SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We can all debate the definition of sex, but if your husband does not consider oral sex or masturbation as sex (if that happened), then as long as you were 100% upfront, then what HE considers as sex is all that counts.

Unfortunately that 1 time that you did have sex is enough for him.

I think you need to seriously consider life after divorce.

I have no idea what people read on his thread but to me, there is no rollercoaster. He is going to divorce you.

And quite honestly would you rather him stay in a marriage that was filled with resentment and self hatred or would you rather pay the price and work to earn a tomorrow with a promise of peace and showing value to each other even if it takes 2-5 years. What hapoens after divorce is not yet written. You do have 50% control of that.

I don't believe in false hope, whether it is a wish that things might not happen or that you may one day remarry and live happily ever after. But if I were to guess, you have a better chance at staying together after divorce then staying married.

You have a lot of work to do and fighting stupid battles on a forum about the definition of sex is not one of them

The reason you receive oositive feedback from a lot of BS in this forum is because you have been consistent from day 1. Your thread was always been open to BS and you have taken a few 2x4 from both sides, yet here you stand.

You said you would do the 3-5 years even if you divorced. Take the damn polygraph now answer the hidden questions and start the time today. Remain consistent even if you fall on black days.

He will probably divorce you but he will wait and watch you. There is way to much love there. Stay consistent, build value and work to restore the faith. The time will come when he will want to talk. Be ready when that moment comes.

[This message edited by 66charger at 12:58 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

When you are in an affair you feel like you are in a real relationship. Especially if it went on for months. You share your life. The person is your friend. Of course you talk about your life and your kids, you are finding a connection. It's natural to share photos. I did the same thing as did my AP. And anyone can look on Facebook and see photos. I'm not understanding why people are making such a huge deal, it's part of building the fantasy. In an affair you trust your AP, you aren't looking at it clearly.

Apologies for a threadjack, but the lack of understanding about what a grotesque and hugely significant action the sharing of pictures of children with affair partners is indicates a very wayward mind-set.

How is it 'natural' to want your affair partner to look at the children of the person you are betraying?

And how can a person look at pictures of children from a family that they are actively attacking and ruining and be fine with it?

It is one thing for an adult to take pictures and video of themselves and send them to an affair partner; they are a consenting adult. But sharing pictures of children makes them and their lives a part of the affair, and shares their images with a predator who is actively damaging their family and humiliating their betrayed parent without their consent.

That is a gross betrayal of those children.

They trust trust their parents to protect them, not use them as handy tools for bonding with an affair partner.

If it is all so 'natural' and harmless, have you told your children you happily shared pictures of them with the man you were betraying their Dad with, without their consent? Do you think they wanted that man - of all the men in the world - to be looking at images of them and their lives?

Your children had no say in the way their lives, their actions, and their right to privacy were laid open to your affair partner.

Do you think your children would be comfortable with what you did, and think it was 'natural' for their mother to do that to them, and use them accessories in her betrayal of their father? If a parent of mine had shared pictures of me and moments in my life with an affair partner, I would be horrified by that breach of trust and my privacy. What right does an affair partner have for my life and my secrets to be laid bare to them without my consent?

Does your husband know you were showing pictures of his children to your affair partner as a means of strengthening your bond with him?

You chose to have an affair with your 'friend'; your husband and children did not. What right did you have to share images and intimate details of their lives with him?

Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to share images and information about children with sexual predators? No matter how 'friendly' they may be? Pedophiles work by building up trust so they can have access to children. How do you know with 100% certainty that the kind of men who want to look at pictures of your children are 'safe' to share those pictures with?

I find it extremely disturbing that adults can use their children to strengthen their affair and then minimize the significance of those actions afterwards. That thinking has to be challenged if this forum is going to serve a purpose in helping people get out of that mind-set, and see it for what it is.

And the safety and protection of children from sexual predators is never, ever not a big deal. Exposing children and their lives to 'friendly' strangers can have truly horrific consequences.

[This message edited by M1965 at 11:11 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

I should have say "in the wayward mindset." I was replying quickly. My point was there is no thought process going on like oh, this is wrong, obviously if you are engaging in an affair you aren't considering the feelings of your spouse and children. I shared pics with my AP because we were FB friends. My point was it FEELS normal while your doing it, it doesn't feel like a betrayal, because again, it's part of the fantasy. Obviously I see all of that now and I'm sure LD does as well. Nothing about an affair is natural and normal. Didn't mean to stir up feelings. As for children giving consent, I put their photos on FB (and still do). I have never asked for consent. I'm their legal guardian until age 18. And yes my husband knows everything about my Affair. APs wife told my husband " you have beautiful children" because she looked me up on FB after the affair ended (just like many people here do).

I was just trying to let LD know that sharing pics and your life with AP is unfortunately a mistake a lot of us make. I never thought it was wrong because I wanted to share myself with him. It's a huge betrayal. I always say I consider myself a good mom. But my decisions during that time almost ruined my children's whole world. I don't even recognize myself. I'm sure you are feeling the same. I just wanted you to know you aren't alone.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 6:50 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

Duplicate

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 6:40 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

Pink,

Thank you for your response. Having written that post, I should say that I appreciate how honest you are about the wayward state of mind, and that I also know that if a bear broke into your house, both you and LifeDestroyer would lay down your lives fighting to protect your kids.

The trouble is, some 'bears' come in disguise.

The reason that scenario has such strong resonance for me is that I worked with a man whose wife had an affair with a man who used the affair to masquerade as a family friend and gain access to the children.

When the whole thing came out, the husband had to deal with not just an affair, but the damage done to his children too. He blamed himself for failing to protect them, and had what I guess was a nervous breakdown. His brother received a short jail term for attempting to kill the affair partner. The wife attempted suicide twice. The kids had therapy, and one seemed to be okay, but one went off the rails a bit, and had a lot of unfocused anger issues.

It is the worst thing another person has ever told me, and the poor guy often seemed to be lost in a world of his own.

The affair partner in that case had taken an active interest in the wife's kids in a way that she mistook for a sign of what a lovely, caring man he was. After it all came out, she told her husband that she thought her AP would have made a wonderful father, because he seemed so attentive to the kids, and had been so keen to see pictures and know what they were doing.

That is why this subject hits such a raw nerve with me.

This was not meant as a criticism of you, Pink, or you, LD. I want to repeat that I know you would protect your kids with your lives if you knew they were in danger. What I wrote here was written to emphasize how dangers can come in disguise, or not be recognized, until it is too late.

I frequently worry about how much people share about not just themselves but also their loved ones on social media. I really want to urge everyone to reconsider what they are putting out there, and who may be seeing it.

That's a lot of backtracking, pink. That is not what you said. You said you didn't understand why we, the betrayed spouses, are making a big deal,NOW, out of a WS sharing pics, and time with the COM with the AP. And to equate it to a BS checking out the OW's public Facebook profile is utterly ridiculous.

You have consistently complained that your husband is still angry. A BS's anger rapidly diminishes when their WS gets it. And, when you make comments like these, it's clear you don't get it. I think you are trying. I believe you are remorseful. But you need to work on your insight and empathy.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:39 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

You dont understand why people are making a big deal?

You have a very long road ahead. Holy shit!!!!

I cant. I just honestly cant.

I was replying quickly before I fell asleep. Didn't realize I had to drudge up my armor and say all the right things first. Of course I have to back track so it's clear. I was referring to why it's become a big deal on this thread. It seemed like people were latching on to that. People just get in a frenzy over everything. I get it but I feel like there a much bigger issues to deal with than sharing a picture. But as always people pick apart everything, project their own problems and make assumptions. Never fails.

Hellfire- I really lack empathy here. I just can't stand all the anger and hate and spewing that goes on. And the projection. I need to just stay clear. My husband tells me to stay off this site completely, he doesn't like it. And yes he is still angry I had sex with another man and led a double life. It's incredibly hurt and sad. It's still a day to day thing but it's 100x better than it was. I don't blame him for being angry.

In this instance people are reading and posting on both threads and poking at things on each side (the picture issue) . I don't think that's fair for LD to deal with since she's not privy to what her husband is saying and vice versa.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 9:21 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

A heartfelt post M1965. I can feel your words.

People are talking about why a BS would have issues with pics of their kids being shared with an AP, because the OP was upset that her BS said he wasn't going to share pics of this child with her right now. We were simply trying to explain hi his POV, for their perspective.

Not everything that is said here is projection. I'm reconciled. Happily. Giving the BS perspective doesn't equate to projection .

Words matter. That's why people nitpick, as you call it. All we have to go on here are th things we type.

I'm sorry that the trauma, the soul shattering pain here irritates you. I'm sorry that you lack empathy for people who were abused.

People get in a frenzy over everything? Sharing your children of the marriage with an AP is a huge betrayal. Maybe more so than fucking another person.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:24 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

Sharing your children of the marriage with an AP is a huge betrayal.

Not to harp on this, but yeah, as a BS I have to agree with this, and it's one of the questions I've asked my WH more than once. The AP did see pictures of our son on FB because they were openly friends on there while screwing around behind my back. That's hard enough, but the thought of him sending her pictures of our son via text/email just makes my blood boil. It's bad enough he shared his birth day, illnesses, etc., like they were just old friends catching up. Nothing to it.

He did share pictures of my stepchildren with her which they would be furious about if they knew, but so far no proof of pictures of our son.

Words matter.

Yep.

[This message edited by landclark at 9:48 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

I'm not going to thread jack her topic. I think LD gets it was wrong to share, wrong to have an affair, wrong for all of it, but how can we help her get through it. I only post in Wayward because I'm supporting wayward. I live the trauma of infidelity every day. I cannot move forward trying to justify myself and my every action to all BS on this site. That's what I lack empathy for. I get it feels good to lash out at us. Don't think we don't feel pain and regret every awful selfish choice, that we don't wish to take it back and make the pain stop. We live with the facts of what we did, we can't stand ourselves. We are aware we discarded our families and spouses for instant gratification. I don't think any wayward hoping for true reconciliation is happy with themselves. It takes a lot of digging to get there, to get better. At 2.5 years out I'm still working on making myself happy and not gratification from others. We hurt because of the pain we caused. We made awful choices and we live with the consequences. I'm here to help LD see there is a path forward and she can come out of it. An affair is a series of disgusting choices. From the sex, to sharing our lives, to the lies. There isn't any thing good there. We understand that. I'm here to show her we can put our lives back together. It's one step at a time and a very bumpy path but it's time to get your life back, because we already let the affair steal enough of it. Take your life back.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:14 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

I am posting on this thread to help LD. To help her better understand her husband's emotions and reaction. And,as I said earlier, when explaining why her husband didn't feel safe sharing pics with her, my intent wasn't to shame her. Explaining a BS perspective doesn't automatically equate to projection, shaking, or lashing out.

I believe her to be remorseful. I think she is one of the few remorseful waywards here.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:33 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

Words matter.

I think this is the thing. Whether we are tired or whatever, words matter..... a lot.

A WS sharing the BS' life and their kids' lives with an AP, and further opening the door (or rather stealing it) by friending an AP on SM is another giant betrayal, albeit in a very long list of betrayals that go into an A. My WH gave me -nearly verbatim - the same perspective pink shared (while tired). He also said the same thing about some of their sexual activities, and he even said it about the lies and deceit (because that is "part" of having an A, so a BS shouldn't be so shocked and hurt about it).

Bottom line is that, tired or not, this is minimizing both the WS' behavior AND the BS' response to it. Because it IS a BIG deal to a betrayed, even if it's "on top of" all the other willfully ignorant actions a WS makes in having an A - that significantly harm a BS. It just is. Words matter.

LD - You really seem to be working hard at changing some mindset, and I give you kudos for that. I unfriended my WH on dday. From my perspective as a BS, he stopped being my "friend" the minute he started down the slippery slope. I know that hurts him. It's not about hurting or punishing him - it's about self preservation by not sharing my life with someone who has not earned that right (or threw it away). If he wants to be "refriended", he will have to earn the basic level of trust needed for any friendship.

ETA: TBH, that original language posted seems to directly contradict the "we understand that" an affair is a series of disgusting choices. From the sex, to sharing our lives, to the lies. Because understanding/having empathy for the harm caused by those choices would not entail saying: "I'm not understanding why people are making such a huge deal".

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:30 AM, September 6th, 2019 (Friday)]

We can all debate the definition of sex, but if your husband does not consider oral sex or masturbation as sex (if that happened), then as long as you were 100% upfront, then what HE considers as sex is all that counts.

Was what I did sexual acts? Absolutely. If my BS tells me that he considers fondling to be sex, then I will say it was sex. I was not calling it that because he did not call it that. He just called the intercourse as sex. I am not trying to minimize anything I have done. I am just explaining it.

I never posted a stop sign here because I wanted comments from both sides. Everyone is all in different stages, and you all have experienced so many different things. I realize there are people commenting on both threads. I have told my BS that he can read my thread if he ever wanted to. I'm not going to say different things here that I'm not saying to him.

LD.....I will offer you this...

The reason we challenge words is because you spoke all the wrong words to your self in order to get here. Whether that conversation with your AP or conversation with your self. Words matter because they dictate thought and thought dictate actions.

GMC - just like LD said, sometimes you just post a quick response. I see and understand the sharing is a dig deal my response was people were really invested in it in this thread. Not every post can be long and carefully crafted to not step on anyone's toes. I respond how I feel, I don't reply to be complacent and satisfy everyone. I wasn't going to go into the long response last night, I was trying to say that that's part of an affair, it's the ugly truth. Ive always posted honestly and bluntly on SI. Part of the affair is sharing. It's unfortunate, it's hurtful, but I (and probably LD) looked at their affair as a REAL relationship so it didn't seem out of bounds. We shared all of ourselves which included our families. In that time period I shared more with my AP than I did my husband. I opened myself up to him completely. That's also part of it, distancing yourself from your spouse to justify your actions. Again, affairs are series of really bad choices. LD is seeing that now as well. It's a chain reaction. Now it's just the start of rebuilding and facing the consequences.

Was the "words matter" post directed at me? I thought it was to Pinks comment. It's all getting confusing.

LD...it was for you.

The words you spoke to your self when you saw the picture your BS didn't share with you were toxic and detrimental to not only his healing but yours

Words matter and the ones that matter most are the ones you say to yourself.