SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The fact you felt bad for checking her phone, as if you did something wrong blows my mind

You know what, after how the confrontation went and knowing she is lying to my face when I know otherwise, I actually no longer feel bad in the slightest. I've realised that I did what I needed to do to uncover a secret that ultimately may break our marriage.
Hearing her lie to my face outright has justified so much to me. I actually can't comprehend how she can do it and feel no remorse.

Whilst I was initially reluctant to show her screenshots of her email showing the Uber location, I may pull that in the future if reconciliation looks unlikely. Just to let her know that I knew.

CandidAd

You are doing BETTER!!

Glad to see you taking charge of sorting out your situation.

How are your children doing? And Family and Friends?

Note in the coming storm you will find out which friends are real friends.

Best do what you can to lock down finances and get to a solicitor to learn what is possible outcome

depending on what happens in the future.

Try and find someone you trust to talk over your path - talking helps the brain work better. Writing also helps - if you keep a journal - even better.

Might consider informing your employer of the "domestic intranquility" - they may have some way of providing you with moral assistance. In USA - there is "EAP" which is "Employer Assistance Programs" which often include Individual Counseling with someone who specializes in what is going on with your current situation.

You're doing good now - keep it up!

Also - suggest you read post in Reconciliation by Uxoragain

Also #2: May help you if you allow "Private Messages"

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 12:43 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Thank you :) It feels like such a weight off my shoulders to get it out. I’ve already confided with my Mother as it looks as if I’ll be staying there for a bit, and just arranged to meet up with a close friend this week. Time to take care of myself and my children.

As yet, the kids don’t know. We’re going to talk tomorrow to discuss how we proceed from here so I’ll keep you all updated.

I also have a counselling session booked next week via our EAP so hopefully I’m on a good path to move forward. I can’t deny I’m anxious about the unknown future, however I feel good for standing up for myself and calling out her lies.

Our finances are well split generally so we should be good. I just pay into a bills account so will maintain doing so for now.

I will check the post thanks, and also just enabled private messages!

Thanks all for the support, you have no idea how much courage it has given me. For now, I must try and sleep as it’s late here!

Sorry you are here but you are taking positive steps.

Your WW has told you where you stand with her. Believe her. You are not a perfect spouse. Neither is your WW. There is never an excuse for cheating. Right now take care of you and your children. Be civil and firm. Do not argue or engage with her. It will get you nowhere.

Always value yourself. Do not accept blame or poor treatment. Demonstrate strength and resolve. Always value yourself. See an attorney to learn your rights and begin the D process. If she shows herself worthy at a future time you can always stop the process. If she can not be the faithful W you deserve, keep moving forward. Good luck.

You know what, after how the confrontation went and knowing she is lying to my face when I know otherwise, I actually no longer feel bad in the slightest.

Good!

I don't know if anyone else said it, but you know she's lying, she's probably lying about EVERYTHING. Like don't believe anything she says. It sounds like she's just a typical branch swinger and is preparing to trade you in for another model.

From what you write it seems like you're the only one thinking about the family and the kids. You don't need to figure out a way to tell the kids with her. You can just tell them whatever you think you should. You don't need to sleep on the couch, or move out, or anything she says. Put your kids first, yourself second, and forget about anything she thinks until she wakes up or the marriage is dissolved. Get a lawyers advice on moving out before you do it.

Do your best to detach as much as possible and see her for who she is now and not who you thought she was. Maybe she would prefer to move out and live with her new boyfriend. Are you watching the kids for night over trip? If so, why? Maybe you should have plans of your own. Obviously I'm not suggesting you leave your kids alone, I'm just saying you shouldn't be babysitting for her dates. She's not acting like a wife, no need for you to be her husband. If there is a chance of waking her up its reminding her of what she's losing. Although as time goes by you might start to wonder why you'd want her back.

Forget the screenshots or trying to prove to her you know she's lying. You know it and that's enough.

I am catching up on this thread and I can see that you have confronted her - I would also struggle not to so I can understand that. My thoughts on getting to the truth may still apply even now if you need further proof or if you attempt R but still have doubts and can't go down the PI route (I am also in the UK) - I would either say an unnamed friend or workmate had innocently mentioned that they had seen her with someone or maybe just in a place that wasn't where she said she was and does she want to explain that? Or you could just turn up at the place she says she is going to and find that (surprise!) she isn't there.

I agree with the other though that she is cheating. All the signs are there.

Well done for acting quickly. Whether or not she already has done something, you can begin the journey of working out what you are going to do quickly. I wish I had found this site earlier.

Thanks again for all the support and words of encouragement.

Last night I took a screenshot of her Snapchat profile. Not sure how many know Snapchat, but you are given a Snap score which rises every time you send or receive a picture. She also get's notified of when someone screenshots so she asked me why I did it this morning. When I originally found out about them talking, she told me she had sent one picture of herself to him and regretted it and never sent anymore. Since they started talking on Snapchat, her score rose from 14, to 98. I asked if she sent anymore and she denied it, but told me that she can't control what he sends to her. To which my response was of course you can! You tell him to stop, or break communication. I really don't think she understands how her even having a conversation with him makes me feel, let alone knowing there are pictures involved that I can't see and get automatically deleted after 24 hours. I hate the idea of Snapchat as a platform, it really does sound like a cheaters paradise.

She tried to tell me that it was my fault for ignoring her over the years to which I responded that I know I did, and I was working hard to change myself and fix are marriage until she chose to lie to me about these communications twice. That part of our problem was down to me, yes. But her actions after that are on her. I brought up the lie about her location to which she still maintains she went to the casino to meet her friends later on (despite me having proof otherwise that she doesn't know about) and I tried to make her understand why I would be upset about her lying over something so trivial (If she had actually genuinely decided to go meet her friends that is - it wouldn't have been an issue for me). The fact that she lied, made it look like there was something going on, or she was hiding something. She still claims she lied because she thought I would be funny about it despite never having an issue with her going out in 13 years.

She instantly tried to turn it all back on me, claiming that I was dismissing her feelings blah blah. She ended the conversation asking me to leave the room, and I told her I can't live with a liar.

I'm still feeling remarkably upbeat right now. The anxiety seems to have stopped, and I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Talking through the whole story both here, and to my Mum has kind of put things into more perspective and made me see the bigger picture. It seemed easy to ignore all the little signs as they happened day to day, but once I'd pieced it together and actually talked to someone about it, I realise just how suspicious it all looks.

I'm unsure now how I feel about her going forward. Yesterday I would have swore that i'd fight hard for R, but today I'm sure. I almost feel like the onus is on her. I can fight for something if she doesn't want it. The 180 suddenly makes a lot of sense - look after myself, and if she wants to fight i'm sure she'll let me know.

Time to drag myself into work in the meantime!

[This message edited by CandidAd at 8:58 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Brother, you handled it very well. Kudos to you. You didn't allow her to gaslight and blame you. When she realized she is absolutely cornered she asked you to leave the room. Predictable! Now, you should implement 180. Yesterday was your dday. But, before implementing dday you should tell her something like this:

"Wife. I always envisioned a life with you. Your lies and deception has struck at the very base of what I expected and made me question what I want. I truly want for us to move on and reconcile, but I have also realized a couple of things:

There are behaviors and actions I need to change, but NONE OF THEM in any way or form justify or minimize your DECISSION to act in a very deceptive way. If you aren’t happy with me you can talk to me about it, and if I don’t change you can divorce. Deciding to act deceptive and torment me is totally not acceptable. I acknowledge my share in the marital issues but refuse to accept an iota of blame for your decision to have an affair.

Although I always envisioned you as my wife and am willing to work towards reconciliation I have had an epiphany: Not having you as my wife is not the worst outcome of this situation. The WORST outcome would be to think you are my wife, but in reality be sharing you with someone else. I don’t share my wife. I would rather not have you as my wife than discover I’m sharing you. Divorce is the lesser of two evils if you aren’t willing to be in a monogamous relationship with me.

There is nothing wrong in you not wanting to be married to me. If you aren’t willing to commit to monogamy then it’s totally fine that we divorce. It’s not what I want – but this marriage has to be what BOTH of us want."

(This is Bigger's post. I have made some changes to fit the given context here)

After telling this piece to her start implementing 180. Remember, 180 is not to win your partner back. It is meant to detach yourself from your partner emotionally and physically to reach a point of clarity where you can make a sound decision for your future. Also, consult a lawyer.

If she express her intent to save this marriage then she must agree for complete transparency and honesty. No trickle truth. Complete access to her electronic devices and social media accounts. She must take polygraph. She must go to IC. These are basic requirements to start the process of reconciliation.

Edit: I would still advise you to use VAR.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 12:23 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Before you leave the house check with a lawyer to make sure that will not hurt you as it pertains to child custody.
Ok, everything she has said is classic cheater speak. She is seeing someone else. Now you have to look after yourself and your children. Talk to lawyer to understand what your future will look like without her. She will act one of two ways once she understands you will not put up with her behavior. She will either go towards divorce as fast as she can so she can start her new life with her AP or she will see what she may loose if she continues down this path. Both choices are hers to make. You have no say in her decision. For yourself however, you can move with determination to end living in infidelity. You do that for yourself because you as a person is worth more. It is also true often times that when the WS sees their partner being decisive in eliminating infidelity, it brings them out of their foggy thinking and they realize what they are doing. This site has advised many to do just what I am telling you. I can’t tell you how many people who didn’t listen to this advise and continued their own path has reported back later that they wished they had listened. On the other hand I have not seen one person who did follow our advise say they wished they had just ignored us.

@Lurkingsoul12 - This is amazing, thank you to you and to Bigger.

I'm going to make some changes - I'm not sure at this stage that I want to be accusing her outright of an affair as I still have no actual proof of it, but I will be focusing heavily on the fact that lies and deception have weighed heavily on me and my actions and made me believe that something could have been going on. That I am justified in my feelings, and that she should be able to accept and understand how that would make me feel.
I feel that alone is grounds enough for me to justify my feelings as secrets and lies are not valid in a healthy relationship.

I will also make it clear at the end that I don't want to argue, or create a discussion back and forth at this moment, rather I just want to convey how I feel right now and then leave it there. Making it clear that all communication from this point will be related to family matters only until she is ready to approach me to have a conversation about our future.

We'll see how it goes, but thank you your support. If she does decide she wants to pursue things, I'll most certainly be asking for advice again on how to proceed!

@Dennylast - Thanks for your advice and support. I agree, this forum has been a god send, and I owe a lot to everyone who has shared. I would be a fool to go against such clear and proven advice!

I have looked up my rights here in the UK, and it appears that me moving out in the short term shouldn't have any negative consequences ont he children or our house. At the moment, we have both agreed this is a trial and short term separation to see where we are at. If things do proceed to D, due to the nature of our situation and one child being from another parent I think I have already accepted that my wife would maintain primary custody. Not that I wouldn't love to have that, however I do feel it would be the best thing for the children.

I have looked up my rights here in the UK, and it appears that me moving out in the short term shouldn't have any negative consequences ont he children or our house. At the moment, we have both agreed this is a trial and short term separation to see where we are at. If things do proceed to D, due to the nature of our situation and one child being from another parent I think I have already accepted that my wife would maintain primary custody. Not that I wouldn't love to have that, however I do feel it would be the best thing for the children.

Incoming 2x4 here, so if necessary duck. You mentioned that yesterday she expressed that she was already thinking it was time for you guys to have a trial separation. In the context of her other lies, that screams to me that she wants a chance to use this separation to test drive her AP. If by separation that means you move out of the house and she can get you to watch the kids, best believe that this means her AP is going to come over to the house.

Rather than separate, I would go speak to a divorce attorney today and get your ducks in a row. You can be clear with her, that way you protect yourself and your kids. Then you let her know that she is perfectly free to be with whoever she wants, but you will not be a part of it as her husband.

I'm not sure at this stage that I want to be accusing her outright of an affair as I still have no actual proof of it, but I will be focusing heavily on the fact that lies and deception have weighed heavily on me and my actions and made me believe that something could have been going on.

This looks reasonable without proof. I'd suggest:

[Wife] You and I agree on one thing: neither one of us wants me to be controlling. So far, all of your behavior points to you having an affair, or at the very best an inappropriate relationship. I do not have the time nor the temperament to try to control your behavior. You are an adult and have every right to make your own choices and live with the consequences. Right now you are choosing to engage with someone who is threatening our marriage. I am also choosing to begin to detach from you as a direct result of your actions. I will not tolerate this kind of disrespect from your or anyone and will control my reaction to your choices. I caution you to not wait too long to come to your senses, because I may have moved on by then. If not, we'll both be okay.

[This message edited by 1994 at 3:32 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

I'm not sure at this stage that I want to be accusing her outright of an affair as I still have no actual proof of it

When I originally found out about them talking, she told me she had sent one picture of herself to him and regretted it and never sent anymore. Since they started talking on Snapchat, her score rose from 14, to 98.

Both of these can't be true at the same time. Especially since they moved to snap chat after she agreed to stop talking to him. I would guess only a few of the people on this board actually caught our spouse's with their AP. Most of us had to put it together from circumstantial evidence.

At the moment, we have both agreed this is a trial and short term separation to see where we are at.

She is lying to you. Every time you talk to her she gaslights, manipulates, lies, and stonewalls you. I believe you'd be better off letting your actions speak for you.

Candid.

Why are you sleeping on the couch?

Did you get drunk at your daughter's birthday? No? Did you lose the family savings betting on the Lakers in the playoffs? No?

Did you back the wife's mercedes into the garbage dumpster on accident and scratch the fender? NO?

It's easy as a man to think the noble thing to do is to exile yourself to the couch. But I will very plainly state... this act of self-sacrifice is actually counterproductive.

Beds are for sleeping. couches are for sitting. Sleep in your own bed. If wife wants a separation, and if she wants to explore options--- She can sleep on the couch, or in the dog house, or in the back of the car, or at someone else's house.

There's no reason for you to be the one making sacrifices to accomodate wife's likely infidelity.

Why are you moving out? If she wants to seperate, she can go find a place to stay.

It's these small things that enable you to begin to take control of your own life. She needs to understand that separation means your needs get met before hers.

[This message edited by swoned at 5:14 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

I am just now catching up on this thread. I’m sorry you find yourself here. You need to step up and take control of this situation. She’s lied and hidden a relationship with another man, then lied about her whereabouts. She is having sleepovers with her friends. Where there is smoke there is fire, and brother you are in an inferno.

Every bit of evidence you have is exactly the evidence I had on my WW, including Snapchat score. She was in multiple A’s. I recommend

Reclaiming your bed, she wants out she can leave. Don’t move one inch for her A.

Get the phone, ask her unlock it and hand it over, if she refuses then she should expect the worst. Don’t fall for being controlling or jealous.

A trial separation is just a way to spend more time with AP, and stop you from messing it up. She is weighing her options.

You have enough evidence to move forward and away from this.

I really couldn’t grasp how the 180 could help me, it seemed counter productive, until I had enough of it. It was the best advice I have received here. It changed me for the better and I still put myself health and wellness first.

It’s very, VERY common for a cheater to go back and retroactively rewrite the history of your marriage to accommodate their infidelity or, pave the way to infidelity by seeding the ground before them with convenient Pre-placed grievances.

Here on SI, we often hear, in a newly minted BS’s preamble on JFO, that there has been problems in the marriage…things have been going downhill…my WS has been unhappy and has been trying to make me aware of it…that opportunities have been missed and that they accept responsibility and have been trying to improve…that they well understand that there’s never a good reason to cheat but, BUT, BUT…

But what? Infidelity is insane. It’s incredibly, over the top cruel, unloving and mutually destructive involving collateral damage to innocents.

Many times cheating was already well underway long before the first red flag, the first sign of discontent. The seeds of cheating begins deep in the mind, planted in developmental childhood and slowly surfaces when time, circumstances, life stressors, opportunity comes into alignment. It begins as escapism fantasy and evolves to reality long before the BS realizes that anything is wrong, long before a BS can take "preventive or corrective" action-if that was at all possible, but it’s not. It is not possible to "Affair Proof" a marriage. Usually, by D-Day, you’re only seeing the tip of an iceberg that has been forming, sometimes, for years.

Many times when the cheating partner comes forward with their first formal complaint about the marriage, about their perceived unhappiness, cheating or cheating ideation is already well underway.

Sometimes, a marriage can begin to go downhill because the cheating spouse is very insidiously siphoning off affection, attention, care, devotion and various forms of intimacy from the marriage and their spouse, diverting it to someone else or, something else, such as: early affair ideation and/or some form of personal internal issue-conflict that the WS can’t source and so attributes their discontent upon the BS. The BS is often left thinking that it’s their fault or partly their fault. The BS will begin efforts to try and save the marriage and be a better partner, to no avail, because there is already ongoing waywardness and the very underpinnings of the problem actually lie solely and deeply within their very troubled spouse.

If a spouse is predisposed to cheat, they are also likely to be very poor at problem resolution, self-soothing, emotional intimacy, communication, maturity, empathy, impulse control…basically the fundamentals required for making any marriage work.

Well adapted, mature, mentally healthy couples who have devoted themselves to marriage, who have internalized their vows, do not consider ANY form of infidelity as part of a wholesome repertoire of constant marital maintenance, improvement or problem resolution. Divorce is the rational and caring final option, but never the insane nuclear holocaust option of infidelity.

Sir, I believe that you’re presently only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Even if your spouse has not followed through with a PA or EA, she is well on her way to one. Your marital boundaries leave much to be desired, probably pushed to the limits by her as you progressively acquiesce. When you decide to confront, make sure you sweep nothing under the rug. Expose all of the iceberg. Leave nothing behind, unaddressed, to metastasize and reemerge later on down the road. Don’t except any form of blame shifting or rationalization of something so utterly insane as infidelity.

I am still overwhelmed by the responses and willingness to help and advise from you all. Thank you so much.

To answer the question of why I am moving out? Pure and simply, it's genuinely the best thing for our children and I know that deep down. I don't want to get into details, but due to challenges and dynamics with them, it would upset them far FAR more if it was the other way around. Whatever happens between us, I will never deny that she is an amazing mother. Right now, my children are the most important thing in all this and I want to do everything I can to minimise the impact on them.

Before I left last night we have a really good, calm discussion and I outlined everything I had originally intended to send in the message that you guys helped me construct above. I made it very clear to her that if we do eventually decide to reconcile, I expect her to agree that she won't talk to him anymore. Full no contact. I want to see her block him and delete him on her messengers and she suggested deleting the app. I would expect assurances that if I asked to see her messages, she would show me. I told her how I felt about her messaging him, and tried to make her see and understand how inappropriate it was, regardless of what the content in the messages was. That even if it was innocent, she was still establishing a relationship with someone and discussing personal things and how that could easily transition to further feelings and actions. I also made it very clear that I won't stand for lying and secrets. We would both need to be very open in future, and I myself would also need to be more prepared to speak up about my own feelings.
I told her that she needs to take this time to really think and consider what she wants for herself, and consider the decisions she is making in this moment. The ball is in her court now. I will not talk to her about anything else but the kids/house etc. until she is ready to have a proper discussion with me about where she wants to go, and we can set boundaries.

At this point, I think I am resigned to the fact that it is likely over. I don't want it to be, and do hope that this time apart gives her the chance to wake up and makes some choices, and we can find a way through it however I am not getting my hopes up, and want to be prepared to fully detach. I am going to focus fully on myself, my own physical and mental health and my children. If there comes a time when we discuss the future, I will face it then, but until that point I'm going to take each day at a time.

I've realised that I cannot stop her from seeing someone else during this period. I can't control her actions, her thoughts or who she messages or see's. I have no control over anyone but myself. All her choices are now her own, and she has to live with the consequences of them. I am no longer going to let myself feel hurt, angered or upset over the thought of what she may do because it's not my problem and I can't do anything about it. The ball is firmly in her court to sort her own head out, whilst I take the time to sort myself out.

Come what may!

Brother, I’m so sorry you find yourself here. You will find incredible support though. I too agree that she is involved, to why degree I don’t know. I too was a kind and trusting soul. My suggested approach may be a bit different than others here, but it’s based off of my nature. As others have suggested, first and foremost you don’t want to tip her off that you are actively seeking information. I read in the Waywards forum about a woman (can’t remember her username), but she was making friends with a male coworker and her husband was concerned and kindly asked her to be careful where she was going with this. It just so happened that it turned into a physical affair and her husband found out. They went NC for a bit and when he came back from a trip, he told her that he loves her but he can no longer be married to her as she is liar and a cheater and he didn’t like what she turned him into. Might I suggest you have a conversation with her and let her know that considering how the two of you have have been reacting to each other lately (your previous spying acts) that you are feeling concerned about her friendship with other men and the girls night outs and sleepovers. Just let her know that these kinds of thing make you feel uncomfortable but don’t try to make it seem like you "just don’t trust her". Tell her to just make good choices because a slip up could likely end your relationship. It’s a subtle way of letting her know that if she continues to lie to you and does/is in an affair you will be done. Or some iteration of that. I’d delve more into it but I have to leave for work now. Good luck my friend.

The women I know who acted this way left their marriages. Your ws might not have enough ducks in a row to leave but it looks like she is getting there. Plan accordingly.

In marriages our love for the other ebbs and flows. There have been times when one or the other of us wondered how we got here. Because we are committed to the marriage we have waited it out and issues fixed themselves. There is no swooning over the other. That is pretty short lived in any relationship. Unless I misread this you feel you contributed to her losing love for you. If this is how she handles things the next guy is going to get dumped. Were you a monster to live with? If not then please do not take on the burden of feeling so powerful that you control her thoughts. She has autonomy. She decided lying and sneaking were her rights.

Protect yourself emotionally. Stay steady in your resolve to move ahead. Don’t wait on her.