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Nope.

You being an outlier does not negate what's true.

An exception is exactly that, an exception and nothing more.

It's a disservice to the OP to say otherwise.

[This message edited by Apollos at 2:07 AM, Monday, March 4th]

I want to balance my earlier post about the text messages you were betrayed in. They are truly terrible, nothing will change that, but they are not completely unique at SI. They may well tip your mind to D-- and no one would think less of you for choosing D once your emotions have settled a bit. But it is important to also know that others have tried R despite this pain and I should have been clearer about that.

I do think it is common for WS to text and say outrageous things to their AP... straight out of A fantasy dopamine addiction. However, I do not think it is common for WS to belittle and demean their BS to their AP. It happens, but as far as I have seen here it is in a small minority. Could more be happening that isn't recorded or discovered? Sure, but I think most WS compartmentalize and this would spoil that. Or the WS just won't participate in it unless perhaps it was an exit affair. This does not seem at all like an exit affair judging by your WW's reaction.

I do want you to know there have been other cases of really heinous things having been said and the couple still ended up in R. One member, a pastor, had his WW compare him sexually and even dissed him to the AP about BH as a Dad to their kids, actually saying the AP would be a better father for her kids. Unbelievable! After much pain and discussion, the BH just couldn't understand it. He was a good Dad and she never had a single complaint about his parenting or their sex life-- which if I remember sounded better than mine. He came to the conclusion that she just lost her mind and said all these evil things to keep the APs hooked into what she was seeking. It was not an exit affair and the texts just never made any sense after the fact, just pain. They were in R the last time I saw him post and the R actually seemed to be going well but he was still struggling some too, which is the norm in R.

You have options but obviously it's an awful thing to overcome. We all feel for you.

JC, I am truly sorry to hear what has shaken out the bottom of your confrontation. For what it is worth, and from what you have described, you handled it like an absolute boss. You were equipped, had your bullcrap meter out and blaring, and you countered her rubbish with truth and consequences.

In retrospect, it's amazing how confident they are in the months leading up to discovery, consequences are always a 'future them' problem that apparently we're meant to accept that they have never thought about throughout their affair. And even more galling, we're expected to believe that they have this 'road to Damascus' moment as soon as their partner's find out the truth. 'I never meant for this to happen!' they tell themselves despite making deliberate choices on a near hourly basis for months on end to make sure that that outcome DID happen.

Good on you for calling her out. And colour me surprised to find out about the lack of protection used, another filthy play courtesy of the Cheater's Handbook. It's like a constant variable across all affairs, as if the danger of infecting their unknowing partner makes it all the more exciting. Scumbags.

While the messages are vile (and you are well within your rights to terminate the marriage on the spot on their own), I want you to know, like others have said, that it is all part of the fantasy they invent for themselves and the AP. If you can believe this, when OBS told me about my wife's first affair, the AP apparently told her during discovery that, 'apparently she (my ex) told him that Hurthalo was actually gay and that he only married her to have kids.' Yes. Quite.

To that end, they have even probably denigrated you to close friends and painted you as someone you are not in order to further justify or validate the vile abuse they have inflicted on you. Another example, while I was basically single Dadding my young daughters while my ex-wife was constantly away on military courses (where she was cheating with AP), paying all the bills, doing all the housework, working full time earning triple her income, keeping fit and lifting weights....she lamented to one of her close friends, 'He is currently putting an office chair together in the lounge room!?!', as if me spending literally 15 minutes assembling a chair to replace a broken one was some cardinal marriage sin as compared to her getting filled out without protection regularly by AP like a stack of divorce forms every few days. They lie. And then they lie some more.

And what's worse, they don't just lie to you, their children, or their family. They lie the hardest to themselves.

I just want you to know that if those messages are a dealbreaker against the rest of this debacle, that is more than OK.
But just know that she likely didn't mean a word of it, and it was all just part of the fantasy. Separating your wife's hedonsitic evilness, whatever happens, I don't want you to take any of it personally going forwards.

You're in my thoughts mate.

Hey OP! You handled things extremely well. And no, yur comments were not harsh.

One book that was extremely helpful for me was Cheating in a Nutshell. It gave words to my thoughts and feelings. Intakes an evolutionary psychology approach to the topic of infidelity trauma.

I read it after I filed for D, but it helped me understand all the crazy stuff going on inside my head. It almost gave me permission to feel things.

Actually JC you are handling this way better than most and while you may not see it, we see a strength in you that will help you get through this.
It seems your WW found herself one of those despicable OM who get off on humiliating the BS. There are others here who had similar experiences. I always feel that waywards are also culpable in assisting these OMs/OWs. She might regret getting caught now and her image shattered but she has built a bond with this other guy. As someone said she could have lied to him about sex with you but I think she didn’t in order to heighten her next encounter. Now that your in-law’s anniversary is over it’s best to inform them of her transgressions. If you do consider reconciling then you need her to be in IC for some time and also a polygraph to expose any other lies.

From other messages with her friends, she met this guy on a GNO and slipped right into to the A that night

This was telling too. It’s possible that her circle of friends are all cheating. And if it happened so easily then either this is not the first time or she had been planning to do so for a while. Same for the OM, he probably has other married women who he is doing on a regular basis. There was a member here - Ahguy - his wife started with these GNO. Her AP also took pleasure in humiliating the BH and it turned out he had other women he was cheating with. Her fantasy will break when she finds out she was not exclusive.

You probably don't see it right now, but you've handled these deplorable circumstances with grace and dignity. I'd be willing to wager there are dozens of BHs on this site who wish they had half the foresight you had. It seems clear that your wife has abused you emotionally and used you as a father for her (your) children until she was ready to relive her wild, irresponsible youth. You're still a young man and can have a family of your own. You sound like a smart, kind-hearted, strong man who would make an excellent father and husband to a loyal wife. There's still time.

Weigh that possibility against the choices your abusive wife made. Don't feel like you have to make the R or D choice this minute, but don't discount your own needs in the pursuit of regaining what you thought you had.

[This message edited by 1994 at 4:16 PM, Monday, March 4th]

Thought I might chime in. Sorry you are going through what you are now experiencing. It is tough as hell and is going to take a lot of time to get better.

Others have given some great advice about lawyering up, getting tested for venereal diseases, etc. I have nothing to add there.

I will second JustSomeGuy's recommendation to buy and read "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Wayne & Tamara Mitchell. It is a great book to help you understand what you are feeling and where those feelings are coming from.

For example, Anger. A lot of folks will tell you to stuff those feelings of anger. I agree if they are talking about uncontrollable anger. But Anger itself arises from a feeling of Injustice. What if everyone stuffed their anger feelings and did nothing about it. We would have never had the Freedom Marches of the 60s and the Civil Rights Act. Righteous Anger over Injustices is okay because it propels you to act to correct the injustice.

Chapter 7 in the book on Risk is one of the best I have read on how to size up the situation, especially if you are considering reconciliation. The Linda Problem is an excellent synopsis on how people put too much emphasis on unnecessary details and muddy the waters. I spent all of my working adulthood in Risk Management so this chapter resonated with me. Granted you have risk in anything you decide to do in life, but a person needs to try to take an objective look at the situation and weigh the pros and cons before undertaking a path.

There are those who lean strongly to the reconciliation side that do not like the book because it does not promote reconciliation. That is alright because everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, do not let that dissuade you from reading a really good book to try to gain an understanding of what is going on inside you and around you.

One thing that really stood out to me is that email exchange she had on your anniversary. Since she is an accomplished liar she could have just lied to lover boy and said she did not fuck you. Instead she said she felt forced to fuck you and then embellished it by saying she was thinking of him the entire time. Yuk!!!

Good luck to you.

I second CHEATING IN A NUTSHELL.

Based on the anniversary text, OP you should ask your WW if she had sex with her AP in your house and if she had sex with you immediately after having sex with AP .

Just my 10cents worth.

I feel for you having been forced into a childless(your own) marriage, helping to raise 2 beautiful children(that are not yours), and your wife showing her gratitude by doing this to you.

I really struggle on how you will be able to move on considering the above.

As a silver lining, you got to spend 15 years in a loving family situation that you had not experienced before. Be grateful for this experience.

If you decide to D, you have experienced a lot in family dynamics.

Your only 38. Still young enough to start your own family if you decide to.The world is still your oyster.

The twins will still need your care and support. Still keep them close to you. You are their only appropriate male role model that they have had.

God bless.

JC, I wanted to offer my sympathies for all the chaos in your heart and head right now. I am the BS who bungled discovery and recovery in the worst way, no thanks to my cake eating, lying WS, so I almost cheered for you a few times here. You have handled things about as well as this club's members could have wished for, and I'm so glad you found this site before you confronted and knew what to expect. I was a deer in the headlights for the first year before I found SI and it took a couple of years until I realized just who and what I was married to. It was a hard reality pivot.

My childhood was not as unfortunate as yours, but my love life was a never ending story of having my heart broken and being used and discarded and of course being cheated on. I thought before I met my H that my Dad was the only man in the world who had shown me what love was supposed to be like in an honest and committed relationship. I bought hard into the mythology of my WH being The One, the Only One I could trust, who had my back 100% and loved me just the way I was, as much as I did him. I fell so hard from the life he pretended was perfect. I got cheated on for a very long time, and my recovery rollercoaster went through many unexpected twists and turns. I wanted to offer two bits of advice. One, is to accept that your emotions are going to do what they are going to do, and it is really OK to feel all those feelings, whatever they may be. Please go easy on yourself if you find it harder to be the version of yourself you mean to be, want or need to be. I failed myself a lot in the early phases of the betrayal, and I had a lot of work to do to forgive myself for not being as smart as I should have been - not just in figuring out what was going on, but in figuring out how to proceed and how to take back my life, and especially for taking so long to do it. So go easy on yourself, be prepared for all that your broken heart needs to heal. It's early for you yet but I always recommend Living and Loving after Betrayal by Dr. Stosny as a touchstone to yourself and your path forward.

Second, the mythology of The One, the shattered notion of a relationship that defied all odds, a love that was true and pure and sustaining..... When that shattered for me, I fell into the hole created by that lifetime of hurt and betrayal, all the way back to some very old feelings from my earliest ages of not being worthy or lovable. I hope none of that crap finds you, or camps in a corner of your mind, because it became debilitating for me years downstream. I could not find my way out until I found a therapist who was able to quickly understand who I am, how brutal this betrayal was, and used EMDR to break the bonds of all those old thought patterns that were dragging me under in the wake of this stupid mess I did not make.

I'm not sure what your future may hold, any more than I am sure any more about my own. I am still with my WH, and he's not done a fraction of the confession or crying that your WW did, and none of "the work" I needed him to do. I would have never guessed how emotionally limited he actually was any more than I could have guessed I could stay with someone who betrayed me, and yet, here I am. It has taken a lot of soul searching and a lot of reframing to accept the place I find myself now. It also took a lot of math, lists, pros/cons, to come to a stay/go decision, and at our ages, together seems to be a better end to this story than apart. That is, so long as I never catch a whiff of untruth, unexpressed resentments, unempathetic or sneaky behavior. I managed to find my standards and live by them again, and will not hesitate to walk away now. In the early years, it was my love for him and history that kept me trying, but I will admit the love is a hybrid version I had to come up with to stop some of the hurt. I guess you could say I love much less freely than before, and I'm not as invested in any aspect of my marriage as before.

I hope whatever you decide, it is what your heart and mind can agree upon. My first IC encouraged me to take all the time I needed to decide what to do, saying you can always leave. Just know that is the right choice before you do it. From your posts, it is obvious that you are an amazing, thoughtful, caring, intelligent person. As others mentioned, you are also quite young and should you choose to move on, could still have that family you thought you could not have. I'm almost thirty years ahead of you and I want to beg you to not let this define you or break you in any way, and urge you to have your best life, whatever you decide that needs to be.

Keep coming back for support, for help and if you don't have an IC, I hope you find yourself a good one. It took a good IC for me to finally accept that NONE of this, NONE of his stupid choices or terrible behavior were my fault, or even about me. Once I began to see him as the damaged and stunted person he obviously is beneath the veneer, I realized how much of what I believed about him was what I wanted and needed to see, not actually who or what he was. The ripples of realizations that have come to me on this journey have been a lot to process. If it weren't for this forum and all these lovely kind broken hearted and healed people who came before me, I'm not sure I would have gotten through intact. Keep leaning on all the support you can get, and don't be afraid to reach out in real life or online when it piles up, because it will. I can't even remember how many times I wrote in my journals that I was turning the corner on my recovery and things were better, I was better, only to fall into another pile of emotions and confusion that drug me down again. This is the ultimate existential crisis, so please take care of yourself and reach out for support if you need to. Best to you, whatever path you find yourself walking.

Just checking in. Again, thanks for all the advice and support. I was all over the place yesterday. Like I said in my post, I felt a little better in the morning. I think I was actually just numb. Anyway, I sat my WW down yesterday morning and said pretty matter-of-factly that she had broken, no shattered my heart and I wasn’t sure if I could ever heal. I told her in no uncertain terms that I was leaning heavily toward D. In the meantime, there were several things she needed to do, and, if I decided to stay there would be several more. The first were:

1.Send AP a message that she was ending the A and did not want to hear from him or see him again. She was then to block him and delete his number – all while I was watching. And, if he attempted in any way to contact her, she was to tell me immediately.
2.She needed to get a full panel STD test and I wanted to see both a hard copy and electronic copy of the results.
3.She was to find an IC that specialized in infidelity. We would go together to her first appointment where she would spell out in detail what she had done. I would plan to make it clear to the IC that if there were any hints of unmet needs or the like, the marriage was over.
4.She was to write a detailed time line. I wanted a blow by bow on exactly what lead up to their first-time having sex. I wanted to know what she told herself along the way, and, what she was feeling before during and after. I wanted a detailed description of their sexual encounters – positions, acts, everything. Then again, what she was feeling before during and after.

Then, if I decided that I wanted to stay and try and R I wanted:

1.She would need to take a polygraph, or maybe two. The first would be about the tine line and the second would be about our marriage in general.
2.She would need to tell her parents exactly what she did and why she did it.
3.She would need to tell the girls what she did and why she did it.
4.She had two life-long friends that knew about the affair and encouraged her. They both have been to our house during the affair and interacted with me as if nothing was wrong. They were to be totally cut out of her life and ours.

She started to say she agreed and I stopped her and said I wanted her to think about this. Every single one of these was non-negotiable. PERIOD. Additionally, just because I was asking her to do these things, I was still very much leaning towards D and that she could do it all perfectly and I could still just not be able stay. I said I wanted her answer by the end of the day.

Well, I didn’t stay numb for very long. Late in the day, I was going through my desk and saw "the box". I have saved every card she has ever given me. It started with the birthday card she gave me when we first started dating. It was the first card I had ever been given for anything. It was and is the most important thing I’ve ever had. If there was a fire, that box would have been the very first thing I would have tried to save.

I was just overcome with feelings deep sadness. I did something I shouldn’t have. I opened a bottle of wine (I know this just make anything worse) and went out to the fire pit and started to burn the cards one at a time. Every so often, I’d stop and read one. I can’t even describe the pain I was in. I was about half way through when my WW came out and asked what I was doing. When I told her, she burst into tears and said she had meant every single word she had written. Something in me just snapped. I fished out the most recent card and read out loud what she had written about me being the love of her life and that we were soulmates. The I said help me with this. You fucked him a few days before you gave me this card and then fucked him again a few days after. So, I was what….the love of your life and soulmate for the eight or nine days in between. I dumped the rest of the cards in fire and walked off. It was a long painful night.

This morning, she talked to me before work, and said that she would agree to all I had asked for and that she would do anything for the chance at a chance. I’m just back to being numb again. Thanks for listening.

I admire how you are staying through all of this, as strong as you are being.

I'd put that she needs to tell het family--both her parents AND daughters, what she did, BEFORE you would even CONSIDER R. And she needs to cut out and block her toxic friends too. As in, she sends each of them the text while you are there to verify. AND she also needs to tell you their SOs so they can be outed as well. There is no need to wait on any of this.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:36 PM, Monday, March 4th]

First, I do not blame you for the wine. In my day I opened many a bottle - then I decided that wasn't "helping" so I switched to chain smoking. Needless to say I made my share of bad choices.

More importantly, the box - again, I cannot blame you. I did not have your early life experiences but my WH did write me this really lovely letter right after we first met and again right before I moved in with him. As far as the "us" goes - those letters were the most important things I had from him (or at least most cherished) far and away. I also disposed of them, not via burning but by cutting them up into pieces and flushing them down the toilet. I wish I hadn't now - now that the pain is just a very tiny sliver compared to where you are now. I say this only because you can't change what's done but if there are photos or other artifacts of your time together I suggest boxing it all up and putting it away somewhere. If you are anything like me this will not be the last time, sober or otherwise, that you feel like torching stuff of hers/yours. Once you get to a better place look though those things and decide if you want them.

My only other comment on your list is your wanting to attend the first IC appointment and sort of "dictate" where the conversation goes. IDK if this will help (or if there are many therapists who would consider such a request - mine certainly would not), so you may want to think about how you want that to go a bit more. Honestly if your WW WANTS to blame the marriage and/or you but is unable to, IDK how that will produce an honest therapy session or make progress if she is not allowed to discuss those feelings. For my WH, his saying those things out loud and then having to address what they really meant - what he was covering up with them, was part of that process. It was necessary for him to move forward. You may find it gets uglier before it gets better in the "why" department - unfortunately R is not just for the WS but for the BS too - expect to have to eat a bit more painful shit before you start to get to the other side. It's not for the faint of heart for certain.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:43 PM, Monday, March 4th]

You had a painful childhood, but she seems to be more damaged than you are. You have learned to love and trust and be a grown-up. I don’t know what impeded her ability to mature, but something certainly did. It is not my place to tell you to divorce or reconcile, but I do want you to be aware that she’s not going to get fixed overnight. I think you need to give yourself a time limit where if you feel that she has done the things she needs to do to be a wife you can look at R. If she has ignored your requests/demands then D might be your focus.

JC

I dumped the rest of the cards in fire and walked off

This got me man. My fWW got me a snow globe from the place where we first vacationed (when dating) as her first post-wedding gift. After my fWW confessed, I took a hammer to that thing and smashed it to bits. I feel your pain.

You are executing tremendously well. Of course you are still in deep pain but at least you know you are getting out of infidelity,one way or the other. Fwiw, your WW seems to be on her way to real remorse and realizing the deep, deep hole her fantasy /dopamine ride has dug her. And to be honest, she is realizing that quicker than the majority of WS do. Doesn't mean you should try to R but if you do decide to try, it will mean a lot to potentially succeeding.

Just so you don’t assume you’ll regret torching that stuff…

Threw my diamond ring off a cliff shortly after. Not. One. Single. Regret.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 11:34 PM, Monday, March 4th]

Hey JustCrushed,

You're doing ok, exceptional in fact, considering where you are in the process.. Great planning on your part for what you want your wife to do however slim a chance there is for her.

Earlier I encouraged you to implement a hard 180... I think that now, or maybe in a couple of more days (if you feel you still need to release some more anger and rage directed at your wife-- keep a VAR handy and do NOT let it go physical, wear yourself out at the gym daily) you may want to considering creating some physical space between you and your wife. I think she spent just one night apart from you since Friday? Maybe no nights? She's going to be your immediate trigger for the near future (or longer.) Is there a way for her to go stay at her parents or a safe girlfriend's house for several days, a week would be better? She can start working on herself while you need to detach both emotionally and physically from her to think clearly. I would want to confirm to NC messages with her AP and enabling friends first, then get away from her.... You and your wife are not going to be able to solve and heal this mess in a few days (insert standard 2-5 years of reconciliation language here) For you and your well-being, can you get away from her for awhile?

Stay strong, keep taking action so you don't find yourself wallowing in the situation.