SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Barcher, just quit that stuff, for goodness' sakes. If I were dating a guy who put this much thought into getting in digs at his ex-wife, I'd see that as a glaring red flag. A, he's not over her enough for a relationship. B, he's not mature enough for a relationship. Your ex-wife should not be such a central part of your life right now emotionally if you are attempting to be with another woman. The goal is to get to a place where you don't care enough to bother doing that kind of shit. Your kids REALLY don't need this. They're going through a divorce. Your job is to help them, not make it harder.

I've been rather disturbed by your girlfriends involvement in all of this. She's overstepped more than a few boundaries.

She seems to Relish in making your ex uncomfortable. I'm sure after having a wife like yours, that feels good. But she is damaging her relationship with your children. I'm sure you will defend her behavior. Because she is behaving very much like you.

Your wife may very well be guilty of trying to alienate the children from you. But you, are guilty of the same, albeit a bit more subtly.

There is a reason that you did not get as much custody as you wanted. Maybe all the reasons you listed are valid. But there also might be something about your behavior, and your actions, that caused you not to get the custody that you wanted.

I have been by your side from the beginning, my friend. But you are making huge mistakes. Instead of defending your actions, and your girlfriend's actions, maybe you need to absorb the advice that you are getting. I don't see anybody here who wants you to fail. We are trying to help you. I highly suggest you take that help.

I've been rather disturbed by your girlfriends involvement in all of this. She's overstepped more than a few boundaries.

I agree. If my SO were asking I be involved with his STBXW at this level, I wouldn't do it. I'm not going to be involved in inflicting hurt on someone I don't even know, and I surely wouldn't want to get in the middle where there are children involved. You may believe you are very clever, Barcher, but doing the things you are doing are hurtful not only to your STBXW, but to your children.

If I were dating a guy who put this much thought into getting in digs at his ex-wife, I'd see that as a glaring red flag.

Very much agree with this. Your energies should be directed towards parenting, finishing the legal battles and working on yourself. Baiting your STBXW is only going to make a co-parenting relationship that much harder. The evaluator has already indicated that she doesn't believe you can co-parent effectively. Don't give her more ammunition in that regard.

What is the downside to treating your children's other parent in a businesslike and respectful way? Shoot, to test out your new co-parenting software, you chose to deliver a series of nasty messages. Was that really necessary? Or was it a convenient way to get your digs in?

You have a minimum of 10 years (and a maximum of a lifetime) to effectively navigate co-parenting. While you cannot control your STBXW's behavior, you can control your own.

Does your IC know what you've been up to in this regard? Maybe doing a deeper dive on dealing with the end of your marriage and working through your hurt and anger might be helpful.

Cat

Is this the reason you have been "fired" directly or indirectly by your previous counsel/s?

Where do you get the idea that I was "fired" by previous counsel? That's completely wrong. I fired them... for basically not being my lawyer. So, get your facts straight.

Is this a contributing behavioral factor to an unsatisfactory custody evaluation?

Nope. Not in the least.

The new interests participation in this raises other questions that could easily be exploited by competent counsel.

And Martians could attack. Please explain, with details, how competent counsel could exploit this? I live in a no-fault state. The custody evaluation is over... the evaluator had plenty of concerns about STBXW and few about me. Legally speaking, I cannot get less custody without documented physical abuse.

Disagree. "Messing with her" is not "killing her with kindness." It's being a jerk.

I bought her a nice gift (on behalf of my kids) and wrapped it very nicely. Yes, the wrapping paper said "ho ho ho" but it was literally Christmas wrapping paper. Chill out.

You cited her for violations of something that, according to you, is not yet a custody agreement; it is a proposal by the custody evaluator.

I cited her doing hurtful things to the kids. Should I just let that go?

My ex swore to me it would be a cold day in hell before I saw one cent of alimony. I was awarded lifetime alimony. He neglected to read the statute and listen to his attorney. I was willing to settle for far less than he ended up being ordered to pay.

Well, clearly, the divorce that you experienced is PRECISELY like every other divorce on the planet.

how do you think these activities will impact the children?

Hopefully, "these activities" will convince STBXW to stop doing things that hurt them. This is why they are part of the parenting agreement. As far as the gift, I encouraged the kids to pick out something. It's very personal and very nice.

STBXW, in contrast, got me a $25 gift certificate to a place that I never go.

So, you tell me...

Keep in mind the old saying, "this too shall pass," and let the petty oneupsmanship go.

Do you realize how much petty oneupmanship I have let go? Do you have any clue how much bullshit she has thrown my way over the last 18 months? An inkling?

I have been accused of rape. I have been accused of domestic violence to all of our mutual friends. I have been accused of being a drug addict. I have been accused of being neglectful. I have been accused of being insane. I have been accused of being over-bearing.

If there is an accusation out there, I have absorbed it. Without flinching. So, I have now jabbed her back in very subtle ways and in ways that are totally justifiable.

This type of treatment is abuse.

Then I am abusive. Guilty as charged.

Why have you switched more than once? Let me guess, it is all their fault?

Yes. And to quote the custody evaluator, my first two attorneys did me no favors. Since you have no clue of my history, then go ahead and form your opinions based on nothing but thin air. You missed the part where SI members encouraged me to fire both Attorney#1 and Attorney#2 for negligence. Attorney#3 has encouraged me to file a malpractice suit against Attorney#2... but hey, you're right... I am a difficult client and my mask is slipping.

Yadda yadda yadda.... I am the evil asshole that she claims me to be. You all are right.

Enjoy yourselves. Have a good life. I wish you well.

Your response was not the result intended.

Re-read MY post alone. It was to get you to move away from having negative interaction with the STBXW. I did not comment on your attorneys or anything else.

I know you are more than justified in your feelings towards the STBXW. She has accused you of heinous things. I’m not on her side but I am looking at what is best for your children.

You don’t think they heard her feelings about the “ho ho ho” wrapping paper? I am sure she had plenty to say about it. (I do think it’s funny). But it’s NOT funny if your children are caught in the middle.

And given the STBXW’s past behavior, those kids are in the middle. You cannot do anything right by her. But you can surely try to do “less wrong” to minimize the effect on your kids.

That was my only point. I was not attacking you but making a suggestion. For your peace of mind and having your kids be exposed to her backlash for things you say or do with regards to the STBXW.

That’s it. Nothing more than that. Keep the kids as your focus. Keep thinking “if I say or do this to their mother will this (action or wording) come back to haunt them?”

Be the prize in their life.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:46 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

1stWife makes a very good point in that you have an opportunity to stop the ramp up on these childish behaviors, at least on your end. You have no control over how she chooses to behave, but you have total control over your behavior. The fact that the two of you have lapsed into what is basically a pissing match with the children in the middle doesn't speak well for either of you.

Hopefully, "these activities" will convince STBXW to stop doing things that hurt them.

So you taking potshots at your STBXW is how you're going to get her to be a better parent? Am I understanding this correctly, or did I miss something? And at some point after sufficient digs and "messing", she'll come to an epiphany and amend her parenting ways? Really? To quote a favorite radio personality, "I never made the connection."

I bought her a nice gift (on behalf of my kids) and wrapped it very nicely. Yes, the wrapping paper said "ho ho ho" but it was literally Christmas wrapping paper. Chill out.

You neglected the part about having the gift sent to GF's residence, leaving the address label on the box and having GF write the tag. What are you going to do for an encore? Piss on her tires?

You know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with dropping the rope and refusing to play tug of war with her. You drop the rope and she can pull all she likes--she won't get anything but slack rope.

Her behavior does not give you a free pass for equally disgusting behavior on your part. What is wrong with a dignified silence, treating her with respect but distance and concentrating only on parenting? Instead, you're busy thinking up things to deliberately hurt her feelings and thinking you're all that and a bag of chips for doing so "subtly" and it being "justifiable." And shame on your GF for actively participating in this. She's engaging in causing hurt to someone she doesn't even know. How is that okay in anyone's book? I understand your STBXW has done is pretty hurtful things to you, but is being hurtful back and engaging others to do the hurting with you something you are proud of? Is this the example you wish to set for your children?

It's not. You're still a ways away from things being finalized, and I, for one, would do nothing to jeopardize my position, even if I was extremely confident. The judge has broad powers and has already not ruled in your favor. I wouldn't want to do anything that would reinforce any sort of negative view of my position.

My advice of discussing this with your IC still stands--maybe there are better and more effective ways you can explore together to deal with your understandable hurt and anger.

Cat

It was just the last thread I had asked if you thought there was a possibility that your psych evaluation was correct in the assessment that you don’t take responsibility for your faults. Looks like actions speak louder than words.

On a lighter note, barcher, people say that they give gifts that they like to receive. Save your $25 gift card and give it back to her next Christmas. Or for her birthday or mothers day. Hey your not going to use it.

You said “Legally speaking, I cannot get less custody without documented physical abuse.”

If you cannot see how big of a deal this is, I don’t know that anything will get through to you. Your response to the criticisms in this thread mirror your response to criticism in every other thread where people tell you things you don’t like. I have a sneaking suspicion the custody evaluator came to similar conclusions. Perhaps not...

But the fact that your daughters clearly voiced a preference of living with their mom tells me that THEY have come to some conclusions.

I wish you could take a step back and consider the possibility that some of what’s being said here has merit. Unfortunately, for whatever reason that I won’t speculate about online in a public forum, I don’t think that’s possible. And that makes me sad for you, but even more so for your children.

If you want your STBXW to stop hurting the children,

Hopefully, "these activities" will convince STBXW to stop doing things that hurt them.

Then why don't you just have a conversation with her to stop the hurtful actions. Why don't the two of you come to an agreement on behalf of the children to stop vindictive activities?

Barcher, remember, the title of this post.

Messing with STBXW: Merry Christmas Edition

The folks posting to you are responding to your words, your actions and are trying to help you. In particular, many, including me are concerned about the children who ALWAYS get caught in the middle of the discord between their parents.

You seem to be very angry at us for trying to help. It is odd.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ me too

Barcher, I'm very sorry for your disappointment regarding custody. I know it's a real blow because you love your children. But I also suspect that you view it as you lost, which I get the impression from your posts is not something you deal with well.

There is something I have to point out. You yourself told us about the ironic hilarity of the HO HO HO wrapping paper. When people called you on it, you suddenly defended it saying it was JUST wrapping paper and admonished us to get over it. The implication was we have the problem. But you yourself thought it was so very clever. You can't have it both ways.

We can read the pain and frustration in your posts and honestly empathize. So many of us have been there. Some of us saw far worse, so yeah, we get it. But that doesn't mean we should be expected to put up and shut up, and only praise you for your clear attempts at retaliation.

There are no winners in this. But there are losers, and that's those children you love so much. We know, because no matter how judgemental you may think we all are, we've been there and witnessed collateral damage first hand. So if we are honestly attempting to point out the danger of intentially "messing" with STBXW, we came by that advice the hard way.

Where do you get the idea that I was "fired" by previous counsel? That's completely wrong. I fired them... for basically not being my lawyer. So, get your facts straight.

I have several friends who are practicing attorneys all have "fired" clients who were deemed merely too problematic for the compensation.

Truly skilled lawyers generally to do not have a shortage of clients and have little patience for those who do not heed the warnings of their wise counsel.

Nope. Not in the least

Of course it was a factor and a significant one at that. You have already written that the judge in your case is accepting your soon to be ex's perspective over yours. This is evidenced in your removal from the home on such short notice.

And Martians could attack. Please explain, with details, how competent counsel could exploit this? I live in a no-fault state. The custody evaluation is over... the evaluator had plenty of concerns about STBXW and few about me. Legally speaking, I cannot get less custody without documented physical abuse.

No-fault have little to do with the custody divisions in your case. There are a number of valid concerns regarding the welfare of the children in regard to your demonstrated and documented past behavior, that you have written extensively about here.

Now you have decided to add a new partner who not only encourages this continued pattern but also actively participates. This clearly demonstrates continued poor decision making and thus RISK. Risk/threat to the childrens well being supersedes any other factor in regard to custody. This would be a very easy thread to weave and one that would very difficult to refute on your part at this time.

I would think even the most average attorney with even middling motivation could and would make this point quite effectively to the judge in your case.

This brings us to today, are you going to continue to behave as someone of low regard, or is it TIME TO GROW UP. What your X did or did not do is no longer material, it is time to stop the bloodletting and decide to do what is best for the children. Show them the way to properly behave even when you are/are not the wronged party.

Do not be like the participates in the middle east, an endless cycle of grievances and violence that will never stop until they love their children more than they hate the other side.

Do you love your children more than you hate your X?

I said:

Keep in mind the old saying, "this too shall pass," and let the petty oneupsmanship go.

and barcher144 replied:

Do you realize how much petty oneupmanship I have let go? Do you have any clue how much bullshit she has thrown my way over the last 18 months? An inkling?

I have been accused of rape. I have been accused of domestic violence to all of our mutual friends. I have been accused of being a drug addict. I have been accused of being neglectful. I have been accused of being insane. I have been accused of being over-bearing.

If there is an accusation out there, I have absorbed it. Without flinching. So, I have now jabbed her back in very subtle ways and in ways that are totally justifiable.

Yes, actually, I do realize how much petty oneupmanship that you, and I, and lots of others on this board, have let go. Don't forget it, we get it.

One thing that my xW taught me is that crazy has infinite energy. Crazy is crazy all the freaking time. Every second of every day is crazy and if you start responding to crazy, well, then you get crazy, too.

So, to answer your question very directly, Yes, I realize how much absolute bullshit that you have let go. I got accused of the same things and the only way that I, personally, could preserve my sanity was to ignore it. To let it wash over me like water over a duck's back, and to let it drain off in the same way.

The only way to get my sanity -back- was to drop all of the bullshit, to ignore it, and to maintain NC as much as possible.

That's what I did, and because of that that's what I recommended for you to do, too.

I wish you the best.

edited to fix typos. :v( typos.

[This message edited by devotedman at 1:36 PM, December 28th, 2019 (Saturday)]

You do have friends here,barcher. And real friends will tell you the truth, even when we know it's something you don't want to hear.

Look, your ex is horrible. Personally, one of the worst I've seen here on SI. No one thinks she's a good person, and you're the monster in your situation.

But you need to rise above all this petty bullshit. Stop fucking with her. Knock it off. You are better than that. So act like it. And your girlfriend needs to stay out of it. It's one thing to suppprt you, as she should, it's another for her to participate in these shenanigans.

In the end, you're not hurting your ex. You're hurting the kids. As someone said earlier, you need to love your kids, more than you hate your ex.

barcher144, I hope you and your kids are doing okay.

I hope you and your kids are doing okay.

Me and my kids are doing just fine.

And real friends will tell you the truth, even when we know it's something you don't want to hear.

Real friends can tell me the truth and I listen just fine.

Some of the stuff said in this thread about me, however, was out of line and hurtful. This is supposed to be a support forum.

I'm glad things are going well for you,barcher!

(((barcher)))

Any updates?? Maybe a new thread would be a better idea though!

Any updates??

Not really. There is a bunch of little, petty bullshit stuff. Nothing that I care to think about or rehash.

We are theoretically negotiating but they refuse to budge on virtually everything. On Friday, they sent my attorney a message basically saying "We're done negotiating. We think that we can get everything that we want at trial."

They are now asking for permanent alimony, that she is a hardship case and that I should pay her attorney fees, and that I should pay for all of the custody evaluation.

I find the hardship case to be particularly humorous. She has refused to go back to work full-time... and she is getting a handsome settlement, even if *I* win on every point of disagreement. And it is not like I am wealthy. I make a good income, but nothing jaw-dropping (I am sure both attorneys make more than me, for example).

The cost of the custody evaluation is going to be an interesting one. She basically got what she wanted there, but not because of her reason (domestic abuse). It basically came down to the fact that the kids said that they preferred to be with her.

Her lawyer is a real piece of slime. When it's over, I'll be filing an ethical complaint against her for inventing fake evidence (I'll also file a complaint against attorney#2 for general negligence). I doubt that the ethical complaint against STBXW's attorney will go anywhere, but maybe it will cause her a little inconvenience... that will be the best that I can do.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 8:23 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)]