SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So, we're not allowed to divorce now? Wow.

Darkness Falls

She gave me no indication at all she was unhappy until she confessed that she was looking for a house. She told her family and work colleagues and I had no idea. We didn’t very rarely argue and I thought communication was always good, obviously not from what I know now.

The point is when she left she said she wanted to be on her own, she didn’t want to meet anyone. I tried so hard, I started therapy on a weekly basis mainly to get help with the emotional state I was in, which wasn’t very good at all and also to try and work on things to make me a better husband. My wife knew all of this and the pain I was in.

I did not cheat, no one could if tried harder to win her back. It wasn’t until she told me that she wanted a divorce and was going to see a solicitor that I finally gave up trying. Obviously I was broken about this and only at this point did I sleep with someone else.

Main point to your comment about leaving marriage, after 19 years together, she should at least of told me earlier that she wasn’t happy instead of going behind my back looking for house. Everyone knew apart from me. Seriously you not telling me that this is right. Yes legally she has the right but morally the way she went about it is wrong

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 1:13 PM, Saturday, August 12th]

She said she wanted to be on her own. For 2 months I was heartbroken, I couldn’t work because I was in a bad way with grief, I took it really bad. I tried and tried everything to try and get us back on track, you name it I tried but was knocked back time and again. She was quite nasty at times and wouldn’t answer my calls or texts.

After 2 months I asked her another time to try again then she hit me with I want a divorce

You are not a cheater. She left the marriage. She was left you for several weeks, then told you she wanted a divorce. Legally married,ok. But she informed you,clearly,that the marriage was over.

Your wife reduced the marriage to a piece of legal paper..a paper that only needed a signature, and that legal contract would be severed. Some around here don't understand that divorce can take years. Is the bs supposed to spend their precious time on Earth waiting on a legal document to be signed,before they move forward? Seems so, otherwise they are told they are the same as the cheater who lived in the home,lied,exposed their spouse to stds, and cheated on an unknowing partner. Ridiculous.

The narratives that are pushed here are unhelpful at times. Many feel all marriages need to be reconciled,and that all people have it in them to cheat. Neither are true. One, or even a few people saying so,doesn't make it fact. Their opinions aren't anymore important, or valid, than mine,yours, or anyone else's.

File for divorce and be done with her. She's not shown any love throughout this entire farce. Free yourself to find a good woman who will respect you.

Hellfire

Thank you for agreeing with me. Some of the comments have made out I’m as bad as her. All I ever wanted was her and would never of cheated had there been a tiniest bit of hope.

Yes, legally married but like you say, could be for next 1-2 year whilst going through process. So by some people’s reasoning, I must wait this time or I as guilty as her!! You on same page as me.

Update… I have had no contact from her, still a lot of answers I need for closure but I think she’s avoiding speaking to me so she doesn’t have to tell me anything she’s uncomfortable with, bit of a cowards way out especially with the pain it’s caused me, she does not care about easing my pain and help me try and process this. Her mantra was, we both slept with another person, therefore just as guilty!!

** Not posting as staff **

I had forgotten that so many fellow members were in the 2-wrongs-make-a-right camp.

NL, You're doing yourself a disservice in giving yourself a pass.

Being betrayed by the person one thinks one loves is about as painful as life can get. Yes, a BS has to give themself some leeway WRT post-d-day behavior. But that means forgiving oneself and redeeming oneself, not pretending unhealthy actions weren't unhealthy. My bet is that inside your head, you know damn well you fucked up, and trying to ignore that sets you up for further self-betrayal.

** Posting as staff **

NL has been classified was a madhatter by the staff.

If you object to that classification, write the staff, as the guideline directs you to do.

NorthernLad: have you started D process?? Have you met any lawyers?

This closure thing is overrated. You can get your closure even after divorce when she is ready to be truthful and cooperative. Right now, she doesn't want this marriage and made series of serious deliberate choices to end this marriage unilaterally. You said that you accepted this marriage is over and tried to move on. You also said sex with other woman was an act of moving on. Personally, I believe it was a very poor choice. I won't say it's as bad as your wife's actions if what you claim was indeed true that you had given up the on this marriage and conveyed the same to your wife but your act of sex with other woman will only have messy affect on your D process and overall narrative surrounding it if there was no prior agreement on extramarital sex when you both entered seperation period. You have no evidence of her cheating on you before your sexual act with OW. But she has proof of your sex with OW. Now she has the ammunition to blame you for the fate of this marriage as you already suspected.

My advice is to not make stupid choices like this anymore. Start D process and get out of this mess ASAP. Detach from her. Detach from this drama. Detach from this desire for closure because that will not help you escape infidelity and your messy marriage. It will bind you to her and this mess. Detach and focus on healing.Try for amicable and peaceful D process.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 1:58 PM, Monday, August 14th]

The arguments about whether or not NL is a Madhatter or wayward need to stop now.

Based on the facts we know, if NL is not a wayward, then neither is his wife.

NL has no proof that his wife slept with anyone until after he did. Everything else is speculation.

Give NL support on how to heal and to move forward.

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 3:35 PM, Saturday, August 12th]

NorthernLad, I hope you won't let the labels interfere with your getting support. You are in terrible pain, and that is where your focus is (it seems), rightfully so. I have always felt supported, even as a MH, so stick around. These are just semantics.

It really feels that you are suffering from being left, abandoned. And MANY posters here can relate to those feelings. We've discussed it before here, but not being given a chance to address marital concerns--the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" followed by a withdrawal from the marriage--is absolute torture. So many posters have written of the lack of closure, the complete loss of self-esteem, the devastation. I am so sorry that your marriage was pulled away from you before you were even allowed to do any work. And you quit your lucrative job to try to save it, and now there are THOSE financial implications. I am so, so sorry. It's not fair or right. This world can be so cruel sometimes, and I have no answer for that.

Just know that you can recover. You can find yourself and pick yourself up again. There are wonderful people out there. Look how quickly you met someone else you connected with, and there will be others.

Find a new IC. Read the book suggestions. Do nice things for yourself. Eat well. Exercise. Journal your feelings out (it is surprisingly cathartic). Try the Divorce forum on the website. Many are in the same type of pain as you. There is help here. Stick with us.

(((((NorthernLad)))))

Eta: You are allowed to post about your WW's (presumably) cheating here and the impact it is having, even if some see you as having a type of revenge affair in response. It's neither here nor there because you are STILL allowed to be devastated and tortured by her actions. Just keep your posts in the General Forum and avoid posting anything in Just Found Out as madhatters cannot say anything there. But continue to share your thoughts, pain, worries, regrets. It's fine. We want to help you deal with those tumultuous emotions. I am assuming you think about her all the time. Are you actively trying to get confirmation of her secret AP? Or are you just ruminating about it? Our thoughts can be pure torture.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:38 AM, Sunday, August 13th]

OwningItNow

Thank you so much, that post made me feel better. I care not about labels wether I’m a MH or not, heck I didn’t even know what the term meant before I came on here. I thought there was more concern regarding what label I was, it really doesn’t matter to me, the pain is the same.

I’ve been going to the gym, though probably drinking too much in the evening which I know I will have to stop, not working and boredom probably a contributing factor.

Financial worries are real and I’m actively looking for a similar role but worry with all this going on if I will be able to cope as some days I’m just not good.

I have no idea where to start for finding out who AP is. Wife no longer lives with me and she and I did all our phone bills etc online. Same with banking and had separate accounts, although we did have a joint account but bills not taken from there it was more savings account. I have no details or data to go off and if BBC she’s not seeing him anymore, really don’t don’t how I would find out unless she herself tells me.

That’s unlikely to happen because she’s blocked me and refuses to talk it through. The day she confessed, I grabbed and shook her. Completely wrong I know and I completely regret it, no excuses but I was so angry and in a state of shock. At this moment, because of that, can’t really blame her.

So I’m in limbo right now. I wanting to have the chance to discuss this with her and see if she wants to be open and honest and look to work through our issues before I filed for divorce. Also, because of financial state using up all savings last 4 months paying all the bills myself, I’m worried about the financial costs involved in lawyers etc. was hoping to wait until I’m back working.

Just whole life been turned upside down. I do feel a little better from the day she told me. Doctor thinks I may have PDSD

OwningItNow

Yes I am thinking about her all the time, every waking minute. I can’t help it my mind just drifts towards her even when I purposefully try not to.

The images of what they may or not have done are running around in my head, it is torture as you stated. My stomach is constantly churning with that sinking feeling every time them images get into my head. I feel physically sick.

Can I ask any members if this is common it’s almost like I’m obsessed and I have never been an obsessive person or control freak. Is this normal to put yourself through such torture, yet you can’t help it?

How long will the constant images last? When do they start to ease? I feel like less of a man because someone else has had my wife. Tortured by not knowing who it is, is she still seeing him, is she with him now. I know I shouldn’t be so obsessive and constantly think of these things, yet I’m helpless to prevent it happening at the moment.

When will it get better?
Any advice on what to do to help?
If any members have made marriage work, how do you get past this?

Just looking for any more advice please. Anything is better than this. I honestly think I would of coped better had she died, horrible yes I know but it’s the rejection and the fact she chose to let another man inside her that’s absolutely killing me!

Time varies by person, and healing isn't linear. It's normal to have mind movies, and it takes healing and effort for them to go away.

You may want to find an IC to help you get through this with a betrayal trauma specialist, if you can.

One of our members would stop and mentally fix a salad to get her mind off of mind movies. You can do this with anything, really. Think of each step, imagine the smells, how each item feels, the sounds.

NL,

I fully understand where you’re coming from as far as the mental movies that were relentless. It will get better.

Here’s my advice man. Get angry. Take off your rose colored glasses and look at this situation and your STBXW for what this is.

Your wife was having an affair long before all of these shenanigans. You know it but you don’t have proof, but you know it’s true. Everyone here who has been dealing with infidelity absolutely believes she was having an affair and still is.

She gave you the whole I’m not in love with you and then went super shady and underground. That’s cheating spouse 101. Hell we even have an acronym for it ILYBINILWY ( I love you but I’m not in love with you). That line is tossed out almost universally when WS leaves for AP. And ya, certainly looks like you’re in the same place. And look at everything in MC, all the blame on you with 0 accountability on her and her actions. Cheating and justifying herself. That’s WS mentality all the way.

Get angry man, and get ready. You’re about to be divorced, and I’m betting your wife is way ahead of you. Don’t have the mentality of oh she would never screw me over, she absolutely will, she already is. There’s no shortage of BSs who have been completely blindsided by D by someone who just the day before told them they were their forever person. You need to focus on the only thing that you can control, you. The sooner you realize that you’re being manipulated and played the angrier you should get and the less you should invest in her. You’re fighting for a ghost, not the person who is your wife. Even if she wasn’t having an affair, she is absolutely gone now. It’s not fair, but it never is.

There’s a book,(No Soliciting). Read it. Check out the blog of the author who wrote it. I can’t mention for some reason on this forum, but trust me it will help.

My final tip. D is a business transaction, not an emotional revenge fantasy. Calm and cool.

ETA: I apologize, I am not soliciting anything. I know in my posts I come off as anti R, but I’m not. I’m pro R but only if the WS is actually going to be part of the solution. So many BS suffer needlessly trying to do all of the work, and I am guilty of the same. I am actually in R myself, but that’s only because my WW is actually doing the work and has made huge progress. I was about to quit, because she wasn’t, but it’s much better now. The book is about leaving and gaining a life. It does help.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 4:22 AM, Monday, August 14th]

I think we are focusing too much on the wrong issue.
I like comparisons and similes – and sometimes go overboard with them… But this discussion on who cheated first and all that… its like realizing once you reach your remote destination for the wilderness camping-trip that you don’t have matches or a lighter. You can argue all day long with your wife over whose job it was to bring the matches, but even if you eventually agree that it was her role (or yours…) it still leaves you with the same problem: No fire, raw food, and cold coffee. It would be a lot more productive to start thinking solutions – ranging from rubbing two sticks to packing up and giving up on the trip.

Right now the issue IMHO is not who cheated first. If I was a betting man then I would place money on there being some romantic reason for the ILYBNILWY speech when she left. But… that would be an assumption.

The problem I see is that for some time you and your wife have been having a quasi-marriage. A Frankenstein-like marriage (see… simile!). In this quasi-marriage you have no way to adhere to marital conditions, yet you have expectations of marital obligations being met – both of you. I think THAT is the big issue. An unclear destination. It’s obvious in the had-sex-with-someone-else aspect, but it also sounds like there is emotional infidelity, financial infidelity and the "in sickness and in health" obligation not being met. In other words: there are big issues in this quasi-marriage.

To me that is not sustainable and to me that is the big problem.

I want to emphasize a couple of simple truths: Your marriage can never be healthier than you are.
Your main focus should be YOUR health. Physical and mental. IF this marriage survives it will be YOUR mental fortitude that carries it through the first stages. If it doesn’t you will need to depend on YOUR mental fortitude to get out. So focus on YOU first and foremost.

Second truth is that IF this ends in D you will be fine. You will survive. Rule-of-thumb is that 2 years from the divorce people are doing emotionally fine.
Third truth (as I see it…): Divorce is not the worst outcome. It’s one of the two outcomes we can use to survive infidelity: Divorce or reconciliation. The absolutely WORST outcome and the one to avoid is where you two live together as a couple without ever cleaning up this mess. It’s where you even share your wife – physically, emotionally or even both, with someone else and you pretend to believe her when she says she is going "shopping" all dressed up on a Saturday evening. SHARING your wife and/ or living in UNTREATED INFIDELITY… THAT is the WORST.

I suggest you consider this:
Take a good think about what YOU want. Like do you want this woman as your wife? If the answer is yes then think what you need and what you can get. It’s like if you want to win the lottery – you can get a ticket and that does give you a weak chance of winning, but it would be a terrible idea to go buy a house based on your probability to win next draw. So base the what you want and what you can get on REALISTIC grounds.

To get this out of the way: To divorce all you need is that YOU want to divorce and/or that your wife doesn’t want a marriage. [As you see marriage. She MIGHT want to remain married while living separately and you two try to one-up each other withs sexual partners].
Remember that divorce is the separation of two lives. Her financial situation, living situation etc after signing is of no concern of yours. The laws are relatively fair, and you will be FINE a couple of years after the Big D. D is not an admission of surrender, nor is an attempt to R required before you file. D is simply an admission that what you are being offered isn’t what you want.

If however you want this woman as your wife…
Then the first thing to do is to get it clear from HER if she still wants you as her husband.
Note how I didn’t say "if you want this marriage" and "if she still wants this marriage". I think you two both need to look at the "old" marriage as dead, and whatever you do now needs to be seen as new.

I 100% believe that in order to reconcile you both need the truth. That includes you fessing up to your encounters with your GF (that your wife already know of btw), but it also includes your wife letting you know why she moved out. Not the ILYBNILWY but WHY. Why wasn’t it "we need to work on our relationship" or "I demand change or we divorce" but rather ILYBNILWY and move out? That’s drastic… that’s like comparing your situation to a conversation between Gacy and Bundy… (see? Another simile!). I also think you 100% need to know who the OM is. After all – it could be your mate Jack or the guy next door or whatever. A major part of recovery is accountable NC with the other person, and without knowing who he is there is no accountability… BTW – that goes both ways, so your GF is out.

Once you have the total truth you know what you are dealing with. It does require a lot of "forgiving" (as in not automatically divorcing or having a R affair if the truth hurts) and it’s possible that the truth reveals something that makes you not want to R, but IF you were to create a new marriage it needs to be from THAT truth.

OK – The issue IMHO will be that she’s not clear on what SHE wants…
Well… To use one more simile that’s like being indecisive when parachute jumping. At some point you need to pull that cord. Until and unless she clearly tells you she wants a marriage with you… she’s clearly telling you she doesn’t. If that’s the case then continue with the process of preparing, and eventually filing for divorce.

Finally:
This site has relatively few and simple guidelines. I encourage posters – maybe especially first posters – to read those guidelines. If you think them stupid or excessive or whatever… there are other sites. But then – they generally have very comparable guidelines. Going round site-rules and guidelines might make you feel smart, but definitely doesn’t show you up to us as being smart.

FunHouseMirror

So, we're not allowed to divorce now? Wow.

Well, it feels like my words are being intentionally taken out of context here. I was specifically talking about NorthernLad's specific situation first and foremost. That we are referring to the OP's situation, isn't that always implied?

I stand by what I wrote earlier. Just walking out on your spouse without making a good-faith attempt to communicate your unhappiness and work on the marriage is Wayward Behaviour. It is Wayward Behaviour just as having an affair is Wayward Behaviour. I mean, no doubt NorthernLad's wife can find things to complain about, NorthernLad is an imperfect person like every single one of us. His WW should have communicated to him what she needed to change, BEFORE deciding to move out. (With that said, I never said that you're "not allowed to divorce" as you seem to be implying here however. Certainly if your spouse walks out on or cheats on you, that is grounds for divorce)

Yes, you're entitled to suddenly break up with your boyfriend by sitting him down with an 'I'm unhappy' speech and ILYBINILWY speech, and not give him (or you) a chance to fix things. As blindsided or confused and/or in as much pain as he may be because of that, it doesn't mean you are in the wrong. You are allowed to make a unilateral decision there to end it. The vows for matrimony however are pretty strongly-worded. If someone feels that these vows are too strict then why not just cohabilitate?

NorthernLad's wife did him dirty, simple as that.

I agree with @HellFire and @HellIsNotHalfFull.

,

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:33 PM, Monday, August 14th]

What @OwningItNow said above.

WontBeFooledAgain I agree, there was no previous warning or her telling me she was unhappy. There was no kind of alcohol, drug or physical or mental abuse, I thought everything was fine. We very rarely argued and told each other we loved one another each day.

When she told me the news, her mind was made up, she wouldn’t attempt to try and work through her problems and what really hurts and I felt like I had been betrayed is that she told some of her family and work mates that she was looking for another home, this devastated me! Probably waiting until she had a place before planning on telling me before I had suspicions and then she confessed. So yes, she has the right to do that, it’s her choice and no one can stop her but it doesn’t make it right and so I agree with you on this. We were best friends (or so I thought) and told each other everything, well obviously not. If you are married or been in a relationship that long, surely you have to at least talk about it and try to see if it can be resolved when you got kids, mortgage, life together. It’s a betrayal in itself.

My update….today is our wedding anniversary, I sent her a card which also included a letter. I explained that we needed to talk, I needed answers but also what she means to mean and the way I feel about her. I also told her about the pain it had caused and apologised for anything I had fine to hurt her. I asked her to meet me at 10:00 outside the venue where we were married. She didn’t confirm she would come, as she’s still got me blocked from any firm if contact. Anyway, she did not turn up!!!

This last week has been the most painful of my life, completely horrendous, struggling to get through the days. Doctor increased my meds and now have depression to go with anxiety brought on by all of this. She has broken me.

I have decided today is the day I move on. No point in chasing ghosts who won’t speak to me as she obviously doesn’t love or care about my feelings. It’s going to be hard but today my mindset changes and I am determined, rather than sitting about feeling sorry for myself. She has messed me about for too long and like an idiot, because I loved her, I couldn’t see it. Never again will I allow her to mess me about or have that power over my mindset.

Today guys, is the change and I’m going to get through this. Thanks everyone for your concern and comments, they certainly helped in various ways

Bigger:

I think we are focusing too much on the wrong issue.

I like comparisons and similes – and sometimes go overboard with them… But this discussion on who cheated first and all that… its like realizing once you reach your remote destination for the wilderness camping-trip that you don’t have matches or a lighter. You can argue all day long with your wife over whose job it was to bring the matches, but even if you eventually agree that it was her role (or yours…) it still leaves you with the same problem: No fire, raw food, and cold coffee. It would be a lot more productive to start thinking solutions – ranging from rubbing two sticks to packing up and giving up on the trip.

This post misses something extremely critical though. The matches not being there is NOT the fundamental problem to overcome. The fundamental problem is instead that (by all evidence here) WW sabotaged preparations for the trip because she wanted to STRAND OP and leave him to the hungry grizzly bears.

In fact the whole camping trip mishap analogy breaks down. The analogy kind of implies that the mishap of say no matches could all just be due to a communication error, a misunderstanding. And that fixing the problem may involve OP and his WW working together e.g., rubbing sticks together. Walking out on your spouse is NO communication error though. It is instead more like WW wanting to leave OP stuck in the wilderness, and expressing that intention loud and clear. The only solution is for OP needs to be realizing his WW is an enemy and he needs to look out for himself.

And moving on to the rest of the post, NO, NorthernLad and his WW have not been having a quasimarriage--they did not fall into a bad pattern of communication by some sort of accident or anything. We need to be clear on what really happened instead, which was WW QUIT the marriage.

(Please forgive the several edits on my end. Just want to convey how strongly I disagree with the referred post while remaining as respectful as I can.)

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:24 PM, Wednesday, August 16th]

I am so sorry to hear, NorthernLad, reading your update on Post #38. I am glad that you are finding the resolve to be moving on from your toxic WW however. Please keep posting here. Sending you strength!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:36 PM, Tuesday, August 15th]