship has run its course. I think you should be the one to push this idea and keep pushing it. Sighting loss of attraction, wanting sex and more with ex and treating you with little respect since her affair. Let her know you are losing attraction for her since this has happened. Lay it out there as honestly as you can. Talk about what divorce would look like. Somewhere in this talk mention that you don’t want to be married to someone who doesn’t find you attractive. Be as honest with her as she claims she is with you. See where the chips fall. What is there to loose at this point.

I have already done this. There isn't anything there. The feelings are just gone. It has only been 4 months since the first chat though, I would be interested how long it took everyone else to figure out their shit? I didn't realise there was a rulebook, and I don't really care if there is to be frank. I am sorting stuff out in my head, and am getting closer to the point of no return. When I say "I am doing it for the kids" I don't mean I am going to suffer for eternity for the kids, just I won't make the life changing decisions which await without being 100% sure.

Refuses to delete him off of Facebook….wow…priorities, I guess…all in the best interest of the kids and the marriage, right there. That’s seriously mind boggling.

This bit does really boggle my mind too. Not just that she hasn't done it, but that she doesn't think in her version of reality that this counts as contact (I know!) I think we have MC sorted for very soon so this is the kind of stuff I will bring up when there is a mediator.

@Dennylast what specifically did you mean with this?

Every time I think you’re coming to your senses, you slide back a rung or two.

Maybe I am not listing all of my thought processes but I am at about 90% now that we are done. It has only been increasing so I can't think of when I have slid back.

Your wife wanted her happy life with you but her fun on the side and you ruined it. It will never be the same and her actions after things blew up have been awful.

I don't see much hope for you two and I try to always see the positive. The only positive in your situation is she told you she was going to sleep with someone else, otherwise everything else has been getting worse and worse.

Once you accept your situation as the basics of what it is, wife doesn't like you it seems, then it might get easier.

Again, I am accepting this more and more. And like I said, I don't know what the timeframe is meant to be but 4 months on I am almost there.

@hellfire, with respect I won't be telling the OBS at this point. That doesn't mean I won't at some point in the future, but right now I won't be. I wish this wasn't so triggering for you.

@hellfire, with respect I won't be telling the OBS at this point. That doesn't mean I won't at some point in the future, but right now I won't be. I wish this wasn't so triggering for you.

It is very triggering for me also. In my own personal situation I am glad as hell that my buddies wrote me telling me that my fiancee was cheating on me. We were set to marry when my overseas tour of duty was over and I was to return to the states. If they hadn't informed me then I would have ended up marrying a lying cheater. Instead they saved me that headache. Instead I eventually married my wonderful wife of now 62 years and counting.

I don't intend to beat a dead horse, but not only your wife and the OBS's husband are cheating on her, but you are enabling this crap show.

Suppose you were working for an employer in a job you felt good about and where you wanted to work for the rest of your life. Suppose you found out that a fellow employee was embezzling that employer and if it continued it would end up financially crippling your employer's company. Wouldn't you feel some sort of obligation to tell your employer what was happening? I suppose most people with a sense of integrity would tell the employer, either directly or indirectly, depending on the circumstances. I know I would and I think most of here on this site would.

Let's be clear. I am appalled
by the fact you won't tell his wife. You both have shown no regard for her at all. Your wife is one thing. Most OW don't give a shit about the wife. But..you..to have given permission for your wife to help destroy a marriage..and then come to this site,and read how infidelity affects people, and continue to refuse to tell his wife, in order to protect your wife,and yourself..shows a shocking lack of empathy. Granted,there are situations, very few,in which there are valid reasons not to tell. You have none of them.

Also..I am BY FAR not the only person here who tells you, continously, that telling his wife is the best thing to do..for her..AND YOUR MARRIAGE. Yet, you like to single me out. Odd.

My dday was nearly 15 years ago. He confessed. I told the OBS 3 days later. Best move I could have made. For a plethora of reasons. Was it hard? Yes. But it was the kind,decent, smart thing to do.

You're here,on an infidelity site,not a BS because you gave permission for all of it, and seem irritated that people who have been betrayed,want you to tell his wife. At one point,we were all in her situation. You haven't been,so I guess you don't get it.

There's more I could say, but I deleted those comments/observations. I value my membership here.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:30 PM, Thursday, May 25th]