SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Has your wife read any book on what to do after an affair? There are a few good one out there - if she’s interested.

Not yet, Steven has suggested two that I'm putting together in a list of things I expect from her. Note, this is not the same sort of list that she had earlier. They are "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal from your affair”. I think those are good for a start.

If you read my tag line my H’s 2nd Affair was devastating. First was strict you an EA. Second was EA turned PA. He wanted a D and kept telling me for six months he wanted out. Then change his mind. Then change his mind again. I was like a yo-yo.

I cannot stand the yo yo feeling and I want off this ride. I'm not putting up with it anymore.

Until dday2 and I learned he was cheating the whole time and I thought we were reconciling. I finally decided I was no longer in limbo and living in hell. I told him to leave and I was divorcing him. He left me no choice. I was executing my plan B and he no longer had any say in my life.

He was blindsided. He never expected me to stand up to him. He loved the attention and two women fighting over him. That ego boost was the thing he needed.

Until I quit his game

.

I think something similar might be going on with my wife.

He immediately begged for another chance. I said no. He started doing everything he could to make amends. I mean serious action was taken. It took six months before I felt myself change to be honest. But he hung in there even though there was no guarantee from me I would not divorce him.

It’s been six years. We survived it. We are happy. I am shocked we did survive this and I’m happy that my H has made permanent changes and recognizes the mistakes he made.

That's good to know and I'm very happy for you. I have not seen any indications of hope for this outcome.

Your wife has been given an opportunity to reconcile. IMO she is foolish for not grabbing the bull by the horns and doing everything possible. But it’s her choice. And it’s hard to watch someone you love make the wrong choices but you cannot live in a one sided marriage either.

I lasted six months in limbo and false reconciliation before I decided it was him or me - and I chose me. I have no regrets on any decision I made b/c if we had divorced I would know I gave it 💯% best effort to make it work.

I'm glad things worked out.

Two points - don’t linger in limbo for too long. It’s bad enough you know you are there but staying there is akin to living in hell. Second point is that despite the odds people who want to change can and do. It takes work and determination but your W has to choose to want to commit to the marriage AND dig deep to make amends. Not just one day but every day. She has to find the strength and grit in her - no one can do it for her.

I hope this helps you.

It does help and I appreciate it. My wife has just given me words. I would need to see if she actually was doing the work to change. I have significant doubts. I also don't know if it matters at this point.

Ok, so now I read all your posts. Sorry about that.

And sorry for the confusion on the physical aspect. I just think your wording was vague.

No, no worries - it was - I went back and corrected it. I was so focused on what she and I had talked about I wasn't considering how others would read it.

Anyway, like I said, you have this legal requirement for a year separation.

I think you should tell her you want to start the clock on that now. That if she truly does love you like she says and not want to lose you, she will not give you a hard time in initiating the legal separation and actually work with you on it.

Yes, I agree.

Then I see no harm in telling her that if she wants a chance to rebuild what she destroyed, it starts with getting into therapy with her own counselor. Tell her to research it today and call around and find one who specializes in Infidelity. Tell her they must specialize in infidelity and she needs to show you that they do. And you can even tell her you want to briefly meet with the IC at her first or second session. Or at least talk to them on the phone.

She's already doing this, although she's going through her work and they don't have specializations. I think this is a good idea though.

Honestly LostOne, you should do the same for you. I think you will need that support over the next year. Please consider doing that. I think you will find it very helpful.

I think I agree with this.

Then I will tell her that after a month of at least 4 sessions of IC you guys can sit down and discuss if you should start MC.

As I said, you have this forced 1yr separation, you might as well use it for some good. But you won’t make the decision on MC right now.

True.

Finally I would stress to her that rebuilding starts with NC - NO CONTACT - and she has to prove NC every day. That you understand that you know she still thinks fondly of the POSOM and you still haven’t heard her say one negative thing about him or aren’t even close to making you feel that she loves you more than him, but re-stress that she has no chance with you, today, tomorrow, next month or at the end of separation, if she still needs that guy in her life.

Yes, I've stated this and I'm putting it in the list - I've taken some of what you've suggested and what other's have. She has said some negative things about him and she's stopped defending him. Not nearly enough negative things for my taste.

If she is in contact with him, she is still having an affair and therefore still destroying her marriage.

So take her up on her offer of transparency. Tell her you want her to prove to you that she has blocked him every way they have communicated. Not just unfriend him in FB, but block him. Block texts in her phone. Shut him out every way possible.

Yes, this will be a given.

Let her know that if she can’t do that then you have little more to discuss.

Where my head's at right now is what do I want. I'm listening to you even though it's kind of against my current headspace. What I mean is that I don't see a way forward with her - but I acknowledge that I'm on a roller coaster and things could change. I acknowledge that I'm not in a rush. This part is hard because I just want to jettison the whole thing and physically separate any way possible.

I think the advice you have gotten here from me and all the other experienced posters the last 10 days has shown you that you have much more leverage, that your options become much more wide open to you, when you take a strong stance and state exactly what you want and need.

So there is no need to stop that now. Honestly there is no need to stop that ever. You can only feel safe giving when you feel that you are getting, so it’s probably best to make that your mantra.

I would agree. It doesn't really feel like leverage though - it feels more like acknowledging myself and my own needs.

I want to tell you something. I would do anything g for my wife. And if there were a friend that made her feel uncomfortable that person would be removed from my life. I can say that without hesitation because I know that she would absolutely do the same for me.

But if that were not the case, if she started to hang out with unsavory men, and not seem to care how it hurt me, I’d tell her exactly what I need to stay in the relationship, and start to move on until I saw and heard it.

It’s simple to say, yet hard to start doing, I know. But it’s being honest. Honestly and communication are the most important things in a relationship. And it’s the same when that relationship is falling apart. Even more so.

So keep it up. You are doing well. You will find happiness on this path one way or another.

Thank you and I agree with you. I'm finding out how important communication is.

Where my head's at right now is what do I want. I'm listening to you even though it's kind of against my current headspace. What I mean is that I don't see a way forward with her - but I acknowledge that I'm on a roller coaster and things could change. I acknowledge that I'm not in a rush. This part is hard because I just want to jettison the whole thing and physically separate any way possible.

There's no reason why you can't do that. You could find a 6-month rental, start the nesting strategy, and then just see how it goes. I would point out though that the longer a physical separation persists, the more likely it is to become permanent. One or both of you may become accustomed to being apart and develop a preference for it.

That said, once the old marriage is destroyed, the litmus test becomes "would I choose this person again?". And sometimes, that's a hard question to answer when they're in your grill every day.

I can't really describe how to know whether R is the right choice or not. My story is similar to FirstWife's and along the same timeline too. My WH went on something of a Craigslist binge though, multiple partners with varying degrees of emotional attachment, the last of which became highly limerent. I came out of the gate swinging for D. It was all he could do to slow me down. And even then, I caught him breaking NC within the first 30 days. We had been married more than 30 years before all this. And man, I was WRECKED. My whole life gone up in flames, the path ahead, obscured by smoke and debris.

But I still can't describe for you what makes R an option. Yes, of course, we look for signs of remorse and for eager cooperation on the part of the WS. But no one here can tell you what YOU want, not today, not tomorrow. Sometimes, infidelity is simply a deal-breaker. I thought it was for me. In all the years which led up to actually experiencing it, I would have said "no way". When it happened though, I found myself open to exploring it. But some people find the opposite. They can't imagine anything their spouse could do which would kill the love, but then they find the love is gone, like it had never existed at all.

TIME sorts it all out. Time, and taking whatever space you might need. I do have a book suggestion for you though... What Makes Love Last?: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal by John Gottman. In it, he does a thorough study of Trust. Trust ends up being something like an onion, with many layers encompassing many aspects. What I found when I completed the rather lengthy questionnaires was that despite answering questions in the affirmative, like "has your spouse ever cheated?" and "do you think your spouse might cheat?", my trust metric was still quite high. I believed in other aspects of his trustworthiness, his financial responsibility, his care of the children, whether he would look after me if I was sick, things like that. All in all, it's a good book with quite a bit more to say about relationships on the whole. I recommend it.

Strength to you.

There's no reason why you can't do that. You could find a 6-month rental, start the nesting strategy, and then just see how it goes. I would point out though that the longer a physical separation persists, the more likely it is to become permanent. One or both of you may become accustomed to being apart and develop a preference for it.

That said, once the old marriage is destroyed, the litmus test becomes "would I choose this person again?". And sometimes, that's a hard question to answer when they're in your grill every day.

That's the fucking truth. Would I? It's a hard question. I don't know, I feel rushed but I know I'm not. The mixture of feelings is so intense.

I can't really describe how to know whether R is the right choice or not. My story is similar to FirstWife's and along the same timeline too. My WH went on something of a Craigslist binge though, multiple partners with varying degrees of emotional attachment, the last of which became highly limerent. I came out of the gate swinging for D. It was all he could do to slow me down. And even then, I caught him breaking NC within the first 30 days. We had been married more than 30 years before all this. And man, I was WRECKED. My whole life gone up in flames, the path ahead, obscured by smoke and debris.

I think the thing that bothers me the most (today, at least) is just how she absolutely did not care for my well being. Even after finding out. She's starting to, supposedly, but is it enough?

But I still can't describe for you what makes R an option. Yes, of course, we look for signs of remorse and for eager cooperation on the part of the WS. But no one here can tell you what YOU want, not today, not tomorrow. Sometimes, infidelity is simply a deal-breaker. I thought it was for me. In all the years which led up to actually experiencing it, I would have said "no way". When it happened though, I found myself open to exploring it. But some people find the opposite. They can't imagine anything their spouse could do which would kill the love, but then they find the love is gone, like it had never existed at all.

It's something I've got to figure out. I can't wrap my head around it at the moment. Everything emotion in my core is telling me that even if she changes I'm not going to be able to stand it. Is that temporary? Is it permanent?

TIME sorts it all out. Time, and taking whatever space you might need. I do have a book suggestion for you though... What Makes Love Last?: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal by John Gottman. In it, he does a thorough study of Trust. Trust ends up being something like an onion, with many layers encompassing many aspects. What I found when I completed the rather lengthy questionnaires was that despite answering questions in the affirmative, like "has your spouse ever cheated?" and "do you think your spouse might cheat?", my trust metric was still quite high. I believed in other aspects of his trustworthiness, his financial responsibility, his care of the children, whether he would look after me if I was sick, things like that. All in all, it's a good book with quite a bit more to say about relationships on the whole. I recommend it.

Sounds like a good book.

Strength to you.

I appreciate it.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, it was physical - she admits it and has told me about it.

Yeah, that was baffling for me, too.. like "at what point did Lost say it wasn't physical?" kind of baffling.

As a general observation, you are switching between trying to do marriage counseling at home and preparing for a divorce. Your discussions with her, while shedding light on things in general, are going to give her the impression you are mutually making progress.

IC before MC, any other order is kind of a waste of time. But you know that...

Lost,

How do you decide what to do about anything before you confirm two things

DID SHE FUCK HIM THE OTHER NIGHT AND LIE TO YOU AGAIN?

HAS SHE MAINTAINED NO CONTACT.???

you are I believe less than 72 hours from when supposedly she broke up with him. You do not have a clue how it occurred or what was said, and you have absolutely no reason to believe from what WW has told you about noT thinking she could resist staying in contact.

Anyone would be confused. my suggestion still is to get to the truth BEFORE you do anything remotely connected to reconciling with her.

She is not a cat, and doesn't get nine lives.

Yeah, that was baffling for me, too.. like "at what point did Lost say it wasn't physical?" kind of baffling.

In fairness I think I wasn't clear about something - the face to face meeting after New Years where she supposedly broke it off. That was what I was referring to with regard to tending to believe her. I'm still not sure, btw. That said, I think the way I worded it, it could be read as the entire time. I edited the initial statement.

As a general observation, you are switching between trying to do marriage counseling at home and preparing for a divorce. Your discussions with her, while shedding light on things in general, are going to give her the impression you are mutually making progress.

I feel like I am making progress - but probably not the type she wants. That aside, you might be right.

IC before MC, any other order is kind of a waste of time. But you know that...

I agree - she's already in IC.

Well, if you do decide to give her a chance, one privilege that needs to go is her trips to the casino. No more casino. She can gamble on line from home.

Has she said why she felt like hurting you to say good bye to him face to face?

Maybe ask her point blank, "Why didn't you do anything until I started divorcing you? Does that sound like someone who loves me?"

Kind of thing that really strikes to the heart of a WS. The other one is, "So you stopped loving me during our marriage, your own words. Why would I trust you love me now? Growing old together didn't seem to mean love." I think I am quoting some things you have typed in here.

Well, if you do decide to give her a chance, one privilege that needs to go is her trips to the casino. No more casino. She can gamble on line from home.

I don't think she actually likes gambling....

Has she said why she felt like hurting you to say good bye to him face to face?

No - her POV was that she had to find her own way. It's bullshit.

Maybe ask her point blank, "Why didn't you do anything until I started divorcing you? Does that sound like someone who loves me?"

That's a good question.

Kind of thing that really strikes to the heart of a WS. The other one is, "So you stopped loving me during our marriage, your own words. Why would I trust you love me now? Growing old together didn't seem to mean love." I think I am quoting some things you have typed in here.

It sounds like you are. I've asked versions of why would I trust you? She just apologizes or says she doesn't know - that I shouldn't because she doesn't deserve it and is a horrible person.

No - her POV was that she had to find her own way. It's bullshit

Just chiming in, I liked the lesson in this and feel that people don't say something like it enough:

Just because it's "your way" doesn't mean it isn't bullshit, they aren't mutually exclusive. A part of growing up is realizing this and adjusting, she hasn't apparently.

Your emotions are normal Lost. As you get more clarity, you tend to become more self supporting and somewhat indifferent. That’s called ‘taking your life back’ and it’s a positive thing. I also agree with you and others who’ve recommended starting the divorce process. It can be stopped at any time. I also believe that finding a 6-month place to live will allow you to determine what you want your future to be. My ex was similar to yours in that she’d say she was going to work on herself, it would last a couple weeks, then she’d slip back into her old habits. It was exhausting for me because we’d always come back to regaining the same emotional ground over and over again. I was devastated when she drove the final cheating nail into our marriage but over time I’ve come to realize the incredible blessings of not having the anchor around my neck. As always, I wish the best for you.

One more add on to the tsunami of comments and advice.

No matter what you do, never accept the "I was trying to end it" canard. She gets no points for that cliche lie.

In an affair of this magnitude, you don't try to end it. You end it. "This has to end...unless my husband is gone Saturday" just does not get it.

I hope you let her know what a slap in the face this is to you.

If not, next time she tries to go with this fairy tale, shut it right down. It is controlling behavior of the first order.

"Wife, you know that is a bald faced lie and completely disrespects me and insults my intelligence. You have already told me you were in a no holds barred fuck fest for 18months. You loved every minute of it until you got caught. Saying that you tried to end it shows me you have not understood a thing I have said. It continues to make you the victim. Do not speak to me about this again unless you are ready to admit that you are lying to me. Pretending that you were too weak to stop betraying me and the kids is maddening."

Yeah I’m curious about why she didn’t do shit until I told her Godmother.

I also like the question about the load of shit about how hard it was to break up when she left her husband and kids once or twice a week to go fuck.

That said today has been off. She asked what she could do and I sent her a list - probably fairly standard. It was long. She said it wasn’t unreasonable but a lot to process.

That’s about it. I got home, went to my room & she remains downstairs. I’m waiting for her to come up - I know she will because she doesn’t want to tell the kids tomorrow. I’m sure that’s where the bulk of her sorrow is from.

I just want to thank everyone, you all have been more than helpful in my time of need. I have some good friends - one in particular who I’ve vented everything too. I feel like I’ve shared my soul with him over the past few days and he’s always been there. I wish he wasn’t 1/2 way across the United States though, but whatever.

I just feel this overwhelming sense of dread. I know I’m going to see her and I know what she’s going to say (well, the topic anyway). I know/feel that she’s not truly remorseful.

I just feel kind of trapped right now. I’m too tired to go out, and it’s still going to be a while before I can move out or whatever I end up doing.

I just feel kind of trapped right now. I’m too tired to go out, and it’s still going to be a while before I can move out or whatever I end up doing.

This is where your self-care comes in. If you're tired, try to get a bit more sleep. Remember that we're dehydrated before we even feel thirst. Eat what you can. Avoid alcohol.

If you're not ready to talk, don't. If she comes to your door, tell her to email it to you and you'll look when you're feeling better. Feeling "trapped" is normal. But that fact is that none of us are truly trapped. Our choices are sometimes unappetizing and not at all our first preference, but choices remain. The important thing is understanding that we must one day take full ownership of whatever choice we make. So, take your time with it.

Emotional judo.

No - her POV was that she had to find her own way. It's bullshit

"I respect your need for this, just as I expect you do the same for me in our pending agreement and separation."

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 8:05 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

What do you do for exercise, brother?

When I wasn't sure whether my current marriage was going to survive a non-infidelity related hardship, I found solace in kickboxing...beating a heavy bag until my entire body was exhausted.

It reduced my anxiety level (which is normally high to begin with) to manageable levels.

Find a physical outlet, brother. I promise it will help.

another view on depression google

Popping Pills for Depression: A Buddhist View

What do you do for exercise, brother?

Getting back into power lifting. Eh, more power building, but whatever.

When I wasn't sure whether my current marriage was going to survive a non-infidelity related hardship, I found solace in kickboxing...beating a heavy bag until my entire body was exhausted.

Funny you should mention this. I struck up a conversation with a young dude and he was going to do some heavy bag training. I asked him a few things and he helped me out. My hands are torn up, but I feel like if I keep in mind what he was saying I'll be better. That said, holy shit does it wipe you out.

It reduced my anxiety level (which is normally high to begin with) to manageable levels.

Find a physical outlet, brother. I promise it will help.

It does.

So my update is probably a step backwards, but I feel mentally better than I have. Maybe I'm fooling myself or maybe I'm getting my emotions in check. I still feel stuck. It's like, I want to find out about the refinancing, but things are just taking too long. I'll call my mortgage people on Monday. They haven't gotten back to me with my various responses.

Anyway, she didn't come up to see me. Instead my head got the best of me and I went to see her. I asked her a few things. She still (even today) hasn't agreed to the list I gave her. It's as though she's half assing everything. Which makes me think this is a 'false' reconciliation. I have no desire to go through that.

Anyway we talked and I said that we were going to tell the kids tomorrow. She said something to the effect that she thought we were going to try and make progress. I said I haven't seen her try or anything. We ended up arguing. Her Godmother called in the middle of things. She's a good woman - but she is her family. I've known her for decades. She thinks my wife majorly fucked up and has been yelling at her. She's been telling me that she would understand whichever way I go. Her mother went through this and it tore the family apart. So she understands.

Anyway, she asked me if I was just telling the children because I was mad. I said no, I don't want to be wrapped up in my wife's lies. She said that if the separation isn't immediate then why not tell them closer to when we part ways? I said I don't want to lie to my children. At the end I was heated. Things calmed down a bit though.

In the morning I called up to get some help in the matter with a therapist that I'd talked to before and she said there was no rush and that unless things got bad around the house maybe it would be better to tell the kids once things calmed down.

So while my wife isn't really doing much in the way of what I told her that I need, she won't leave the house unless I say so or I'm with her. She doesn't want to upset me. I don't think she really gets the point, but whatever.

Yesterday we all (her, I, one of the kids and later both) went out to get some stuff for that we need for the house. It was awkward. I wasn't sure if I should do that or not, to be honest. I think I shouldn't have.

My feelings is that she might be thinking about it logically, but that only leads me to believe that she'll pine away for him. I don't want that to be my business though - I'm going to keep trying to figure things out, keep trying to get a hold of myself, and keep trying to keep myself busy and raising my self esteem/emotions/whatever else.

She was asking and asking for counseling for time and that sort of stuff. I decided to look up a counselor, I know most people here would say that it's a mistake and it probably is. Anyway, I want to go and see an outsider's take on the two of us, plus get some stuff off my chest.

Ultimately I feel like I've stumbled here, but this is difficult, and I just have to get through the next few weeks/months. I have to get to an out, then I'll be in a better position.

I'm watching movies with my daughter. She's the most wonderful little woman on the Earth. I hope she doesn't grow up to do the shit her mother did. I told my wife that, or something to that effect. It was a few days ago, I was angry - I said something like I hope you don't mess up our daughter and she becomes like you. I may have written that here.

I don't think it is a bad idea to not tell your children until you are actually moving out but my one caveat would be never lie to them. If they ask you why you sleep in another room, if there is something wrong between you and Mom or something like that. Tell them the truth.

Not all MC are equipped to handle infidelity. Many advocate rugsweeping. Many don't think the BS should ask questions. Many believe the WS is entitled to secrets and privacy.

Going to an MC with an unremorseful WS, could be a disaster. Especially if you get an ill equipped MC. If that happens, and you are determined to attempt reconciliation, she will never give you the answers you need. She will never become the remorseful WS she needs to be,in order to have a successful reconciliation.