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Caught her in a lie, might be done

Topic is Sleeping.
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:25 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

This is so much more than a lie of omission. Allowing a grown man that you are having an affair with, private access to your teenager daughter is not typical ww bullshit. I don't know what he was saying to her, but she felt weird enough to show it to her boyfriend, who read some of it,and told her the OM was being "creepy."

IMO, this is another dday. Also, as CSA survivor,IMO, this is worse than her screwing another man.

Yes, you do need to get your head straight. You may decide to chalk this up to "ws bullshit,to be expected,etc" behavior.

Gently quesion your daughter. But, understand, she may not be aware if he was grooming her. She may just think he was being friendly. Predators are smart at what they do. Kids don't typically understand they're being groomed.

What is your wife saying about all of this?

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:26 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791055
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JasonCh ( member #80102) posted at 2:30 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

InkHulk,

<<hug>>

Let the OM go. Let the messages go. You will not be finding truth in your WW words -- look at her actions.

posts: 389   ·   registered: Mar. 18th, 2022
id 8791057
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 2:47 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

IH —

Damn. That’s a horrific reveal that AP communicated with your daughter. Ain’t nothing good about that.

My wife’s last two trickle truth moments about ended me, much less the M. Both reveals that she had lied about several times, before she finally let me know. It was our MC that explained most WS are in constant fear about "the last straw" — that the next piece of trickle truth will end it. It’s not an excuse, it’s just a part of the horror show for most of us.

We don’t ever owe a WS grace or a last chance, and I always understand when people are done.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 2:48 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

Married 35+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived. M Restored.
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4698   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8791059
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 3:07 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

If you didn't have such finely tuned papa bear instincts and didn't think to ask your daughter yourself, your wife would've happily taken this secret to the grave and had your daughter suffer the burden of this secret for the rest of her life. As a mother, I couldn't imagine doing something so cruel to my child.

To follow up on what OldWounds and Bigger said about trickle truth, the reality is that your wife had no excuse to avoid full disclosure. She knows the importance of it because it's what you've been grappling with in therapy. You have shown her tremendous grace and compassion. You agreed to all sorts of limitations on asking questions in order to make her feel as safe and comfortable as possible with being honest.

Yet despite all your patience and latitude, she continued to keep this secret to protect the OM and avoid taking responsibility her actions... not just in conducting the affair, but enabling the grooming of her own daughter.

You seem to have come to this realization already, but I don't see the point in waiting for the next piano to fall on your head.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:08 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1794   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8791064
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FindingaWayHome ( member #78829) posted at 3:31 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Hi IH,

Right now, I can appreciate your anger.

But I think this rage is coursing thru my soul and killing off what I had left with my wife, the love.


You were concerned about the OM setting off a "bomb" in your family, and then you discover that your wife had done this.
That would set me off on a rage.

Yet there are some significant questions that remain:
What was said in the texts (and is the OM a predator)?
How did the OM obtain your daughter's phone number (and was your WW involved)?
Has he connected with any of your other children?

It's not my intention to set you off, rather I'm praying and advising that you calm down enough to obtain the information (and to seek the assistance of experts who may assist you at this critical time - eg those with phone security skills that can clarify some of these questions).

Please be assured that many of us also feel righteous anger when a child is threatened.
And we're here to support and encourage you as you find a way forward.
FAWH

posts: 104   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8791067
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 3:38 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

I hear a few of you trying to convince me not to do anything stupid or rash. I’ve called in sick to work today and am trying to exercise well beyond my normal to try to physically process some of this. We’ll see if it works. But I’m not tempted at this time to do anything illegal. I have my kids to think of and a new and better life to look forward to.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1521   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791068
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:51 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Great update at an awful time, Ink.

I see your W protecting herself, not om, even though she's abandoning your daughter in the process.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29576   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8791070
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 4:57 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Aww man InkHulk I am sorry. What gets me about your WW is that she was defending OM (late last year early this year) even AFTER OM creeped on your daughter **and your WW knew about it**. OM's trying to get involved with your kids and who the hell know what he did and your WW's allowing of it--I hate to have to say this, but I do suspect that there may be a lot more where this came from...

You know what I think you should do when it comes to your WW! (even though I've been trying to be more diplomatic about it)

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:09 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

posts: 781   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8791078
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 5:05 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Hey Ink. Just wanted to chime in. I know you are elbows deep in this crap, but I just wanted to encourage you that there is an "other side" to this journey, and you will get to it. Things do get better, even if it does not seem like it now.

Early on, people would say this to me and I just wanted to punch them in the face. I could not see my life being anything but terrible. Yet, I went from planning how to take my own life to sitting in my own bed in my own place drinking my morning coffee and contemplating how good life is, as i watch the sky lighten.

Sometimes ivwonder how I survived, but survive I did and now I'm thriving. Hoping forcacreal success story from you. Keep your chin up.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 20

posts: 1696   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8791079
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 6:01 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

I remember how truly shocked and violated I felt when I realized how much information my WH had shared about me and about our family when he was cheating. These people knew our names, where we lived, how to find us on our jobs, the names of our pets... it was an obscene risk, another layer of betrayal. This too, however, is part of the process. As shocking as it is when it's your life and your kid, the WS doesn't have the same allergy to the AP that we have. While they're in the throes of fantasy, they're trying to work this person into their life, and in your case, that guy was in the periphery of your life for over three years. He's not a stranger to your WW and she wasn't thinking of him in those terms. She trusted him. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows your preference on boxers or briefs. shocked

I can't tell by your post whether your WW was deliberately hiding this information from you or if it was something she didn't think about, but the reality is that the AP was an unseen presence in your family life for over three years. I think this new revelation brings into focus this extra layer of betrayal. This violation of your family's privacy always existed though. It's part of the affair and a major difference in how each of you perceive the AP.

Don't get me wrong.. I'm not making excuses for your WW. This is, however, part of the process if R is your eventual choice. We eventually have to reach acceptance about what happened, not just the physical aspects of the affair, but the emotional ones as well and how stupid and trusting our WS was while they were cheating. This is unexpected insight into the WS's mindset, and even after we've been working so hard to try and understand what happened, it's not a welcome one.

I do think that if you need some time to think about what it is that you want for your future going forward, that separation might be in order. Bear in mind that the longer a separation persists, the more likely it is to become permanent, but this might be a risk you need to take in order to find clarity and break through whatever enmeshment might still be in play. There's A LOT to forgive in R. Sometimes, too much. Everyone is different and there's no wrong answer as to when enough is enough.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6980   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8791082
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:15 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Her boyfriend apparently saw some of it over her shoulder and thought it was creepy enough to suggest she should cut it off.

I think this statement is very telling. If OM was texting normal crap, then her boyfriend wouldn't have thought it was creepy. He saw something that set his alarm bells off.

Also,the boyfriend advised her to cut it off. Since we know your wife took the phone,after dday, we know your daughter didn't take that advice.

Did your daughter go to her mom, and tell her OM was making her uncomfortable? Or that her boyfriend thought the things OM was saying to her were creepy? If so,and her mom didn't tell OM to stop,or block him immediately, will tell you a lot, when it comes to just accepting this as the normal process of R..(some believe this is just par for the course...I vehemently disagree. True,as a CSA survivor, this could be triggering,and I'm over reacting. OR, I see things like this differently than those who haven't been groomed, because I can see it for what it is. True,at this point we don't know the content of the messages. Regardless, there is zero good reason for a non relative adult male who is having an affair with the girl's mother, to be privately messaging a 16 year old child.)

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:17 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791084
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 6:17 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

My two cents FWIW.

THE CW immediately blocked the AP from the Daughter when she found out. Her mistake was hiding it.

And she hid it from her BH b/c she didn’t want to face the backlash she would receive.

Clearly she hasn’t learned anything from the affair. She’s still behaving like a lying fool.

Sadly Her actions speak volumes.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13791   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8791085
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 6:22 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

The lie is enough for me to be done after all this time and all my admonitions about truthfulness. After the 12 pages of answers I was talking about moving out of "atone" and into "atune", but I warned her that if I found any lies that it would be "catastrophic". Here comes the catastrophe. The involvement of my daughter is unthinkable. CT, I disagree with your post more than I ever have in my time here. I’ll come around to talk about why in a bit, but mostly it’s that by this time my wife was detaching from him and knew enough to know he was unstable. I don’t know what the fuck happened yet, but I am going to find out.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1521   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791086
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 6:43 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Hellfire

True,as a CSA survivor, this could be triggering,and I'm over reacting. OR, I see things like this differently than those who haven't been groomed, because I can see it for what it is

You’re not overreacting. Also, InkHulk’s wife is a CSA survivor, too. She knew what she was reading and worse… she knew the secret she was expecting her daughter to keep for the rest of her life. Despicable.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1794   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8791089
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 6:55 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

THE CW immediately blocked the AP from the Daughter when she found out.

This is not correct. I am actually with my daughter right now, just so happened to have a Dr Appt I had to take her to. I asked her about it and got a lot of info. She said that she started chatting with POSOM from my wife’s phone, talking about kittens and shit (remember that I have a cat from the bastard). My daughter said that my wife gave her his number and she switched the convo to her phone. She said my wife knew both about the conversations on her own phone and my daughters, that she remembers chatting about them.

My daughter said that POSOM usually initiated contact and that they talked daily for something like three weeks. She called him “attention seeking”. He would call her "sweetie" and "cutie" and shit like that, and that is what my daughter’s boyfriend was alarmed by. My daughter says that she respected her boyfriend’s request to stop contact and ghosted him. She said corrected herself today and said that it was her (my daughter) that blocked him after d-day, but still my wife went in and deleted the messages.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:56 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1521   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791090
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:07 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

my wife gave her his number and she switched the convo to her phone.

She said my wife knew both about the conversations on her own phone and my daughters,

She called him "attention seeking". He would call her "sweetie" and "cutie" and shit like that,

That's grooming. 100%.

Your wife gave her his number,so they could have private conversations on her phone.

She knew it was happening,in real time. She set it up.

She set her up.

To be groomed.

Omg.

Your wife put her in danger. And really,who cares that she probably didn't think it would happen. She's a grown ass woman. She's not stupid. She so wanted the OM to love her,that she encouraged her daughter to have private conversations with this man.

He was grooming her.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:08 PM, Tuesday, May 16th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8791092
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 7:11 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

I can't tell by your post whether your WW was deliberately hiding this information from you or if it was something she didn't think about, but the reality is that the AP was an unseen presence in your family life for over three years.

When I confronted her last night, she admitted that she was intentionally hiding this from me. She tried to tell me this is the last thing. And that she had this great investment opportunity in ocean front property in Arizona.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1521   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8791093
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 7:13 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

I'm not here much these days so I don't know your whole story, but I don't think that even matters in this case. This isn't "you know, WS's lie and it's normal and they weren't in their right minds and so on and you can move past it" crap. If people are putting up with this level of betrayal and calling it "expected", that's not healthy. Surely to god there's a limit on what one must forgive.

This is a grown man calling your daughter cutie and sweetie and your wife not finding that to be a damned emergency. I'm single and if I were dating a man who even wanted my daughter's number, he'd be toast. If he had it after we'd been together for a few years and texted her anything other than "Could you tell your mom that I've been in a car accident" he would be toast. If he were calling her sweetie and cutie in any context, I would be dumping, blocking and making sure I had bullets for my gun as I ensured that my home was locked at all times. I don't even care if that sounds like an overreaction. I don't even care if it is. Teen girls really do get groomed by their mom's boyfriends. They really do get raped by their mom's boyfriends. It really does happen and it happens often enough for it to be a five alarm fire if he's giving her pet names and texting her conversationally. Seriously, grown people here, how many of you have 16-year-old friends whom you text for attention?

This is relationship ending even if she had been honest about this with you on your initial DDay. She likely put your child in danger from a predator so that she could cheat on you. That's real. That's why you're in a rage. That's not something that you need to calm down and be accepting about. Sometimes you need to let your rage ride you right on out of a bad situation and this is one of those times. Good for you for being strong.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5083   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8791094
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 InkHulk (original poster member #80400) posted at 7:16 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

I just 1000% agree with those saying that there is absolutely no reason for a non family adult male to be private messaging a 16 year old girl. Add the creep factor of the content of the message and this is a fucking disaster.

I just looked at her phone and messages were not included in the back ups, and I’m not sure she has backups going that far back as the backup setting was off. Should you see multiple historical backups to choose from or just the most recent?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 1521   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 7:18 PM on Tuesday, May 16th, 2023

Hellfire,

I don't think we have enough info to call what he was doing as 'grooming'. We need to know the contents of those chats for this.

There can be other possibility for why OP's wife gave POS's number to her daughter. She trusted this POS. She might have believed that he won't harm her in anyway. Maybe she thought he could be a father figure or a friendly uncle to her daughter. Just like she was involved with his kids. So, saying she set her own daughter up for grooming is a huge stretch.

I think what we need to know now are the contents of the messages and why OP's wife deleted those messages.

posts: 456   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8791096
Topic is Sleeping.
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