SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hellfire, you ok? Honest question.

There can be other possibility for why OP's wife gave POS's number to her daughter. She trusted this POS. She might have believed that he won't harm her in anyway. Maybe she thought he could be a father figure or a friendly uncle to her daughter. Just like she was involved with his kids. So, saying she set her own daughter up for grooming is a huge stretch.

Maybe she thought that the man she was fucking behind her dad's back would be a father figure, role model, friendly uncle to her?? I don't think this helps her case remotely. That is profoundly shitty. That is many future therapy sessions levels of shitty.

Sorry, Lurking, not with you today.

DevastatedDee:

My intention was not to make her case easy or make excuses for her behavior. I was just trying to make a point that not all devastation causing actions has to have malicious intent. Setting her own daughter up for grooming implies that wife had malicious intent against her daughter which I think is not true. Still it doesn't excuse her behavior.

InkHulk :

You don't have to be. Only you know the what's happening there.

saying she set her own daughter up for grooming is a huge stretch.

Oh, right. Because it's absolutely normal to be privately messaging a 16 year old girl, "sweetie," and be seeking her attention. I'm sure this nearly 40(?) year old man just wanted to talk about kittens..for 3 weeks. Sure. Ok. Was he also speaking that way to the son?

As a CSA survivor, his wife knew better. Again, I did say she may not have thought this man would groom her child. She wasn't thinking of her child at all. She was so desperate for the man's love that she wanted them..her daughter and OM...to get close. Even knowing the dangers. Her safety wasn't a consideration.

Ink..I'm ok. Triggered, yes. My entire heart hurts for your daughter. She probably doesn't feel he was looking for more from her. Predators are good at that.

I'm going to take a break from this thread for the day.

Before I go..be gentle with your daughter. Let her know she is not at fault for any of this. This is 100% her mother's fault.

Take care.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:39 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

Wow, just wow. I'm reacting as a parent right now. I'm so sorry you're going through this. My momma bear is in overdrive thinking about treeing this guy and then tearing him limb from limb. No one ever gets to call my DD sweetie but those in the fam. Pretty telling when the DD's BF has a more appropriate response than the WW mom.

WHY give a minor daughter a grown man's number? Any grown man's number? I mean, I'm a woman and I still text my babysitters on a string with their parents. My H doesn't drive my daughter's friends home alone in the car- only if our DD is with him or I am too. My kids don't contact their friends' parents to arrange anything- they chat w/ their buddies to get play dates started and I work logistics with their parents.

There is absolutely no reason for any adult other than blood relatives to have access to your kid like that- one on one contact.

This was grooming. I'm VERY careful with how I address my kids' friends and how I give them hugs. The last thing any parent wants to have is the "weird vibe" coming from one of their kids' friends' parents. ESPECIALLY if you've got a teenager. ESPECIALLY if it's an adult calling them "sweetie" on a lone chat text. WTF.

I'm with HF, it sounds like grooming, looks like grooming- a full on quacking case of grooming.

IH, as for CT's comment, as a fWW, I can genuinely say she's spot on with the "fog of unearned trust" us WW's have around our AP's. It's horrible, but our heads are so far up our ass that we think we can actually trust the shady AF person who's willing to cheat on their spouse and cheat WITH us on OUR spouse... yeah, total lalaland there.

It's not a popular topic here, but there is a thing about "mourning the loss of the A/AP" that WS's have to deal with. WE're still pretty foggy at this time as we're working the poison from the dopamine highs out of our system. Kind of like withdrawal from addiction drugs. That leads to more "CYA" thinking than, "OH SHIT! BH needs to know this STAT!"

I agree with CT that it's more likely she was CYA, not concerned about AP. Avoidance is a natural response to our shame- and our shame is HUGE after DDay (unless you've got an unrepentant-double-down-on-stupid WS) and we're constantly vigilant and trying to minimize the consequences of our actions. She needed to be the first to tell you about this. I'm sorry she wasn't. There's a lot of trickle truth that, looking back, I wish I had just ripped off the bandaid with and told H about after DDay. Would have purged the wound of more of the poison and maybe we would have healed faster and stronger than we currently are.

Again, I'm sorry you're in this situation. The AP is a total creep. I would ask around with other families on the team if the guy has their daughter's numbers. This isn't likely his first go at it. These kind of predators smell blood in the water with past abuse victims- I was one. Not CSA, but emotional/mental/physical abuse plus my H's financial and emotional abuse made me VERY vulnerable to my AP. I chose what I chose, but I likely wouldn't have been as much of a target to my opportunist AP if I didn't have all the shame and baggage weighing me down. I wasn't his first A, and I really doubt I'll be his last.

Damn Ink. This is brutal. I feel anxiety in my chest on your behalf. And your poor girl... be sure to check in with her on her feelings here. She may feel caught in the middle somehow or responsible for the fallout that's coming.

I don't know if this guy was grooming. It sounds quite possible. I had another thought though too... this man seemed to take some kind of pleasure out of encroaching on your life. Unless I'm remembering wrong, I seem to recall his requests of your WW involving humiliating you. Some APs due get off on one upping the spouse just as much as they enjoy the affair sex and ego kibbles.

In my situation (I'm going vague on details for identity purposes), the AP showed up a couple of times in places where she knew we would be or, worse, where my WS and DD would be. When I found that out I think I could have torn her head off with my bare hands. She was near my kid. I still see red thinking about it. She wasn't grooming, obviously, but she sure did love feeling a "part" of every aspect of my WS's life invited or not.

It's not apples to apples but an example of an AP gleefully inserting herself wherever she could. Food for thought.

Look, I certainly doubt that my wife was intentionally giving my daughter over to this piece of shit to be groomed and abused. But that is NOT the point. My wife put my daughter in great danger and without my daughter’s boyfriend (who just went up 1000 points of esteem with me) who the fuck knows where this could have gone. My wife’s judgment is so flawed I just can’t trust her.

Edit: and she lied and intentionally hid this from me, ensuring that my daughter wouldn’t have a chance to properly address her experience with it.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 8:27 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

Ink..I'm ok. Triggered, yes. My entire heart hurts for your daughter. She probably doesn't feel he was looking for more from her. Predators are good at that.

I'm going to take a break from this thread for the day.

Take care of yourself, you’ve done more than enough here today. Thanks for showing up for me with force. My heart hurts back for you.

Before I go..be gentle with your daughter. Let her know she is not at fault for any of this. This is 100% her mother's fault.

I promise.

Ink, I'm so sorry for you and your DD. What a mess she allowed into your lives! I agree that she likely didn't do it with the intention of DD being groomed by OM but it doesn't make this any better. She SHOULD know better. Regardless, she put herself before your DD's safety. Maybe she didn't think it would happen to her but she certainly knew the risks. She knew well enough to delete the evidence when things went south.

I'm curious as to why some posters think this isn't grooming - if this was a WS texting an AP, wouldn't we call the significant amount of texts and pet names an EA? Or fishing if the WS was texting a potential AP like this? How does their age gap suddenly make this seem less inappropriate than if it was happening between two adults? Not looking to argue but genuinely curious what the reasoning would be because it seems clear cut to me and I would not interpret it as anything less than flirtatious if I was on the receiving end.

I/we got so distracted, preoccupied with all this affair crap that we all but missed our kid’s formative adolescent teen years, the most important years in child development, when kids are most vulnerable to toxic domestic environments.

This is super important. I’ve already invested almost a year into trying to recover from this and it has put almost all my mental energy into myself and my wife. My kids are growing up without me and I can’t allow that.

Look, I certainly doubt that my wife was intentionally giving my daughter over to this piece of shit to be groomed and abused. But that is NOT the point. My wife put my daughter in great danger and without my daughter’s boyfriend (who just went up 1000 points of esteem with me) who the fuck knows where this could have gone. My wife’s judgment is so flawed I just can’t trust her.

Edit: and she lied and intentionally hid this from me, ensuring that my daughter wouldn’t have a chance to properly address her experience with it.

And it gets even worse. Your WW stood up for OM months after (IIRC in one of your threads from the end of 2012/beginning of 2023). This, despite knowing that OM had been texting your daughter inappropriately. Why the hell WW wasn't creeped out herself by OM's behavior towards your daughter is REALLY scary.

I am so sorry Friend, but now your job of looking after your kids in the aftermath of your WW's affair is known to be exponentially harder than it even was before. And how the hell could you possibly trust your WW as a partner for this going forward. Hell it is HER that you will have to help your kids navigate their relationship with!

Please be gentle with your daughter. I know HellFire already said this and you promised to--and that you will be!, but I do want to add my own emphasis if I may. She is probably blaming HERSELF for e.g., letting OP text her and not shutting that down herself. ETA: Or for not telling you herself earlier.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:06 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

Get the OM OUT of your life.

How? We came to the conclusion on the bomb thread to not do anything (I understand you have a minority objection there, but I was convinced). I’m guessing these messages are irretrievable, and even if they were recovered my daughter’s description of them sounds like early stage grooming, which I’m guessing could be explained away as pleasantries. POSOM knows every secret about our family, my wife told him everything. He is far better armed than I am in a conflict, both literally and figuratively. The only thing I can think to say is to tell my wife that I will go after full custody of the kids if she allows POSOM to remain in contact with them, but holy shit does that bring back nightmares of my childhood and that would go nuclear.

Why the hell WW wasn't creeped out herself by OM's behavior towards your daughter is REALLY scary.

100% agree.

The lie is enough for me to be done after all this time and all my admonitions about truthfulness. After the 12 pages of answers I was talking about moving out of "atone" and into "atune", but I warned her that if I found any lies that it would be "catastrophic". Here comes the catastrophe. The involvement of my daughter is unthinkable. CT, I disagree with your post more than I ever have in my time here. I’ll come around to talk about why in a bit, but mostly it’s that by this time my wife was detaching from him and knew enough to know he was unstable. I don’t know what the fuck happened yet, but I am going to find out.

What part did you disagree with? ..the part about obscene risks or added layers of betrayal? ..the part where AP's aren't a stranger to the WS? ..or the part where we really have to reach acceptance that the WS did these things?

I see that you've clarified the fact that this wasn't an oversight and that your WW knew she was withholding the truth from you. I do agree that if this new revelation is grounds for being done if that's where you're at with it. She lied past the point at which you made it clear you would NOT tolerate more lies. As I said earlier, a separation can clarify your thoughts and help break through remaining enmeshment.

I do think that if you honestly believe that your WW had any intention of allowing your daughter to be sexually groomed by anyone, you should consider not only filing for divorce, but for sole custody as well. You'll want to be prepared with some kind of evidence that the guy is a legitimate threat though, perhaps some kind of previous incident of preying upon minors?

Your daughter is okay, perhaps because you raised her to be smart and good.

I don’t know that my daughter is ok. We are worried about her in general, she seems to be struggling in life. There is the abuse I’ve described before, and that definitely affected her, we’ve had a heart breaking therapy session where she had us come to her IC. IC doesn’t seem to be the magic bullet for her and we’ve been trying to think of what else we can offer her. Maybe keeping fucking perverts away from her would have been a good step.

This isn't "you know, WS's lie and it's normal and they weren't in their right minds and so on and you can move past it" crap. If people are putting up with this level of betrayal and calling it "expected", that's not healthy. Surely to god there's a limit on what one must forgive.

^^^ This 100% I absolutely think there is a limit and this is unforgivable. Whether it was grooming or not she facilitated a conversation between daughter and the AP during the A. That is a big no no. A line too far to cross. Why anyone would advise R at this point is like dying by a thousand cuts.

Trickle Truthed to the breaking point.

R usually breaks down when we’ve been trickle truthed to the breaking point about the actual nature of the affair, the actual depth of betrayal or, to a breaking point about the actual nature of our WS. Nothing will reveal the true nature and character of your partner than the long road to R. Trickle truth can come in many forms from new revelations about affair details to new revelations about the character of our partners when they’re put through the crucible of R.

I reached my breaking point about 18 months into R. It wasn’t trickled truth of affair details, but from a trickling of truth about the various aspects of my WS’s character, her level of emotional intimacy-intelligence, and her depth and extent of devotion. When you reach that breaking point, everything becomes increasingly clear, your path becomes almost a forgone conclusion.

Conversely, R can go the other way. You can, along the long road to R, learn and appreciate positive things about your WS. The crucible of R can reveal attributes of your WS that you would have never realized had they not been put to the test, a test they put to themselves that, in a trickle-like fashion, reveal appealing truths about their nature and, you trickle back in love with them.

I don’t know if you’re at that epiphanic breaking point or just suffering from another one of the many setbacks we all experience on the road to R. Our breaking points are very personal and unique unto ourselves. We can’t tell you what’s tolerable or forgivable. I’ve seen people break from what seemed a very remorseful WS and, I’ve seen people tolerate and forgive stuff I would never.

Just make sure you’re not making fear based decisions. Fear of divorce, fear of the unknown, fear of uncertainty, fear of being alone, fear for the kids, etc. I think I could live with an anger based decision better than I could a fear based one but, the best decisions are borne from…

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:30 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

How did it happen that your daughter told your wife about the messages or showed her, before they were deleted? And when was the messaging taking place in the timeline of the affair, was it after the trip with AP and OBS when she says the PA stopped?

The daily talking for three weeks is creepy. The AP is a creep. But you have previously spoken of your wife involving your son in their shared hobby, and your wife hung around OBS’s kids. At that stage of the affair cycle, what was your wife’s thinking about facilitating contact between AP and your daughter, even about kittens?