SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

phmh

I have never told him anything was a deal breaker? In fact I have made sure to assure him that being honest would do wonder for me and R would still be a priority. Anyway, financially I am not concerned.

Felix - apologies for my too fast reading and poor comprehension - I misread your first part as saying you'd always told him cheating was a deal breaker but it sounds like maybe you never told him that and it was just what you thought your core values were. I also thought you had told him that continued lying is a deal breaker, but I reread and didn't see that, so my brain was doing crazy things last night.

Even if you will be fine financially, in our culture, money and value are often conflated. You may have an idea if he even intends to be faithful if he's willing to sign a post-nup. People are willing to say all sorts of things when it's just words. But when there are actual monetary consequences, they often have a change of heart.

No one can tell you what to do, obviously. We've just seen this play out thousands of times and give our thoughts based on what we've seen. I wish you peace and happiness as you figure out the best way for you to get out of infidelity. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, but ultimately I believe I am much happier in my life having gone through this and come out the other side than I would have been had WXH never cheated. I truly hope you find that same happiness, though it takes far longer than seems reasonable. You've got this. You will survive and be better than ever.

Felix,

Have you been working on emotionally detaching from him? For no other reason than to have as much clarity as possible?

I'm also with sisoon and Bigger. It's easy to point where your current problem is---the total lack of trust. Actually, even worse--the belief that he is still being dishonest. The enormous obstacle is how so you come to terms with the current situation.

I know that your WH is answering questions, and taking steps. But has he really pulled all the stops in his effort to help you? Personally, it is the massive effort to right the wrongs that has the most positive effect on my beliefs of my partner's sincerity. I guess the million dollar question would be:

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT HE IS DOING ALL THAT HE CAN?

How did I know I was done:

I admitted to myself that he was not a self-reflective person and would never comprehend the damage or change his ways.

He had asked to come back home and made wonderful promises, yet when I asked WHY he wanted to stay married, he had no good answer. Nothing personal about me. Just generic. So weird looking back on it.

I knew I would never sleep soundly again any time he was out at night.

I realized he had a connection with another woman that I was not a part of. If I took the leap to trust and he truly was remorseful and we stayed together, I imagined a day two or three years down the road where he runs into her and it all comes back. They can't help but feel a bond because of their time together. I was not willing to be in a marriage knowing this. I know how good it feels to see an old friend and can only imagine this could be far stronger for affair partners if the timing was right.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I contemplated the scenario where he came back home and my son would be over the moon with deep happiness. I then contemplated the scenario where he cheats once again, and what it would do to our son to go through dad leaving twice. This almost still makes me feel sick to my stomach to think of.

I then contemplated how my son would feel about me if I was now the one to kick cheater out, as opposed to Dad choosing to leave which was the current scenario. He was handling it as best as possible at the time. I was not willing to risk my wonderful relationship with my son.

I also considered the fact that if I allowed cheater back, he may not leave again, and the horrible consequences on my son living with that scene.

I was fortunate ex left at a time I was completely bamboozled, so son never saw any discord. He only heard me loose it the night I discovered ex was cheating once again after 1st D-day. That was never going to happen again, I wanted to make sure of that, and I did. It was the smoothest exit I could have hoped for and didn't want to ruin that for my son.

I thank God every day for finding help online to see him for what he was long before I could have on my own. I love not having to be married to him any longer.

I have referred to this several times previously on this site…
Some years ago I listened to Aron Ralston give a talk about his experience when he stuck his hand under a boulder in some gully in Utah. He’s the guy that eventually self-amputated his arm to save his life. The talk really impacted me for several reasons. One being his determination to do what was right for his situation as opposed to what he WANTED to do. He never wanted to lose his arm, but realized that at some point that was the least bad of his options.
The main reason I was spellbound with his talk was when he described his emotions once he reached that decision. What struck me was that I too had felt those emotions a couple of times in my life. A certain peace and acceptance after a period of intense emotion, fear, anger, suspense… It was exactly the feeling I got after the intense emotional shock of walking in on my fiancé and her lover. My decision to end that relationship wasn’t based on anger or shame or resentment, but rather the logic of THAT relationship not being salvageable if she was capable of cheating only hours after discussing seating-plans for our wedding.
I think we get that sense of calm when we are determined that it’s enough. Frankly I’m not getting that emotion from you…

Would you be OK with telling your husband what’s going on? Like I suggested but:
"Husband. I don’t trust you. This lack of trust is preventing me from committing to reconciliation and mending our marriage. This can’t go on. I need to be assured that I know the truth, that you are being forthright and that you trust ME.
This is serious. If this doesn’t change then I’m not going to remain in a marriage where I don’t trust.
What suggestions do YOU have to enable me to gain trust?"

And then go on with what I suggested earlier.

Some years ago I listened to Aron Ralston give a talk about his experience when he stuck his hand under a boulder in some gully in Utah. He’s the guy that eventually self-amputated his arm to save his life. The talk really impacted me for several reasons. One being his determination to do what was right for his situation as opposed to what he WANTED to do. He never wanted to lose his arm, but realized that at some point that was the least bad of his options.

I had the opportunity to see the same talk. Great analogy.

Great post Bigger! I love the analogy. When I look back at how I felt when I was leaving it literally felt like I had to save my own life. I knew I was at the threshold where I was going to end up inpatient again and I decided to leave instead. Shortly after leaving I discovered my health was in really bad shape, the marriage was killing me, and I have been getting healthier ever since both mentally and physically.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:17 PM, Tuesday, October 5th]

jb3199

I definitely think I have emotionally detached alot from him. He could be doing more, he is in IC and group. I have complete access to phone and can see every move he makes on it and where he is at at all times.. He doesn't read books, or listen to podcasts, or do any internet research on betrayal trauma which I think he should be doing. So yeah he could be doing more. He will read links and anything I send to him. Which I have copied and pasted the really good long posts from WS here and he is reading them slowly as they are long. But again I wish he was seeking this stuff out on his own.

Thanks bigger, I like the way you worded that.

I knew I was done when I just knew. I know that sounds silly, but it is truly how it went. I was tired, I didn’t want to do it anymore, and I simply no longer cared. I no longer found myself struggling with the decision and I no longer found myself being torn apart about it. It was just like I was done. I had gone back-and-forth for so long and after time and clarity, it just hit me I didn’t want to anymore.

I knew I was DONE when the pain of staying was worse than the pain of leaving.

Ditto! I knew I was done when I just couldn't take it anymore. He was lying about the OW still in his life, and when I thought we were moving towards being together I found out that she had been there the entire time.

I didn't bother talking to her because I knew she'd just lie too.

Deciding to let go was the hardest and yet the most fulfilling thing I ever did.

I knew I was done when my XW nearly passed away from complications of elective surgery in Mexico. I was praying fervently for her recovery as she lay in an ICU bed with monitors and IVs all over. But the sense came to me loud and clear that "if" she recovered, I knew she would go back to her affair partner. 3 months after our return to the United States, she started back up again and I was done. This was after 4 years of reconciliation that for the most part went well. I spent those 3 months leading up to that point in tremendous mourning for the loss of a 31 year marriage, but when I saw the first series of texts show up on the phone bill, I just knew for sure that the marriage was cooked.

It eventually took another 4 or 5 months to separate and 4 months for the divorce to be final.

[This message edited by countrydirt at 7:52 PM, Wednesday, October 6th]

sisoon......

Healing from infidelity is impossible without conflict.

Wow. Just wow.

I guess I’m just slow slow on the uptake. No duh.

I have always thought that my husband felt bad for what he did. And he would go to counseling with me. We went to Retrouvaille and he enjoyed that program because for the longest time you just write thoughts down and read them to your partner but there is no "back-and-forth". Then when it came time to do the "problem-solving" part of the program, he bailed.

He is a poster child for conflict avoidance. No, he is THE poster child for conflict avoidance.

Thanks, that statement just hit me like a ton of bricks and clarified things for me. It doesn’t really help or change anything, except a little understanding can go along way for peace of mind.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 12:36 PM, Saturday, October 9th]

To avoid a T/J, I've posted a thread in the R forum on conflict resolution in R.

I knew I was done when I realized that he could be the perfect husband for the rest of our lives and I would still be living every day waiting for the other shoe to drop because I would never trust him. I knew I could rebuild trust but knowing what he was capable of meant living every day knowing it could all happen again and that was too much for me.

And then I began to really accept what I was getting if I stayed. I thought I was staying so I could save my marriage and grow old with someone and have my kids have an intact family but that wasn’t even what I was getting - there was still conflict that my kids were around and it wasn’t some sweet marriage that i was looking forward to spending years and years with him.

Every vision I had of the future where I was happy was with him being completely different than he was - doing things he wasn’t doing and changing in ways he wasn’t changing. I had to accept that he wasn’t that person.

And that made it much easier to walk away from. I wasn’t losing that vision of a long term wonderful marriage because it was already gone. I wouldn’t get it even if I stayed.

But leaving meant I had the chance to one day have a relationship with Someone who actually deserved me and treated me well. And that felt like it was worth way more than clinging to the shit show of a marriage I was clinging to.

There were several things for me.

1. After all the lies & trickle-truths, I felt I'd never get the full truth. Even after it really did seem like everything was out, I just knew I'd never feel safe or believe him again. When he went back to work (because of covid), I was panicked at the thought that I'd never know what goes on there (that's where he found his APs). It was a constant source of anxiety & stress.

2. I didn't like the person this had made me become. I was angry and sad all the time. I was hypervigilant, constantly scanning for another lie, combing through cell phone records, matching up numbers, finding ways to try to catch him doing something. I didn't enjoy the things I used to enjoy. I felt in constant pain when we'd do things together as a family (I felt in pain all the time, but especially when we'd be trying to do happy things). I had near-constant intrusive thoughts & mind movies about him with APs. I had nightmares. I cried all the time. I felt horrible about myself. It was awful. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.

3. I didn't feel like I could live an authentic life if I stayed, because I felt like I couldn't talk about what happened to me. I felt like I had to keep it secret (from friends, my kids, family, etc), and I can't live like that. It felt like letting him off the hook & shifting this huge weight onto me.

4. This is not the kind of relationship I wanted to model for my kids. I was no longer interested in doing relationshippy things with my WH, I was constantly feeling rage toward him (we never yelled or anything, but I'm sure my kids could feel the tension), and this was just not good in any sense. I want my kids to see my happy and see someone treating me well.

5. I no longer had a desire to be faithful to him.

He had asked to come back home and made wonderful promises, yet when I asked WHY he wanted to stay married, he had no good answer. Nothing personal about me. Just generic. So weird looking back on it.

I asked my Wh why he wanted to stay together, and he said "Because I finally see now that you can fulfill all my needs." Nothing about what he brings to the relationship or whether he fulfills my needs. It was a very jarring moment.

I realized he had a connection with another woman that I was not a part of. If I took the leap to trust and he truly was remorseful and we stayed together, I imagined a day two or three years down the road where he runs into her and it all comes back. They can't help but feel a bond because of their time together. I was not willing to be in a marriage knowing this. I know how good it feels to see an old friend and can only imagine this could be far stronger for affair partners if the timing was right.

This too. Just knowing he had these memories & experiences & would be reminded of them & think of them.

I have complete access to phone and can see every move he makes on it and where he is at at all times.

I had access to all of this as well, but I realized I do not want that kind of relationship where that is necessary. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized he could easily fool me still if he really wanted to and I'd never know. It didn't make me feel safer.

He doesn't read books, or listen to podcasts, or do any internet research on betrayal trauma which I think he should be doing. So yeah he could be doing more. He will read links and anything I send to him. Which I have copied and pasted the really good long posts from WS here and he is reading them slowly as they are long. But again I wish he was seeking this stuff out on his own.

This was my WH too. Part of me considering reconciliation was that I told him I want to SEE him seeking out information on his own. I helped him a lot, I pointed him in all the right directions, and he still half-assed it and most of the time didn't do it at all. I know he's capable of learning, because he does it for things that are importnat to him (he can tell you everything about his favorite cars and audio systems).

When I finally told him he needed to leave, he confessed he hadn't been doing those things I'd asked because he just didn't feel like it. He thought it was too much. He just wanted us to move on, leave the affairs in the past. He said this even though I'd been very clear that that was not an option. So, he just wasn't really paying attention and didn't really care enough to put in the necessary work.