SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thumos - if you followed the same advice you’re providing to Mr. F then you would be divorced.

I am advising him to act according to his own decisions, not yours and not mine. I respect his decision and I'm not going to show up here suddenly trying to sow doubt in his mind where none should be.

But yes, I would probably be divorced. I don't want him to end up in the same place as me.

I'm not sure I'd classify Mrs. F. as addicted to cheating. She progressed too slow for that. The truly addicted dive deep rapidly.

Addiction isn't defined by the pace of progression. Different substances, things, or activities will generally have different rates of progression depending on what they are.

Addicts are taught that they partake in their addiction because it changes the way they feel. That's an addiction-type generic principle.

Mrs F's case with extramarital relationships may not be exactly the same thing as getting drunk everyday, but she has, at least twice, been in a situation where she choose to change the way she feels despite knowing it was wrong and what the potential consequences were. That's what addicts do. She knew it during the first affair, and she certainly didn't forget during the second affair. And in counseling, she drilled down to conclude that she did it because she just likes it. And she's not sure it won't happen again... I'm not making this up, this is what was posted.

Her willing use of the burner phone was the most damning piece of information IMO. That removes any possibility of her getting to where she was by "mistake". That required willful acknowledgement to herself that what she was doing was wrong as soon as she used it.

To me, the 'what' is more important than the 'how.' If there were no burner phone, there are plenty of other ways to hide things. My point here is that she knew in both affairs that what she was doing was wrong, and in both affairs she was hiding it. And I believe she was perfectly sober while continuing both of these affairs for periods of time that could never be construed as a mistake. She knew this. She admitted to it.

I read her obvious distress in not finding brokenness outside of selfish and entitlement as a psoitive sign. There's never an easy fix but she was clearly looking for something to fix.

Positive? Not me. I will give her credit for being honest though; that could not have been easy.

I would give her more credit if she sought IC after her first affair rather than after being caught after a second affair.

What Mr. F hasn't disclosed is what she and her IC have done to short circuit future selfishness driven betrayals.

True, but what has been posted, in my view, hasn't sounded good. I do recall a more recent post where Mr F stated that he thought the chances of her cheating was, iirc, zero. I took that to mean that Mr F believes she 'learned her lesson and would never do it again.' I have a hard time with that kind of conclusion knowing that people that experience interventions (one way or another), then get treatment, stay clean by doing everything right, and then relapse.

I'd put her chances of not reoffending at this point about in line with the general populace. Maybe a little better. Trauma bites both ways in A and some WS do learn their lesson.

Given the description of emotional immaturity, I'm having a hard time giving her chances of staying clean above average. Of course, I don't really know, and I'm certainly not wishing for it. But I certainly have my doubts. And that says nothing about her past behavior and the damage it already did.

My two cents.

I am just so tired of this. All of it. It just sucks all your strength and energy out of you and spits it into a black hole.

If I could offer an advice to other newly betrayed - be decisive and don't let your WS drag you into some kind of trench warfare.

Because it's hell over here. Attrition warfare if you will. We are clashing here and there, but nothing major, I believe we both are waiting for the other to give up and say "I give up, let's have it your way!" It's all just so.. absurd. What the hell happened to our marriage? Why did she felt the need to blow our lives up in such a horredous way?

I spoke to my lawyer and if I decide to go the contested divorce way it might take up to year or two and it will cost a ton of money. I was advised to try to find a compromise. So that's what I have been doing for last few days but I am running out of ideas short of lying to her and pretending we will R but I want to D first. That's out of my character, but desperate times call for desperate measures or something like that.

Now we are just going in circles and I am running out of patience. I told her If she really loved me she would give me what I want - an amicable divorce. She says she loves me with all her heart so she can't give up.

I wouldn't call it walking away for good since we have two small kids, but yeah. I believe she closed that door a few months back

She's been offering any form of separation for quite some time. I do not see the point. We are basicaly doing a version of in-house separation at the moment, we have a decently sized house so it's been pretty easy. This way we can both have our own space without distrubing our kids lives with new homes, moving stuff and so on. I have no issues with us living under one roof

and yes, it's an Red dwarf reference. Best series in the universe

It was a multitude of reasons. But yes, in short it was the gaslighting and lying.

.Told her repeatedly, she sees it from the oposite point of view. If she loves me, she can't let me go. Again, that's the selfish part of her speaking here.

guess her previous acceptance and understanding of why a divorce was necessary was just yet another dishonesty.

I don't know Kindern. I believe she has a strong selfish tendencies, and I believe she struggles with this a lot and genuinly tries to fight it. I think she knows what to do but is just to week at the moment to overpower her selfishness to do the right thing. Same thing was happening during her A. I think it has nothing to do with deliberate dishonesty.

I had already seen her angry before this started over again. So I am good, I can deal with it. If I see no point of saying anything I just don't engage. It takes the wind out of her sails pretty quickly. I learned this while dealing with two toddlers and cheaters (or selfish people in general) are basicaly the same.

Sorry I try to answer all of you but it's simply not possible. Nevertheless thank you all for your advice and concern. It means a lot to me.

So I’m confused, Mr. F. The reason you give for not taking a decisive step and filing for a contested divorce is that it would take so long and be costly and so you’re advised to compromise. And you’re saying the compromise is to live separate lives under the same roof.

My question is what if you want to see other women? What if you want to spend more time with other women? What is you want to bring other women home? Will you feel free to do that? And if not, how is that like living separate lives?

Some facts:

1. The affair was highly physical. She just doesn't admit they had sex. They had a lot of parking lot make out sessions. Office kissing and groping. She admitted that he went inside her panties to 'feel if she's ready'. So definitely he was able to at least, put his hands insider her panties, touched her V and of course since he wanted to feel if she's ready then at least put a finger insider her V.

For the parking lot incident, he again was able to put his hands inside her panties and when he took her hand to feel his penis, she 'quickly took her hand back'... That's her story.

They had a lot of parking lot make out sessions and office make out sessions whenever they get the chance. Again, they were always together. So that makes it harder to believe that they never had sex.

2. They scheduled to have sex in his apartment. She chickened out after some making out. That's what she said.

3. They exchanged a lot of photos, most of the exchanges were sexy. She won't admit to sending nude photos. Again, that's what she said.

4. They were always together going to and from the office. They always kiss when he sends her home or vice versa. Again, that's what she said.

5. She had another affair 5 years ago with a colleague, and the physicality went as far as a 'hug'. Again, that's what she said. This affair only came up once the polygraph schedule was confirmed. She might have forced herself to admit to avoid one particular question. Which is 'did you have any affair prior to this one?'...

All these facts were gathered as time went on. These were never provided in a one-session talk. These were pieced together through her trickle-truthing. She doesn't admit to having sex because she knows that's a deal-breaker. Once she admit so having sex, no questions asked, divorce will be filed.

These 'truths' all came from Mrs. F. She can't provide the details from the phone exchanges because AP had her destroy it. He taught her how to do all those things they did because he was experienced in having an affair. AP had affairs on the side other than with Mrs. F.

[This message edited by beb252 at 11:44 PM, Friday, July 16th]

Mr. F you've made your decision. I honor it.

Don't get caught up in the sunk costs fallacy, woulda coulda shoulda, minimization of your situation, projection or straw man arguments.

You know what you want. You know what is right and healthy for you. Act accordingly.

I honor your decision.

I could have written those words.

I'd have added - and hereby do add - you don't seem all that resolved. Your description of what you're doing doesn't quite look like you've entirely accepted your decision.

That's OK. If you're not ready to act, you're not ready to act. You've made a lot of progress in a short time, and some people have forgotten that.

Most of all, if a post makes you question your decision, that's great - it just means you've got more work to do, and that's to be expected at this point.

Remember: you want the best possible decision for you, not the quickest. Too much is at stake to force yourself to act before you're ready.

If I'm wrong about your commitment to your decision, so be it. You can handle someone misinterprting your word.

Mr. Fibble - pardon me for asking this - I have tried to keep up with the details of this story through your two threads but I think I have missed something so I need to confirm.

Did your wife have sex with the OM (I would consider oral sex as sex) or was it just kissing and petting?

What made you decide to go from possible reconciliation to no way at all? (what one thing suddenly made you change your mind?)

Sorry, I will come back later with proper response to your questions but the good news is she signed the paperwork this evening and we will file sometime this week. Lots of drama, but it's done.

Well done sir in getting out of infidelity.

I hope you are in a good place mentally right now.

How is your STBX mentally?

Be there for the children, they are the ones that she never took into account during those lunches and kissing in his car!

One day at a time.

or was it just kissing and petting?

For those whose WSs kissed and petted it isn't a "just". That minimizes. Kissing and petting is a PA just as PIV is a PA. Their hurt is the worst they have experienced. If the "just" is a deal breaker for them then it's a deal breaker. Let us not rank the betrayal on a scale from worst to least.

Maybe I should have said kissing and groping both of which would have been initiated and maybe even forced by the POSOM. If the WW encouraged it, then it is another matter.

Maybe I should have said kissing and groping both of which would have been initiated and maybe even forced by the POSOM. If the WW encouraged it, then it is another matter.

I don't think whoever encouraged it matters now because they were practically lovers already. They did a lot of those kissing and groping whether in the parking lot, office and other places. They even scheduled to have sex in his apartment.
Mrs. F. didn't admit they had sex.

I wanted to write a long update detailing everything but I am kind of at a place where I see no point. The weekend was exhausting and I just want to be done with this all for good.

So I am going to tell you I appreciate all your messages of support and leave it at that.

But I want to adress on thing - I do not feel hatered or contempt towards my STBXW, I do not wish her ill, I do not feel any need to punish her. I just want to put this all behind us and focus on future. I just want to get out of infidelity so to speak.

The problem is, I think I knew from the beginning that infidelity (of any kind) is a deal breaker for me, but I did fight myself on that, I tried to convince myself of the opposite and to go against my own convictions. And it only brought me more pain and suffering. So I think it's time to stop.

Have yourself a good rest, Mr. F. Must have been an exhausting weekend for you.
Good luck on moving out of infidelity.

All the best!

I remember you being clear on this at the beginning. I thought with this clarity you would get out of this easily. Then you got confused. It was very normal, there was the person you were in love with, your children, your family. We can see that even people who have experienced much worse than yours experience this limbo instead of getting rid of it easily. Yours was truly a borderline; PA but not PIV, not huge lies after Dday but worse to be told. I remember saying before polygraph test, "If that's all that really happened, I'm giving it to her stupidity to lie". Indeed, the subsequent confessions were roughly equivalent to what you knew before. If everything was explained in one go, it wouldn't be so hard to digest. Maybe the result would still not change for her, but if there was a slight chance of change, it would only change that way.

My past experiences of infidelity have brought me to the point where I end the relationships at the slightest red flag. It's not just about infidelity, but if there's a habit in the future that I see I can't stand, I end it. I don't want to tire my mind with all this, to struggle with myself and SO. As someone who thinks this way, the simplest solution for me should be to suggest divorce. But I try to look at the events from the perspective of BSs and the concrete information they give as much as possible. So did I in your case. I didn't post much to avoid being manipulative in decision making, after all, you knew what you needed to know and the decision was yours.

I hope this decision has been for the best for you, your STBXW and kids.

You know you choose the best path for you and your family. I hope your stbex learns from this and and finds a way to grow out of her selfishness and be the best co-parent she can be. You and your kids deserve no less.

I will try to answear at least some of your questions, sorry if it seems random and if I skip anyone.

Did your wife have sex with the OM (I would consider oral sex as sex) or was it just kissing and petting?

No, they didn't have sex or oral or anything more than some touching. Confirmed (at least I hope( by a polygraph

What made you decide to go from possible reconciliation to no way at all? (what one thing suddenly made you change your mind

? I told her many times over the months after Dday that if she won't be 100% honest about everthing I will leave. She decided to lie some more, to cover up things a to be consciously deceptive. I don't care what her motives were, she swore to me that's all and later I found out it wasn't true. Repeatedly. There was no on big event that turned me towards no possibility of R

How is your STBX mentally?

Not good. I think she finaly realized I am dead serious about the divorce but she is far from acceptance. I just got off the phone with her sister, we are both concerned she might try something stupid so we are both on our feet

Maybe I should have said kissing and groping both of which would have been initiated and maybe even forced by the POSOM. If the WW encouraged it, then it is another matter.

He kind of forced himself on her, but in no way she wasn't receptive of his advances. But again, they both wanted different things out of this - he wanted to get into her panties, she wanted the attention and ego strokes. That physical part was her currency to get what she wanted out of it. It's sickening honestly

MrFlibble,

Keep your head up. I think you're doing a great job given the horrible circumstances you had no part in creating. The one thing that concerns me is when you state

I think she finaly realized I am dead serious about the divorce but she is far from acceptance. I just got off the phone with her sister, we are both concerned she might try something stupid so we are both on our feet

I hope she is seeing an IC or psychiatrist to help her deal with this divorce and avoid any self harm. Take care and keep us posted. Your experience can help others dealing with similar issues.

I commend you for sticking to your principles. I failed to do so and bought myself 6 more years of hell. Your WW sounds like a mess. I hope she is in therapy right now in order to help her transition out of the marriage. She made an absolutely foolish choice that would have most likely evolved into a full-blown sexual affair if you did not discover it.

Hopefully, her family can provide her with support and guidance. For the sake of her welfare and the children, she must seek professional help in order to get her life back on track.

Mr. Fibble,

I may have asked this question before, but I don't recall the answer. At one time you said that you may D your WW and maybe start dating her again. Is that a possiblity or has that ship sailed?

Mr Fibble thanks for clearing that up (for me at least).

I know that you want out and that she did some bad things, but I for one, thought that this was recoverable from if she did certain things like find out what made her susceptible to this and address the issues.

Frankly, from the picture you have painted for your wife, I kind of understand her lack of honesty - she just handled everything after discovery stupidly.

I do think you need a break but I may be the lone voice here saying do not give up on her and your family completely. I cannot help but think that this is recoverable from and that you may regret your decision later on. Just my 2 cents.

Take care of yourself.