SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm very sorry you're going through this. I like how The1stWife listed out the red flags.

So looking at this through the lense of my WH...some WS just have no intention of breaking it off. In my case, I believe 100% that WH and AP had discussed how they would response should I found out. Because when I did find out I made him text her a NC, which she replied OK, no problem. But then I find just 5 days later WH is texting her still...searching for hourly motels near his job. They were also talking on the phone but using WhatsApp. When I confronted him he said she was stalking him, texting someone else to get to him etc etc. I mean you get the picture, lies on lies on lies. Because he too didn't tell me that she was trying to communicate with him....and why?? Because it's exactly what he wanted lol! He still wanted this AP and the A.

This was absolutely the nail in the coffin for me. How much does one have to take before it's OK to hold your line in the sand on cheating? If the initial risk of losing it all on DDay1 wasn't enough, IMO that's all she wrote.

I'm sorry, sending you strength.

Please, you must inform the OBS. It's the best surest way to get her mind off of your H.

It's necessary now. Do not tell your H because he will take it as a reason to get in touch with her.

When you do get a hold of OBS, and you will figure out how to do it, you'll find out tout de suite if and how they are in contact.

He’s Already Lied

Yes, and anything he says now doesn’t matter. He took the call and tried to cover it up. He is still cheating on you. My WW jerked me around for 2 months after Dday. When I was finally done and heading to D. She finally was ready to drop the wayward bull shit.

Just a thought, your husband needs to stop volunteering at the theater if he truly wants to save the marriage.

My WH gave up his job AND a sport he was involved with for 37 years to focus on the marriage and the family.

My WH also had AP phone number under a man's name in his phone.

Please stay vigilant.

In case this hasn't occurred to you, this can be your deal breaker. It doesn't have to be another full blown affair for you to say "enough". He doesn't have to agree to it either. My ex broke my gift of reconciliation by messaging more women. In his mind, it was one of those "slips" that addicts have so I had to be "ok" with it since "I agreed to reconcile with an addict" For me, though, it was that final nail in the coffin of trust. Had he come to me and said "I"m struggling" before messaging more women, I probably could have worked through that, knowing he was being transparent. But he wasn't. So I walked.

Whatever you ultimately decide, please take back your power. The marriage is no longer a "2 yes's" situation. He created a new agreement where it's now up to you. But he already blew the marriage up. He doesn't hold any cards. Hugs.

I agree with most that it is VERY VERY likely he told her to expect such a voicemail from him and he is still willingly talking to her. It is textbook stuff. It is way more likely than his story that he answered a call from a number that he did not know and innocently pulled over to talk. When you think about it, there is really almost a 0% chance that is a true story. The waywards here are telling you this.

If you haven't already, you need to inform the OBS including this incident. Do not warn you WH.

Also, this is enough to be a dealbreaker. Why is he still volunteering in the theater if he will see her there? Is that volunteering more important that the marriage? By staying there, and lying, he is showing you that he doesn't actually think you will do anything about it. Take care of yourself and prove him wrong.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 5:14 PM, Monday, May 23rd]

My wife broke NC in our first shot at R. This resulted in one of my serious, but not in writing, divorce requests. Obviously you can't just be threatening divorce every day since that isn't really honest or kind. But if you are feeling like divorce is the best option right now, you should use that energy to plan and act towards it.

I didn't get real change from my wife until I wrote her a letter asking for divorce.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:37 AM, Tuesday, May 24th]

OK, so you guys were right about a few things. He did look at the phone before he answered it. He did recognize the number and answered it anyway. He did engage in more personal conversation after they discussed the theater stuff. She asked how we were doing and he said, "As OK as can be expected at this point." She asked him if he'd started therapy and he said he's been having trouble finding a therapist. She advised that going outside of his insurance network might get better results. I asked him why on earth he would mention his struggle with finding a therapist? He said, "Well, she's been in therapy for a long time so I thought she might be able to help." Right. BS. She lives in a city 30 miles away. Why would she know anything about getting a therapist around here. We have already done the research, made the calls, done the intake with the insurance company, etc. There's absolutely nothing that any random 3rd party, especially her, could add to the process. Besides, it's personal.

So then he "says" he got nervous about the time and said he had to go. She said, "Oh come on, don't you want to know how I'm doing?" So he kept listening. She said she had been struggling. She had not yet told her husband about the affair. So WH told her, "Well, you should probably tell him sooner than later. My wife has been talking about calling him. She's been trying to find his number or email with no luck. She might send him a letter. But I don't know if she'll actually do it." Right. So he related a private conversation that was between us. Further betrayal. He doesn't see it that way. He said, "Well, I only told her because I would want the benefit of being told if you didn't know about the A and someone was thinking about contacting you." I said, "OK, so it's still you and her vs. me? You're telling her things about me for her benefit? Can't you see that that's a huge betrayal?" He said he didn't think of it that way. He "says" he hung up when she started getting upset. I don't buy it. I think he's too weak to do that.

We started talking about NC and commitment and what that really means. He said he knew talking to her was wrong. He felt like her calling was a test and he failed. He still contends that this was the first time they'd talked since the day after D-Day. I told him I don't believe that. He stuck to that story.

As we were talking, he said something that just rocked me to my core. He said, "Well, you insisted on NC so we never got closure. Maybe if I'd felt that closure, I wouldn't have been tempted to pick up that call." Really? I said, "Wait, so you're blaming me for your weakness? For answering the call? For breaking your commitment? It's all my fault?" He said, "No, I didn't mean it that way. It's just that maybe AP and I could have talked since D-Day and been transparent about it with you and maybe it would have been easier that way. The pain would have gone away sooner" I said, "You still don't get it. You don't understand that the A did not deserve closure. She did not deserve to be let down easily. The A needed to burn in a smelly dumpster fire. I don't care if you and she felt pain. You should feel pain. You should feel every bit of it. But I can guarantee that it doesn't even come close to the pain I'm feeling!" He claims to understand how I feel. I seriously don't think he does. I also told him he's not ready for R. As long as he has his present mindset, he's not ready to do the work on himself or our marriage. I told him he hasn't hit rock bottom yet. He still doesn't understand the gravity of what he's done to me. He still doesn't understand her part in destroying me, and that any contact with her is further destroying my very soul. I told him he's clearly not ready to change, and that there's nothing I can do to help him. It all has to come from him, and he's done very little to show me he's committed and ready.

Then I did a bad thing. I'm not proud of it. I shouldn't have done it. But it was my pain, anger, frustration and raw emotions that made me do it. I grabbed his work phone and dialed her number. I was hoping she would think it was him and pick up. I got her voicemail. I let it rip. I called her some horrible names. I used the F word a few times (Ok a lot). I warned her to stay away from my husband and to never call him again. I also told her she should think about telling her husband before I do. Then I told her to have a miserable life and hung up. I know, I shouldn't have done it. It was bad. Now that I'm calm, do I regret it? Kind of. Sort of. Not really. Oops my bad. I'm going to sleep on WH's latest transgression. If anything, he got a good dose of my pain and anger, if that even means anything to him. I'll have to think about what to do next.

Sorry your dealing with some real bullshit.

Sending strength.

I truly believe that he 'knows' in his heart that you will not leave him over this. And in your heart, you may know that to be the case. Or not. It does not matter, because his belief is that yes, your marriage is in trouble, but the two of you will work through it.

With this mindset, he is already working with a 'known' outcome. What he REALLY needs, is to believe that his marriage is in trouble, and you are very likely to walk away from this marriage.

It can't be done with threats; it can't be done with ultimatums. The ONLY way that it has a possible effect, is when he knows it to be true. So, what should you do to get to this point? Start working towards the possibility of divorce like it is your ally...because it WILL be if his behavior does not change.

I think you handled all that really well, tbh. You didn't start this latest interaction... she did. She knew your WH was supposed to be NC and she called him anyway. And then she insisted on keeping him on the phone for as long as she could.

He "says" he hung up when she started getting upset. I don't buy it. I think he's too weak to do that.

I think your instincts are on point here. What he's describing doesn't mesh with the guy who came bouncing in after that phone call. Why was he in such a good mood if the call ended with her getting upset?

I also think your instincts are good regarding his comments about "closure" and her complaints about your plans to expose her to the OBS. He's not taking what he did seriously enough if he still thinks the OW deserves his defense or his kindness. That's typical, because to see the evil in her, he's got to be willing to see it in himself. And eventually, he needs to. He can't fix what he won't see.

I think you're doing very well. Keep standing up for yourself. Right now, you have nothing to lose but an unrepentant cheater. He's not sorry yet.

I’m PROUD of you for standing up for yourself.

Rock on! Do not feel bad about calling the OW.

In a nutshell your H just continued the affair with that last phone call. As I said in my prior post — he CHOSE to speak to her at length. It was re-opening their "connection" and his addiction to her is apparent.

I can tell you from experience my H was in the same place as your H. He "ended" the affair with a 75 minute phone call. Hmmmm……I was very suspicious and he still kept saying he wanted a Divorce even though the affair was "over".

Like my H and my experience, you can see your H’s affair is not over. Your H just proved that he will talk to the OW and put your marriage in jeopardy to satisfy his need for validation and an ego boost. Hes adducted yo the affair — that is the best way to describe it.

Your H disrespected you.

Your H lied.

Your H is deep in the affair fog.

You need to be prepared that they are taking further communication to a hidden app or some other method you cannot trace.

I’ve been in your exact situation. I survived it but had to endure false reconciliation and dday2.

But I can tell you on dday2 when I told my H I was D him I was not joking. I did not willingly R and I had one foot out the door for at least the first year of R (after dday2). I have never given up my plan B and I am financially prepared no matter what happens in my future.

PS on dday2 I didn’t care whether he ended the affair or not. I was done. I didn’t believe a word he said and I did the hard 180 for months. I went so far that unless the kids were home for dinner, I did not eat with him or speak to him.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:53 AM, Tuesday, May 24th]

Based on what happened, you should make it your life's work to get in touch with OBS this week. Do not warn your husband and hire a PI if you have to. But you need to tell obs as immediately as humanly possible.

I agree that he thinks you'll let him rugsweep this and won't leave him no matter what. The things he said yo you have my jaw on the floor. I'm furious for you. He is hurting you more on purpose and it is very much AP and him vs you.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 10:57 AM, Tuesday, May 24th]

I don’t think you have much to work with at this point. I would inform the OBS and then go get yourself a divorce attorney, have him served and start a hard 180. Either way, you can stop it, but it seems likely he continues down this path, so you are just getting your headstart now.

Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself. As you did and that's great.

However, that is separate from your husband standing up for you and your marriage. THAT is not happening. And that means you are nowhere near R.

He is placing her needs over yours. He's clearly grieving the affair and his AP and that too takes priority over you and your marriage.

You don't deserve that, at all. It's horrible and cruel and frankly, beneath you.

I agree with the advice to start moving toward yourself and away from him. He is not worthy of you right now, act like it. Value yourself enough to protect yourself. Show him your worth.

If it were me, I'd tell him that he has betrayed again and it's clear from his actions and explanations that his heart and mind are somewhere else. Go. I release you. I'll be contacting an attorney for a consultation. I'm going to figure out my rights and start planning my future. I won't be with someone who does not put me first. Not ever, but especially not after 34 years and a massive betrayal.

Then 180 him. See a lawyer.

Contact OBS.

When the consequences start coming, you can see how he responds and change course, but he will not change course right now because reality has not inserted itself in his affair. Be that reality.

Sending strength.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 5:09 PM, Tuesday, May 24th]

You can probably nip this in the bud by informing the OBS.

Why so hesitant? The best way to end an affair is to expose it.

BTW, AP/WH are not entitled to closure. My WH dumped OW on D-Day. She did make a couple of futile attempts to contact him, he cut her off at the pass.

Why force an end to the A? I'd argue that it's best to give your H rope, and if he hangs himself, so be it.

Actually, I would not say the A is still ongoing. I think it's stopped, though your H may start it or allow it to start again. He's still deep in a WS mindset. IMO, you're right in thinking he's not ready for R.

The main reason for telling OBS is that the A is info they should have.

*****

It was bad. Now that I'm calm, do I regret it? Kind of. Sort of. Not really. Oops my bad.

Gently, that reads like passive-aggressive pretending you accept a message that you don't really accept. Good for you!

Most of us think it might have been better for you not to have left that message, but we could be wrong. This is what stands out for me: You did it. You've owned it. You're ready to accept the consequences. That's really good work.

And part of me wishes I had done the same with W's ap.

Great job on standing your ground. As to the call to the AP, I understand. When we did our NC call to the AP & she started asking questions, I was yelling curse words at her.

He did look at the phone before he answered it.

Do you know anybody that DOESN'T look at their phone before answering?

He did recognize the number and answered it anyway.

Otherwise, he would have waited until he got home & returned the call.

Well, I only told her because I would want the benefit of being told if you didn't know about the A and someone was thinking about contacting you.

This goes into the SSCS file - stupid stuff cheaters say. Is it wrong to say this kinda made me chuckle? If there's no A in the first place, you wouldn't have to worry about the OBS contacting you.

The closure line is pretty classic, too. There shouldn't have been an "opener" in the first place for him to need closure. The closure needed was her legs.

Sorry he still has his head up his a$$.

I do agree that I need to contact the OBS. I know his name and their address, but that’s all. Perhaps some of you can give me ideas on how to find his phone number or email address? I’ve searched everywhere I can think of and it’s almost like he doesn’t exist. His Facebook page looks like he never uses it. I created a LinkedIn account and found him there. Can I send him a message without him accepting a connection with me first? I’m not sure how it works. I’ve looked up people search sites. I can only find their street address. I’ve been able to see his past employers, but not his current one. WH mentioned that OBS was unemployed and recently got a new job. I haven’t been able to find the name of the company. The only thing I can think of doing is to send a snail mail letter addressed to him. But she could intercept it if she’s on the lookout for such things. Any ideas?

I have decided that I will be reaching out to a family friend for help. WH has a college friend who became a priest. We’ve both known him for nearly 40 years. They play role-playing games in a group together, so WH still sees and speaks with him often. I’m going to explain the situation to him in confidence. I’m sure he’s dealt with affairs in his congregation. I’m going to ask if he would talk to WH as a friend and help him wake up. So far, he’s had no accountability to anyone but me. I think it’s time for some exposure and input from other people. Our friend is a safe person to involve due to his vocation. I also feel like he will provide me some comfort.

How many connections has he got on LinkedIn? If quite a few then he’s active there so send him a message, yes you can message him without being a connection.

You can also go to the post office and send a letter to him that requires his actual signature.

When you send the message on LinkedIn you can send it on Facebook too, my husband’s FB looks like it isn’t used but he does use it.

Unfortunately your WH told the AP you are looking to contact the OBS which means she’ll watch like a hawk and try to intercept any communication.

I mean you could also turn up at their house I suppose…