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Last night I told my daughters that STBXWW and I tried to work things out, but your mother keeps contacting her boyfriend. I told them that I can’t take it anymore and that the new house closing is next week and I will be moving out ASAP…this is no longer my home…I told them we would tour the new house later this week so they could think about how they want their bedrooms…and that a mover will be there the first week of June to move a bunch of furniture out.

Make this a new adventure for them. Turn it into a positive. Let them decorate like they want. Focus on your new home with the kids. You can’t think of two things at once.

It’s Imperative that you cut contact. If not YOU will put yourself back in this. No one else has control over you unless you allow it.

“I’m sorry to hear this for several reasons. I was having my conversation with (AP) when you were saying these things to (our daughters). It is not appropriate for you to share many of the things you have shared with them. You know this. And you told your attorney that you wanted to do conciliation and then you do this.”

Translation:

She is sorry she to have lost control over you. She was talking with her AP - if true they were discussing their next rendezvous, making light of your suffering, etc. They would not have been talking about parting ways. It was not appropriate for you to tell your daughters the truth. It is not fair that you agreed to reconcile and now have changed your mind just like she would do.

1. 5 minutes or forever there is no difference where your wayward wife is concerned. Her way or no way.

2. It is never appropriate to tell anyone the truth especially exposing a narcissist regardless of how tactfully you do so.

3. Do as I say not as I do. She is allowed to do as she pleases you are not.

The unmitigated gall.

Not really. Whomever cares least about the relationship has the power. That remains your wayward wife. She only has the power over you that you give to her. You like your children and anyone else that passes through her life are her possessions.

If you have not figured this out yet, anything and everything your wife says and does to hurt you is done with purpose. The less you care the more she will. The more you care the less she does.

Your first big victory will be moving out. While you are away from her you will have time and space to rediscover yourself and to see her as she really is.

If you think you have seen your wife at her worst you are in for a rude surprise. You are only just taking the first steps to free yourself. She will begin to act out when she realizes that your departure is real and she has lost complete control.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 8:21 AM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

Hey Daniel

As you know via our chats I’m in kinda the same situation, on the home stretch to moving out myself and witnessing many of the things that you are seeing, albeit I’ll concede that I am getting the diet version compared to the full fat abuse your WW is dishing out.

Like you I did the pick me dance, I walked on eggshells, I took each small positive observation as a reason to keep trying until the next one. I lived in this hell for close to a year before I started to come out of my fog.

Eventually you have to decide what you need and want from her, and I will assume that NC is one of those things you need. Can you do this for another year, 3 years, 10 years, 40 years?

If there is anyone here who has given their WW every single chance and opportunity to take positive steps it’s me...like you I was soft, placid, kind, loving, patient and it didn’t work.

and I am saying to you

You have nothing to work with here

Focus on you (eat, sleep, exercise, repeat)

Focus on the kids

Focus on work

Take care of yourself buddy. I’m still up for that virtual house warming party in a month or so 🍻 🍷

TD

I agree with others that she's stalling for a reason. Maybe the branch to AP's is a little uncertain still. You're not due an big inheritance in the near future are you? Please tell me she's not still your beneficiary of your life insurance.

Grubs

No inheritance that I know of.

Please tell me she's not still your beneficiary of your life insurance.

Good God!

Unfortunately I believe that is usually a stipulation in the terms of the divorce agreement where kids are involved. I must be her bene and she must be my bene.

I have already asked for a reduced payout.

ETA - must be named as bene until the kids are 18. Divorce agreement will say bene can change after they reach 18. Each has a right to audit this during the next 3 years (until both kids are over 18).

[This message edited by DanielJK at 9:20 AM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

That friend I shared about… He would do the same. His words would go one way and his actions the other. Just like your wife.

I used her looking for MC as an example. You countered that she eventually did book a session. Eventually…

The same applies to NC. When a WS goes to meet the OP to end the affair – often under the guise of closure – there is no real intent of ending the affair. If your wife had realized the seriousness of the situation she would – AT MOST – have ended the affair over the phone. Even better just ended it. There is no closure, no explaining why. It’s just over.

Like my friend who would tell me his drinking days were over, yet not want to get rid of that bottle in his drawer. Not that he intended to drink it…

___

I take it all the ground-work has been done. All the calculations, the decisions and all that. All that’s left is the signing on the dotted line.

Is there a way to fix that in? Dial the present deal in?

That way the only thing a stay might do is postpone what you know will happen.

___

Regarding life insurance: I have strong opinions on life insurance. I know too many people that are insured to the hilt and then some, spending money that could otherwise be placed to better use. It’s not your job nor role to leave your kids with some humongous fund if you croak. It’s your responsibility to ensure your kids can maintain their present (post-divorce) lifestyle, go to college and get an education. All the time keeping in mind that your wife is responsible for her share so it’s not as if you pay all the tuition but maybe 50-60%. Adjust your life insurance amount to reflect that.

If you then want to you can have another policy with the benefactor a fund for your kids until they reach the age of 18 and after that the kids.

Ask your attorney about this.

1.If I had just waited another 5 minutes she would have given me everything I have been begging for over the past year.

This is where I think you are getting tripped up, and that she does not have the right attitude towards an honest R. She should be the one begging for R, she should be giving you everything you want with no conditions or stipulations. If giving you R is doing you a favor, she is not "getting it". She keeps turning things around trying to make you the "bad guy". Until she accepts that role, and takes an attitude to reconcile HER actions, R will be impossible at best, a huge mistake at worst. I think you are doing the right thing by staying the course.

Last night I told my daughters that STBXWW and I tried to work things out, but your mother keeps contacting her boyfriend. I told them that I can’t take it anymore and that the new house closing is next week and I will be moving out ASAP…this is no longer my home…I told them we would tour the new house later this week so they could think about how they want their bedrooms…and that a mover will be there the first week of June to move a bunch of furniture out.

STBXWW was at the gym. I sent her a text that said …I let (our daughters) know that we tried to work things out but you refuse to stop contacting AP. I let them know that I will be moving out next week. They know that a moving truck will be here the following week to remove a bunch of furniture.

I wouldn't put that shit in writing. True though it may be, I simply wouldn't contact her in writing for anything other than logistics.

If she gets combative, this could be ammunition for parental alienation crap in court. So stop telling her anything about what you say to anyone in writing.

Her response:

“I’m sorry to hear this for several reasons. I was having my conversation with (AP) when you were saying these things to (our daughters). It is not appropriate for you to share many of the things you have shared with them. You know this. And you told your attorney that you wanted to do conciliation and then you do this.”

Look out. Follow my advice, please.

1.If I had just waited another 5 minutes she would have given me everything I have been begging for over the past year.

Bullshit. Feel free to say this whenever she talks about anything that isn't logistics. Once I broke my "bullshit" seal, it came up more. Haven't had to use it for months now. Happy to say. But when the bullshit is flowing, don't respond to it. Just say, "Bullshit".

2.It’s not appropriate to disparage their mother in front of them, I know that. Telling them the truth of what happened to their family is not disparaging their mother. Saying “your mother is a fucking whore and I’m divorcing her because she is such a slut” while justified would be disparaging their mother in front of them. Saying “I cannot remain married to your mother while she has a boyfriend” is not disparaging, it’s the blunt, honest truth of the matter.

I'm going to repeat: Look out. Follow my advice, please. Logistics only from now on.

3.I agreed to conciliation, yes…then she continued to contact AP.

"I changed my mind." You are allowed to do that. :)

The unmitigated gall.

ETA - please keep posting, I'm in the home stretch and you have no idea how much your comments give me hope and calm my nerves. All the best to every one of you.

Just a final repeat.

Logistics ✅

Bullshit ❌

Glad to hear you will be moving out soon.

Congratulations for standing up for yourself.

I think (and hope) that you will find it will be much easier for you when you are out of the house. The physical distance should help a lot. Also it will make it a lot easier to ignore your STBXWW and any messages.

Keep focusing on yourself and your future, not on the past. You are headed to life free of that abuse and stress. It can be a big weight lifted.

The worst thing you can do with your kids is lie to them. They need to know that they can always trust you to tell the truth. You're WW is WRONG. You didn't say anything that wasn't age appropriate and factual. And while I agree that it's not good to alienate, lies contaminate YOUR relationship with the children. Mine are young adults and I was 100% truthful with them. I also reminded them that I'm an adult and I can handle my business, so I don't need them taking sides. I think it's important that we allow room for kids to still love both their parents without feeling disloyal. That doesn't mean we need to lie to them though.

Wow, what a coincidence you texted your WW *just* as she was "5 minutes" away from giving you what you want. After she put it off all this time too! As if.

You need to stay strong and not cave this time. Every time you cave, YOU are the one betraying both yourself AND your daughters. They need one of you to be the strong parent.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:04 PM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

I don’t necessarily enjoy being hurt by her…I just remember the good times we had. Until now the good always outweighed the bad…now it’s just bad.

Good that you have taken off your rose-tinted goggles, and hope that you can keep them off.

1.If I had just waited another 5 minutes she would have given me everything I have been begging for over the past year.

Easily recognizable as a bold faced lie. A common weapon the in the cheater's arsenal.

DJK, it would be good to keep focused on yourself first and foremost. Get yourself into a good state of mind, so that you can make decisions that will not waver, as you are sure about them.

Once you get to that steady state, your decisions will work out well for you and your children.

It was wrong to immediately text her the explanation you made to your daughters. You still want to interact with her. I would feel hopeless for you if I didn't know that you will move out the house and that this divorce will happen somehow (with her incredible contribution).

I don't even want to comment on what she did or said. Of course a lie. But even if I knew that it was true, that she wouldn't really have any contact with AP from now on and would never cheate on you again, I wouldn't suggest that you share your life with such a personality. This is no longer just a matter of cheating. This is a one-year abuse process at least. Actually, I don't think it started with the discovery of her A.

Isn't it interesting, I'm telling you about the personality of someone I don't know at all, how hard it is to live together etc. Our views are nothing but the information you have passed on to us. So we are your logical, objective side.

You may misleading us? This doesn't change anything. This is how you see things and we tell you how to think and act logically according to these.

But even if I knew that it was true, that she wouldn't really have any contact with AP from now on and would never cheate on you again, I wouldn't suggest that you share your life with such a personality. This is no longer just a matter of cheating.

Agree with this. This is the crux of the matter. Even if you could get over the cheating ( and I believe you could) would you ever be able to get over the post A gaslighting, TT, blameshifting, minimising, catastrophizing, and outright mental abuse.

There will come a point in time, which I don’t think you are too far away from when you will rediscover your pre A strength and you will say to yourself WTF who the F am I !!!!

I know because I hit that stage about 3 months ago

You think you want her and her to stop cheating will be enough for you, but what you really want is for the last year to have not happened. You cannot have that and in the not too distant future you will realise that and it won’t be enough just for her to stop cheating.

Wishing you strength brother 👊🏻

TD

All that’s left is the signing on the dotted line.

Pretty much, not sure why it takes the attorneys so long to reduce the deal to writing. Honestly, I could write it myself…I’ve seen lots of divorce decrees, it’s not rocket science for a simple situation like mine (not a lot of assets, not much property, no shared business, not self employed, similar incomes, similar retirement plan amounts, 2 cars, I don’t want a lot out of the house (I’ve already purchased stuff from craigslist and facebook marketplace), I’m not really worried about getting my fair share I have no interest in sticking it to her, I just want out)

Crap – I forgot to ask my attorney about the life insurance.

She should be the one begging for R

She actually said to me at one time “don’t expect me to come crawling to you for forgiveness” or something like that. She just does not see the path of destruction she left behind.

The physical distance should help a lot.

I just got word from the mortgage company that I am “clear to close.” Every time I get a step closer to getting out, the sense of relief gets better. The weight is lifting. Final walk thru is scheduled and closing is scheduled for next week.

This0is0fine - I hear you, I have to be careful of written communication. Duly noted.

This is no longer just a matter of cheating. This is a one-year abuse process at least. Actually, I don't think it started with the discovery of her A.

I know. Assume she stopped cheating, can I live with the person that did what she did for a year? A year of lying and deception the depth and breadth of which is astounding. How can someone lie so much and for so long and still look at themselves as the victim? At what point does one get tired of lying and deceiving? It must be exhausting.

I wonder a lot about when the abuse started…it’s so hard to say. She used to do a lot for me, she used to do lots of things to show love and affection…then it stopped, I can’t pinpoint when that change occurred. I can’t remember anymore when we had good times. I can’t remember what it was like to be in an open, honest marriage.

So we are your logical, objective side.

It’s like buying a car…you really should have someone negotiate for you to take the emotion out of it.

I’ve often thought that I wish I had some of you guys standing next to me on dday and during some of the discussions shortly after that day.

You think you want her and her to stop cheating will be enough for you, but what you really want is for the last year to have not happened. You cannot have that and in the not too distant future you will realise that and it won’t be enough just for her to stop cheating.

One of the things they talk about in “cheating in a nutshell” is that by moving on with a cheater, you are asking your body to go against its own defense mechanisms. I believe jealousy is instinctual, millions of years of instinct…a cousin of fight or flight or just part of the fight or flight response, it’s there for a reason, to protect yourself. That’s not easy to overcome if at all.

Would I ever be able to be comfortable around her again? I don’t know.

I’ve heard it said on here and elsewhere, something like “he who cares least wins.”

That is such a sick game humans play on each other. I don’t get it and I don’t like it.

She actually said to me at one time “don’t expect me to come crawling to you for forgiveness” or something like that. She just does not see the path of destruction she left behind.

Roughly 3 days after dday in our one and only MC session (I know I know too soon) WGF said to MC that I was controlling and jealous and now that she’s had an A I will only get worse and she won’t be able to live like that.

She is also one who will never beg to be forgiven because she hasn’t fully grasped the enormity of what she has done and doesn’t consider herself a cheater like proper cheaters.

In talking with a family member a few weeks ago, the family member said to WGF. I knew you was working through something and I knew it wasn’t anything Twodozen had done so I assumed you had had a ONS on a girls holiday.

She recoiled, looked at the family member and said “I am not like that, I would never do that”

In her head an emotional affair followed by a 3 month physical affair is not as bad as a ONS

Mind blown 🤯

I have no interest in sticking it to her, I just want out)

That doesn't mean she has no interest in sticking it to you. Keep an eye out just in case.

I just have to ask-- where I am from if I purchased a home before my divorce was final, my ex would own half of it as marital property. I assume you cleared this with your lawyer, and maybe you already covered this earlier but I just wanted to mention it in the off-chance it was missed.

I am glad you are getting through this so well. Hang in there with your head reminding your feelings of the facts.

For the record Daniel. The common denominator in our stories is not our wayward s behaviour

The common denominator is our inability to stand up for ourselves. To refuse to be treated the way we have been treated. To be placid, loving, kind, patient, naive

I realised this a while ago but still couldn’t be an arsehole to WGF so I took the only route to get myself out of infidelity that I was capable of doing and that was to separate.

That was the only thing I knew I could do without becoming someone I don’t want to be. I think you are the same

You tried scorched earth and you couldn’t follow through with it (as I know that I wouldn’t) but you can do this,

Stay strong brother 👊🏻

TD.

TD

The mental gymnastics is fascinating to witness. Troubling, disgusting, incomprehensible...but fascinating nonetheless.

And I agree completely on your second point. You are spot on. It's amazing the response when I finally stand up for myself..."oh, you're so angry..."

Anna - you're scaring me, but yes always cleared things through my attorney. Both attorneys are aware and she is refinancing the marital home to her name only and I am purchasing in my name only. I suppose it's just a handshake agreement between attorneys. Although we do have signed and notarized statements that spell this out because the mortgage companies wanted to see that we each won't be responsible for the others property.

My ex had to sign a quit claim on the house. She was never on the mortgage. I had stupidly added her to the deed at her request when I refinanced to a 15 yr note a year after M. She feared I would screw her over... I suppose that if she hadn't been on the deed, the separation agreement would have sufficed.