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Respectful dialogue about Covid

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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 9:40 AM on Saturday, January 22nd, 2022

Sisoon shared:

More than half of the 236 million people who have been diagnosed with COVID-19 worldwide since December 2019 will experience post-COVID symptoms -- more commonly known as 'long COVID' -- up to six months after recovering, according to researchers. The research team said that governments, health care organizations and public health professionals should prepare for the large number of COVID-19 survivors who will need care for a variety of psychological and physical symptoms.

Now that’s a bold claim, more than half of 236 million people! I had to read it for myself.

57 studies with 250 351 survivors of COVID-19 met inclusion criteria. The mean (SD) age of survivors was 54.4 (8.9) years, 140 196 (56%) were male, and 197 777 (79%) were hospitalized during acute COVID-19.

This from their findings. If something seems odd, it should. I don’t know where any nation is seeing 79% of COVID cases ending in hospitalization. In Canada I believe it be about 6%. That in itself should say all you need to know about the study. I should have stopped there, but maybe I was missing something, so I didn’t. Depression, social anxiety, ptsd and sleeping disorders among the mental health complications. That must be hard to pin on COVID alone, but what does this layman know.

Anyway the math was easy, take 250000 people, find that half suffered longer than six months, ignore that 79% were hospitalized, expand that to the total world case count at the time of the study, boom 118 million people. But that doesn’t look scary enough, so let’s say more that half of 236 million to really stress 236 million instead.

Note, this isn’t a comment about long COVID itself, just the study.

[This message edited by Loukas at 10:09 AM, Saturday, January 22nd]

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 12:52 PM on Saturday, January 22nd, 2022

I am happy to see you aren't having it too bad DevastatedDee. Boosting the immune system with extra doses of Vitamin D and Zinc has been shown to help. I will be praying for you (((HUGS))).

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 12:59 PM on Saturday, January 22nd, 2022

Thank you, WTBHA. I'm making sure to eat lots of fruits for sure.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 2:08 PM on Saturday, January 22nd, 2022

Feel better Dee!!

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 2:39 AM on Sunday, January 23rd, 2022

Thank you, Zebra!

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5083   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 2:59 AM on Sunday, January 23rd, 2022

Oh no Dee. Hope you get better soon. So sorry you got sick.


I had to pick up meds today. At the pharmacy a lady was ahead of me in line. I didnt see the front of her. When the employee came to the counter to help her he asked her if she had a mask, she wasnt wearing one. She said no and she was only going to be 2 minutes and it was such an inconvenience.

She ended up being way longer than 2 minutes because they couldn't find her prescription.

I was at the 2 metre marker. Moved back a few more feet as soon as i heard she had no mask and glad i did. She was coughing and her voice was hoarse. rolleyes

Now im worried about maybe being exposed to covid.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 3:31 AM on Sunday, January 23rd, 2022

Hell. Even if she knew 100% she didn't have COVID, it takes a lot of nerve to be maskless while hoarse and coughing right now. FFS wear one out of basic consideration for everyone else. That's how I got it, though. My daughter's coworker came in to work coughing and hacking and didn't wear a mask. So she got it, I got it, my son got it. We tested at home, but tested too early apparently and thought we had dodged it. Hopefully us being masked while out did some good to protect others when we didn't know we were infected.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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ISurvivedSoFar ( member #56915) posted at 3:32 PM on Sunday, January 23rd, 2022

Yep I found the home tests don't pick up early stages of COVID - at least that's how it worked in my house. DD tested after she was past worst of it and it was positive. I tested in the first two days and it was negative but positive that's what I had - circumstances of course.

On masks, well I just don't get it. I understand it is an inconvenience and not very comfortable - especially now as I double mask since I've had COVID. But geez think of someone else please. Have some consideration for your fellow human.

Sorry DragN. Hope it doesn't hit those in your home.

DDay Nov '16
Me: BS, a.k.a. MommaDom, Him: WS
2 DD's: one adult, one teen,1 DS: adult
Surviving means we promise ourselves we will get to the point where we can receive love and give love again.

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 9:35 PM on Sunday, January 23rd, 2022

At home rapid tests suck balls. They tend towards only testing positive when you are actively contagious. That's fine if you are wanting to know that, not so fine if you are trying to tell whether or not you have covid or something else. Omnicron is particularly tricky to get accurate results. People test negative and think it must be (flu/allergies/?) and go on with their lives and end up going out in public being covid contagious.

The long covid studies are a mess. Many of the early ones were done with those hospitalized only. That's part of why the results range from 5% to 60%. What we do know is that of those that get seriously ill with Covid, a good portion will be suffer effects for months to years. Some will have permanent damage to their lungs. NPR had a good article on this back in November.

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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 6:40 PM on Wednesday, January 26th, 2022

This is a very comprehensive update from one of the three epidemiologist pages that I follow. I can’t link to the page but am a subscriber and she very generously makes the newsletters free and encourages subscribers to share the newsletter.

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It looks like Omicron has peaked in the United States and in many countries across the globe. Case patterns may uptick with the introduction of subvariant lineage, BA.2, but with a little luck we will largely be on our decent. And I can’t help but notice my inbox piled with great questions: Is this the end? What’s next? How do we prepare?

It’s taken me longer than I want to admit to gather my thoughts. These are warranted, simple, legitimate questions with very complex answers. So, for what it’s worth, here is my attempt…

Is this the end?

In order to know how this will end, we need to look at how other pandemics ended. First, recognize the last part of that sentence…pandemics end. Every epi curve comes down. This pandemic will end, too. Hold that fact close to you.

However, “pandemic ends” look and feel very different depending on the time period, the global response, the individual-level response, and the virus itself. Broadly “pandemic ends” can be placed into three categories:

Faded away. There have been several viruses that… faded away. An example of this was SARS. It started in 2002 and while it was mainly concentrated in Asia, it did spread across the world. A short 1.5 years later the SARS pandemic ended. The virus was stopped largely due to an effective, global public health response: Testing, isolating and quarantining, and restricting travel. These strategies were particularly effective because of the intrinsic properties of the virus: Symptomatic people spread SARS. So, if someone was sick, they knew it and isolated. This is unlike SARS-CoV-2 where we have many asymptomatic people spreading the virus. If the globe worked together, very early on, we could have eradicated SARS-CoV-2 through public health mitigation measures alone. But, this option has long gone.

Vaccines. We’ve stopped other viruses through universal vaccination. For example, in the mid 1940’s, polio killed ~60,000 people a year which equated to a case fatality rate of 15-30%. Then in 1955, a 90% effective vaccine was introduced and people lined up for the vaccine. This largely got polio under control and by 1979 it was eradicated in the United States. Polio is still around in small pockets around the world, but I’m optimistic it will be eradicated globally soon. Smallpox is also a textbook example of eradicating a virus through vaccination. It takes time though. And teamwork. If the globe works together, we could possibly eradicate SARS-CoV-2 with vaccines. (Now that we have numerous animal reservoirs, though, this is close to impossible).

Endemic. Other pandemics end by going into an endemic state, like the 1918 flu. During the first two years of the 1918 pandemic, case fatality rate ranged from 10-20% and caused more than 50 million deaths worldwide. Over time, the virus attenuated; it became less severe. Today we still have descendent strains of the 1918 flu floating around but the case fatality rate is ~0.1%. And, as a society, we’ve accepted this level of mortality (even though we don’t necessarily have to). Some have even used the flu as a benchmark during this pandemic to define “mild disease”.

The vast majority of scientists think an endemic state is the future of SARS-CoV-2. I agree. However, there are a number of misconceptions about what “endemic” means, making it the most misused word of the pandemic (after “herd immunity”). Just because endemic contains “end” doesn’t means this is the end. This isn’t game over; this doesn’t mean we will have zero cases; it doesn’t mean a flat horizontal line here on out. It also doesn’t mean there will be no harm and no death.

Instead, endemic means a “steady state”; static; no huge waves; no statewide crisis; no calls for help from physicians on the front line. Importantly, endemic does not mean no suffering. As Dr. Aris Katzourakis— evolutionary virologist— eloquently stated:

“A disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria killed more than 600,000 people in 2020. Ten million fell ill with tuberculosis that same year and 1.5 million died. Endemic certainly does not mean that evolution has somehow tamed a pathogen so that life simply returns to ‘normal’ (…) Nor does it suggest guaranteed stability: there can still be disruptive waves from endemic infections, as seen with the US measles outbreak in 2019.”

We are not in an endemic state right now with SARS-CoV-2. We are experiencing state-wide and nation-wide swings. The virus transmission is not stable. Our hospitals are overwhelmed. We’re seeing disruptions in almost every part of our society. But when we do reach an endemic state, there will be no declaration. There will be no “game over” front page headliner. It will happen slowly. And we won’t know it happened until it passed. So this leads everyone to the next question…

What’s next?

This virus will continue to jump from person-to-person and it will mutate. We may have another wave, but we may not. The presence, timing, and height of that wave are going to be dependent on a few things:

Omicron infection will help, but we don’t know for how long. By the end of February, Omicron will have touched 36-46% of Americans. This level of immunity, combined with vaccinations, will, no doubt, help build our immunity wall. While infection- or vaccine-acquired immunity isn’t perfect, it does help protect against severe disease by shortening the time of infection and reducing the amount of virus that replicates in the body.

But Omicron induces a very different disease pathway than previous variants. The timing and height of the next wave is partially dependent on the durability and strength of Omicron-induced immunity. How many people will actually mount strong protection from Omicron? How long will immunity last? Will it be shorter because Omicron was more mild? Or will it be about the same as before (median 16 months with large variability)?

The virus will mutate, but we don’t know how. Right now, SARS-CoV-2 is mutating every two weeks. And the virus will continue to mutate. Unfortunately, viruses don’t change to become less severe. It’s true that Omicron is less severe than Delta. And, it’s an obviously attractive scenario if this virus continues to mutate to be less and less severe. But it’s not guaranteed. That’s because mutations are random. There is no high-level thinking. The virus’s only goal is to survive and the only thing that keeps the virus surviving is transmission—the ability to continue to infect and jump from person-to-person. If the virus mutates to be more transmissible and it just happens to also make people very ill, that’s the version that will spread because the strategy is working.

There has to be a global response. If the pandemic has taught us nothing else, it’s that this globe is connected. What happens in Southern Africa (Omicron), the UK (Alpha), Colombia (Mu), United States (Iota), China (Wuhuan variant), impacts us. Our priority needs to be not only national domination of the virus, but also global domination of the virus.

The best way to do this is to get vaccines to people who need them: The unvaccinated. Yes, focusing on when and how to boost is important, but not nearly as important as getting the unvaccinated vaccinated, which includes ~3 billion people. How do we do this? We share vaccine patents so other countries can manufacture and distribute the innovative biotechnology. This will improve reach. We also need to invest and create different types of vaccines. For example, Dr. Peter Hotez just created a non-profit, pediatric COVID19 vaccine—CORBEVAX— that uses old but proven vaccine technology that can be manufactured and distributed easier across the world.

And while supply and access to vaccines is incredibly important, it’s not the entire story. Mis- and dis-information campaigns have infiltrated trust in science and medicine across the world. For example, the vaccination rate is very low (30%) in South Africa, but not because of supply, instead people just don’t trust the vaccines. We need to work very hard to build trust in science on a global level.

So, the next wave will be dependent on infection-induced immunity, how this virus mutates, and how we respond as a global community. But, to some degree, it doesn’t matter…if we prepare.

How do we prepare?

We strengthen our tools. And we use them wisely.

Increase vaccine uptake. We can’t transmit a virus we don’t have. Vaccines reduce transmission in several ways. So, we increase our booster rate. Concurrently we define and recalibrate our national goals of the COVID-19 vaccines. Do we need an Omicron-specific vaccine? Probably not. But, how do predict what the next dose should look like? How do we better support next generation vaccines, like the pan-coronavirus super vaccine? We also decrease our unvaccinated rate by approaching hesitancy with empathy and open ears. But, we cannot have a “vaccine only” approach.

Continue to wear masks. Masks, on average, reduce transmission by 56%. This isn’t great, but it’s not nothing. If we upgrade to N95/KN94/KF94, we reduce transmission up to 95%. And, this includes kids in school. There is zero evidence that masks harm, physically or psychologically, kids. There is evidence, though, that masks reduce transmission among kids in school.

Invest in better filtration systems. HEPA filters reduce transmission by 65%. One HEPA filter equates to 2 windows open (2.5-fold decrease in transmission). This will undoubtedly help keep businesses, schools, childcares open if, and when, another variant arrives.

Scale up antigen testing. We need to empower people to break transmission chains. So, we need better access to tests. Four antigen tests per home free of charge was a great start. But we can’t stop there. There are blaring equity issues and we can do better. Once people get them, we need to let people use them. There is no reason an antigen test can’t be used for test-to-stay policies at schools and childcares. There’s no reason why a PCR must be used for clearance.

Increase supply of therapeutics. Therapeutics are a game changer for this pandemic. While they can’t prevent infection, they are very effective at preventing severe disease. They will alleviate stress on our health systems. The drug is going to change how we, as a society, look at disease— COVID19 will be treatable. By April we will have a million doses. By September, we will have 20 million doses. But is that enough supply? The federal government needs to take the risk and assume that it’s not enough. We shouldn’t just ramp up supply of the Pfizer pill (which has limitations), but also support other companies to test risky, innovative science. Antivirals are difficult to make, but our goal should be 2-4 more therapeutic options in 2022.

Strengthen surveillance: Much to my surprise, COVID19 metrics largely held up during the Omicron wave: test positivity rate was followed by case trends, which was followed by hospitalizations and deaths. The raw number of cases or tests are not to be trusted, but the pattern is still solid for surveillance. I suspect this will change with more and more antigen tests, though. This means we need to strengthen our surveillance system proactively. Develop a systematic, national reporting platform in which antigen test results can be documented. We should also implement wastewater surveillance. But, teams need to be created and supported across the nation to do this.

Communicate. We desperately need top down communication. The CDC needs to come out from hiding and let their experts talk. We need weekly updates. But, more than that, we need a plan. We need to develop and communicate offramps and goals. If public health officials don’t, then other people will. And, when we don’t like their plan, we have no right to complain.

We also need bottom up communication. People need their questions answered. But, more importantly, we need to hear their perspectives. Only a multidisciplinary approach will get us out of this pandemic. Different perspectives will offer innovative solutions.

We aren’t all going to agree and that’s okay. In fact, the push and pull is necessary to move forward. But we need to listen. Listen is different than hearing as it requires effort: active, intentional, and focused. This means opening hard-to-read Op Ed’s with a curious mind. This means digesting an opinion aired on a late night talk show. This means having empathetic conversations with unvaccinated people instead of dangerously suggesting to just withdraw care. For the other side, this means recognizing our reality and privilege is not everyone’s. In fact, it’s not even the majority. So, we need to listen to the perspectives of immunocompromised who are being left behind or those with long COVID. Or healthcare workers’ lives that continue to be forever changed. Or parents of unvaccinated kids under 5. Or families that have to decide between buying dinner or buying antigen tests. Or those around the globe without access to any vaccine. All of these groups are struggling right now because we all want this pandemic to be over too, but we aren’t collectively taking the necessary measures to actually end it.

If we can do all of the above, we then keep society open while slowing down mutations in an equitable and wise manner. On an individual-level, we pay attention to transmission on the ground. If transmission is high, tighten up behaviors: wear masks inside, consider cancelling big events, use antigen tests a lot, trust positives, and isolate. When we are at low transmission, loosen up restrictions: we eat inside restaurants, we take off our masks, we let our kids play at indoor trampoline parks. We ride the waves while, simultaneously, pushing towards an endemic state.

Bottom Line: There will be an end, it’s just not how you pictured it. The journey to reach stasis is dependent on the virus, our population-level policies, and our individual-level decisions. It will depend on how we prepare and if we do it wisely. Together this will determine how many more people die, how many people get long COVID, how long the journey takes, how many mutations we have, how many vaccine doses we need, and, importantly how we keep sane and united. Our road to an endemic state doesn’t have to be bumpy. Whatever that path is, though, we will get to the end eventually.

Love, YLE

“Your Local Epidemiologist (YLE)” is written by Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, MPH PhD—an epidemiologist, biostatistician, professor, researcher, wife, and mom of two little girls. During the day she has a research lab and teaches graduate-level courses, but at night she writes this newsletter. Her main goal is to “translate” the ever-evolving public health science so that people will be well equipped to make evidence-based decisions. This newsletter is free thanks to the generous support of fellow YLE community members.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please note: Dr. Jetelina is not associated with any pharmaceutical company or government agency. She backs up every claim with validated, peer reviewed research but I’m not able to include those links. She’s easy to find and you can determine for yourself if you find the info credible, if not palatable.

[This message edited by HFSSC at 12:42 PM, January 26th (Wednesday)]

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 10:51 PM on Wednesday, January 26th, 2022

That was an interesting read, HFSSC.

This part for sure:


"A disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria killed more than 600,000 people in 2020. Ten million fell ill with tuberculosis that same year and 1.5 million died. Endemic certainly does not mean that evolution has somehow tamed a pathogen so that life simply returns to ‘normal’ (…) Nor does it suggest guaranteed stability: there can still be disruptive waves from endemic infections, as seen with the US measles outbreak in 2019."

I haven't particularly enjoyed COVID even with a "mild" illness. This isn't a cold or a flu. It is weird. It has weird symptoms. Yes, fever, sniffles, sore throat, coughing, all that is within the realm of cold or flu. But it doesn't stop there. It's like you can feel it fucking with parts of your body that colds don't fuck with. The brain fog is a thing. The fatigue is above and beyond regular sickness. Weird stuff like feet that stay cold all night long no matter the temperature or an Australian Shepherd sleeping on them for hours. Insomnia no matter how tired or relaxed I am. Reduced smell and taste. I am very glad that I didn't get this unprotected.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5083   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 1:34 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

Dee,

You are SO right. And we (As in the collective medical communities around the world) still have so many unknowns as to the long term effects of COVID infection. What we do know is frightening to me. What I've discovered personally sucks ass.

I have never been a smoker. I've maybe smoked 5 cigarettes in my life. Never had asthma. But since COVID, every cold I get turns into a month of coughing, wheezing and ultimately bronchitis. There are still taste and smell distortions.

Maybe it's because I grew up with nurses and have been a nurse for so long that I have more trust in "mainstream medicine." IDK . It just baffles me that so many people would rather take their chances with getting sick with a virus with so many documented and proven risks. For me, I am not impressed with a 98% chance of surviving. I wasn't before I experienced Long COVID and I am certainly not impressed now. Nobody would book a flight on an airline which crashed two planes out of every hundred. Or eat at a restaurant which advertised only two out of a hundred diners died from eating there.

No disrespect intended, especially toward anyone who has participated in this thread. I'm just completely baffled.

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 8712023
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 1:43 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

If I had 99% chance of winning on a lottery ticket, I’d be at the store before I could finish typing this.

posts: 1862   ·   registered: Mar. 29th, 2015   ·   location: The school of hard knocks
id 8712024
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 3:08 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

If I had 99% chance of winning on a lottery ticket, I’d be at the store before I could finish typing this.

Of course you would, Loukas. But if you lost, the only thing you risk would be price of the ticket. You're saying you'd buy that ticket if you were told that two of the tickets would end your life. Maybe instantly, but maybe only after weeks/months of suffering. Alone, because your family wouldn't be allowed to visit. Another 25-30 of them, you win a prize. But you would also have to get sick Really sick. Maybe 2 weeks, maybe 4-6 weeks. All sorts of random stuff going wrong. Maybe those things will clear up in a week. Maybe they will be permanent. Who knows? But you get your money. The remaining tickets are free of any conditions and you get your money.

You would still buy that? Because that's a pretty fair comparison.

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 8712026
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 4:55 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

Perspective is everything. You want to see the what ifs. What if this horrible thing, what if that horrible thing…. Reality says me personally, COVID wasn’t going to kill me. The chances are so low I’m not even intelligent enough to do the math.

Roughly 5,200,000 Canadians in my age group. 480,000 Canadians contracted COVID in my age group. 235 Canadians died to COVID in my age group. Then there’s always the question of what was the health condition of those 235 Canadians. So I mean first I’d have to actually get COVID, which is only about 10% of my age group, only then do I have a 0.05% chance of dying from COVID, but likely even lower since I don’t have any health conditions. Well accept being a smoker…

I ended up as one of the 10% to catch the VID. Not recommended, but I smoked right through it. Maybe I shaved some years off the back end there, maybe I didn’t. But I wasn’t sick for a week, or two or four. I had one night of fever and an achy body the next. Lost my taste and smell a week later for about a week and a half, that was dull. That’s what the science said for me and my age group from the get go. COVID is pretty low in the list of things trying to kill me each and every day. Sure I couldn’t be guaranteed, but chances were really, really, really good that I’d be ok.

That is the problem with the one size fits all solutions to COVID. You see for my age it isn’t COVID itself that will cause me to suffer, it’s what people have taken from me in the name of COVID that has had the biggest impact over the last two years and who knows how many more to come. The solution was far worse for me. So yeah, I’d buy that ticket, with my life on the line.

[This message edited by Loukas at 6:52 AM, Thursday, January 27th]

posts: 1862   ·   registered: Mar. 29th, 2015   ·   location: The school of hard knocks
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 8:54 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

I realize we’ve been going back and forth over this topic, HFSSC. I’m pretty sure I’ve read in the past how much you enjoyed singing at your church. How COVID has (had?) taken that away. Myself, I’ve only been able to attend my home church twice in the last two years. Mandates and lockdowns have kept me from the joys of a shiver from a Sunday morning Worship.

COVID has affected us all, just differently.

posts: 1862   ·   registered: Mar. 29th, 2015   ·   location: The school of hard knocks
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 9:58 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

Loukas,

Thank you so much for that last post.

It is so easy to forget both our differences and our common ground. We are so immersed in our own experience that we become blind to others’ perspectives and the common values that we might share.

Where I live, the mandates and recommendations have been largely ignored. My state has a LONG history of rebelling against federal oversight and “interference”. My church never closed for a single service despite offering online services which quite a few people did take advantage of. Masks were never required or even suggested. I have been the only person in the building wearing a mask for months at a time. I know multiple members who left or just continued online because they did not feel safe without masks or distancing in place. I have pleaded with our pastor and leadership to no avail. It’s “everyone’s right to make decisions for themselves.” I don’t know if I will ever recover from this. I still haven’t gone back to singing. Not because I can’t sing now, but because it’s simply not safe in my setting.

So it’s hard for me to grasp your situation. But your last post opened my eyes. It’s easy for someone to throw out, “Just go to another church.” But it’s not so easy. Both of us have lost our safe place, our faith home. But we also haven’t been led to seek out another one. Where you are that might not even be a possibility. So even though our experiences differ in the details, our basic outcome has been the same. I’m so sorry for all of the losses you have experienced because of COVID.

Me, 56
Him, 48 (JMSSC)
Married 26 years. Reconciled.

posts: 4971   ·   registered: Sep. 12th, 2011   ·   location: South Carolina
id 8712039
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ISurvivedSoFar ( member #56915) posted at 10:38 AM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

I have to agree with Dee. COVID isn't like anything else I experienced and I had a mild version but unfortunately my smell and taste have been impacted. They way I am able or not able to smell these days lead me to believe this virus definitely f'ed with me neurologically. That is upsetting and there isn't anything I can do now since I already had it and am impacted.

If I had a choice I would have taken even more precautions. I didn't get it from being careless necessarily (DD unwittingly brought it into the house). Full disclosure I was not happy about taking the vaccine although I did it willingly. Now that I have had COVID I really feel like it has changed my body forever.

I'm not needing sympathy as I realize my long term impact pales in comparison to others. I just think it is easy to dismiss this as fear based until you are impacted either directly or through loved ones. I wouldn't want anybody to be adversely impacted by something that we could help to prevent or lessen the impact.

TBH, I'm quite done with COVID. I'm ready to get back to my life, as I'm sure many others also feel. I'm thinking after this round that we'll reach herd immunity and even if we don't it is time to get back to normal. Perhaps more rigor around testing and contact tracing would be helpful.

For the record, I did read an article the other day that indicated the Feds are holding back on providing monoclonal antibody treatments to states because they claim the CDC has deemed it ineffective against Omicron and instead they are providing a different treatment option. So @W2BHA I am with you that we should provide all options and allow the medical community to decide how/when to use each in their treatment of patients.

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 12:38 PM, Thursday, January 27th]

DDay Nov '16
Me: BS, a.k.a. MommaDom, Him: WS
2 DD's: one adult, one teen,1 DS: adult
Surviving means we promise ourselves we will get to the point where we can receive love and give love again.

posts: 2836   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2017
id 8712040
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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 12:57 PM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

Reality says me personally, COVID wasn’t going to kill me. The chances are so low I’m not even intelligent enough to do the math.

Roughly 5,200,000 Canadians in my age group. 480,000 Canadians contracted COVID in my age group. 235 Canadians died to COVID in my age group. Then there’s always the question of what was the health condition of those 235 Canadians. So I mean first I’d have to actually get COVID, which is only about 10% of my age group, only then do I have a 0.05% chance of dying from COVID, but likely even lower since I don’t have any health conditions. Well accept being a smoker…

Its jot just about quantity of life but quality of life.

Chances are covid wont kill you.

But why play Russian roulette with the rest of your life and the real, devastating, debilitating after effects so many "survivors" are experiencing.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25896   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8712045
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 2:31 PM on Thursday, January 27th, 2022

That is the problem with the one size fits all solutions to COVID. You see for my age it isn’t COVID itself that will cause me to suffer, it’s what people have taken from me in the name of COVID that has had the biggest impact over the last two years and who knows how many more to come. The solution was far worse for me. So yeah, I’d buy that ticket, with my life on the line.

I get that. I do get it. I went nearly 2 years with the other effects of COVID before I got it myself. I understand we all lost things during this. It was worse for you to limit yourself than to get COVID. I have absolutely no doubt that's true. For me, I would give up the things I have in the past two years as a trade-off to limit other people getting this illness who wouldn't have the experience with it that you did. It wasn't about whether or not I liked the experience of the very few moments of lockdowns we had or taking a shot or wearing masks or limiting social activities. My liking it or not didn't really impact whether or not I thought I should do those things. It wasn't about my personal risk factor. It was about not exposing others who either had higher risk factors or would be in contact with people who did have higher risk factors. We're not separated in life according to our risk factors. We're all in the mix together. I have beloved family members I haven't seen in two years because they're high risk and haven't traveled for holidays because some of the lower risk people aren't taking precautions. That sucks. At least one is likely to die before I see him again and that is awful to me. That will be something that hurts me badly. And yet, had he been less careful he'd probably be dead already. No one is getting out of this unscathed either physically, mentally or emotionally. None of this is fair to anyone and I don't see how you make it fair.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5083   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8712063
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