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You are doing very well as you navigate this shitstorm. Your list is eminently reasonable. Things that I have noticed in your posts. Your WW has not attempted to blame you, her friends, her AP or anyone else for her infidelity. This is similar to other WS who have grasped real shame upon confrontation.
Watch her actions. If she sets out immediately to do the things you have listed, without prodding or hesitation, she is showing motivation without wallowing in her own guilt. Her focus needs to be on your pain, not on her own guilt. Of course, even if she is remorseful, it does not mean you must R. R is a gift only you can grant, and you are under no obligation to do so. I have been around here long enough to know there are occasions when the WS, both male and female in good M’s, act insane and totally out of character, purely selfish infidelity without regard for their partner, and when confronted collapse. Is this your WW? Who knows. Others have wisely advised you to be skeptical and wary. All I am adding is my own observations of what you have shared. Her actions have been immensely hurtful to you. There is no justification for infidelity.

Take care of you. You will get through this. Good luck.

Man I just gotta say, I’m sure it doesn’t seem like it being right in the middle of it but you are approaching this 100% correct. You haven’t made a single misstep since discovery.

Everything is going to suck for quite awhile, but you’re going to be ok no matter what. Keep yourself
In a position of strength at all times. Always keep the upper hand.
Man it’s been a long time since I’ve been here :)

Is the AP married? You would want to add one more item on her list about sending an apology note to his wife.

If her two friends that encouraged the affair are married, you might want to let their spouses know. It’s possible they are cheating too. You might want to also confirm that there were no other affairs your wife indulged in besides this. It is concerning that her longtime friends have been like this. They are probably covering for each other.

I would hold off on getting too many sexual details, positions etc etc. That will haunt you and cause pain. If you decide to try R, it will be difficult. if you D, your goal is to heal and this might impact you forever.

I understand you had a tough childhood, and this is another blow. But you are strong and there’s no reason that you should suffer anymore. You are in control of your life irrespective of whether you R or D. You have a lot to be proud of and look forward to. So don’t let any of this weigh you down. Process and grieve , get a IC for yourself, build more positive connections and friendships.

I second telling the husband's of your WW'S friends, but ibwould caution them about being strategic in how they investigate their own partners. Rather than just confront, I wud encourage them to educate themselves as you did and not raise the topic hastily. Otherwise, if there are affairs, they will go underground.

Just Crushed, I just went through your post again to make sure I had the details right. I have a couple of questions. First, do you know what she told her parents on their 50th anniversary? Do you know if she has had any contact with AP since Dday? Do you know if AP is married? I also have some comments. I would add the text exchange between them for polygraph with the idea of finding out if she was lying to you when she said she was only telling him what he wanted to her. You can’t help but wonder when she does that to you. This might be a question for polygraph for your second one. The one about your relationship. I would also add that she must understand why she did this to you. Of course IDK is not acceptable. She will be unique if she can answer this today but it is a task with consequences. Your wife’s betrayal is as hurtful as any I I can remember with the length of your marriage. She seemingly treated you with such disrespect in her communication with AP. I can completely understand if you cannot get past this. And trying to R will not mean that it will be successful. Her betrayal is just horrendous. But, she does seem remorseful from what you said. I think I would need to have answers to everything mentioned above but let’s assume they are positive, I could see the possibility of trying for R. But the decision whether to R or D should be awhile from now. Keep holding her feet to the fire and see how she responds. From what you’ve said I can believe that she does love you. Believing she respects you is more challenging. You are light years ahead of where I was a few days in after Dday. Keep doing what your doing. Take care of your health. I wish you nothing but whatever you truly desire.

[This message edited by Dennylast at 6:21 AM, Tuesday, March 5th]

Things have been going around at a tremendous pace. A lot of your responses have been in reaction to the trauma that you are going through. The way that you are interacting. The emotions that you are feeling. Every time that you are in the presence of your WW, she becomes a catalyst for all these turmoils.

You have taken control of the situation, which is the best scenario.

My advice would be to get some physical separation between you and your WW. You have a lot of hurt and anger in you that will be hard to control. This is natural. However, things are going to be said and done that you may regret. Also, keeping yourself in this 'cooker' of emotions will have a life long effect on you moving forward.

Does she have somewhere else where she can stay? Separation will also allow you space so that you can think more clearly. So that you can make the best choices moving forward. The '180' is valuable for you throughout any interaction from here on. It allows you to create space so that you can detach and make better choices.

In my angry phase, I ripped up our wedding document. We have somewhat reconciled and this kind of haunts me.

God bless.

Hello Friend:

I’ve not posted on SI in a while, but I do have a couple of thoughts to share with you.

First, as to the two conversation threads you cite. There has been a lot of colloquy about whether she meant it or not, whether she was lying to him, etc. In the end, none of that matters. What matters is that she was injecting energy and imagination into giving sexual pleasure to another man at your expense, even from your marital bed on your anniversary. Clearly this was a considered and deliberate choice by her, made because she derived enjoyment and pleasure from it. She chose to make you the unwitting brunt of demeaning jokes about your dick, about your sexual prowess, etc., because it added spice to her sexual life with another man. This reality is underscored by the fact that her two besties knew of the affair even while socializing with you. Imagine how the three cackled with conspiratorial glee behind your back.

It doesn’t actually matter if the stuff your WW said to the AP is factually true or not (i.e. if your length and girth are average or above). It also won’t matter that she now says that was all an act. Telling him what he wanted to hear. In fact, that’s the point: she was deliberately telling him what he wanted to hear, at your expense, for the purpose of making sex with the AP more exciting. If it was an act with the AP, do you really think that, after the dust settles, you could ever believe her if/when she turns that same act towards you, fawning over your dick and moaning that you’ve got the best dick she’s ever had, that she’s never wanted another man’s dick as much as she craves yours? You never will. Conversely, if it was real with the AP, will you ever find a path past the emasculation and sexual humiliation in the context of remaining married to her? You never will. That train has left the station, period.

By the way, the details we know already (the conversation threads, the fact that her two long-time friends knew of the affair and socialized with you, etc.), evince a pretty high degree of contempt that she directed your way via this affair. My gut tells me it’s the tip of the iceberg. If she is actually honest, I would expect that you will learn about stuff like sex in the marital bed while you were away, sloppy seconds brought home to you (that she later joked about with her AP), depriving you of sex for the AP’s benefit, etc. This thread feels like it’s headed in that direction.

Who does that? Who chooses to be that cruel, even to a person they don’t like? Never mind a spouse, a man who raised her daughters as his own and otherwise gave the best of himself to her? To that end, my sense is that the timing isn't coincidental. You've said the daughters are now 19, away at college. You've said the affair started about half a year ago. Right after the daughters moved out, presumably. In other words, what she saw in you at the outset -- a steady, hardworking man who would be a reliable helpmate and supportive stepfather -- is no longer needed. Your WW, like most women, knows that picking up up a new man is easy to do. For most women, it's as easy as breathing air. The fact that it happened so promptly after the daughters left, on a GNO, with the knowledge and complicity of her besties, it feels deliberate. Planned even. It smacks of her simply deciding that it's time to discard you because her need for what you bring has reached its end.

There’s something deeply broken in your WW’s moral compass. Like so broken she would insult your dick to another man because it gives that man sexual pleasure. The whole structure of the affair smacks of a person with profoundly situational ethics. She'll tell AP what he wants to hear; she'll tell you what you want to hear; she won't mean any of it. You should ask yourself whether, now that you have seen a glimpse of the depth of the reservoir of cruelty within her, is she really a person you wish to remain married to.

Which brings me to my second point: right now, whilst she is wallowing in the pit of despair and the muck of self-loathing, as the reality of her little fantasy is presenting itself to her like a hot kiss at the end of a cold fist, right now is the ONE time in history in which you have emotional leverage to wrest the mot favorable divorce settlement from her. In her desperation to feel like less of the profoundly shyte human she is currently recognizing herself to be, she is willing to give you almost anything if she can feel even just a modicum of absolution from the giving. That won’t last, my friend. I don't believe I've ever come across a thread where the adage "strike while the iron is hot" is more apt. Her emotional roller coaster will settle down, just as yours will. Keep in mind that she has been lying, scheming, calculating, etc., for a long time. It’s her normal, and she’s good at it. Better than you. She is miles ahead of you in terms of scheming. It’s likely she has long ago figured out her Plan B.

Also, I have to believe that there is a kernel of subjective truth to the expressions of sexual contempt she uttered about you to the AP. An opportunist who uses people. In the words of that great song by Steel Pulse, "A hungry heart can know no love." Her heart will re-harden eventually. The longer you stay married to her, the deeper her sense of entitlement will take root. You divorce in two years, I almost guarantee you’ll find yourself facing a knock-down, drag-out with a hard-fighting foe. For example, do you really think there is even a minute likelihood she will give up her besties just to preserve domestic peace? Ain’t happening, my friend. She’ll start fawning and pleading: "They were uncomfortable. They didn’t feel they could choose sides." Etc. All the usual bullshit. Those besties are in your life as long as you remain married to your WW.

Normally on SI people recommend taking time before making major decisions. But each situation calls for its own strategy. Here, my gut is that in the long run you won’t be able to choke down the unvarnished contempt she directed toward you for the specific purpose of pleasing another man sexually. As I said, it doesn’t matter whether that was sincere or ersatz; what matters is that she wanted to say and do those things to please another man. I think it’s inevitable that you’ll decide to divorce at some point.

The difference is that in the long run she won’t be a compliant participant in an amicable divorce that results in a favorable settlement for you. My strongest possible advice is to go directly to D, as quickly as you can. Press for a stipulated settlement. Ask for the moon. Get ‘er done.

By the way, in the long run, after you’ve been single for a time and enjoyed the sweet taste of sex with somebody new, somebody who hasn’t stabbed you in the back, somebody who doesn’t want anything from you other than an evening in bed, you’re free to enter into a FWB relationship with your WW. You could even remarry her if you choose. Divorce isn’t the end of things if you don’t want it to be. It is, however, a punctuation mark that bookends your financial future in the event that your relationship with your WW dissolves, which I predict it will.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:43 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I learned going through this was that I did not know what I was not able to conceive in mind. I was not able to conceive the depth of the planning, lies, betrayal, thoughts, contempt, disrespect etc. because I never thought of my XW in that manner. I guess it is a bit like an iceberg analogy, you see something but cannot see beneath the water line.

One of the best ways I was able to see the reality of the situation was to bring everything into the open.

Their GNO events seem like something that is in desperate need of being brought into the open with the husbands of these "friends" of your wife. I doubt this type of behavior was just confined to your wife especially if some as you said were "cheerleaders". At a bare minimum this action should prevent the friends from being in your circle in the future.

These text exchanges which we all want to believe can the mitigated or explained away unfortunately most likely falls into the iceberg analogy category. She took pleasure in denigrating you to the OM, and did it at least twice. How many more times is unknown, verbal or otherwise.

It appears you are controlled and disciplined person thus the "responsible" and "safe" guy. I would like to suggest to you start thinking of yourself more often. You appear from your writing to have been the supplicant in your relationship, now that should change.

[This message edited by hardyfool at 2:33 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

Water under the bridge I know, but I did not notice the visit with her parents was for their 50th anniversary - so to the extent you did not require her to out herself at that moment good on you. There are times and places for this - it shows your character even more to know that you opted out of ruining their anniversary. She can, and should, tell them another day.

OP. I urge you to read Butforthegrace's post above. Then read it again. It is the single best piece of advice I've seen on this or any other board. At present your wife is compliant or seemingly so. You have a window of opportunity to amass all the info you need and to get the best outcome possible. As time goes on, she will tire of her promises and grow resentful of the controls she agreed to. You indicated that you are leaning toward D and I think you should move quickly on that front or at least get your ducks in a row for that eventuality. The threat of D is a lever you now hold, but that lever will shorten as time goes on.

I would also like to say that you've handled this terrible situation as well as anyone could have. You project strength and determination in the face of extreme betrayal by someone you've loved and trusted. You're a strong man and will see this through to better days I'm sure.

Hi JC,

I am sorry for what you are going through, and I hope you know that you are in the thoughts of everyone here, all of whom have walked their own version of the path you are now treading, through no wish of your own.

You have had loads of good advice, and you are taking solid, positive actions. Reaching a decision must be done in a timeframe that suits you, and it will take time for your thoughts and feelings to settle and coalesce into something that feels 'true' to you.

Without focusing on individual incidents or details, I think the people who suggest you should be wary/sceptical, and 'listen' to actions rather than words make a very important point. My gut feeling is that your wife may be a 'people pleaser', who says and does things because she thinks it will make someone happy, rather than because it comes from the heart. We can all be guilty of that, and sometimes it is hard not to fall into the trap of doing things because we know someone else wants us to. However, if we do it too much, we end up living a life that is not 'true' or 'authentic'.

The incident with the card you selected, in which your wife professed great love for you as a soulmate, which she gave to you in between dates with her AP, illustrates the problem perfectly. When she is dealing with you, she says things she thinks will please you. When she was with him, she said things that threw you under a bus to please him. When you gave her a long and potentially very challenging list of changes to be made, including throwing the AP under a bus, and throwing two toxic lifelong friends under a bus, she agreed to everything, because it was what you wanted.

My point is that it is horribly easy to say what someone wants to hear when you are with them, but a lot harder to stand by those statements if they do not come from the heart.

In the course of the affair, you wife was prepared to betray you and give her allegiance/worship to the AP, throwing you under a bus when she was with him. Then prepared to throw him under a bus when you understandably demanded that. She was prepared to embark on an affair with the approval and encouragement of two 'lifelong' friends, who she is now prepared to throw under a bus because you have, perfectly reasonably, demanded that. All of which raises the question of whether she knows how to be 'loyal' to another person, because you, the AP, and her 'friends' have all alternated between being treated well or thrown under a bus by your wife, depending on who she was with at the time.

I think that the biggest challenges your wife faces are to stop people pleasing, to develop a strong 'no' and solid boundaries to support it, and to start living with a level of integrity that requires making people unhappy if the situation demands it. At the moment, she seems much too ready to compromise and cave in to please whoever she is with at any given time.

Please take good care of yourself, JC. As I said at the start, our thoughts are with you, and we wish the best for you.

[This message edited by M1965 at 2:17 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

Butforthegrace... Excellent Post above.

JustCrushed... I hope you are feeling well today. I recommend that you read and re-read Butforthegrace's post above. Print it out, keep it with you, and read it every few days.

(Sammich... seems we were both typing the same thing at the same time).

As Butforthegrace said, a divorce is not the end of your relationship with her. I had a second cousin who divorced his wife for adultery. They remarried a few years later and had a good life together. A fellow I played high school basketball with married his HS sweetheart. He cheated on her and she divorced him. They kept in touch and remarried later down the road. I haven't seen him now in almost 20 years, but the last time I visited with them they seemed very happy.

Granted these instances are rare as hen's teeth, but they do happen.

Butforthegrace recommended immediate divorce filing and for good reason. Those people who file immediately seem to get better divorce situations that those who wait and do it later on. As he said, after the dust settles her heart will harden. We know she is selfish, otherwise she would not have betrayed you with another man. Each day that passes, with her nature, she is going to think about how she can come out best out of a bad situation. She can't help herself.

Again, good luck to you.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 2:21 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

WELL DONE OP! You’re going about this in a legendary way. Doesn’t help your crushed heart I’m sure, but fwiw, in the future your story will be used as a model how to handle such treason.

I would hold off on getting too many sexual details, positions etc etc. That will haunt you and cause pain.

I fully disagree. As a man, I would need to know. On the outside chance you would ever consider R, you would need to 100% know what you’d be forgiving/accepting/etc. I bet these details would be the final nail in the R coffin, but again, better to know the truth imo. On the other hand, if you are 100% on the D train, with zero chance of any kind of relationship with her down the line, then yes, you can skip this.

I also urge you to heed BFTG’s counsel to go for favorable D terms NOW. Tell her you are demoting her to GF status and that IF she gives you very favorable terms in the D, that you MIGHT consider testing the waters with her as a girlfriend at some point. Do this regardless of whether you’re convinced you never want anything to do with her ever again.

I would also ask her to leave the house and stay with her parents. Tell her she needs to tell them all she’s done or you will do it for her. Separation will help you heal.

You got this! Keep posting.

You would want to add one more item on her list about sending an apology note to his wife.

I feel that some people here, included those who mentioned the cheater or the cheated person should inform the spouse or her parents just for the sake of it are REALLY WRONG.

It is a clearly vindictive choice that is only aimed at humiliating the cheater. Cheating is really a monster but it doesn't have to transform the cheater into a perpetrator, there is no love in that. I was betrayed and I could tell my mum and my in laws what was going on. I didn't because it was something that was affecting us as a couple, it was a private matter. My brother and sister were informed by me because I desperately needed their advice, but I didn't tell them so they could think "What a piece of shit!"

Unfortunately our children understood everything and when they saw me crushed they immediately asked "Is there another woman?" and I was in such a state I just burst out crying so they immediately clicked. They remember some weird, inappropriate comments on Facebook by a "colleague" , they remember dad always using a privacy screen on his computer and were in shock. They just felt that every time they were told off by him for a child lie that was not crushing any family, he was a hypocritical bastard. And they were right. But I didn't want them to hate him.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 3:36 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

It is a clearly vindictive choice that is only aimed at humiliating the cheater.

Could not disagree more. Informing the OBS is, except for Molly here, universally agreed upon at this site, as being extremely important. It is NOT a "vindictive choice". It’s about doing what’s right. Informing OBS is the morally right choice as it gives OBS agency to make informed decisions about her M. Perhaps Molly wouldn’t mind, but MANY betrayed spouses harbor righteous anger/grave frustration that the OBS knew about the lie they were living, and chose not to inform them, increasing their suffering all the more.

OP, simply consider this: had the OBS discovered first, would you have wanted a heads up? Or consider how you’d feel if the OBS discovered months ago, but chose not to tell you, telling herself she didn’t want to be "vindictive", and they were in false R. I’d be quite pissed.

There is a case to be made to delay informing OBS until after the terms of D are set in stone if doing so gets you more favorable terms. Talk to your lawyer about that.

Yes, the adulterers will suffer the natural consequences of their choices. That’s on them, not you. Shielding the actions of your WW makes you complicit in a coverup. Don’t be that guy.

I feel that some people here, included those who mentioned the cheater or the cheated person should inform the spouse or her parents just for the sake of it are REALLY WRONG.

It is a clearly vindictive choice that is only aimed at humiliating the cheater.

Wouldn't you want to know if your spouse was cheating on you, potentially exposing you to a STD, spending family money on AP's, hotels etc? Wouldn't you feel terrible and betrayed if those around you knew and you didn't? Would you want your spouse to spin the story to both sets of parents to make you the bad guy or at least make themselves look better by rationalizing their behavior? Exposure is one of the best tools a BS has for getting out of infidelity. Its more than fair game.

OP is doing a remarkable job in dealing with this. I'm sure he will make the choices that are right for him.

Molly65, Most women would want to know if their husbands are rolling in the hay and coming back home with the dirt.

JustCrushed, please read and re-read Butforthegrace's excellent assessment of the horrific betrayal you are faced with. It can help cut through the dizzying emotional whiplash you are experiencing and the bshyt she is now putting forth. The question postulated is,"Who does this?". Who dumps this level of betrayal, disrespect, and despisal on someone they purport to love???? Who???? Someone who has an integrity gap the size of the Grand Canyon, thats who. Someone whos definition of "love" is 1000 miles from yours (with "love" like that, who needs.....?)

Please take time to back away from all of this and deeply consider how in the world you can reconcile yourself to this level of sludge.

I personally hope you can come to a place of clarity and deep level of inner strength that allows you to detach, disconnect and unentangle yourself from her. She has a Mount Everest level of work to do before she would be a safe partner for anyone.

Remember too that, as another BH said, people dont get character transplants.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 5:22 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

Butforthegrace's post is 100% correct.

Molly, telling the obs is the single best thing a bs can do to protect their marriage. Typically, the ap will be so busy trying to save their marriage, they will drop their ap like a hot potato, and never look back.

Perhaps if your husband's other woman had a spouse to tell, she and your husband wouldn't still be talking,and you wouldn't be trying to find a way to be ok with that.

Op..telling the obs is the right,moral thing to do. Allowing all involved parties to know what's been going on, is never vindictive.

But..let's entertain the idea that it is. If the obs found out first, and told you, would it matter to you if they did it to hurt your ws? Or would you simply be thankful that someone showed you enough respect to tell you the truth?

Exactly.