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Lost

Less that 72 hours ago she was telling you she could not totally give him up and acted on what she was saying. Forget that the list is do able.

Your list starts with being able to believe that she ended it and it will stay ended and until you have some belief in that you are not going to heal

I try not to inject my story because this is about you not me. But I’m going to tell you what my wife did on her own without me specifically demanding it

(1) turned over her private journal going back years

(2) researched polygraph examiners before I asked for it

(3) turned over all passwords of the different e mail accounts she and all social media accounts

(4) totally ghosted and maintained NC

(5) gave up a long term activity that put her through college for free

And she took the pokygraph and passed all the questions.

There’s a start for what you need and it’s also doable for her .

Stop digesting her lists. It’s been less that 48 hours since she told you she was going out and ran right to his house

Her words don’t match her actions.

She’s a grown woman. No one made her do what she’s done. She did it because she wanted too. No magic here.

She wants R then let her work for it. She needs to start with the full truth and take full responsibility for her actions. Plus an NC letter she writes you approve and send.

R should only be attempted if specifics are in place and if that’s what you want. It’s a 2-5 year process with no guarantees. Otherwise you just stay together with a higher chance of a repeat. You’ve already had one. Don’t think it can’t happen again.

MC right now if you get a bad one (50/50 chance at best) could cause even more damage.

Timing of anything is on your clock. No one else’s.

Sorry you’re here. Continue to get strong and stay there.

Remember she’s a want not a need.

Good luck

2. More physical connection (at least working toward it) – less vanilla more rocky road (this can be on your terms, I know you said you are open)

Good grief. I don't know how you can read that and not draw comparisons between you and AP. That would've been the last self sabotaging statement my wife would've made to me.

I think your response is pretty simple - I see a bunch of words not backed up by actions, nothing changes until that does.

Ok. People here will justifiably bash her note. And yes it deserves it. She is not in any position to ask for anything. That totally sucked.

But I’m gonna stick with the glass half full side of things for now.

First of all, your stance you are now taking is the absolute right one. This message should show you that. So again, stay on this course and continue this approach of honesty and defining your needs.

You are right. You can’t do those things, even if you agree with them, because you are no longer in a relationship with her. And you don’t have to stop the request for separation and you don’t have to stop telling her how you feel just because she sent you this.

But, you do have something there to start working with.

You can decide for yourself if you agree and want to keep talking or if you need to just simply move on.

If you want to communicate here are my thoughts on what to say. But as always, it’s your life, you choose what you want to tell her.

Thank you for finally showing even a little bit that you hear me. The pain I am in, the heart break I feel about what you have done is real. It sits on my chest like I am having a heart attack.

So until you are willing to let go of the safety net and let go of the outcome and decide I am the love of your life and not that piece of shit.... until you see him as the piece of shit he really is for helping you destroy your marriage... then we only have one path. And that breaks my heart even more.

LostOne, take my advice and the good advice from others here and use it to shape that path. You can see how her tune changed some after you started this stronger stance. In my mind it’s the only way forward.

Let us know if you have any questions.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:26 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

Her words don’t mean much and won’t fix the destruction of this marriage or family.

Only her actions will count. So far you’ve received what ?

She wrote:

I never wanted to be anything other than your wife

Never? Because it seems like taking off your panties and inviting another man to put his dick inside you is an odd way to further that goal.

So she says, "She loves him, but knows it won’t go anywhere & that it’s the thrill, the rush, and the attention she wants."

Then she says she wanted to end it to the point she wanted to jump off of a bridge? Sorry, the bridge statement doesn't hold up unless it was after her Aunt and Godmother called her. If it weren't for them knowing she wouldn't have done anything differently. That's the beauty of exposure. It brings intense heat down upon the betrayer.

The real question with all of this is, can you live with the fact that your wife, the one who promised herself to you only, decided that you weren't paying enough attention to her so she had justification to spread her legs for another man?

You've been through a lot of pain at the hand of your betraying wife. You now know what she's capable of. You also know that she's lied to you over and over and over again. You know that she values the other man's feelings over yours. I hope you also know that she's probably left the door open for a relationship with the other man if things don't work out with you; that's why she wanted to do it her way, not yours. You should know that if you are to stay with her, you're going to be expected to meet her mentally draining emotional needs and if you don't and someone else does, she's likely to do this again. And I hope you know that once the kids are grown, she may decide to move on to another man anyway; you might only have value when associated with the kids. She might be considering the idea of being a single mother and is just avoiding the struggle; I'm sure that her Aunt, etc. brought that up in conversation, "How are you going to make it on your own with the kids?". That could explain why staying together for the kids sake is primary on her mind.

The idea that she has a list for you is also a red-flag in my thoughts. If she was truly remorseful and re-committed she wouldn't be giving you a list of things to work on. She'd want you back no matter what form you came in. If you fail at the list does that mean it's now your fault that it didn't work out? I don't like those odds.

Ultimately what you decide for your life is up to you. I can only hope that you choose to live your life free of drama, free of pain, and free of regret. You get only one life. Never allow anyone to make your life miserable. Choose the best for yourself. You're worth it. You have value beyond what you realize and certainly beyond what your betrayer will ever realize. Take care of yourself and know that children are resilient. Please ensure that you choose for yourself not considering your children in the equation. Don't place the burden on them for a decision to spend more years with an emotionally retarded wreck of a woman. You're better than that. I wish the best for you.

LostOne, take my advice and the good advice from others here and use it to shape that path. You can see how her tune changed some after you started this stronger stance. In my mind it’s the only way forward.

Very good statement. You’re strength is beginning to show. It’s also an attractive trait to have. No small thing in a situation like this.

Nice job.

If you want a true R I’d cut out letters, verbiage and such and just say “show me”. Nothing else counts for much.

I’m on my path out of this. It’s up to you to “show me”. If she can’t show you through her actions you don’t have much to work with.

You do need to take a deep dive and figure out what you want.

Upfront most just want them back without thinking what they got back but that will manifest itself over time. Right now you just don’t know.

I want to tell her that I can't think about reconciliation until I actually recover from this. Something like: I have to recover before we can think about reconciliation if that’s even an option. I have to take one day at a time. I’m not predicting nor promising anything with regard to the future. I see your list and I understand it. I’m still struggling with whether I believe you or not. There’s no point to trying if I can’t.

I feel like I'm not thinking clearly. My head is just full. Her list is completely doable. Not necessarily easy, but doable. But I don't feel close to that at all.

There's no reason whatsoever why you can't defer a decision until later. Honestly, I think it's a good opportunity for you to keep options open without making a commitment you're not ready for.

In terms of her list... it kind of looks like her choreographing a nice little "pick me" dance for you. You might want to defer that too. It's only been last night that she was still in contact with her AP. You don't owe her a timely response.

If you're amenable, you might tell her that you'll take her words into consideration. But if you do, it's YOUR timetable, not hers.

ETA: Forgot to point out that I think the way you described it above is a fine way to put it.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 10:32 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

Thank you Steven. My response (stuff changed of course):

Thank you for showing me that you’ve begun to hear me. The pain I am in, the suffering, and the heart break about what you have done is real. I feel the anxiety every day and I feel like a knife who’s blade is chipped that I’m grounding down to a nub to try to make sharp again. I’m crying in parking lots, I’m not eating a lot, and I’m not sleeping much.

What you are asking for is putting the cart before the horse. You sunk a knife into my chest and are now asking me to do a few things before you take me to the hospital while I’m bleeding out. If you had issues with our relationship, the absolute, absolute wrong way to deal with it was to after another man. You know this – you’ve said this. Now you have dropped the infidelity right on top of our relationship issues and we can’t get to those until we deal with this.

There isn’t a quick fix here. Recovery from cheating can takes years, not days, or even weeks or months. Years. Do you love me enough to see that through?

You say that you’ve broken up with him. How do I know that? Did I get to hear the conversation? If I was more important to you then him you would have included me in it. And if you really did break up with him - How do I know you didn’t sleep with him yesterday? How do I know you aren’t still talking to him? I can’t tell. You’ve been lying to me for months how do I know that’s true?

The worst part is you have shown me nothing that makes me feel you don’t love him. Everything you do shows me you care about him and care about him more than you care about me. Why would I want to be with someone who every day is going to feel that the love of her life has gotten away? And on top of that, a man that you seem to enjoy being physical with more than you enjoy being with me. That’s what your words and actions say to me.

As to your list, it’s a good one. I want those things too. We could have worked on those, but I won’t be in a relationship where I am the backup.

Your focus needs to be on proving to me that you don’t care for him. Your focus should be on the broken heart I have right now. I need that trip to the hospital. Until my heart starts beating again and I feel it filled with love and feel safe it’s not going to be traumatized again, there is no marriage to work on. I need you to push past your fear.

What we need is individual therapy right now, not marriage counseling. That can be down the road if I can work through this pain and you can figure out what made you cheat on me with the man you appear to still love. Then, I’d be willing to perhaps try and do that work. Our old marriage is dead but I’d be willing to try to rebuild a new one with you.

But right now I’m feeling like the backup, and DOUCHEBAG is in my mind is looming in the shadows ready reopen the wounds the moment I look away. I need you to see that how you are approaching this isn’t helping me. It shows me you are only willing to love me if you are assured I am willing to sweep it under the rug - I am not. So let go of the safety net and let go of the outcome and decide that I am the love of your life and not that piece of crap.... until you see him as the piece of crap he really is for helping you destroy your marriage... then we only have one path. And that breaks my heart even more.

a list of things I need from you to help me recover from this

The self-centeredness of this statement is mind-boggling. "this" that she needs to "recover" from, "this" as she calls it, is her infidelity. She did this. On her own. She brought another man into your marriage for what was it 18 Months on the physical side? She did that and you have to "help her recover"? BS.

You said you read some on the Wayward side of this forum right? Go look again. Look at the people over there that have been here awhile and have done things the right way. None of them would ever make a statement like this or a list like this. None. I wouldn't recommend she come to this site now unless you don't care that she read your posts but if she went on that forum and wrote out that list the good folks on there would rip her a new one.

Also just from my experience I don't see how you recover from the comment about your intimacy being vanilla. That is basically saying "I need you to start f***ing me like the AP." I'm sorry man that one will eat at you. Re-establishing a sex life after an A is hard enough and now she's laid this pressure on you to be as good as she thought he was. I don't know how you'd ever be able to perform with that pressure. It would kill me.

Also just from my experience I don't see how you recover from the comment about your intimacy being vanilla. That is basically saying "I need you to start f***ing me like the AP." I'm sorry man that one will eat at you. Re-establishing a sex life after an A is hard enough and now she's laid this pressure on you to be as good as she thought he was. I don't know how you'd ever be able to perform with that pressure. It would kill me.

For the record I don't think she means precisely what you think she means. For a period of several years in the 2000's the physical side of our relationship tanked. I had physical problems and we were barely intimate. I got myself healthy and things were back better than ever. It was not vanilla. Over the past few days I've had to tell her this because she always heads back to then. That's what she's afraid of, physically.

Of course, I could be mistaken. I will specifically ask her what she means.

I haven’t gotten through all the posts, but every time you say you will be telling the kids that “mom & dad are getting a divorce because mom fell in love with someone else,” I cringe.

No!!! You should state simply that when two people get married as your mom and dad did x number of years ago, they promise each other that they will only be with each other even when they get mad at each other or go through difficult times. They promise to not date other people or talk against their spouse or to seek out others to tell their private thoughts to. Your mom did not keep this promise to dad. Your dad found out that she has a boyfriend and has had this boyfriend for quite some time. Your dad is very hurt by this. And your mom has not wanted to give up her boyfriend. So your dad cannot stay married to your mom any longer because of this.

Saying mom fell in love with someone else sounds like it was accidental. Some romantic thing that she just couldn’t help. It was some mystical pull into this other man and meant to be and she just couldn’t help herself.

That sends all the wrong message to your kids. They need to know that marriage can be difficult at times but they are to stick by their spouse through thick and thin. Anything less is a wrong and bad thing to do. Simple as that.

[This message edited by abc123wife at 1:43 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]

I haven’t gotten through all the posts, but every time you say you will be telling the kids that “mom & dad are getting a divorce because mom fell in love with someone else,” I cringe.

No!!! You should state simply that when two people get married as your mom and dad did x number of years ago, they promise each other that they will only be with each other even when they get mad at each other or go through difficult times. They promise to not date other people or talk against their spouse or to seek out others to tell their private thoughts to. Your mom did not keep this promises dad. Your dad found out that she has a boyfriend and has had this boyfriend for quite some time. Your dad is very hurt by this. And your mom has not wanted to give up her boyfriend. So your dad cannot stay married to your mom any longer because of this.

Saying mom fell in love with someone else sounds like it was accidental. Some romantic thing that she just couldn’t help. It was some mystical pull into this other man and meant to be and she just couldn’t help herself.

That sends all the wrong message to your kids. They need to know that marriage can be difficult at times but they are to stick by their spouse through thick and thin. Anything less is a wrong and bad thing to do. Simple as that.

Shit that's a good point.

Lost One

Are you familiar with Judo? If not, it is (in a nutshell) a martial art that focuses on using your opponents force or momentum against them. Basically, if they push, you use grips and hips to throw them.

Emotional judo is very similar.

Every time she makes statements about how she needs certain concessions from you, as she effectively pleads for you not to divorce her, say something like this:

"Each time you say you need change from me before you will commit to ending your affair...each time you balk or place conditions at what I tell you must happen to begin affair recovery...each time you lay blame for your poor choices at my feet...each time you say what you can do rather than show me what you actually will do...only serves to reinforce that we are incompatible and divorce is the proper path."

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 1:57 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]

Very well said, abc123. Much better than the way I attempted.

Just making an observation about time... Today is the 9th of January. D-Day was the 3rd of January. In less than one week of time, your spouse has gone from:

She told me that because she was having sex with him (I found out, unprotected) she couldn’t betray me (?) by potentially having sex with me on the same day. She tells me she loves me & that she wants to grow old with me, but she cares about him too. She loves him, but knows it won’t go anywhere & that it’s the thrill, the rush, and the attention she wants.

To THIS:

I never wanted to be anything other than your wife and their mother.

So... active adulteress on the third, in love with the AP, to repentant wife and mother on the ninth who "always loved you". Mmmm hmmm...

It certainly is amazing what 6 days can do.

Your intuition is spot on with this thing, but I sense in your reaction the thrashing of a drowning man looking for a weed to grab to keep his head above water. You were correct to promise her nothing other than you will look at her proposals.

below is a list of things I need from you to help me recover from this and I need a list from you.

Oh, she needs the list again, now? She really isn't getting a basic message here. What about what YOU want?

This list thing seems to be something picked up from her counseling, and probably is the only thing she knows right now.

There are some reading material that would be beneficial for her, to help her understand more fully what you are going through, and how best to help you.

Perhaps another poster can inform. I am on my phone, and right now can't recall the author.

Best thoughts for you heading forward.

[This message edited by paboy at 2:58 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]

Also, I found out on the first, not the third - your point still remains though.

This list thing seems to be something picked up from her counseling, and probably is the only thing she knows right now.

It is. She's also getting some reading material that she's been researching to help herself.

There are some reading material that would be beneficial for her, to help her understand more fully what you are going through, and how best to help you.

Perhaps another poster can inform. I am on my phone, and right now can't recall the author.

Best thoughts for you heading forward.

I've sent her some stuff and a suggestion from one of the books in the Healing Library.

Don't send her anything from this site. This is your safe once. Don't share it with her.