SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If your set on doing MC, you need to interview them asking them their experiences with infidelity and holding the WS responsible for their actions without blameshifting or gaslighting. This is a must for you. As others have said, most but not all MC promote rugsweeping and blameshifting of As giving some blame to the BS. Hence why most MC never work.

Make sure you are wrapped and gloved for a heavy bag. Bone bruises on your knuckles will stop training for 2-4 weeks. As me how I know...

As for your marriage, it is not false reconciliation unless you are actually pursuing reconciliation.

That said, you are still in limbo. It is understandable, and there is no rush for a decision, but until a decision is made, your feelings will likely be much the same.

It is an unfortunate part of the process, and until you come to a decision, it is a necessary thing to go through.

As for your WW, I don't know that she packs the gear to give you what you want. The funny thing is that this is the person she has always been...but now your wife goggles have been removed and you see her for what she is...which is (at best) less than ordinary.

Until you reach a decision, it is hard to advise you...but at this point, she is clearly not a good candidate for R, even though it is apparent you wished she were.

Stay strong, and don't let her sell you on shit.

These guys are right. A bad MC can unwittingly cause more damage. I'm not saying you shouldn't try it. I'm just agreeing that you should interview carefully. Marriages don't cheat. People do. Adultery isn't a marital problem, it's a character problem. The problem with so many MC's is that they're working off the old "unmet needs" model. But of course, NOTHING we do (or fail to do) can MAKE someone throw away their own stated value system and adopt a lifestyle of deceit. That's character. The propensity for cheating and lying already existed. It's not "unmet needs" where their partner failed to scrub the toilet out often enough or didn't give them a compliment every day.

You begin to see the problem. The MC is split, trying to keep both of you engaged and trying to make both of you feel heard and appreciated. But only ONE of you threw the marriage away. Only one of you behaved with deceit. Only one of you risked their spouse's health and wellbeing unilaterally. It's rare to find an MC who is willing to call bullshit. Right now, the house is still on fire and your WW wants to see an interior decorator.

All marriages have problems. Some of those problems might be serious enough to cause a spouse to leave. But none can cause a spouse to throw away their entire belief system and cheat. You either believe in faithfulness and honesty or you don't. People who say they do and then act in the polar opposite are only giving lip service to those beliefs. This is the gap in character.

Again, I'm not saying don't go. MC's can do a wonderful job of opening up communications. But what I am saying is that you don't put up with any guff off your MC. The time for sorting marital problems was BEFORE the adultery. And that time might come again if R lasts long enough to effectively deal with the betrayal. But anyone hands you a list for cleaning up your side of the street is not noticing that your WW has firebombed it. You're sitting there in the ash and rubble of her betrayal. THAT's your side of the street right now. What's she going to do to clean it up?

Don't be afraid to say 'no' to anything you don't agree with. And never leave the office of your new MC allowing validation of your WW's position to stand. IOW, if they infer that your WW wasn't getting enough attention and needs more, you call it what it is right in front of them, a deflection from poor character. A person with a strong belief in honesty doesn't act outside of that value system because they didn't get enough attention. You'll likely feel like every session is a fight, but don't allow any ganging up or even a jot of blame-shifting. If you decide to do this, do it from a position of strength and certainty in YOUR values. Be verbal. Don't allow bullshit to stand or to follow you home.

ETA: I just want to point out this bit again...

"Marriages don't cheat. People do. Adultery isn't a marital problem, it's a character problem."

This is the litmus test. Take a pass on any MC who can't agree with that.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 3:20 PM, January 12th (Sunday)]

Thank you all - I'm asking the therapist(s) a bunch a questions now. Are Gottman therapists good? Anyone know?

Thank you all - I'm asking the therapist(s) a bunch a questions now. Are Gottman therapists good? Anyone know?

Love Gottman.

For a quick peek at one of his most recommended articles, punch into your browser, "the four horseman Gottman". It's a really good look at negative communication styles which can serve you well in all relationships.

Just make sure that the therapist you choose agrees with your litmus test statement.

Love Gottman.

I found a site that 'finds' Gottman certified referral network. I'd post a link but I can't.

I sent an email to one of the people. Asking a bunch of questions including if they used the unmet needs model.

The one I was looking at has online sessions. I'm not sure if that matters or not.

For a quick peek at one of his most recommended articles, punch into your browser, "the four horseman Gottman". It's a really good look at negative communication styles which can serve you well in all relationships.

Just make sure that the therapist you choose agrees with your litmus test statement.

Thank you - I've sent the ones I've looked at emails with a bunch of questions.

I largely feel this is a waste of time - I think she's still in love with the other douchebag and that she 'broke up' with him out of a sense of duty to the kids. If she did, that is. I hate this shit.

She seems depressed right now.

Whatever the case, I'm tired of this shit. I want to eject but I realize it's early. I may always want to eject. I may not. I don't know.

Make sure you are wrapped and gloved for a heavy bag. Bone bruises on your knuckles will stop training for 2-4 weeks. As me how I know...

Lol, I think I know. Ha! That said, I do have wraps, but I'm still learning. My hands are cut up, but not on the proper knuckles - so I was hitting wrong.

As for your marriage, it is not false reconciliation unless you are actually pursuing reconciliation.

Fair enough. I'm not sure what to call it.

That said, you are still in limbo. It is understandable, and there is no rush for a decision, but until a decision is made, your feelings will likely be much the same.

It is an unfortunate part of the process, and until you come to a decision, it is a necessary thing to go through.

Yes you are right. I feel hamstrung by circumstances though. I wish this shit had happened 15 years ago. It would be so much easier.

As for your WW, I don't know that she packs the gear to give you what you want. The funny thing is that this is the person she has always been...but now your wife goggles have been removed and you see her for what she is...which is (at best) less than ordinary.

That's probably true. Maybe I'm attributing the deaths that hit her to having effected her too much? I don't know.

Until you reach a decision, it is hard to advise you...but at this point, she is clearly not a good candidate for R, even though it is apparent you wished she were.

Stay strong, and don't let her sell you on shit.

That's what I'm thinking. She's not a good candidate. Maybe things will change, maybe not. I just have to keep looking at how to eject.

Beware of the "unmet needs" folks in the therapeutic community, as they use unmet needs as a license to cheat. Unmet needs is a bunch of BS because the betrayed spouse ALSO had unmet needs and didn't go out and betray the family to get them met somewhere else. There Is. No. Excuse. Ever.

In other news, I watched "I Kill Giants" with my daughter. She's really great. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have watched the movie because it's about a girl who is dealing with a lot of issues and the ending was, well, I won't spoil it. It was decent though.

My kids, boy (8), girl (12) are creating cosplays for their DnD characters. They are only doing little things. I told them that they should start small, maybe just do the 'boots' and then once those are finished move on to something else. The idea is that they'll get their 'costumes' together by the time the Renaissance Fair comes around in August.

I know it's probably nerdy, but my daughter came up to me a few months ago and said she wanted to play DnD, which was something I used to do in High School and right out of High School. I think Stranger Things brought it to their attention, I'm not sure. Anyway, I said that sounded cool. There was a club after school that played, but it was very stressful and they didn't get anywhere. So I offered to be the DM - create the adventure or whatever for them. We've played a few sessions, both my children and my daughter's two friends. It can be stressful at times but everyone seems to enjoy it. I had asked my wife to play but she said no. Instead she was going to the 'Casino'.

Anyway I'd written up about 50-60 pages and my kids really like it. We haven't played in a while. Everything just feels tainted if that makes sense. I know I'm a dork, bring the pain.

Beware of the "unmet needs" folks in the therapeutic community, as they use unmet needs as a license to cheat. Unmet needs is a bunch of BS because the betrayed spouse ALSO had unmet needs and didn't go out and betray the family to get them met somewhere else. There Is. No. Excuse. Ever.

I did some reading on it. Halfway through I'm like, okay this makes sense as far as general marriage issues - yes, they should be addressed - but then I got to some bits about how it explained affairs and that sort of shit.

No. Reasonable adults do not just drop their morals (paraphrasing ChamomileTea). I also feel like it's what my spouse was trying to rationalize already. Quite a few times now she's ignored the last 5-10 years of our relationship in order to have a narrow view of how our relationship was in the 2000's.

Further, if that's the case, then why the fuck didn't I cheat? It's not like she was GGG either, but I was willing to work and do what I had to. I've put myself through a lot of shit. I've stumbled, sure, but when it comes to the two of us I'm the one doing shit.

That aside, I do think she's depressed. Her Aunt, Mother, WorkMother, and Grandmother all died recently to each other. That's impactful - it does NOT excuse the affair, but it's impactful.

Didn't you say earlier that Dbag is unemployed and living with his mom? That's going to make it particularly difficult for your WW to prove she's had a genuine change of heart. The OM has no prospects.

That said, it's possible that the fantasy bubble has popped. That's what happened to my WH when he finally realized the OW was looking for a financial upgrade to her lifestyle. This disappointment came at about the same time he realized I was REALLY going to divorce him and everything that entailed. Pop! All of the sudden he couldn't really identify with what he had been thinking and why. It happens. That might not be the case for your WW, but it can't be ruled out either. Time tells the tale. The WS slips up, leaves clues. They're stressed with the impact of potential loss. And while it's true that sometimes they're just scrambling to save their home deal, for some the fantasy has unraveled. Just be careful to look for what's there, not for what you want to see, be it one way or the other.

Didn't you say earlier that Dbag is unemployed and living with his mom?

Not quite and I'm not 100% sure. The Dbag is unemployed and I think he's living in his father's house - his parents divorced because of his dad's cheating - his father was apparently a womanizer.

I can only wonder why he turned out how he did...

That's going to make it particularly difficult for your WW to prove she's had a genuine change of heart. The OM has no prospects.

Eh, he dates lots of women and cheats on them, that's his MO - but he's changed.

That said, it's possible that the fantasy bubble has popped. That's what happened to my WH when he finally realized the OW was looking for a financial upgrade to her lifestyle. This disappointment came at about the same time he realized I was REALLY going to divorce him and everything that entailed. Pop! All of the sudden he couldn't really identify with what he had been thinking and why. It happens. That might not be the case for your WW, but it can't be ruled out either.

I dunno. Maybe? We will see.

Time tells the tale. The WS slips up, leaves clues. They're stressed with the impact of potential loss. And while it's true that sometimes they're just scrambling to save their home deal, for some the fantasy has unraveled. Just be careful to look for what's there, not for what you want to see, be it one way or the other.

It will and you're damn straight about me looking for what's really there and what I want to see. Fuck, I think that's the scariest thing of all of this, you know? I have to know myself, I have to be real with myself.

I know I'm a dork, bring the pain

Can't. I still have Yu-Gi-Oh decks which would make a middle-schooler jealous from when my boy was growing up.

It's so important to PLAY with your kids, and to do it in a way that validates their interests, particularly when there's stress in the home.

Can't. I still have Yu-Gi-Oh decks which would make a middle-schooler jealous from when my boy was growing up.

It's so important to PLAY with your kids, and to do it in a way that validates their interests, particularly when there's stress in the home.

Ha! Nice! My kids have some Yu-Gi-Oh decks.

I know it's important and I really want to. I'm trying to motivate myself again. I am going to the gym, so that's good. It's like the one thing I can do consistently. I realize I have to do more.

LostOne

Funny, she wasn’t depressed when she was flicking her boyfriend and going out on dates with him. Only became depressed when you stopped tolerating it

She only stopped for the kids. The rest is bull shit . You can go to all the therapy you want. But , do you still care if she lied again about New Years Eve?

And having an OM that she was in love with a few days ago just a short drive away what’s the plan other than seeing a shrink to verify her actions . ? You’d like to have a dollar for every lied told you therapists .

You’ve got the cart before the horse. All she’s done so far is tell you she broke up with him . You have no idea if she’s broken NC , which she claimed she could not do

You need to watch her actions for longer and polygraph her before making any decision to cave and run to therapy with her online or anywhere

Funny, she wasn’t depressed when she was flicking her boyfriend and going out on dates with him. Only became depressed when you stopped tolerating it

In fairness she has been depressed - she's just less depressed after the dates and fucking around. She's been dealing with depression since her mother died. That's not an excuse for shit, mind you.

She only stopped for the kids. The rest is bull shit . You can go to all the therapy you want. But , do you still care if she lied again about New Years Eve?

That's how I'm leaning - it's all about the kids.

And having an OM that she was in love with a few

days ago just a short drive away what’s the plan other than seeing a shrink to verify her actions . ? You’d like to have a dollar for every lied told you therapists .

You’ve got the cart before the horse. All she’s done so far is tell you she broke up with him . You have no idea if she’s broken NC , which she claimed she could not do

You need to watch her actions for longer and polygraph her before making any decision to cave and run to therapy with her online or anywhere

Agreed. Her actions are what matters, not her words. Not her tears. Her tears could be because of guilty, the children, or a hundred other things.

LostOne

A couple of questions

(1)) you stated before you were asking her if she talked to him. Are you still doing that??? When she tells you no you ask her why you should believe that??? I would continue to press her to see if she gets pissed off and burts something out. You ate the shit sandwich , let her feel a little pressure. She deserves it

(2) I hope on your list you told her there is no more going to the casino unless you’re there and there is no more going out for drinks . You said she doesn’t like to gamble . She should not be anywhere near that casino and more importantly she should not want to go knowing how that will trigger you

Stay on the offense. It’s her job to convince you that she is stYing away from this guy. And you know this fucker was probably told she wanted to continue but couldn’t because hubby finally put his foot down. I don’t think anyone posting here believes she did it because she wanted to. He will for sure at some point take a run at her again

I would wait about a month and then hit her with a polygraph .

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 6:29 PM, January 12th (Sunday)]

I know it's probably nerdy, but my daughter came up to me a few months ago and said she wanted to play DnD, which was something I used to do in High School and right out of High School. I think Stranger Things brought it to their attention, I'm not sure. Anyway, I said that sounded cool. There was a club after school that played, but it was very stressful and they didn't get anywhere. So I offered to be the DM - create the adventure or whatever for them. We've played a few sessions, both my children and my daughter's two friends. It can be stressful at times but everyone seems to enjoy it. I had asked my wife to play but she said no. Instead she was going to the 'Casino'.

I apologize for being only tangential to the topic, but I played D&D as a teenager, and my son, unrelated to anything I did with him, picked it up years later in high school. My ex wasn’t home a lot back then (guess where?). So she totally missed him bringing friends home to play in the basement (and me cooking munchies, etc). So when she asked him what he wanted for Xmas he mentioned some 5e books. She called me to consult. “What is fifth edition, fifth edition of what?” “Dungeons and Dragons, just like he played at home all those years, remember?” She didn’t. I ended up purchasing it for her to give as present for him. I don’t do favors for her and maintain minimal contact, but this I didn’t mind doing. Wayward miss so many things.

Sorry for the thread jack. I fly that geek flag high.