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Around 4 months ago wife told me she loved me but was not in love with me. She and her family were aware but not me. She had been looking for houses behind my back before she planned on telling me. I noticed she was in the house less and less and started to notice something was up. One day she said she was going to her sisters so I drive over and her car wasn’t there. I asked where she had been and she said her sisters, at this point I told her I knew she wasn’t there. This is when she told me about not being in love and she said at that time she was viewing a house. Bear in mind, she had never told me she was unhappy or give me or us the chance to work on things.

Anyway she moved to her mothers and within 3 weeks found a place to rent. My 16 year old daughter went with her & 14 year old son stayed with me. We then went to a couple of marriage guidance meetings but she just used this to complain and moan about me always been at work and sick of me midnight about work. I did have a very stressful job working long hours and it was making me miserable but I paid for everything and family had everything they all needed, holidays etc. anyway, she had not plans to follow guidance advice and I feel she used it as a tick box exercise to say "look, I tried and it didn’t work". I even gave up my job to try and save marriage but she left anyway.

She said she wanted to be on her own. For 2 months I was heartbroken, I couldn’t work because I was in a bad way with grief, I took it really bad. I tried and tried everything to try and get us back on track, you name it I tried but was knocked back time and again. She was quite nasty at times and wouldn’t answer my calls or texts.

After 2 months I asked her another time to try again then she hit me with I want a divorce. I was obviously devastated but after months of making myself physically as pining for her and endlessly attempting to win her back, although I was hurting, I had to try and move on. During this time I met someone and seem 4-5 times and slept with her.

Next thing, wife came to my house as she had found out, going off it saying I broke her heart!!! Well, no, mine was torn in two with the way I had been treated. I was still hurting and after seeing her again, it broke me again. I still wanted her more than anything and stopped seeing the other woman.

I tried to make it up with wife, one day she would say she was in love with me and next day she wasn’t, keep breaking my heart and playing with my mind. Went to marriage guidance meeting again and she stormed out saying I can’t forgive him.

Again, I was trying to win her back and now was getting some progress and looked like we would get back together but she came and seen me and told me she had slept with someone. She said it was after she found out about me and a one night stand. I was broken, worst day of my life, I felt and still feel my life is over (this was 3 days ago). This had me thinking she is using the excuse as a one night stand after she found out about me but I’m now convinced it had been going on the entire time now.

I am ashamed to admit it but when she told me she wouldn’t tell me who it was she slept with even though she knew who I had (she didn’t know her), she would not tell me a I grabbed her and said, just tell me. Not great and not proud but I didn’t hit her, I was in shock and anger. Anyway she called police saying he’s angry and worried I might come back to find out who it was, so police said to keep away from her.

I have so many questions but she won’t speak to me and I’m heartbroken, it feels like a death, I’m struggling to cope daily and just get through the day, keep breaking down. Images of what they done going round and round in my head, it’s literally killing me. But she won’t tell me anything for my closure even though I ssid I would about my one time having sex with other woman. She won’t tell me who it is, I’m wondering if it’s someone I know, or she works with, will it happen again, im tortured here. I have even contemplated ending it all I’m in that bad of a state.

I know some will say, well you did it.. yes, but she left me and I tried and tried and tried, I was in a terrible state and only reason I eventually did was because she said there was no chance for us, she wants a divorce and told me to move on. It’s not what I wanted to do. For a man, knowing that another man has been inside their wife, just disgusts and sickens me, it’s mental torture for me all these thoughts. I’m now thinking she only confessed after I had seen someone but need to know if it had been going on longer or was indeed a one night stand. Yes, we were separated but still married and I love her with every bone in my body. Together for 19 years!

I don’t know how I can get through this

  Moving to General

FYI – this was moved to General because by your own admittance you had sex with someone that was not your wife while still married. It’s what we call Mad Hatters and the site guidelines state that wayward spouses are NOT allowed to post in JFO.

Look – Your marriage has been going through a terrible, terrible period. A period that really had unclear rules, expectations and future. I personally think it unlikely that she gives you the ILYBNILWY speech without having someone else in mind Especially considering that she wasn’t at her sisters home that evening. I personally think that it’s better to wait with dating or seeing someone else until (at least) the formal process of D has started. It sounds like both of you had at some point decided the marriage was over.
And yet here you are… both judging each other with the moral yardstick of a normal marriage…

This is a bit like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy arguing over who was less morally bad in their serial-murders…

I THINK (and I fully acknowledge this is an assumption, and like all assumptions should be avoided) that she already met someone else before leaving you. Maybe not to the extent of having sex, but definitely to the extent of thinking there was a brighter future there.
It’s my VIEW (and views and opinions are about as valuable as dirt) that you two should have had some guidelines in place if the intention was to separate to eventually work on the marriage.
It SEEMS like neither of you had any expectations that you would get back together. It might have been what you wanted, but it definitely wasn’t what your wife planned when asking for a divorce.

This all creates a situation where "normal" marital values aren’t the best tool to base a future on.

I have this strange belief… I think marriages can survive from ANYTHING as long as both partners know what they are dealing with.
This doesn’t mean all marriages should survive. But if you and your wife are clear on what happened and what’s going on… you could if both wanted to reconcile this marriage.

A lot of conditions… For one you both need to want this marriage. Then you both need to hear, share and accept the truth. That truth as we know it now is that both you and your wife had sex with someone outside the marriage. Just like Bundy can’t claim Gacy was worse your wife can’t claim your cheating was worse than hers. Heck… I would even doubt using the term "cheating" if you both had the expectation that you were divorcing.
Another condition is knowing what you are dealing with. That includes hard truths like did she first have sex with someone else AFTER she discovered your "incident"? That brings up the question why does she so much want this marriage if she intentionally had sex with some guy with the goal of hurting you?

I also belief 100% in this: If she insists she left because of YOU then there is no way you can do anything to reconcile the marriage. Of course there are caveats like if you are abusive or an alcoholic or play golf all day every day or whatever. But a typical, normal person is NOT the reason a spouse gives you the ILYBNILWY speech and leaves. If she insists she left because of YOU there isn’t much you can do. You will always be you.
Of course, if she’s been begging for change and the requests are normal it’s a different story, but this "fell out of love" is generally the wrong way to say "I fell for someone else".

My recommendations?
Tell your wife that you are fine with this marriage being over. Tell her that you don’t belief you have the truth – that her actions around the time she left support what you know about her having already met someone else (you don’t need to be 100% truthful, rather evaluate how she refutes this). That her actions over the last months don’t really give you hope that she’s willing to come back to the marriage as a partner.
Let her know that IF there is to be a chance of reconciliation it’s dependent on total and utter truth and openness. Even if it hurts. You two can agree on an amnesty-period from when she left until today, where any action can be seen as something other than "infidelity". But that until you are assured that she’s totally back in the marriage there is no need for you to open yourself up to more pain. You can learn to accept that the marriage is over – but you can’t accept sharing your wife.

You can get through this and you will. You have children. You don't have the right to "check out."

I think it's time for you to move on. Your wife has shown you in actions how she feels about you and told you in words. This is not a healthy relationship. For your own sake just let her go. You can find someone who knows how to love, and you can (and will) be happy again.

Hi there,

Well I’m going to be the first to state very blatantly the obvious.

I can never know 100% for sure but I would bet money.

Your wife did not sleep with someone once after you did.

She has been having an affair this whole time.

She is using your sex as an excuse to make you the bad guy.

You are being gaslighted (look that up) lied to and abused.

Your feelings are totally understandable but don’t feel so sorry. Your wife is the villain here.

Have you asked her about it?

Bring it up in your next counseling session and pay close attention to her response.

In fact there is nothing to discuss until she comes clean or you discover the truth.

Hire a PI if you need to. You’ll find the truth.

Even if you wanted to save your marriage you will never be able to until you have the full truth.

I know it’s easy to be on the outside looking in to say file and move on. Unfortunately that’s all you can do right now.

File then you can’t date free and clear.

Your wife is cheating. She’s been cheating. There is nothing to work on except separating until she comes clean.

There is no way to stop feeling horrible in the short term but do not blame yourself so much.

Your wife is the villain here.

99.9% probability.

It’s time to get mad. In a controlled way.

I’m so sorry. Only space and time are going to help.

Thank you guys, what you thought is what I suspected. Yes I did sleep with someone but only after I tried desperately for months. She would either blank me or just as I was about to give up, give me some lifeline so I build my hopes up before letting me down again and again. I was heartbroken each time.

The worst thing is she went absolutely mental about me sleeping with someone saying your bed/house will never be my bed/house, she can’t stop thinking about it and doesn’t think she can move past it. I was thinking why would she take it this bad if she didn’t love me for all these months and surely she wouldn’t take it this bad if she herself had done it.

She swears it was only once but don’t believe it. Why won’t she say who it was with? Is it someone I know? She said it’s not. It’s driving me insane. The images running through my head are making me ill. I have had to get tablets from doctors and had to call the crisis team today for my mental health.

Hurting real, real bad.

What I didn’t say is she left me in a complete financial mess. I gave up job to save marriage and told her if she gets her own place, we could lose the marital home if we paying for 2 homes. She left all the same, supported by her family financially.

So apart from job front and financial worries, my heart is also broke. Just hope this goes away soon

I too am sorry you are here, and I agree with Confused re the following:

I can never know 100% for sure but I would bet money.

Your wife did not sleep with someone once after you did.

She has been having an affair this whole time.

She is using your sex as an excuse to make you the bad guy.

You are being gaslighted (look that up) lied to and abused.

Your feelings are totally understandable . . .

So, have you thought about what you want, going forward, with your marriage? I know for me, when I started to look at how my WH had treated me, it became more and more difficult to proceed forward with him because I knew that when times were bad, for whatever reason, he could treat me horrendously. Your spouse has shown you the same thing. Even if the above quote is not true, and your spouse was faithful until after you were not, taking what she says AS true, your spouse felt like she was not in love with you anymore and instead of discussing her feelings with you in any meaningful way, she "snuck" around and looked for a place to move to, without telling you anything about her plans, does so, and then basically ghosts you until she finds out you started to see someone else and now all of a sudden she's in love with you again?!?! So, what happens next time she feels unhappy? Will she do that again - run away and ghost you until she feels like you might move on, and then drag you back? Or will she just complete the disappearing act once she finds someone else she fancies? At a bare minimum you (she) needs to get to the bottom of why she, after 19 years of marriage, decided you weren't worthy of talking to ABOUT your relationship with each other.

If there is infidelity prior to what she has told you - that of course is a big issue as well. But going by what you KNOW, without even having to do one second of detective work, you know there is a problem with your spouse's way of handling things that has hurt you. She should start with that while you try to figure out what really happened.

It sounds like both of you had at some point decided the marriage was over.

And yet here you are… both judging each other with the moral yardstick of a normal marriage…

This is a bit like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy arguing over who was less morally bad in their serial-murders…

I am sorry Bigger but this is nonsense. You simply CANNOT equate someone trying to move on after being told explicitly by his WW that she wants a divorce, with the other partner moving out unilaterally and breaking their vows (OP's WW is indeed Wayward, she is wayward not only by sleeping with another man, but also by ending the marriage without making a good-faith effort to fix it.)

Good Grief!

NorthernLad is a BH, and NOT a madhatter.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:25 PM, Thursday, August 10th]

The worst thing is she went absolutely mental about me sleeping with someone saying your bed/house will never be my bed/house, she can’t stop thinking about it and doesn’t think she can move past it.

She is loudly protesting your actions (which are not even 1/4 as egregious as what she has done) to make herself feel justified. It's all about justifying her shitty choices. This is why we never recommend revenge affairs because waywards always believe that makes everyone even. As if! And honestly, you weren't doing it out of revenge, but since no one has caught her yet, she thinks she can get everyone to believe you are WORSE than her. I feel 90% certain that she has been cheating from the start of her strange behavior.

I was thinking why would she take it this bad if she didn’t love me for all these months and surely she wouldn’t take it this bad if she herself had done it.

Bad news. There are other reasons besides loving you. Like winning, like her ego ("How DARE you do this to me when I am so fabulous!"), and like making noise to make sure you seem like the bad guy (in case the truth of her behavior comes out).

You seem obsessed with getting more info. Have you poured over phone bills from the last year? Looked for frequently called numbers? What about credit card statements? Have you thought of putting a VAR somewhere like her car? (Tricky and not always legal if you guys are separated.) What about hiring a private investigator? He will prove she is seeing someone regularly.

Please find a good counselor to support you. Your mental health will be improved by having someone to talk to.

I just want you to be objective about this for a second. You seem obsessed with the idea of being rejected rather than missing the wonderfulness of her as a person. It could be a deeply felt abandonment wound that is triggered by something like this. You immediately ran into the arms of another woman, and in my view, you need to work on your emotional connection to your own self worth, the kind that does not come from a woman's love or approval. Try reading Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. You may find help for your thoughts.

Your WW does not sound at all worthy of the value you are placing on her. Try learning to value yourself instead. You will always have your own back.

NorthernLad is a BH, and NOT a madhatter.

100%
His WW is putting on an act.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:32 PM, Thursday, August 10th]

Thank you Wontbefooledagain

I was taken aback a little with his comment earlier. I was so committed and so in love. I almost had a mental breakdown, I was hurting day after day for for 2.5 months. She was either ignoring me or leading me on until I got my hopes up. Then I would be left broken again.

I tried and tried, I would never of went with anyone if I thought there was a chance, she gave me nothing and then mentioned divorce. I only went with someone to take my mind off her (wrong I know but other woman knew as I wouldn’t hurt someone intentionally).

To say we both at blame is a bit harsh, I have been to hell and back. Now I am completely broken!

Both still married. Neither formal separation or divorce started. Both have admitted to having sex outside the marriage. That is the definition of a Mad Hatter, and that’s the reason the mods moved this thread. Although a member of staff I don’t move threads.

NorthernLad – we can offer you virtual hugs and all stand aghast at how mean and bad your wife is. She definitely is… But it won’t help you. That’s what I’m trying to do. Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

As I stated at least twice in my post I THINK your wife was having an affair before she left. But we don’t know that for a fact. What is known is that both you and she have admitted to having sex with other people during this strange period that your marriage is going through. I personally find it… strange… that you place her on one moral yardstick but don’t apply the same one to yourself.

Now – do I see your encounter as "cheating"? Well… if you thought the marriage was salvegable then yes. But what I think the real issue is is that as-is your "marriage" is in some funky state that isn’t sustainable. I encourage you to get a clearer definition of what your relationship with her NOW really is. I suggest strongly that you talk to a solicitor and learn what divorce would really look like because unless things start changing that’s probably where this is headed.

I will admit the serial-killer comparison was over the top. I could have found a milder comparison.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:03 PM, Thursday, August 10th]

NL, you need to accept that you can’t make her love you. You can’t make her be kind. You can’t make her be unselfish.
You can get in touch with a lawyer. You can hire a PI. You can begin to get your finances straightened out. You can let go of hope that your marriage can be fixed. You can accept that she has lied and manipulated until you nearly broke.
You can look after your health by eating small nutritional meals or drinking high protein drinks. You can contact a dr for short term meds to help with anxiety and sleep.
Good luck on your journey. Look ahead instead of backwards. There are nothing but weeds back there.

I only went with someone to take my mind off her (wrong I know but other woman knew as I wouldn’t hurt someone intentionally).

NL was doing everything he could to prevent D when he had sex with ow. That looks like madhattering to me.

If there's no excuse for cheating, there's no excuse for cheating.

NL, You'll heal better if you don't treat your cheating the same way you treat your W's. In fact, you may not be able to heal if you give yourself a pass but hold your W to account. Your best bet is to hold both of you to account.

And I think your best bet is to focus on your own healing now. You seem to tie your sense of self and your well-being to your W. As you have seen, that's very dangerous. You were you before you met your W; you were you when you were with your W; and you're you now - but you've lost touch with yourself.

My reco is to find a good IC ASAP to help you process the pain of being betrayed and to help you regain your sense of self.

Sisoon

Thank you for advice.

I was doing everything I could to prevent a D but wife told me that was what she wanted and for me to move on. Then and only then did I meet OW. I did not cheat, I was told to move on. From that point I thought there was no chance, she even told me she was making appointment to see a solicitor.

Not sure how I have cheated. I have always been a faithful husband and believe me I suffered through all of this. Once she told me, I had to try and start moving on to help through the pain.

But you entitled to your opinion and do appreciate your other advice, thank you

I was taken aback a little with his comment earlier. I was so committed and so in love. I almost had a mental breakdown, I was hurting day after day for for 2.5 months. She was either ignoring me or leading me on until I got my hopes up. Then I would be left broken again.

What you described is a textbook example of what we call the "pick me dance". I am a true Madhatter. I had an EA with a woman from Mexico from 2017-2019 erstwhile my wife was having an EA and later PA with someone who traveled to Florida to visit family, hence how a guy from another state could make it a PA without arising as much suspicion and her A lasted from 2017-2020. My wife knew of my EA sometime in early 2018 and there was a time there that it went dormant and there was no contact. I learned of her at the time EA and from what I understand it too went dormant for a period in 2018 before starting up again and going physical which I wouldn't learn about for almost 2 years, which is pretty important.

From September 2019 to December 2019, my wife almost on a monthly basis would tell me that she wasn't in love with me anymore or she wasn't sure she was and that she thought it was best we proceed to divorce. At this time, we both knew quite out in the open that my EA had been a major issue, but we agreed to some counseling and much like you experienced, it was totally worthless. She was just going through the motions, but she continued to cite my cheating as the major issue in why our relationship was broken and couldn't be salvaged.

Come to December 4, 2019, I crawl into bed thinking I'm going to try my luck that night and I was met with a rejection and was told that she was putting her foot down and we were getting a divorce. Much like you, my whole world was flipped completely upside down. I knew that had put her through some shit, but by that point in time, I had already joined here at SI as a wayward under a different handle (I lost the username and password to that account) and I was already in therapy to work on my own shit and had already begun implementing some major changes. What would stick with me and others I told the story to, is why now, why this day, what is wrong? I remember sitting in my therapists office and describing in detail a set of recent events and arguments in my marriage and his reply was something along the lines of, "I've worked with a lot of couples and I will say that everything you've described is actually a fairly well functioning relationship, save for the fact that your wife just doesn't want to be married to you any longer." In other words, he wasn't seeing why our marriage was so broken that she would want to leave and he would later admit to me that the only thing that made sense to him was there was someone else.

Like yourself, I spent December 2019 through Super Bowl Sunday in early February 2020 doing my best pick me dance. I implemented changes in the use of my phone. I was completely No Contact with my AP (I had been for months up to that point), I decided at that point that Facebook, SnapChat and Instagram were no longer helping my life at all and were a source of discontentment in my marriage and they frankly weren't serving me, so one Sunday morning in December I nuked all my accounts on those platforms. It wouldn't be for another day or two that my wife would notice that I didn't have the apps anymore and that she couldn't find me by my username. Bottom line, I was doing every pick me dance tactic in the world to show my wife that I was different and I was gonna fix my shit.

The moment she was telling me and confessing about her affair to me is the moment that months and months of hell, similar to what you have bee descried, suddenly like playing the game of Tetris and clearing out a bunch of rows at once. Everything fit. Suddenly the last couple of months events that didn't seem connected and didn't make sense had an explanation and it. Your wife's pattern of behavior over a longer time horizon is screaming to me that she had an affair long ago, because her behavior pattern fits too closely with that of my wife when she was in her affair.

NL

This is my first post...
You did not cheat! If your wife only slept with someone else after the "break up" then she did not cheat either.
You were attempting to "move on". If your wife is having issues over this then that is her problem.
You can hold your head high.
If you want to continue to be with her, after all of her BS, then you both have to choke down each others behavior after a break up.
If my significant other pulled this I would tell her the change of mind is confusing and she should consider counseling.

she is wayward not only by sleeping with another man, but also by ending the marriage without making a good-faith effort to fix it.)

Wait….so now everyone who divorces their spouse, even in cases where it is unambiguously infidelity-free (which in this case probably is not)—you ascribe to them the label of "wayward"? Just because they don’t make (what you consider to be) a "good-faith effort to fix it"?

Marriage isn’t a jail sentence, and it isn’t a crime to divorce for any reason or no reason at all. One’s values can cause them to dislike divorce; even think divorce is wrong in most cases, especially after not trying to repair the relationship prior to taking that step. But to morally equate them with a cheating WS is….in my opinion….odd. Big cavernous gulf of space between those acts….cheating, lying, committing adultery; and (hopefully) politely ending a relationship that isn’t working anymore.

NorthernLad, You should feel free to move on with a clear conscience. Even though quite understandably you are absolutely gutted, as it is unilaterally your WW who did not keep her vows and who did you wrong. Your #1 concern is your own self-care and being a good dad for your children.

Are you seeing an IC in the meanwhile? Keep coming back here for support man!

Wait….so now everyone who divorces their spouse, even in cases where it is unambiguously infidelity-free (which in this case probably is not)—you ascribe to them the label of "wayward"? Just because they don’t make (what you consider to be) a "good-faith effort to fix it"?

Marriage isn’t a jail sentence, and it isn’t a crime to divorce for any reason or no reason at all. One’s values can cause them to dislike divorce; even think divorce is wrong in most cases, especially after not trying to repair the relationship prior to taking that step. But to morally equate them with a cheating WS is….in my opinion….odd. Big cavernous gulf of space between those acts….cheating, lying, committing adultery; and (hopefully) politely ending a relationship that isn’t working anymore.

Last I checked it is 'til death do you part', and not 'til you deem it isn't working anymore'.

I said what I said.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:28 PM, Friday, August 11th]

Given the current statistics, over 51% of people feel differently. Not everyone agrees with the "til death" nature, and many many folks do feel it’s not acceptable to stay in bad marriages. That’s certainly not a new-fangled opinion or concept. I said what I said.