SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The betrayal from your wife ticked a lot of boxes that would quickly push a BS to D. She did multiple things that can be particularly hard for a BS to recover from. You're likely going to have a lot of triggers to deal with if you don't D.

However, it also appears that she is understanding her betrayal and getting it far faster than most WW. So in a way, you are confronted with two extremes. On the one side you have every reason to D but on the other, your WW seems to be remorseful and has reached that point sooner than most. It's early days for sure, a wayward showing signs of remorse is different than a WW diligently taking action for a few years to make herself safe and help heal you. But she appears to be making the early effort that would make you think that you might actually be able to R if you can personally overcome what she did.

It feels like you may be avoiding your pain. Obviously, I really don't know from just a thread but some people are resilient to the point where they stuff their pain away and drive on. You can't stuff all the pain away from an A but some people do ignore more than you might think anyone could. It comes out sooner or later though. If you are in this boat, try to be aware of it and seek help from an IC with it.

And as for telling the OBS, I know you are close to doing it. She deserves to know but also, the Karma bus is driving around out there and sometimes we can steer it to a specific address. This is one of those times. The ap deserves a bus stop right on his doorstep.

Dr. S,

Hang in there, you're doing well. Just outlet of thoughts.

When the time-line is done, have you WW read it to you. This will help in several ways and really drive home to her the extent of what she's done.
Also, please listen to ALL the veterans on here and tell the OBS. This is critical.

The one piece OP has left out, but keeps noting he will eventually post (because it has some bearing he says), is his snd his WW’s past sexual history.

You're absolutely on point in thinking about the long term rather than tomorrow.

If you're interested in R, you will have to devote a long time to working before you find out what the resuts are. It took me 3.5-4 years before I was ready to declare victory - and, of course, I still might have to deal with betrayal by my W in the future.

For me, the decision to R was based on a few factors: 1) we had had very good times for decades before the A; 2) I thought we could get back to a very good M that would continue to get better as time went on; 3) I thought my W would do her work and I would do mine. So far, I'm happier than I thought I would be - and I thought I'd be very happy.

So a good R is very good indeed, and your W shows evidence she might do it. Her A ... well, it was shorter than my W's, and her whole relationship was shorter than my W's. My W was more deceptive ... I asked her at least 3 times if she was cheating, and she convinced me she wasn't all 3 times. It was, in some ways, more sexual.

Comparing As isn't generally useful, but this thread has gone into that, at least the way I read it, so I thought it would be OK to go into that.

Your MC made a reco in the shock of d-day and then re-thought it. She looks like an effective MC, even so, and I see no reason to change. My reco is: If you think the trip will be satisfying, go. If you think you won't be able to focus on the here and now within the context of being a few weeks out (from d-day), I suspect cancelling would be a good idea. Using the time to be on your own may get you an answer to the question, 'What do you want?' - and that is one of THE crucial questions. No matter what, however, you're likely to obsess about the A for some of the time, wherever you are.

I reco not committing to R just yet. Use a few (3? 6?) months to test your W. If she makes contact with om during your trip, that's a big fail; if she doesn't, it's a small win. If om contacts her and she quickly rebuffs him, that is probably a bigger win - neither she nor you can control his behavior, so I don't count an ap's attempt to break NC against the WS, unless the WS responds by continuing contact. There are other tests, too - if your W lies, it's negative for R. If she refuses to answer a question, it's negative for R. If she ueges you to get over it, it's negative for R. (I personally accepted, 'Can I not answer until we're in an MC session?' If you get that, you'll have to choose to accept or reject it.)

Honesty is the key to recovery and R, IMO. My W began answering questions immediately on d-day. It took me a long while to realize that she had committed to honesty - I've heard no lies since before d-day.

All you really need is honesty - that won't guarantee R, but it will guarantee no more betrayals, and I think it will guarantee an amicable D.

To R, I think it's necessary - and at least helpful - to think about the future, not about the A. The A might have been awful if your W had just kissed the guy; it would have been awful if it had been an ONS. There's no question that D is an option open to you.

But what matters to your M really is the future. Will your W stay the course to change from cheater to good partner? If so, R is possible, if you want it, and only if you want it.

Some people do not think it's right to give the WS a pass on the A. It's an entirely reasonable stance to take. If you take that stance, however, my reco is to change your stance or D, because R doesn't won't work unless you give your W's A a pass.

Some people see R as eating a 'shit sandwich'. I don't see R that way at all; if I did, I wouldn't have R'ed. I think the 'shit sandwich' view comes from thinking the A is more about the BS than I do - I suspect it's an insult that can't be accepted. I experience so many insults from modern society that the insult of an A is almost unique in that the WS can actually redeem herself and thereby make up for it. I just have to accept the insults from media, advertisements, employers, employees, politicians, etc.

I'm more concerned with getting what I want than with outrage at insults. My W's A was a crime against herself, against me, and against our M. It's private, and I don't think I'm hurting our culture by giving her a pass on her A - but without her work, I would not be willing to stay in our M. She cheated. I chose not to cheat. I'm OK with that.

So figure out what you want, who you are, and whether or not you think your W looks like she'll stay the course. Decide how much uncertainty you can live with. Enjoy Italy. Make your choices.

I think https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/ explains a lot of what to look for from one's WS. The closer your W looks to the remorseful WS, the more likely R is, if you want it. Of course, the farther away she is, the less likely R will be.

You're absolutely on point in thinking about the long term rather than tomorrow.

If you're interested in R, you will have to devote a long time to working before you find out what the resuts are. It took me 3.5-4 years before I was ready to declare victory - and, of course, I still might have to deal with betrayal by my W in the future.

For me, the decision to R was based on a few factors: 1) we had had very good times for decades before the A; 2) I thought we could get back to a very good M that would continue to get better as time went on; 3) I thought my W would do her work and I would do mine. So far, I'm happier than I thought I would be - and I thought I'd be very happy.

So a good R is very good indeed, and your W shows evidence she might do it. Her A ... well, it was shorter than my W's, and her whole relationship was shorter than my W's. My W was more deceptive ... I asked her at least 3 times if she was cheating, and she convinced me she wasn't all 3 times. It was, in some ways, more sexual.

Comparing As isn't generally useful, but this thread has gone into that, at least the way I read it, so I thought it would be OK to go into that.

Your MC made a reco in the shock of d-day and then re-thought it. She looks like an effective MC, even so, and I see no reason to change. My reco is: If you think the trip will be satisfying, go. If you think you won't be able to focus on the here and now within the context of being a few weeks out (from d-day), I suspect cancelling would be a good idea. Using the time to be on your own may get you an answer to the question, 'What do you want?' - and that is one of THE crucial questions. No matter what, however, you're likely to obsess about the A for some of the time, wherever you are.

I reco not committing to R just yet. Use a few (3? 6?) months to test your W. If she makes contact with om during your trip, that's a big fail; if she doesn't, it's a small win. If om contacts her and she quickly rebuffs him, that is probably a bigger win - neither she nor you can control his behavior, so I don't count an ap's attempt to break NC against the WS, unless the WS responds by continuing contact. There are other tests, too - if your W lies, it's negative for R. If she refuses to answer a question, it's negative for R. If she ueges you to get over it, it's negative for R. (I personally accepted, 'Can I not answer until we're in an MC session?' If you get that, you'll have to choose to accept or reject it.)

Honesty is the key to recovery and R, IMO. My W began answering questions immediately on d-day. It took me a long while to realize that she had committed to honesty - I've heard no lies since before d-day.

All you really need is honesty - that won't guarantee R, but it will guarantee no more betrayals, and I think it will guarantee an amicable D.

To R, I think it's necessary - and at least helpful - to think about the future, not about the A. The A might have been awful if your W had just kissed the guy; it would have been awful if it had been an ONS. There's no question that D is an option open to you.

But what matters to your M really is the future. Will your W stay the course to change from cheater to good partner? If so, R is possible, if you want it, and only if you want it.

Some people do not think it's right to give the WS a pass on the A. It's an entirely reasonable stance to take. If you take that stance, however, my reco is to change your stance or D, because R doesn't won't work unless you give your W's A a pass.

Some people see R as eating a 'shit sandwich'. I don't see R that way at all; if I did, I wouldn't have R'ed. I think the 'shit sandwich' view comes from thinking the A is more about the BS than I do - I suspect it's an insult that can't be accepted. I experience so many insults from modern society that the insult of an A is almost unique in that the WS can actually redeem herself and thereby make up for it. I just have to accept the insults from media, advertisements, employers, employees, politicians, etc.

I'm more concerned with getting what I want than with outrage at insults. My W's A was a crime against herself, against me, and against our M. It's private, and I don't think I'm hurting our culture by giving her a pass on her A - but without her work, I would not be willing to stay in our M. She cheated. I chose not to cheat. I'm OK with that.

So figure out what you want, who you are, and whether or not you think your W looks like she'll stay the course. Decide how much uncertainty you can live with. Enjoy Italy. Make your choices.

I think https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/ explains a lot of what to look for from one's WS. The closer your W looks to the remorseful WS, the more likely R is, if you want it. Of course, the farther away she is, the less likely R will be.

This was really helpful to read. I do need to figure out what I want. Right now, I think I'm capable of getting over the physical aspect of the affair, but only if we are fighting for a relationship with no secrecy. I want all cards on the table and I want to feel like we're on the same team against the world. I need to see that from her.

"The Karma Bus"

Although running the Karma bus over the AP can be extremely gratifying and perhaps helpful to your healing and affect the consequences and justice that is necessary to keep the world spinning correctly on a proper axis…

it is not the primary, or even a secondary or tertiary, reason for informing the OBS.

That is probably why your CT can’t endorse it. It would be unprofessional for a counselor to support retribution as a form of healthful therapy.

Just keep in mind, you’re NOT informing the OBS for retribution. You’re doing it for very pragmatic tactical reasons:

-To foster possible collaboration with OBS of intel, NC and fact gathering.

-Because it’s moral and ethical. Her life and mental and financial welfare are in danger. She has a right to know.

-To divert the AP’s attentions from your wife and marriage back onto the preservation of his wife and marriage.

-To observe your WW’s reactions to the disclosure. To determine if she’s in covert contact with the AP. To observe if she’s sympathetic to the AP vs empathetic towards the OBS. To observe how she processes the disclosure. If she shows more concern for her and her AP than she does for you and the OBS or if she becomes angry at you, would all be a red flag 🚩.

-To help collapse the exclusive magical romantic Affair Bubble with its soft focus, glamour glow, sunsets and any residue of secret reminiscences and sentimentality of any forbidden splendor or Don Henley Boys Of Summer like visions.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:27 PM, Sunday, March 27th]

Echo what Reality Blows says above.

You say:

Right now, I think I'm capable of getting over the physical aspect of the affair, but only if we are fighting for a relationship with no secrecy.

Right now, you are complicit with both your WW and the AP in keeping a secret from the OBS, a secret that involves life-altering information that she would almost certainly be grateful to know.

The one piece OP has left out, but keeps noting he will eventually post (because it has some bearing he says), is his snd his WW’s past sexual history.

You're right, so let's do it. I've been putting it off because I know this is going to need to be a very long post, but I also know it's critical to framing our relationship--I also am eager to get this all out in the open with the CT, but we just haven't had the time yet.

First, very briefly, my wife. Her first serious BF in high school cheated on her shortly before college. She was living in London with her family and heading over to the states for school, so she arrived in a very bad spot mentally--heartbroken, devalued, and an ocean away from her family. The result was the loose sexual relationships her freshman year--men in her dorm passing her around after the bars, multiple pregnancy scares; just an overall spiral. She was a VERY attractive girl with no self-esteem, so the story writes itself.

Her female friends turned on her sophomore year--an ill-conceived intervention--and she was left feeling judged and totally alone. We met years later, and frankly I didn't treat her well at first, and I'll cover that in my history below. We were fuck buddies and she liked me as more. She was sexually adventurous with me at first almost certainly to keep my attention (which mirrors how she handled this affair). By the end of college we were exclusive and over the following years we moved in together and her sex drive plummeted. She attributed it to being fired from two jobs and a car accident that led to anxiety and panic attacks. She saw a therapist, who tried to put her on medication within minutes of meeting her. It was a negative experience and she tried to handle it herself (limiting coffee, long hot showers, etc.).

Our sex life radically changed--she had no sex drive and was pained by intercourse. This past fall, when she met the other guy, it was the first time in 15~ years she felt a spark that got her juices flowing. And she pursued it.

Now for me...

I was a nerd in high school--terribly dressed, glasses by 10th grade, focused on video games. I went to an all boy catholic school and had virtually no interaction with women. All of my friends were super smart and we were very close. I was the alpha of the group though--all plans went through me. I had an infatuation with my friends younger sister my entire high school life--it was unreciprocated, but I was too much of a loser to make much of a move anyway. My best high school nights were spent sitting next to her on a couch while we watched movies.

My senior year in high school one of the girl's friends took aim on me. She ended up being my first kiss (I had just turned 18). I wasn't interested though--and I told her I only had eyes for the other girl.

I went off to college and fell into a completely different friends group. They were normal guys, all much "cooler" than I was. My status changed from leader of a friends group to the bottom of the ladder, but they were good guys. I started partying with them almost every night and my lifestyle changed rapidly. I'd kissed a few (unattractive) girls at bars, but my heart was still with my high school friend's younger sister.

I was still a huge loser, but by the second semester of my freshman year at college, I had the confidence to make my move on the girl back home. She shut me down hard--she just saw me as a friend.

Within weeks, my life changed drastically. I remember feeling consumed by revenge--I felt like she had taken years of my life (which in retrospect is insane). I bought an entirely new wardrobe, got contact lenses, changed my hair, started lifting weights every day. Within months, I looked like a different person--I went from a 4/10 to an 8/10 by my first summer back home from school.

And I sent off to fuck all her closest friends--literally, that's what I did. I went from being completely sexually clueless to sleeping with a bunch of high school girls for revenge. I was an awful person and I've spent my entire adult life regretting that time in my life.

I went through the rest of college having various fuck buddies for a few months at a time--I wanted to focus on partying with my male friends, but wanted a girl to have sex with a few times a week. That was the extent of all my college relationships with women (I had one other girl in my life I really liked, but I don't want to derail the point of this post).

My senior year of college, while I was seeing my wife casually, I was also seeing a few other girls. One of them, one night, came over to my place, leaving a party early to come meet me. I gave her oral sex and I hadn't cum in several days; I came in my pants while doing it. I started exploring what happened mentally--I was turned on being submissive in that moment. I came just from servicing her. It was something I wanted to explore, and did through porn.

I also began asking that girl to tell me about other sexual encounters she had. It turned me on to know she was having these slutty sexual encounters with others guys and then I was giving her oral sex. I explored my submissive side with several girls from my past, who were all willing to entertain it because they liked me--I essentially had the power to "top from the bottom" (I think that's the phrase).

At first, I didn't bring it up to my wife because it was embarrassing and I was developing real feelings for her. However, as our relationship became more serious, the chats with these other girls became problematic. While it felt innocent on my end because I had no emotional or physical connection with them, they all still wanted to have sex with me. The temptation was not something I could deal with while building a relationship with my wife, so I went cold turkey with all of them.

I tried to introduce the fetish to my wife, but she wasn't interested. Her sexual past was not a point of fun for her, it was a point of pain and deep shame. That led me in some strange directions--I began looking to talk with strangers on the internet--girls from all over the world just so I could explore this part of my sexuality--I just needed them to not live nearby because I didn't want any temptation to have a physical relationship.

I'd even open up to my wife about it sporadically throughout our marriage, but she didn't seem to care, so I took that as validation it was harmless. I ended up developing "friendships" with two different girls who lived far away and who I wasn't attracted to. I ended up exploring this fetish with them by creating a scenario that I was in a cuckold relationship--essentially, I'd be telling them about my wife having sex with other men and getting their feedback, which would get me off. I disliked how porn would make me feel after viewing it and my wife wasn't interested in sex, so this was a key outlet for me over the years.

With my wife, her disdain of sex led us to alter our relationship over the years. We'd have sex probably 15-20x a year, but we would fool around 2-3x a week with oral and fingers. For the last 5+ years, a big part of our sex life was me giving her oral sex and cuming in my boxers. It seemed like the only sex act she really enjoyed and I was able to make it mentally stimulating to me because of the cuckold fetish. I even began to document our sexlife on a sex forum as a way to get behind the mental stimulation of it all.

That takes us to the last few months--I was still talking with one of the online girls (we've now known each other for probably 15 years, but there have been lots of gaps in our communication). As far as she knows, I'm in a cuckold relationship and I still tell her about my wife's fake adventures on occasion.

The twisted part of it all is the guy my wife had the affair with, I worked him into one of my fake stories with her. I always used people from our real life and pretended my wife was fucking them (with my knowledge).

Now, my wife didn't know the specifics, but she was aware of my various fetishes and that I spoke with girls online at times to meet sexual needs she wasn't interested in. I also should point out, I have fetishes on the dominant side too, but those were always suppressed in my marriage because my wife was so uninterested in sex. Essentially, the cuckold one is the fetish I had freedom to explore with my wife without my wife's consent--she just had to happily lie there while I gave her oral, blissfully ignorant to how fucked up I was.

I should also make it clear that 2-3x a year I'd sit my wife down and try to talk this shit through with her--I don't want to paint a picture that this was all in secret. She'd just shutdown though and the talks were very negative and unproductive.

Now, she claims none of this madness had anything to do with her affair, but that doesn't seem believable. I also want to note that my feelings for the fetish are all fucked up now. I used to be able to jerk off to cheating porn and that's now out the window--I'm way to hurt to do that again I think.

A big question is how I would have handled the affair if she took me along for the ride with her. If she was telling me she met a guy on PTA, flirting, etc. Would I have shut it down or embraced it to explore our sexuality together? I honestly don't know. But over the years she has always seemingly been honest when guys hit on her, reporting back to me. And I tease her back about it in a positive way. She was still doing it during the affair, just ignoring the affaire and any male attention she was getting in town (there was another PTA guy heavily hitting on her these last few months that she kept from me as well).

Obviously we had serious communication and trust problems running rampant in our relationship from both of us and the affair was just a manifestation of it. My moral compass prevented me from being open to an emotional or physical relationship because of our marriage and children; hers didn't.

I know this post is going to generate a lot of follow up, so I'll leave it here for now--happy to clarify anything though. And again, I really appreciate all the interest you've taken in my thread.

Wow. That truly IS complicated.

But none of it is justification, in my mind, for her affair.

In reading it, it reinforces to me that you should also be in IC, yes for the trauma inflicted from her cheating, but also for your own issues over the years.

I hope you seriously consider doing that.

Is she aware that you are still talking to one of these women? Does she approve of it?

Now, she claims none of this madness had anything to do with her affair, but that doesn't seem believable.

Assuming she knows and doesn't care about it, it really doesn't have anything to do with you. If she thought that you would be okay with it, she would not have hid it. I think she is ashamed that for all these years, she lost her sex drive with you and then found it again with this OM. It sounds like there were thoughts, feelings, and excitement that she shared with him in a way that she couldn't or wouldn't share with you. That's not your fault. It's an issue within herself that she needs to address otherwise her sex drive will tank again once hysterical bonding wears off.

Now, my wife didn't know the specifics, but she was aware of my various fetishes and that I spoke with girls online at times to meet sexual needs she wasn't interested in. I also should point out, I have fetishes on the dominant side too, but those were always suppressed in my marriage because my wife was so uninterested in sex.

Your wife was not uninterested in sex - she is just uninterested in sex with you, as she has clearly demonstrated her high sexual appetite with her AP. As another poster said, HB will soon wear off and her sex drive will go back to zero again.

Essentially, the cuckold one is the fetish I had freedom to explore with my wife without my wife's consent--she just had to happily lie there while I gave her oral, blissfully ignorant to how fucked up I was.

It's likely your wife does not desire you sexually, and is happy to simply use you like a sex toy to pleasure herself. Moreover, your wife appears to lack any empathy for your sexual needs at all - its all about her pleasure. It's quite possible that your wife brushed off your efforts at communicating your sexual preferences as her needs were met elsewhere. You have assumed that this was her first and only transgression, but you 'don't know what you don't know'. I would recommend a polygraph to establish whether there have been past infidelities on her part. You need to ensure you have all the relevant information - your 'discovery' phase is still incomplete.

Wow. That truly IS complicated.

But none of it is justification, in my mind, for her affair.

In reading it, it reinforces to me that you should also be in IC, yes for the trauma inflicted from her cheating, but also for your own issues over the years.

I hope you seriously consider doing that.

Yes, I'm looking into my own IC now--but there is an issue of cost for us to see three therapists. I may wait a few more weeks, seeing the CT, then circle back on this after I return from Italy.

Is she aware that you are still talking to one of these women? Does she approve of it?

Assuming she knows and doesn't care about it, it really doesn't have anything to do with you. If she thought that you would be okay with it, she would not have hid it. I think she is ashamed that for all these years, she lost her sex drive with you and then found it again with this OM. It sounds like there were thoughts, feelings, and excitement that she shared with him in a way that she couldn't or wouldn't share with you. That's not your fault. It's an issue within herself that she needs to address otherwise her sex drive will tank again once hysterical bonding wears off.

Yes, she's aware, though I haven't talked with the other girl as we recover from this. Truthfully, I have no interest in talking with her anymore and I'd like to just go cold turkey on it. I talked with her as a way of making my real sexlife more exciting and I have no emotional connection with her; I was sharing a fake life and exploring a kink. I knew all along it was unhealthy and I see that even more right now.

Her sex drive with me when we met was similar to her sex drive in her affair. In the affair, she was free of all of life's burdens and the various resentments we each had toward each other. With the other guy, she was free to forget me, her job and the kids and just be mentally clear to enjoy sex. With me, there's too much weight and she can't feel free. During our HB over the last 10 days, she's been much more free again--but I understand that won't last, so it'll come down to her progress in therapy.

Also, and it seems obvious, we need to structure date nights where we leave the house more often and do small getaways with just us. We didn't put any work into keeping our sexual chemistry alive and I just resented her for her lack of interest. If she's willing to meet me halfway, there's a future where we have a very fun and fulfilling sexlife.

So I assume some of these women you've been messaging over the last 2 decades have been married.

Now it makes sense that you don't want to tell the OBS.

You've been an OM. Probably more than a few times. You don't feel bad for their husbands,or feel their husbands deserve to know. Therefore,you don't feel the OBS of your wife's OM deserves to know. These OBS are merely objects, not people.

Your wife was not uninterested in sex - she is just uninterested in sex with you, as she has clearly demonstrated her high sexual appetite with her AP. As another poster said, HB will soon wear off and her sex drive will go back to zero again.

That's what we're gonna find out. If that's the case, it'll make a decision on R vs. D very simple because there's no scenario I go back to my old sex life at this point.

My sense though is that she really just needed two things:

1) a sense of romance and sexuality in our relationship;

2) Me to take a more dominant role in the bedroom--I was a doormat for her in bed over the last five years and she lost a sexual desire in me. I've seen it now with our HB--I'm taking control and pushing her boundaries (I'll keep it PG!) and she's responding to it with excitement.

Again, she may ultimately just not be sexually attracted to me anymore and this is all a waste of time, but if there's a future where we develop and sustain great sexual chemistry, along with trust, then being with the mother of my children is a preferable outcome.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 9:18 PM, Sunday, March 27th]

So I assume some of these women you've been messaging over the last 2 decades have been married.

Now it makes sense that you don't want to tell the OBS.

You've been an OM. Probably more than a few times. You don't feel bad for their husbands, or feel their husbands deserve to know. Therefore, you don't feel the OBS of your wife's OM deserves to know. These OBS are merely objects, not people.

I've never had a sexual conversation with a married woman (well, one exception, but the husband was involved).

Your assumption that I have, followed by your judgement, is in line with the obnoxious tone of many of your posts--you've been largely unhelpful. I feel deep empathy for the affaire's wife and that's why I've decided to tell her. I'm just following my process rather than yours, a random guy on the internet. I wish you the best in your life moving forward though. Sincerely.

Doc…

It sounds like her affair and your fetishes-EA’s(?) are all a symptom of a deeper issue(s) dynamic that has evolved between you two.

It seems, you two have brought unresolved personal preexisting issues into your relationship, and then those issues coalesced into a dysfunctional relationship dynamic?

Let’s start with her. From your account, it seems as though sex, to her, has become a tool-more or less, to get: instant and easy shallow physical NSA gratification; a shallow and temporizing escape; to get validation; a temporary salve for loneliness or heartbreak; or to keep a partner happy.

She has, somewhere along the way of life, disassociated sex from love.

A disassociation of sex from love can be caused and reinforced by various traumas and experiences.

I’m talking Sex vs tender, bonding, reaffirming, intimate marital love making.

Could your fetishes have reinforced her disassociation of sex from love?

Did your relationship ever evolve past “Fuck Buddies” to a more profoundly intimate marriage?

Now, I AM NOT GIVING HER A PASS ON INFIDELITY or blaming her choice to cheat, on you. Her choice to resolve her issues, or any unmet needs in the marriage and within herself with cheating is a personal dysfunction that she owns entirely and must fix, as a priority over the marital issues.

This is an infidelity forum and sex therapy is way outside of our skill set.

I think you two would benefit from intensive couples sex therapy, in addition to IC, and may even provide for a profound personal and relationship breakthrough along these lines.

A good therapist can get you two on a new level of intimacy. I’m talking intellectual intimacy followed subsequently by a deeper physical intimacy.

Fetishes are innocent and can even be fun and healthy for a relationship IF…

everyone is completely onboard; the fetish comes from a healthy place; is not abusive; and the fetish doesn’t inadvertently foment resentment or exacerbate a preexisting unresolved issue or trauma.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:47 PM, Sunday, March 27th]

ok

It seems now that you are ok with your wife cheating on you but with communication. I agree with the others that this is co-dependency. But it's worse.

Good luck to you.

Get what you want out of this marriage. But I am no open relationship guy.

I think you are on a slippery slope. But anyway, good luck

[This message edited by Western at 10:36 AM, Monday, March 28th]

Doc…

It sounds like her affair and your fetishes-EA’s(?) are all a symptom of a deeper issue(s) dynamic that has evolved between you two.

It seems, you two have brought unresolved personal preexisting issues into your relationship, and then those issues coalesced into a dysfunctional relationship dynamic?

Let’s start with her. From your account, it seems as though sex, to her, has become a tool-more or less, to get: instant and easy shallow physical NSA gratification; a shallow and temporizing escape; to get validation; a temporary salve for loneliness or heartbreak; or to keep a partner happy.

She has, somewhere along the way of life, disassociated sex from love.

A disassociation of sex from love can be caused and reinforced by various traumas and experiences.

I’m talking Sex vs tender, bonding, reaffirming, intimate marital love making.

Could your fetishes have reinforced her disassociation of sex from love?

Did your relationship ever evolve past "Fuck Buddies" to a more profoundly intimate marriage?

Now, I AM NOT GIVING HER A PASS ON INFIDELITY or blaming her choice to cheat, on you. Her choice to resolve her issues, or any unmet needs in the marriage and within herself with cheating is a personal dysfunction that she owns entirely and must fix, as a priority over the marital issues.

This is an infidelity forum and sex therapy is way outside of our skill set.

I think you two would benefit from intensive couples sex therapy, in addition to IC, and may even provide for a profound personal and relationship breakthrough along these lines.

A good therapist can get you two on a new level of intimacy. I’m talking intellectual intimacy followed subsequently by a deeper physical intimacy.

Fetishes are innocent and can even be fun and healthy for a relationship IF…

everyone is completely onboard; the fetish comes from a healthy place; is not abusive; and the fetish doesn’t inadvertently foment resentment or exacerbate a preexisting unresolved issue or trauma.

That is a profound post regarding my wife’s disassociation of sex and love. I think you are likely right and that will be a good discussion point for us as we continue to peel back the onion.

My life is good,so thank you. I've been reconciled for over a decade.

Sorry about the assumption. I assumed wrong. I figured since you were married,and engaging with women online, you didn't really care if the OW were married as well.

I tend to be blunt. I don't sugarcoat. I figure,by the time a BS shows up here, they've been lied to enough. There are plenty of people here who will pat you on the back,and worry about making sure they word things so as not to upset you. Which is great,and very much needed. While I do feel empathetic, I also feel there are some non negotiable steps a BS needs to do in the immediate aftermath. I believe I gave you a list of what some of thise requirements should be. I'm sorry you found that unhelpful. And,yes, I push for the OBS to be told. They deserve the truth about their spouse, as you do. It's also extremely helpful to YOU, and your marriage, for you to tell. I'm sorry you found that unhelpful.

Since you find me obnoxious, I will leave this thread. Good luck to you.