SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Take the trip. You deserve it. You will feel refreshed and ready to get back to the business of family life afterwards. If you don’t go, resentment will build and you might remain stuck.

Sometimes I use the same expression your husband does

It’s up to you. I don’t care.

when my H wants to do something that I don’t particularly want him to do, but I’m OK with. An example is when he wants to buy large power tools. I would prefer that he never bought large power tools, because they take up space in the garage and they cost a lot of money, but I understand they are important to him. When I know it’s a bad idea I tell him why I am strongly against it. But when it seems reasonable I say what your husband says, "It’s up to you. I don’t care."

Take him at his word and go on the trip.

Mans point of view here. I thinks this is kindof a bash fest on your fWH and honestly I don't see the responses from this thread as being a help to your marriage at all.

Sex is a way to bring you two back closer together. It's apparently important as one of his love languages and right now it seems dysfunctional in your relationship. I think classifying this as emotional abuse is hyperbolic and the wrong way to look at it personally. I will say that he needs to understand how overwhelmed you are and how being tired can affect your sex drive. Have you communicated that to him and if he wants more of it, you should discuss things he could be doing to help facilitate that and take more of a load off of you.

I would suggest trying a more structured approach since it sounds like the spontaneous way is just resulting in crossed wires and causing more conflict. Id try to come to an agreement on how many times per week you two would both like to or expect to have sex and settle on a number that falls in between. So for example if you say 1x per week and he says 5x, maybe settle on 2-3x per week and then schedule it out. For example, you agree to having sex on Fri and Wed nights at 10pm. No getting too tired, no watching football games late. You have time to pre plan it. Sure, sometimes things that are unexpected will get in the way, and in that case, discuss a make up time.

Gainingclosure - Your advice would be reasonable for an infidelity-free couple in an otherwise healthy relationship going through these types of problems (though I would argue that mandating sex as a precondition to let your overworked spouse do something nice for themselves and pouting and giving the silent treatment after being shut down is unhealthy in any relationship). This isn’t that though.

I would encourage you to read some of Elle’s prior posts to get some background context for the relationship she is in, and the way her unremorseful, unrepentant wayward partner treats her. I think you might see the situation differently having done so.

I can’t answer your question but perhaps I can give you another perspective.

Right now, you are operating like a single parent. Your husband may not be aware that he is preparing you to be on your own, but he is. Mine was the same and when we separated, my life was actually easier. Because the courts gave him parenting time, it actually meant that I had some down time. He now has to figure out how to get kids different places during his parenting time.

I believe your husband needs a bit of that to either learn to appreciate you or figure things out on his own. Meanwhile, if you separate, you may grow stronger in your boundaries of how you will be treated. You don’t have to divorce, but you need to be willing to because your husband won’t change otherwise.

I remember how tired I was when I had to be super mom.

(((Hugs)))

Elle2, how often are you two being sexually intimate?

I understand bsex is important for men, but I saved myself for marriage. I didn't quite make it to the altar before we dtd but he's the only man I've ever had sex with so clearly I need a real emotional connection with someone. Not someone who will rub my feet and mark a tally in his head that he did it and then see what he gets in return.

I know this isn't it. I know that. I'm really hoping that school will give me what I need to feel secure to leave.

To me, this changes the entire conversation.

Do you love him? Do you want to be with him? Is this just a matter of him not doing the work to R or are you really done with the marriage and you're just waiting for the right time to leave?

Is this just a matter of him not doing the work to R or are you really done with the marriage

If he isn't doing the work to R, he's telling her he is done with the marriage.

A WS "just not doing the work to reconcile" is huge. No "just" about it.

Gainingclosure..this man is abusive. It's not all about her being too tired for sex. He has been abusive in many ways towards OP.

Telling her to come to a compromise, and have sex with him because he has needs,completely dismisses the way he treats her. Telling a woman she should make herself have sex with her abuser isn't helpful. As suggested, read her posts. Did you catch that she,and her kids, have to have a SAFE WORD when her husband's anger gets out of control? But..she needs to make sure he's getting his sexual needs met? She should agree on a certain amount of sex every week,regardless of how he's treated her that day? Come on,man.

Gainingclosure - maybe hyperbolic but still a horrible situation all around. Her partner sits on his ass while she works her ass off for the family then uses sex as a weapon against her.

I know men are highly sexual creatures. You know what? Woman can be too. Ask the betrayed husbands around here how sexual their wives can be. But sex is a two way street and what turns a man on isn't always what turns a woman on. If the sexual relationship is one sided, it sucks. By one sided I mean, he wants to get off, she is the closet vagina and well goddamn it she better put out. And she doesn't even orgasm, like ever.

Any man (or woman) who thinks that is good sex needs their head examined. You want more sex? Seduce your partner. For a woman with a young baby that might mean helping her out, partnering her, looking her in the eye over the crazy home
life and giving her a smile, telling her you love her while you help wrestle the brood to bed.

Trust, treating a woman like she is your mommy who needs to pamper and baby you is NOT sexy. Treating her like an object meant to make your life easier (i.e. help you avoid all the boring / hard shit about life with kids) as well as a sex vending machine that better deliver the treat with minimal effort is NOT hot.

Abuse or not, it's gross and unsexy and gross again.

Go on the trip, OP. GO ON THE TRIP.

If he isn't doing the work to R, he's telling her he is done with the marriage.

Almost all WSs are clueless about what it takes to R until it's spelled out to them and they face consequences for not following through. If they were all telling their BSs that they were done with the marriage there would be no Rs.

A WS "just not doing the work to reconcile" is huge. No "just" about it.

You're misconstruing my comment. I'm not minimizing anything. I'm trying to understand her comment that she was just waiting to feel secure enough to leave. If she's just waiting to leave and he is done with the marriage because he's not doing the work (as you suggest) then this isn't really about R at all.

Lack of sex or intimacy in a marriage is certainly something that needs to be discussed, but as others have pointed out, it’s not that simple here. Infidelity makes sex and intimacy that much harder for the betrayed. Add somebody using it against the betrayed like a pouty child who didn’t get a second cookie, and it’s damned near impossible.

Sex should never in any way be used as a bargaining tool or a condition. Period. Agree with others that this is emotionally manipulative behavior on your WHs part. There’s no two sides to this story. He’s wrong. This shit is what leads to the "I’m only cheating because of a dead bedroom" excuse, with the wayward not looking at those three fingers pointing back at themselves.

Ellie is not a blow up doll. There are other parts to marriage other than sex, like love, honor and cherish. She is already a single mom.

Stay strong Nd stay the course.

Best wishes.

Life flies by. A trip like this is special and a memory to be added to the 'special' file of your heart and mind. It will become a part of you that is good. You can go, and still have the same mess to deal at home either way so you may as well.

Your description of the feeling of being used/trading for sex as opposed to enjoying it together is quite an odd trigger for I forgot about that feeling now that I am a few years divorced. It is a tough one for you to navigate but in the mean-time looking back at my own life being married to a 'difficult' man, and with a child, I wish I would have taken advantage of more of those opportunities at the time.

Hello all! Sorry for going off the grid for so long. Life has been very hectic. IThings are still slowly deteriorating here. I started work on my masters degree last month, our youngest had tubes in and adenoids out and still isn't sleeping at night, our oldest started volleyball....its been crazy. My WH is absolutely miserable here and tell me all the time that I tricked him into moving. That he should have never believed me that things would be different or better. Fun fact, almost all of our money from the sale of the house is gone. We paid off a ton of debit (which was the plan) but it was only his debit and his car. And I was not aware how much debit he had which is my fault for no looking harder but when we would talk about it , it all seemed to be there.. Any time I asked about mine (I had two small credit cards, one of which I opened when we were separated because I couldn't afford to live otherwise) it was shut down. He bought a jeep (I may have mentioned that), he's getting a tattoo that's probably at at least $1000+ already. He throws the trip I took out there. Like $700 is really the issue. But you know what, I dont even care at this point. Im focused on school. I really hope we can work things out, but Im also working on my backup plan. I know someone was asking if I had any intentions of making it work or if I was just sticking it out until I finish school and the answer is both. I am doing what I can to make it work, but I need to make sure I have a plan in place if it doesn't. I can only do so much. He has to meet me half way.

My mom was supposed to watch the kids two weekends ago so he and I could go on a date. She got to drunk and I wasnt comfortable (obviously) leaving her with the kids which got awkward. She was a bit of an ass about the whole situation. So then last week on tues/wed I asked her if she would watch them so we could meet BIL and SIL for drinks for his 40th. She said she didn't want to give me an answer and not be able to keep it so I said never mind. Fast forward to Saturday and she comes home and asks where WH is. I told her he brought DD to a friends and then went to meet his brother. Her response was "oh well I was coming home early so y'all could go together but never mind." She gets in her PJs and gets in bed to watch a movie. I would have gone and met my husband but the opportunity was lost very quickly. So my husband was pissed. I told him to stop that its not a big deal (she's the only one that EVER watches our kids. His parents will not. Even when I was hospitalized for 3 months, his mom, who doesn't work, told him she wouldn't help).I was pissed to, but I got over it. So Sunday at 9pm while im trying to shove cereal down my throat and still need a shower after being at volleyball tournaments all day, WH asks if I want to hang out in the camper for a bit after we eat and get showered. I told him no its too late and it will be after 10 before we are both showered and eat.. He flipped saying no one wants to help us so we need to make time for each other. I agreed, but then reminded him that the last 6 WEEKENDS he's gone out, not including the Fridays he doesn't come home after work because he goes straight to the tattoo parlor. Friday is usually the day we go out to eat as a family. He goes every 4 weeks for that. Thats all time he could have spent with me, with us. His response? '' I've only gone out one night those weekends. " His logic never ceases to amaze me.
Since my last check in, He's told me Im a bad wife, that I can't take care of the kids without him, that I need to get a job to contribute (but he won't help to watch the kids one the few leads ive had on jobs), that im not a very good travel agent since I dint have a lot of bookings (I started in September) and is still on me about "my end of the bargain" for this trip. I leave in 24 days and it can't come fast enough. I feel like I am one thing away from a massive breakdown. my mom sees me struggling, and I know its not her job to fix my problems but just for her to recognize them would be nice. Everyone always say "oh I dont know how you do it. You always have so much going on', but no one offers help, even when I ask for it (i.e. my mom watching the kids). Ive tried telling WH that when he consistently talks to me that way, my body physically reacts and its like this muscle memory. So when I should normally get turned on, like when we are having a good few days or he's being helpful around the house etc, there's so much still there from before that my body wants nothing do with him. And I will even try and get myself in the mood for it but it just doesn't work. It only seems to work when Im drunk, which he's pointed out. And even that is few and far between right now. I know I have my own responsibility here. But when we were in R, REAL R, when he was trying and making me feel safe and loved things were great.They really were. There was hope and light at the end of the tunnel. I really thought we would be able to turn it around. But after a while I guess it was too hard for him. He is who he is. he will always be that person that says mean things and thinks an apology for the 12 millionth time will fix things. He will say mean things just to "win" an argument. I feel like when I think about "why" I would get divorced if I did it right now and someone asked me, all I would be able to say is that he's just mean. And I think that's my hang up with things also. It seems like such a juvenile reason. I know its no ones business, but to me it sounds like such a silly reason.

Elle2 - I am going to tell you that this isn't about sex. This is about you being tired.
Having kids is incredibly stressful. Please tell me you are done if it is this trying on your marriage.
I have known several marriages that have been ripped to tatters due to child raring. It is hard to share your attention with the kids and your spouse.
I think your WH needs to get off his arse and start thinking about you more, but you already know that. You are trying to just get past this hard part where you have a toddler that feels like it is trying to kill you due to lack of sleep. Be strong and take relish in the fact that you are being the mom your kids will respect one day. The mom who made the house work.

@doinbetter Thats exactly how I feel. That Im always trying to get through this hard spot or that hard spot. Granted we have had a lot of hard spots. But the stuff that should have done us in, like the death of our son, brought us together for a while. Its stupid shit like a baby up all night. We take turns at nigh because its not physically possible for one person to do it every single night anymore (me). Every time he has to get up he throws the covers back. Sometimes I have to tell him its his turn and it almost always turns in to him saying something mean to me, or he tells me its not his turn even though I know it is (I dont sleep all when the baby is fussy so im very aware of who's turn it is) or he's yelling at the baby to go to sleep. Most recently he told me he wasnt gonna do this for 4 nights when I am gone, that Id come home to an empty house, whatever the hell that means. Funny thing is (not really), is a few weeks ago he was mad at me for God knows what, and he decided to sleep on the couch for a whole week and flat out refused to help, even when I came out and asked him to. I remember it was a particularly rough week as the baby wasnt feeling well. He told me he did it to teach me a lesson. Still not sure what the lesson was. So its ok for him to do it as a punishment to me. I want it to work. So badly. I dont want to have to split the kids between houses. I dont want them to have a step mom or a step dad. I want them to have a mom and dad. I dont want to be a statistic. But I cannot do it alone. I dont even engage in arguments anymore usually. Unless he's just totally off his rocker and I need to drop some information in his lap. I think that's what bothers me so much about him being so pissed about my mom. She's the only one that watches our kids. She took 3 weeks off of work and stayed at our house when I was in the hospital to help Matt so he could come up more often, so she would be well quarantined when the baby was born, and to be able to help me for a few days after we came home since I had a C-section. His parents didnt meet the baby for almost 2 months because they would not follow quarantine guidelines. ur baby was in the NICU for a week.....after our previous son had died. And they just wouldn't skip going out to eat for 10 days so they could meet him. We eventually gave in and said 5 days because that was all they could manage. it still pisses me off. Mind you they lived about 7 minutes away from us so they could even have come to see him through the glass door but nope.
Im just scared of life without him. how different it would be. How hard it might be. but I also know that when we were separated, that month was bumpy for the first week but after that we all settled in and it was nice. I wasnt constantly worried about what his mood would be, what mean thing he would say. Even now I try and keep track of how long its been since we've had sex or anything and the longer it goes the more anxious I get because I know he's gonna ask, ill probably say no and BOOM hug blow up. then I tell myself to just do it to avoid a fight. And the cycle resets.

Wow, you have a lot going on. Anyone in your situation would be overwhelmed and exhausted. I have two suggestions.

First, with regard to the baby sleeping. Is it possible for you to let the baby cry it out at night, instead of getting up with them when they wake up and cry? Eventually, the baby will learn to self soothe and put themselves back to sleep. I remember when my kids were little, my husband and I were walking around like zombies we were so tired. My husband would fall asleep at work all the time, and I never wanted to have sex. When I finally learned that it was actually in the baby's best interest for them to cry it out so that they could learn to put themselves back to sleep when they woke up at night, our lives improved dramatically.

Second, I wonder if you have a friend or neighbor that you could swap babysitting with. Since you don't have much family around who is willing to help, maybe offering to babysit someone else's kids in exchange for them taking your kids might work to give you some time with your husband or just for your own sanity.

You mentioned that it might be silly or juvenile to divorce your husband because he is mean. I think a spouse being chronically mean is an acceptable reason to divorce. I hope you and your husband can work things out, though, since that is what you want.

One more thing - If I could go back in time to when my kids were young, and change one thing, it would be to have more sex with my husband. I wish I had prioritized sex. I wish I had stuck the kids in front of the TV and taken a nap so I could be more interested in sex back then. I am not saying you should change in anyway. I am just sharing that in hindsight not making sex with my husband a priority when the kids were young is my biggest regret.

he's yelling at the baby to go to sleep

This really stuck out.

This baby is less than a year old,and he is yelling at him.

This is a man who has to have a fucking safe word that you,and your children, have to use,when his anger escalates to a scary level. And he is yelling at a baby??

Is there anyone else who can keep the kids,while you go on your trip? I would be terrified to leave this abusive man with your children.

I also don't think you need to be told to prioritise a man who is abusive,over your kids.

He's not even trying. He is mean,cruel,and scary. No woman would be turned on by that. He's abusive, and was abusive long before this last child was born,so he can't use lack of sleep for his actions.

You're worried about how life would be without him. Life with him sounds like Hell.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:37 PM, Wednesday, March 9th]

My mom was supposed to watch the kids two weekends ago so he and I could go on a date. She got to drunk and I wasnt comfortable (obviously) leaving her with the kids which got awkward. She was a bit of an ass about the whole situation. So then last week on tues/wed I asked her if she would watch them so we could meet BIL and SIL for drinks for his 40th. She said she didn't want to give me an answer and not be able to keep it rolleyes so I said never mind. Fast forward to Saturday and she comes home and asks where WH is. I told her he brought DD to a friends and then went to meet his brother. Her response was "oh well I was coming home early so y'all could go together but never mind." She gets in her PJs and gets in bed to watch a movie.

Honey, this just makes my heart hurt for you. Has your mom always abused alcohol? (Before anyone jumps on me for making an assumption, getting drunk when you have agreed to watch your grandchildren is abusing alcohol, IMO) It sounds to me like you've lived in abuse for so long you don't realize it's not normal. Or healthy. And please know I'm not judging. I grew up as the youngest child of a mother with bipolar disorder who thought it was funny to come dancing out onto the front porch screaming "Oh, Lawd, Mama's in the sauce again" when my prom date brought me home. She also threatened suicide so much that I would literally sit on the school bus at 7 or 8 years old, convinced that this would be the day I'd find her dead. And it would somehow be my fault.

I was in my 40s before I figured out that I never had that responsibility nor that power. The only person whose feelings I am responsible for is me.

Interestingly, that knowledge came with the process of getting sober after 21 years of addiction that should have killed me. And it served me very well 3 years later when my M fell apart due to JM's infidelity.

You do not have to live this way. Your H is not going to change unless he wants to. You and your children deserve to live in a home and family that is free from abuse. I hope and pray that you will come to believe that too.

Hi

I'm glad to see the new responses. The original ones were too similar to give more balance. That bothered me, so , eher I am , up early and wanted to offer a different view (despite my recent trauma, which leave me wondering if i still have a brain)

I was sexually betrayed by my live-in fiance' with a D-Day a few months ago. I'm learning how little I know about relationships despite a complex people-facing career.

My first thought is, WOW, you are living in total misery. It is tough time with a baby until they are 2-3.

I suggest that you look at each problem - and address each problem.

IF your WS is not doing his R work - you need to address that (Did you define what his R work is?). For me, in my R contract (See in Just found out) - no R work, then I am done and she has 30 days to have her and her stuff, and only her stuff, and be gone. Enforce your similar boundary.

IF your husband if not helping enough (you both have careers?), You have a Husband/Wife issue(s) to promptly sort out, fix or leave him on.

IF your live-in-Mother if not helping enough (you both have careers?) or drinking too much, etc., You have a Mother/Daughter issue(s) to promptly sort out, fix or leave her on.

IF you both need baby sitters and other help - get it.

Get a door on your Mother's Room, holy smokes.

IF you are not interested in sex, once you get past being exhausted and resenting your WS/Husband for the above or other items - once he agrees to fix them and makes a good start, assess and figure out how to have a good sex life.

If you are a low sex drive person, living with a higher sex drive person IS a challenge and you need to figure out how you two will handle it. I'm on the higher end, but I have been with one who wanted more, so, I lived that, but I was OK with it. It is fun to me to romance/tease/please. In fact, for me, the worst thing about a low drive person is that I would not have an avenue to romance/tease/please them. Another reason I would run from anyone who uses sex for control - they can't enjoy sex - it is only a control tool. People who outright hate sex - they need to be upfront about it and find each other (Ya, if both virgins and religious and abstinent when married, it is yet another "secret problem" the church generally sweeps under the rug).

Wishing you success and joy.

[This message edited by takenbytotalsurprise at 12:10 PM, Thursday, March 10th]