SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As alluded to by others above, your WH’s responses to you when you first confronted him seem too smooth, manipulative and practiced, suggesting to me that your WH has been down this road before.

I'm sorry you are here. I can relate to some extent. My WH had his affair opener a month before I moved across the country to live with him, fairly early on in our relationship. The fact that he stopped the A for years before she re-initiated it (same AP - who at the time was just a few months post-getting married herself) was not a blessing - I wish he had just gone full steam ahead in the beginning, and that I had caught him then.

You have received good advice - so I will not add much except to address how you are feeling right now, to the extent I can try to relate.

1. Don't get rid of everything you think they may have touched or things you feel like you may regret later, and remember, you can't get rid of everything. For me, when the A started he brought her to our house, they had sex on my couches (when I moved we kept my stuff and got rid of his as mine was nicer), my car, his car, our bed, our guest bed, our shower - you name it, they fucked in it/on it. She petted MY dogs (and the traitors let her ). At the time I wanted to burn the house down, drive our cars off a cliff, and even cold shouldered my dogs (for one night) - I threw away and broke all kinds of stuff to the point I had to leave the house entirely. But later - later I decided to own my stuff - to not let them take it from me - that and I simply could not afford to get rid of everything that they touched. It was impossible. And I regret losing some of those things now (2 things in particular). You are right to not throw away the photos etc right now - but if you can't stomach them around see if you can't box some of that stuff up and let your friend keep it for you for now? Things are just things - they had no part in the choices your WH made - try not to let him ruin more for you (and you can always have a bonfire later if you still want it all gone). Things are fresh - try to be kind to yourself - as hard as that seems.

2. Cheaters seem to oftentimes do things that will hurt them so don't think that any leverage you have over your WH will make him any more honest or remorseful or anything - and wondering why he would potentially harm himself with this behavior is like trying to read the tea leaves. The AP in my world was married to one of my WH's now-former best friends and they all worked together (him, the AP And the OBS) - he was in their wedding FFS. He put not only his job in jeopardy but his and the OBS's jobs too by having the A especially in the way they did - long story but their all have high security clearances and their affair took place like 50% on site at the work place (it would have been 100% but our house was conveniently located less than a mile from their work so who knows how many times they were there and what they did where ) and the relationship they were having is contractual grounds for dismissal immediately - and her poor OBS was required to let management know once he did so they made him complicit in their A too because he did not - such ass_____!! All 3 of them could have lost their retirements and their clearances - any future job prospects would have been significantly hindered - but my WH and the AP did it anyway - for years - and kept going even after I - and subsequently the OBS discovered it.

3. If you want to investigate - do it NOW while he's not there. I guarantee he is in damage control mode, deleting/removing anything and everything he can remotely, but right now your shared space is yours to search without him. Look at credit card bills and access phone accounts. Look for a number that has a lot of texting and other communication that you don't recognize. You can also look at your home router history and a few other free/easy search tools to search what he cannot delete. Use google to find locations where he has been if that is activated. There are a lot of helpful tools on this site for investigation purposes. I was one hell of an investigator and my WH was sloppy - as it sounds like yours is too. Don't be surprised if he shows up early from his trip to "talk" - as I'm sure he's panicking about what is in that house you may have found.

4. Talk to a lawyer about your financial options for all the reasons reiterated here already. You do NOT have to file for divorce right now - but find out what you can do to protect yourself. Your WH may be all apologies right now BUT that may change quickly and you are not a bad person for wanting to protect yourself. Most people should do this sooner.

5. Be kind to yourself. This is NOT your fault. There is nothing that you did that justifies this behavior from him. Nothing.

6. You CANNOT fix him. He may be able to be repaired, but he's going to have to be the one doing the repairing.

7. This is not a marriage problem - this is a HIM-problem. See numbers 5 and 6. If/when he tries to shift the blame to unhappiness in the marriage, problems with you, whatever allegedly "drove" him to behave this way - remember that your marriage did not go out and have an intimate relationship with someone else - he did.

8. Be kind to yourself. I know - I said this already but it bears repeating. You are probably going to say some things you regret. You are likely going to behave in ways you don't recognize. You are likely going to feel like a stranger in your own life. You may forget things, be snappy to others, be judgmental, be cranky, irritated, irrational, lost, confused, etc. It's okay. It WILL pass AND it's unfortunately normal.

9. You will likely change your mind 10000 times about what you want to do, how you want to do it, if you believe him, if you want to leave him, and if you want to stay together - which is all normal too. There is a reason my signature line says what it says.

Hugs from this little corner of the internet - I'm glad you found us and sorry that you had to all at the same time.

I'm sorry you are here - sadly I KNOW this rush of feelings you are having.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:20 PM, Tuesday, October 18th]

I've been thinking about your story. I wonder if he wanted to get caught? I know you're going to say no. But..he knew about the cameras. He had her in your home. It doesn't sound like this is a man who was trying to keep this quiet. It sounds like a man who wants out,he's been having this affair for awhile,and he wanted to get caught.

Also,he deleted the footage from that morning. But not from 11:30 at night. I wonder if it was because you would have had a good look,during daylight hours, of this woman. He didn't want you to have any identifiable footage of her. That could be because you know her,or it could be to protect her,in case you wanted to send the footage to her husband.

It's just odd that he deleted some of the footage,but not all. There's a reason for that. He didn't forget about the cameras at all. He wanted you to find out.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:26 PM, Tuesday, October 18th]

Have a bag packed with some things of his that he would need from the bedroom, keep it at your feet, in his eyesight, also have a pen and pad ready. Have your phone ready on record and ask him to talk. Do not interrupt, even with pauses say "go on, you haven’t told me everything yet", some one else mentioned it but silence from you will get them blabbing more, even if it’s lies, most people can’t tolerate confrontation when they’re in the wrong and silence ramps up panic so they talk more. Do not, under any circumstances, reveal what you do or do not know, he will think the camera footage is all you have, act like you have more.

Instead of preparing your opener prepare for the hysteria, he will tell you lies, he will minimise, he will deflect, he will blame, he may get very nasty, he may break down, he may threaten you or himself, he might try to turn the tables and throw out ultimatum ps, he might prey on your hopes, he might prey on your fears, he might gaslight (most likely) and ultimately he will hand you false promises. What you need to work on is your resolve to stand there and take that. If you catch yourself panicking, deep breaths through it, if you want to say something count to fifty first and think it out. I do think you should ask “do I know her”? Because I agree with Hellfire, I think you might know her, he only deleted her identifying footage, he is protecting her but if she was a stranger he wouldn’t have only deleted those.

Also prepare that he wanted you to find out and him leaving to go to her.

What is certain is he has been given the luxury of time away from you to craft his lies, hide/delete his evidence, call his OW to sync their stories. He has time to take this underground, the phone boundary is good for peace of mind but it’s not a preventative.

When he has finished hand him his bag and be firm "you’re not welcome into my bed", he can have a couch or spare bedroom to sleep in. Hand him the pad and pen "you just lied to me again, I want a written timeline of your cheating from the day we got together to this very moment you walked through the door." Inform him you’re going to tell some family for support, it’s up to him to fix those relationships and tell him you will not give him any answers or reveal any plans until he has written his timeline confession and it matches what you now know.

That’s it, wrap up the confrontation and go to bed. Turn off the phone recording (it’s for you to listen back on if he makes promises but then lies and says later “I never said that”) Sleep/cry it out and get ready for confrontation #2.

Edit: If you haven’t already please make you inner circle support, close family/friend, know what is going on so they can be there for you. Screw the impression they had of WH, your well-being is more important.

Edit 2: have you read the 180 from the healing libraries articles? The 180 will help you maintain control during this.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 12:13 AM, Wednesday, October 19th]

He and the AP have been on the phone nonstop, he has a burner, getting the story straight. Don’t believe a single thing he tells you unless it is the absolute gosh awful truth. The man was cheating and has probably been cheating and you cannot let him off the hook. He’s going to try to gaslight you and he’s probably very good at it. People who do this as a way of life have been in training all of their lives. It’s like they’ve got a PhD in how to lie and cheat.
I think you might be able to say to him, who is that, how do you know her, and tell me everything right now. And wait for the lies because they’re going to be coming out.

1 year wedding anniversary

I missed this earlier.

One year. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period. And he's already cheating. Not just cheating,but bringing her to your home. Your bed. Something most cheaters wouldn't do.

We've all given you advice on Confrontation,and what's needed for reconciliation. But, not all marriages should be saved. In a situation such as this..less than a year married and he's cheating AND bringing her to your home..no shared children..maybe this is a marriage you shouldn't try to reconcile. Reconciliation is a very long painful process. It literally takes years. And you never completely trust them again. If he is cheating already,what happens when life gets hard?

Maybe he best thing you can do it see an attorney,and file for divorce.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:21 AM, Wednesday, October 19th]

I would wonder if:

He was cheating prior to the marriage

If he is a serial cheater (history prior to M)

How much of a lowlife do you have to be to bring the OW to your home

His smug attitude about this

I have to say I have a good friend in your shoes. Your H sounds exactly like my friend’s narc serial cheating H.

Women in the home all the time. Cheated with the associates in the office, the nanny, women from church etc.

Some marriages are NOT meant to be saved. Some people are NOT into monogamy and Fidelity. My friend’s XH had everyone fooled into thinking he was a "great guy" when in reality he was a fraud.

My friend said if she had to do it over again she would have never married him OR left him After the first affair (after marriage) not the hundredth affair.

Based on the way that he was cheating and his reaction when you busted him, I'm also one thinking that he's likely been cheating on you before you even got married. What he said was so calculated, like he's a pro at this. I'm really sorry.

So sorry you're here ThatIsMine. One year of marriage? This should be the honeymoon phase! Bringing her into your home is so disrespectful - and (deliberately?) cruel. The comfort level required for them to do it in your home points to a betrayal that's been going on for a while. Gotta say washing all the dishes but leaving YOUR dirty coffee mug sitting in the sink feels passive aggressive. Sometimes the seemingly small disrespectful acts like leaving that coffee mug sitting in the sink tell us all we need to know.

Agree with Hellfire and The1stWife - not all marriages should be saved. Please at least talk to a lawyer ASAP to learn what divorce might look like. Arm yourself with knowledge. I'm no lawyer but I suggest looking into annulment. Annulment laws vary from state to state. This level of contempt and duplicity one year into the marriage could indicate fraudulent intent on his part in a court of law. Annulment could provide superior financial protection over divorce. Something to think about. Please keep all the proof you unearth, like the security cam footage safe. Back it up and keep it in a secure location outside your home. Something else to think about - hiring a PI could save you from the stress and anguish of digging into his hidden life yourself. Know you've got a lot on your plate struggling with your new reality - protecting yourself financially is probably not a priority right this minute. But please don't lose sight of the big picture as you navigate this nightmare. Don't have sex with him! In some states having sex with him after discovery would be "condonement" - that you accepted his behavior.Take care of yourself with radical self care, but please include financial protections in your self care.

ETA:

when we are together in the evenings, he should put his phone in another room. Any chance of reconnecting will require actual focused time and no possible interruptions from the OP.

This sounds like you're reaching for reconciliation......whether to D or R is your choice... of course. Your counselor is trying to be helpful. BUT if reconciliation is seriously on the table absolutely NO CONTACT with the OP is what MUST happen FIRST.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 7:02 PM, Saturday, October 22nd]

I am so grateful for all this support and advice!! I have taken it to heart. You were totally right on silence: I haven’t said anything to him after the first few hours. Yesterday I got a text that he wondered if "our challenges" had gotten "outside of you and me" because his boss was trying to set up an unscheduled call with him and some important meeting had gotten canceled. Gave me a ray of insight that he’s out there becoming anxious over any little sign that people at work may know about his asshole behavior. Can’t say that didn’t cheer me up a little!! He’s so lucky that I have more class than he does. (Also it’s nice to know one of the things that scares him. He clearly didn’t think this through; AND /or it’s the pathology you all have highlighted that he doesn’t care about the risk or doesn’t think I have the resolve to make his life difficult.)

On @ ThisIsSoLonely, I have caught myself feeling the same way about my dogs!!!! Like, how could they run along with their tails wagging to walk with the OW, the same way they do with me? - My brain knows better of course. I will say I haven’t taken them for their walk all week. I know I have to heal my feelings towards them.

WH gets home tomorrow. I’m ready to bite my tongue and listen to (& document) what he says without highlighting what’s been kind of evident when I’ve sleuthed around. (Why would he think he could invisibly make dinner in my kitchen?!? I know if the BOWLS are stacked differently, forget about what drawer things go in. Last night I found a pile of unwashed grilling tools and 2 steak knives in the back yard - he must have gotten tired and gone to bed, hoping I wouldn’t be out there. Also a book of poetry he wrote me that I keep (kept) by my bed was turned face-down, which I can’t bear to think about right now.) I am *totally* doing the thing of going back and forth on what I want to do next.

So, thank you all again. I’m sad for all of us that we’re here. Also, what a "phoenix out of the ashes" you’ve created with this solid deep community!!! You all have gotten me through a week whose pain I could not possibly describe and that I know you understand. - And I haven’t burned my house down. Win! 😏

He's worried about his boss knowing? She's a coworker.

Yesterday I got a text that he wondered if "our challenges" had gotten "outside of you and me" because his boss was trying to set up an unscheduled call with him and some important meeting had gotten canceled.

he makes less money than I do and I have direct professional influence over his career.

He's worried about his boss knowing? She's a coworker.

Bingo. You beat me to it Hellfire! Another tell - one of the first statements out of his mouth when confronted was "he would bet his whole retirement that I think it’s worse than it is". A weird thing to say! Shows where his focus is right now - $$$ and job security. His immediate concern is HIM - it doesn't look like he's thinking about ThatIsMine and the hell she is going through. Referring to his betrayal as "our challenges" says a lot as well. He's already minimizing and blame shifting - trying to make this a "we" problem and not a "him" problem.

He’s so lucky that I have more class than he does.

Taking the highroad and being classy doesn't mean you can't continue to gather evidence, consult a lawyer and keep your cards close to your chest about what you know or don't know. And doesn't mean you can't use what you know as leverage to steer the outcomes of this shit show he created.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 9:00 PM, Wednesday, October 19th]

I’m so sorry that you’re here, ThisIsMine. You’ve gotten tons of very detailed advice, and I’m betting that it’s all very accurate. Your WH was far too slick and far too confident that he could explain everything away. It’s also really noticeable how he’s trying to define and control how you’re allowed to react to all of this. Be prepared that talking to him is going to be a colosal mindf*ck. You’re not going to recognize the person that comes home. I definitely would encourage you to take notes and record the conversation. You’ll be shocked to know how many ways this may be helpful to you later since emotions can run high and your mind can be truly boggled having a conversation about things that shouldn’t be possible.

I haven’t heard you mention if you recognized the OW or not from the video, but I highly recommend that you do as much investigating as possible to find out who she is if you did not. She is, as has been noted, almost certainly a co-worker. He’s worried that you’ve reported him, clearly. That should make you wonder about a few things.

As mentioned, he has certainly let her know that they’ve been discovered, so she is likely scrambling now too. They have both made themselves vulnerable to a lot of fallout, including the possibility of being fired. If she is married, she may have tried to get ahead of the curve by disclosing a sanitized version of what happened (a misunderstanding, an innocent off-site meeting that has been misinterpreted, etc.) to her spouse. Or, she may have come entirely clean with her BS in an effort to salvage her relationship there. The other BS, if there is one, could have reported them, especially if your WH is a supervisor or superior to her position. If that is the case, the company will immediately be looking to protect itself from a lawsuit. There are MANY things that could be happening. A co-worker could have reported them. Since all of this affects your professional environment as well. It’s important that you know as much as possible to protect yourself from his mess.

Finally, I’ll just agree with many others and say, he’s too polished about all of this to have just suddenly and spontaneously had a relationship that he wasn’t expecting fall into his lap. This is likely not the first time that he’s done something like this. It may not even be his first in your relationship. I second the person who recommended reading Sigyn’s thread in JustFoundOut. She’s an example of how to handle things in a way that protects your well-being through this awful trauma. Her WH is an example of just how f-ed a human being can be when they feel entitled to engage in a dishonest and dishonorable life.

Most of all, please continue to take care of yourself. Do what you need to feel safe and on firm footing. This is not an easy or fast process. Recovery takes a lot of time. There’s no room for you to take care of your WH and his worries. You really need to focus on doing what is best for you.

Hugs to you. This is truly the worst. We’re here for you.

Is the video something you can recover? This will be valuable evidence moving forward. "Our Challenges" is such a demeaning thing to say, making light of a terrible betrayal. I hadn’t even thought about the dogs and seeing them happy with her, that would be sickening. You are home ready to gut the house and he sees it as "our challenges"?

I agree with others, this is a coworker, try to find as much information as you can. His phone and computer will be squeaky clean when he returns. So bank, CC, and phone records will have clues.

Stay the course, NC and keep him wondering. Don’t tell him what you know or how you know. Your only words are here’s a pen start writing. Prepare for battle. We are here for you.

Go online and see if your carrier keeps phone records. Verizon keeps them for 18 months, online. Text and calls

Check credit card bills for unusual purchases

Check your bank statements for unknown withdrawals

Run a free credit report to see if he has accounts you don't know about

Search his computer for browsing history, social media (if you can get in, do so), emails you weren't aware of, and downloads (pics, videos, etc)

If he has google, log into his google account. There you can see app purchases (if he uses an android phone. you might see secret texting apps designed to keep that stuff off of your phonebill), web activity (in case he cleared his browsers) and his timeline (if he has google open on his phone it will track his location and store it all in the timeline).

He can of course turn off a lot of this stuff so you might come up empty handed.

This is to help you gather as much evidence as you can before he starts snowing you like it's February in the Arctic.

Hope you are doing well.

A couple of things:

You stated earlier that you make more than him, and you have professional control over him. I assume you both work for the same employer or he works for a related employer. Which is really mind blowing that he would leave some incriminating video for you to see, knowing you control his career. Is he that stupid?

Another thing: in his texts following your confrontation over the phone, he sent texts indicating he was glad, and you were probably glad, to find out because you had been wondering. Did you have suspicions that he was cheating before this revelation? Had you seen red flags? Was their tension in your relationship leading up to this caused by his behavior? Just trying to figure out where his comments came from. His behavior upon confrontation was almost like he felt he could manipulate you and control you. Like it’s not as bad as you think, because I will gaslight you until you are totally confused.

Be strong. Be aware. Do not be manipulated. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 4:07 PM, October 19th (Wednesday)]

Hate to say this ThatIsMine, but if you haven't already seems prudent to go as far back as you can on security cam footage, focusing on dates you were out of town, evenings you weren't home, etc. Gaaah. This sucks. So sorry you have to get all PI on your partner, the person who should have your back and be above suspicion. For me, the sleuthing was one of the worst parts of the nightmare. My heart would pound out of my chest and my palms would uncontrollably sweat every time I sat in front of the laptop to dig. These physical responses set up an automatic physical feedback loop tied into everything to do with the infidelity that was difficult to break. Conditioned physical responses also planted the seeds of PTSD in my mind and body. Again, if you can afford it please consider hiring a PI to help with fact finding (digging back into his past highly recommended!) and spare you from some of the accompanying physical and mental trauma. And, time is of the essence. Each passing day after discovery provides opportunities to cover his tracks, get tricky with marital funds, lay the foundations for false narratives about you and the marriage.

Better safe than sorry when it comes to protecting yourself.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 4:29 AM, Thursday, October 20th]

ThatIsMine -

Really pay attention to how his focus is on his image being tarnished and not on his betrayal and what this has all done to you. Eventually outing him will work well for you. But stay the course. Maintain NC. And continue taking care of yourself.

He's worried about his boss knowing? She's a coworker.

Agreed that is the most likely. Either that or if his job requires traveling he's been allegedly working when he hasn't (happed to a guy who worked for my ex boyfriend years ago - he was claiming he was working and billing the company when he was actually shagging some woman who was not his wife).

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:53 AM, Thursday, October 20th]

It might be time to walk the dogs...if they are like most dogs they will go for a walk with anyone :) They will be happily wagging and walking with you. Take that back. Save your anger for the one who deserves it.

Pro tip: If he uses gmail and you can access his account, look for "all mail". It is on the far left side but you need to scroll way down past "in box, sent, spam, trash, etc" will be all mail.
To delete items in gmail you need to do it in like 3 places, things may be gone when the trash is emptied but it will probably be there in "all mail".