SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello. I hate that I have to even be here. My world was shattered into a million pieces 7 weeks ago. I need some advice but I feel that my story is unique, although I am sure for veterans here its not really.

A few important notes for you to know. I am a betrayed male. I work from home. WW is a stay at home mom. We are both Christians but I have strong family background with it and she really did not until I met her and really helped her into faith before we started dating. I believe that divorce should only be a last resort and that only a betrayed has any grounds for it from an infidelity standpoint based on my understanding of the Bible. I don't want a divorce, I believe that God can heal and restore us, but that takes both of us, it cant just be me that wants it.

On DDay I found DMs that she was having an online only affair. All evidence so far shows that the AP is over 13 hours away at a minimum in a different time zone. From my access to DM’s I was not able to see any evidence that they have ever met in person.

After DDay I was able to access more DM’s without my WW knowing. I was able to see the affair was still continuing and even ramped up to full blown sexting.

I was playing the "pick me" dance this whole time and was monitoring the daily DM’s to see the affair play out daily. Reading the DM’s about how my WW was telling the AP that she was never going to happy with me ever again was destroying me inside.

I could not play the "pick me" dance anymore after finding some Christian and secular resources on "tough love" and the idea of the "180".

I went hardcore to draw boundaries after 4 weeks of doing the "pick me" dance and handed her a paper of what I was expecting. My WW broke down a bit and agreed to go to IC.

The shortened list of what I wrote is:
1. call the AP with me listening and end it for good.
2. delete all accounts that you have ever used to contact him with.
3. give me passwords to all devices and accounts so I can monitor them.
4. attend individual therapy.
5. attend couples therapy.
6. be patient with me as I navigate the emotions of betrayal.

I thought that this was the beginning of remorse. She started seeing a therapist on February 1st. She has been going weekly and has had 4 sessions so far.

Now that the long back story is out of the way this is why I am posting my story on the forum. My WW thinks she has attachment issues from childhood and codependency issues. Her therapist said she may have "love addiction". I only know about the "love addiction" diagnosis from texts with her mom. I had asked for access to her phone and my WW showed me her pin so she knows I can access it but I do still do it in secret so she does not know when or what I am looking at.

When looking at chats and texts a few main things stand out to me:
1. She admits to friends that the affair was a sin and she should not have done it, but jokes that she may not have any true regrets about it.
2. She blames me for almost everything and says she will never "settle" for me again and that I need to work hard to be the husband she needs and deserves.
3. She badmouths almost everything I do or say to try and heal and reconcile to her friends and family.
4. tells one of her friends that all she needs is good sex and that since I was a virgin on our wedding day that I was never able to really please her or learn how to please her and that she has never been satisfied.

From talking with each other there is no remorse, no apologizing from her at all. I am wondering if she is still in the withdrawal stage since its been 3 weeks of NC. The fantasy she has built up about how I am the cause of all her issues and the reason she had to seek out emotional support from someone else seems to still be in tact and fueled by friends who do not know about the infidelity, but are only told her side of the story about how much of a piece of crap husband I am. She has rewritten our entire history together and says things to her friends in texts like "maybe I was never in love and maybe he never loved me". She has built up the lies and has certain friends supporting them and she seems to believe her own lies.

So far in regards to my new boundaries the only ones she has really committed to is going to therapy and gave me just her phone pin. She claims she has gone NC and from my ability to monitor that seems true but she has not done the "final call" with me listening for my closure yet. She has said that I can start to find a MC now that she has had some good sessions in IC.

I am looking for advice. I realize it has only been 7 weeks. From what I read the first 6 months can be full of confusion and it can take time for the "affair fog" to lift and for the withdrawal from the AP to end. I want to reconcile. I have told her that but I still maintain distance and boundaries. She says things like "you need to be patient". I am really struggling since I just want her to take accountability, show remorse, and be willing to reconcile. Then after she does that I am so ready to work on our relationship as hard as I possibly can, but I feel like I am in a hamster wheel running 100 miles an hour and not moving in any direction.

Hello Gointhruhell

Welcome to SI I’m sorry you had a need to find us. First have you checked out the healing library on the main page and tactical primer at the top of this forum?

Your W is openly disrespecting you and isn’t a very good candidate for R. You cannot chase or drag her to R. My best advice at this point is to stop the pick me dance, go hard 180, see an attorney and let her chase and drag you to R.

I don’t say that down to you, my WW did very similar things and that is what worked for me. The good news is you are obtaining this knowledge early after Dday, it took me months.

So sorry you find yourself here, but you will receive good support. You have received excellent advice from Tanner. Read in the healing library and the pinned threads for newbies. Let me start by impressing on you that nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused your WW to cheat. You are not a perfect partner, but neither is your WW. It is so common for cheaters to rewrite the marital history to justify their actions. Refuse to accept any blame for her decision to cheat. She has to own her decision to be unfaithful and try to earn back your trust. If she was unhappy in your M, she had legitimate options to address those issues. She could have turned inward to you to work on things together, or if she is totally unhappy she could have asked to separate or file for D. There is never a valid excuse to cheat. Period.

My advice is to turn inward and work on yourself. Always value yourself. From what you have shared your WW does not appear to respect you or your M based on her comments to friends. She is able to joke about her infidelity, the most hurtful thing you can do to your partner. She is not remorseful. You cannot control her or force her to value your M. You need to heal and value yourself. Get stronger for you. Exercise, eat well, get out and engage with your hobbies. Get into IC for yourself. Focus on you. Be the best you can be for yourself. Remember you are the prize and you deserve a W who is devoted and faithful. Implement the 180. Only contact or speak to her over financial or child issues, if you have children. See an attorney to learn your rights in case of D. From what you have shared your WW seems to expect that you will accept any disrespect she dishes out, and you will never leave. That sounds like a recipe for a very unhappy M. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:44 PM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

How long have the two of you been together? Are there children? What are your ages? Prior to the EA, how would you assess your marriage? Did her behavior and attitude toward you do a complete 180 since she started the EA or was she always discontented with you and the marriage on some level? Has she followed through with the six points you outlined? The answers to these questions might give some guidance on how to proceed. I would add that she must cut ties with all friends who encouraged her behavior.

I agree with Tanner that at this point she does not seem to be good R material. Her IC is critical at this juncture. That person will be fed a one-sided narrative of the EA and the marriage. A lousy therapist (there a too many of them) may just reinforce your wife's feelings and decisions. She should be seeing an IC versed in infidelity. You will know shortly whether the counseling she is receiving is worth anything. Beware of MCs. Only go to an MC if there truly were significant issues in the marriage PRIOR to her EA.

Your WW blames you for everything. Her friends act as a reinforcement to her narrative. Wow, not a good starting place to consider R.

Go see a lawyer and assess your options. As many have said, you have to be willing to end your marriage in order to save it. How much time you wish to give her is up to you. Having gone through this crap, I wouldn't give her much time. Make it clear to her that she has to do the heavy lifting. My ex-WW didn't do that.

The absolute requirement for a decent honest reconciliation is some degree of remorse. Unfortunately your WW does not have remorse , let along regret for her actions. You are carrying the entire burden of the R when it should lie on the shoulders of the betraying spouse.

Are you in IC? You will need to develop some degree of self love and self confidence before you proceed forward. I highly recommend therapy, it has made me see where my flaws lie in terms of not setting boundaries. This is crucial for you to avoid settling for a married life where your partner does not respect you and will continue cheating.

I understand your beliefs about divorce but the big question is are you ok being in a marriage devoid of respect, honesty and loyalty.

I hope you realize sooner than later that you deserve better. Meanwhile, take time to grieve but also be smart and put yourself first. Your healing should be the priority.

( I hope you have saved all the chats to the AP and her friends, it is quite possible she might decide to divorce you and take everything you own ). Be hopeful but not foolish.

You have gleaned a lot of good advice very quickly.

Your 180 might need to be a bit harder for a while, and perhaps consider some further measured consequences, like telling the other betrayed spouse if there is one. Even telling spouses of any of her friends who may have been encouraging the affair.

Normally I am an advocate of keeping to one thread, but if you do post in ‘general’, there are a few former Waywards / madhatters on this site who give considerable insight, and in that forum they could respond. Posters like HikingOut, BraveSirRobin and DaddyDom. Perhaps you could read some of their posts and responses. It helped me to know what a Wayward with reconciliation potential looked like, and what struggles they faced internally to get there.

There is a historical his / her post by Walloped and MrsWalloped which I found helpful, but it takes a day to get through it all and is hard emotionally. Also, those two seem pretty remarkable.

Is your wife reading the standard two texts ‘Not Just Friends’ and ‘How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair’?

Is her therapist suitable? By that I mean properly qualified and experienced and not some kind of life coach?

[This message edited by straightup at 8:45 PM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

The fantasy she has built up about how I am the cause of all her issues and the reason she had to seek out emotional support from someone else seems to still be in tact and fueled by friends who do not know about the infidelity, but are only told her side of the story about how much of a piece of crap husband I am. She has rewritten our entire history together and says things to her friends in texts like "maybe I was never in love and maybe he never loved me". She has built up the lies and has certain friends supporting them and she seems to believe her own lies.

I relate to this SO MUCH. Until I found out about WH's affair(s?) I genuinely thought we were pretty happy. Sure, things weren't as exciting as they once were, but we'd been married 15 years. After I start learning about his infidelity, it's all of a sudden he's 'not been happy for a while,' etc. First I heard of it! Also, his behavior never indicated that to me, we still spent all of our time together.

I have learned in a short time WS's will retcon the history of the relationship so as to not look like the villain in their own story. Cheating on a loving, devoted spouse is terrible, but cheating on a spouse who they'd fallen out of love with is a mistake in order of things, not actions.

Please be very wary of Marriage Counseling early on in the process of healing. Usually we advice betrayeds to start to go to Marriage Counseling only after they have undergone extensive Individual Counseling. Make sure that your individual counselor is well versed in Infidelity Trauma, which is what you are going through.

The Marriage Counselor has only one client... that is the Marriage. Not you. Not your wife. Some Marriage Counselors will try to keep the marriage going even when it is evident that the marriage should be dissolved. If you two do not attend counseling they will not be able to get any more money from you. Be very wary. My suggestion is to start MC only after you see what is True Remorse from your cheating wife, and only after you two have both decided to reconcile. That might even be 6 to 12 months after discovery of her affair, or even longer. You have an awful lot of individual healing to go through before you can think of reconciling. The marriage counselor might be able to help with communication, etc. at that point in the reconciliation process.

I am a Christian and I understand very well the Book of Matthew and Christ's teaching on adultery and divorce. However, Christ did say that you have grounds for a divorce if you want to go that route, because she has definitely committed adultery in her heart, (and maybe even more that you don't even know about), according to Christ. I fully understand why you wish to exercise every last option before calling it quits and pulling the plug.

From what you said in your post, I only see your wife as a selfish, entitled person, who only thinks of themselves. I might have overlooked it, but I did not read in your post where she has told you that she is sorry she hurt you deeply. I did read where she makes fun of you and is immensely disrespectful of you to her friends. I don't see where she is anywhere near ready to be reconciliation material.

This site has a great Healing Library at the top of this page. There are some great articles written by those who have traveled your road. Start with the Tactical Primer and then go to other articles as you feel the need. Here is the link:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/tactical-primer/

Sometimes you might read advice here that sounds tough and harsh, but please know we are all pulling for you to come out of infidelity in one piece and healthy. Good luck to you.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 9:36 PM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

True reconciliation is very difficult when both are all in. Your wife is making it clear she is not remorseful and does not want to reconcile. This is not your fault, you did nothing wrong.

Get IC and take care of yourself, see an attorney, protect yourself and your finances. Skip the MC until, if, she wants to reconcile.

It might help to do some reading from the library on this site. Also get "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair". It will give you an idea of what a remorseful spouse should be doing.

[This message edited by trustedg at 9:12 PM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

So sorry you are here.

From my reading here, true remorse can take time. Way too long in all cases, but some took years. I say that to level set expectations here. You aren't likely to see remorse this early out.

Having said that, that does not mean you have to stand there and take it.

If reconciliation is the starting line for your new marriage, you're already standing there. Waiting for her. She knows this. She can either stand still while telling you she is on her way, wander toward you at her leisure ignoring your pain, or start to walk toward it. Remorse, or coming close to it, is about the only time a WS will start the walk.

So what do you do in the absence of the remorse? You start down your own path of healing. You can always return to meet her at the starting line of reconciliation, but to simply wait for her is unfair to you and will not motivate her.

IC for you. Read up and implement the 180 (I like the simplified one best. It's meant to help you stabilize your emotions by detaching from your pain source). Start practicing radical self care to make sure you are fed, healthy and strong. Communicate whatever boundaries you need to feel you aren't actively being cheated on. See an attorney (and let her know) to find out the options and how that might look for you and your family. Divorce is the wages for this sin. No use in pretending it shouldn't be on the table.

Set a deadline for that call.

Is the AP married? If yes, notify the other betrayed spouse (OBS). Affairs live in the dark. Shine a light.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. From the way you describe your wife and her actions she sounds very selfish; she laughs at you and makes fun of you behind your back. Not only has she betrayed you and the marriage by engaging in a full blown online affair, she’s also betraying your privacy by sharing intimate details of your sex life with her friends - and making fun of you in the process. When you think she can’t sink any lower, there she goes. I am a betrayed wife and back when my fWH had his A in 2012 there so many times I wished he would have just divorced me instead of dragging me through all that pain. And we are Christians!! Recovery and reconciliation is NOT easy - it takes months and months if not years and years. He worked his tail off during for 10 years! Granted - I’m here again because he had a slip up (he started texting a person he’s known since childhood and the texts got a little too flirty. I found the texts 1 week after they first started - so he’s back in IC working on his issues. I forgive him. He’s contrite, remorseful, penitent and he’s doing everything he needs to do to show me he’s so very sorry.) There have been many veterans on this site that have given you advice - the one thing I hope you take with you is that you need to take care of yourself. You are WORTH it - even if she doesn’t see it. I sense that you want to stay with her no matter what. But SHE needs to do more than she’s doing to show you she’s remorseful - heck she’s not even doing the bare minimum. Ultimately, you need to prioritize your own emotional wellbeing and make decisions that are in your best interests, even if they are difficult. Being in IC can help you navigate that - I would suggest you stay as FAR AWAY from MC as possible right now. I refused MC for about a year or more w/ my fWH. We had way too much baggage to work through individually before we even attempted MC. Best of luck to you.

Friend

As is often the case this post will meander around a couple of points but hopefully they will lead to some conclusion in the end. Please read through with that in mind.
I see in your post that most of all you want to reconcile the marriage. This post is 100% based on creating the situation where that might be possible. I feel a need to emphasize that, because at first some of the advice might sound contradictory to that goal.

First of all: I absolutely hate it when users think their situation is "unique". Frankly the ONLY thing unique about your situation is that its YOU and YOUR WIFE and YOUR MARRIAGE. Probably everything else – the type of affair, the reactions, the behaviors, the family size… is something that we have seen about a gazillion times before. The combination, the chain-of-events… that might be unique, but maybe it’s more "different" than "unique".
Why do I loath unique? Well… if you think you are unique then you will also tend to think our advice isn’t appropriate. After all – we have seen a thousand people burn their thumb and we have told a thousand people to cool the burn and it has worked for nearly all the thousand people that followed the advice. But if your thumb is unique then maybe you think cooling the burn won’t work and in your uniqueness follow your own advice. Only to extend your pain and still have a blistered thumb…

My first suggestion is forget your uniqueness. Accept that a lot of the advice offered is based on personal experience, but even more is based on seeing dozens or even hundreds of comparable situations and how certain actions seem to work better than others.
For example: There is no real scientific research behind this. Mainly because this is an anonymous site, and nobody is keeping score. But I have an educated guess that in 8 out of 10 instances the initial reaction to confrontation is that the WS (wayward spouse) stops the affair. In 7/10 that "stop" is not permanent and the AP’s reconnect within a couple of weeks. You can drop that 7/10 to a healthier 3/10 if you let the other persons spouse know of the affair. That’s why we strongly suggest exposing and letting the other spouse know. These are odds, not guarantees. Although this might apply in the vast majority then there are exceptions. But given a choice most would agree that 3/10 is better than 7/10 and that is better than 8/10.

Once again: Forget your uniqueness!

Second suggestion:
Realize that there is something worse than ending this marriage.
Imagine this scenario: You walk into a used-car lot and head directly to the old red Mustang and tell the salesperson that you are willing to pay ANYTHING for that vehicle. Think he will cut you a deal?
Now imagine you walk into that lot with some picture in your mind of the real value and what you can afford. Part of that reality is that if he’s asking double the price you are willing to walk away. Think he might be lowering his price once your back is turned?

If saving your marriage is the MAIN CONCERN then think hard what a marriage really is. If it’s just keeping HER as your wife… well… then allow her to have her affairs, allow her to disrespect you to others and so on. She can be discreet about it and you can all pretend nothing is wrong. This isn’t as far-fetched as might sound: There are numerous instances where a spouse knows of the other one having a secret life – a lover or a fetish or addiction – and doesn’t forbid it. Sometimes it’s openly discussed, in other instances they pretend to believe when the spouse phones to let know they need to work late yet another Friday evening.
If that doesn’t sound good… well… realize that losing her beats sharing her. Be prepared to turn your back to the negotiations if they aren’t going your way. Have a price in mind – an emotional and moral price – that you are willing to accept.

Third piece of advice:
There should be one and only one reason you are in this marriage, and only one reason she’s in the marriage. That reason is because you WANT this marriage.

Anything else is an excuse. Anything else is the emotional equivalent of "I want to lose weight, but I HAVE TO eat cake all day".
Like I said in my entry my goal is to help you reconcile, but it would be foolish to not prepare and understand divorce. That is the marital equivalent of being willing to walk from the table. So research divorce. It works! People divorce and they survive. They don’t starve, lose their kids and end up on the street. In fact – I think it’s more common than not that people are on their second marriage rather than the first. I’m not suggesting you D – but don’t fear it. Don’t use that fear of D to keep you or your wife in a marriage if the fear of D is the reason you stay.

Fourth:
What is your wife offering you? To me… well… at least outwards she’s offering disrespect. Can you love someone you don’t respect?
Now – I don’t know how deep her disrespect is founded. Maybe it’s just in her nose, maybe she’s hiding some insecurity or issue with her attitude. After all – admitting to the affair without some lame "justification" is tough. But… you need to get to the bottom of it.

Finally, the fifth issue:
You came down like Moses from the mountain with commandments. Do A then B or else…
She thinks she has no options… She thinks she is being cohered into doing things she (pretends) she doesn’t want. It’s like the difference between being ordered by a judge to clean the streets as community service or cleaning the streets as part of a community-program with your church. Same work, same trash, but one is probably full of resentment and shame, whereas the other is done from love of community.

Your requirements are OK. Nothing wrong with them. But rather than be an order they should be a requirement: IF you want to save this marriage and IF you want me to heal then this is what I need.

This is where things start to come together…

The minute you can tell your wife that you might want to reconcile and loath the thought of divorce BUT that you want a MARRIAGE and if she can’t offer that then divorce beats what she’s offering… THAT is the moment you can possibly save your marriage.

I mentioned odds: I think if you follow this advice you have something close to 7/10 chances of ending up with a good marriage.

Consider giving your wife a monologe like this – and yes, it is a monologue because it’s not a discussion nor argument. It’s a statement:

Wife – I love you and always envisioned us together. However I have realized that losing you isn’t the worst outcome. Even worse is sharing you, or holding you in a marriage you don’t want. The moment you decided to cheat with OM is the moment I lost you, and your comments during and since strongly tell me you don’t want this marriage.

I love you too much to stand in the way of your happiness. If you think that happiness is with OM then go be with him. If you think this marriage is unhappy then don’t stay.
Until and unless you clearly tell me you want THIS marriage and you want it because of ME… I am simply assuming you want out. I absolve you of any obligations as a wife, and I relinquish my role as husband.
There is a formal legal process we need to go through, but don’t worry. It’s fair and should ensure we both get what is legally ours. I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to discuss that process and there isn’t any rush per se, but I will be taking steps to initiate that process in the foreseeable future.

And then you go mow the lawn or make a sandwich or whatever.
She tells you that you can’t divorce because of money or commitments or whatever…
"Yes we can. People divorce all the time and manage. We can find ways to deal with that. Money/house/family (place whatever excuse she uses) is never a good reason to remain in a marriage where one or both partners doesn’t respect the other."

She tells you she had the affair because you were inattentive/bad breath/too much golf…
"I am sorry you feel that way. If we were committed to the marriage we could address that issue in MC, but seeing as how you are dedicated to your infidelity and don’t want to be married to me there isn’t a need to go there".

These are standard answers: Until and unless she tells you that she wants YOU… you simply accept what shes offering… She’s offering you that old red Mustang at 10x market price and you are prepared to walk away from the table.

Thank you all for the advice and support. I will try and responds as I can to questions in order to shed more light on my current scenario.

Welcome to SI I’m sorry you had a need to find us. First have you checked out the healing library on the main page and tactical primer at the top of this forum?

I have read everything in the healing library and also I have read so many articles and watched so many videos on infidelity and healing over the last 7 weeks. I am the type of person that researches something to become an expert on it so I can face it with knowledge and wisdom and feel equipped to make appropriate decisions once I have enough data to do so.

How long have the two of you been together? Are there children? What are your ages? Prior to the EA, how would you assess your marriage? Did her behavior and attitude toward you do a complete 180 since she started the EA or was she always discontented with you and the marriage on some level? Has she followed through with the six points you outlined? The answers to these questions might give some guidance on how to proceed. I would add that she must cut ties with all friends who encouraged her behavior.

We have been married for 6 years. I am 36, she is 35. We have a 3 year old child. Up until the last year I would have said we where happy. We had a miscarriage a year ago, and I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in May. (with extreme life changes I have gotten this do prediabetes now). The last year has been really difficult with all sorts of small little life challenges (and a bad storm that tore all of my shingles off) and we struggled to get pregnant again over the spring/summer after the miscarriage. From DM's the affair started in late September. My WW cut off all intimacy with me in early November. At the time I thought that we where just going through the normal 5-7 years of marriage struggles that are very common from my research.

Is your wife reading the standard two texts ‘Not Just Friends’ and ‘How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair’?

Is her therapist suitable? By that I mean properly qualified and experienced and not some kind of life coach?

Right now she wont really listen to any thing I try to send her. She pretty much only listens to her mom and therapist. She has said things about how I am to controlling and that she needs to "find herself". All classic responses from a cheater from my research.

The therapist she is seeing has the following specializations and focuses: (LPC-MH, CSAT, CMAT) Addiction | Anger | Anxiety | Attachment Issues | Betrayal Trauma | Body Image | Breakups | Christian Counseling | Codependency | Compulsive Sexual Behaviors | Control Issues | Depression | Divorce Adjustment | Eating Issues | Family Problems | Family of Origin Issues | Fear | Forgiveness | Grief | Identity Issues | Impulsivity | Internet Addiction | Internet Pornography Addiction | Love Addiction | Narcissism | Obsessions and Compulsions | Panic and Panic Attacks | Parenting | Perfectionism | Personality Disorders | Post-Traumatic Stress Disorders (PTSD) | Rejection | Religious Issues | Self-Care | Self-Esteem | Sexual Addiction | Shame | Stress

You can drop that 7/10 to a healthier 3/10 if you let the other persons spouse know of the affair. That’s why we strongly suggest exposing and letting the other spouse know.

From my access to DM's before my wife deleted discord from her phone, the AP was already in the final stages of divorce. I have learned from this site and others that people affair down, and let me tell you how true that is. The AP is a piece of work with major issues.

I have been working very hard on myself and I have been taking my health very seriously and started working out and eating better. I am also taking the attitude that IF my WW decides not to come back to the marriage that I have to take care of my child and rebuild my life without her. I found this post from another thread that hit me like a sledgehammer:

Here is how you handle tomorrow

Be cold, distant, and stoic. You are a shining example of the strength of men. Her infidelity is simply an obstacle that must be overcome. You are the leader of your family. She has decided that this piece of shit OM is more important than you and your children. She is willing to sacrifice your health and the prosperity of your children just so she can hear the OM say he loves her. She has chosen to leave your family and now you must make decisions. You will overcome it with or without her. She will question your behavior. Your response? "I'm deciding what the best way forward is for me and my children." They are now YOUR children. She is welcome to rejoin the family but the cost will be high. It must be high. This is important. YOU DECIDE THE COST. You are in complete control. A family has rights, however the members of the family all have obligations they must meet in order to enjoy those rights. She no longer meets those obligations. The family is still intact just minus one member. Will you let her back in? Depends on her actions.

You love her. Forget that for now. Your children's future is at stake. Love has no place here right now. This is about making bold strategic decisions that will place your family in the best possible future. That future may not include your wife, perhaps it does. That is her call not yours. When you wake up tomorrow you need to begin living life as if she is gone. Its ok to let her know this. Do not engage in arguments or discussions. "Simple" is the name of the game tomorrow.

Wife - why are you acting like this?

You - It is clear you want to leave the family. I am making sure we are prepared.

Wife - Stop lets talk

You - If you are still talking to him then I have nothing to talk about.

Wife - I don't know what I want

You - I do. I want a prosperous future for our children. Please join me or get the fuck out of the way.

You know, something like that.

Its gut check time. You ready?

So far I think that my WW has gone NC so I have tried to adapt the above a little bit since she is not actively in communication with the AP, but she is still not "back" into the family yet since she is definitely in a withdrawal and victim mentality right now.

Finally, the fifth issue:
You came down like Moses from the mountain with commandments. Do A then B or else…
She thinks she has no options… She thinks she is being cohered into doing things she (pretends) she doesn’t want. It’s like the difference between being ordered by a judge to clean the streets as community service or cleaning the streets as part of a community-program with your church. Same work, same trash, but one is probably full of resentment and shame, whereas the other is done from love of community.

Your requirements are OK. Nothing wrong with them. But rather than be an order they should be a requirement: IF you want to save this marriage and IF you want me to heal then this is what I need.

I did actually call them "requirements" and used language like "I am not the one who abandoned the marriage, you are going to have to chase ME and decide if YOU want to abandon what we built or decide to come back to it and work very hard to rebuild." I did take a tough love route based on some books I read and they do kind of say you need to draw that line in the sand and then wait for the WS to decide.

I think my greatest challenge right now is that my WW knows the type of person I am. She knows how serious I take my faith and my vows. She has eluded to the fact that I would never initiate a D. I have had to realize that if she has abandoned me emotionally and physically (intimacy) then she has already "ended" the marriage, a D is just finalizing it. With the support of very trusted friends and family they have helped me get to that point. As I said I want to save my marriage, but with my research and also from the amazing support from you all on this thread and site I realize that I have to be willing to give it up to save myself and child. I plan on going that route for now and doing a more "hard" 180. I have realized that I need to do that to protect myself.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond. This is probably one of the most difficult things I have ever had to deal with. From my experience so far talking with a few trusted friends, unless a person has gone through this, they don't understand my pain and feelings. The resources on this site and responses from people who really do understand are very much appreciated.

I am the type of person that researches something to become an expert on it so I can face it with knowledge and wisdom and feel equipped to make appropriate decisions once I have enough data to do so.

I do exactly the same thing. My only word of caution, from hard won experience, is sometimes I do this because I don't want to feel the feelings. My research is a form of avoidance; it's like I think if I just find the right article/podcast/book/etc I will magically feel better. I am intelligent as it seems you are and I rely on that, but sometimes I try to think my way through feeling. This is something we cannot think our way out of, so just make sure you are feeling, too.

I have had to realize that if she has abandoned me emotionally and physically (intimacy) then she has already "ended" the marriage, a D is just finalizing it.

Exactly this. My marriage ended a long time ago it's just that no one informed me of that fact. I'm catching up with what he's known for at least a year and maybe longer. The second he put his focus on her and not me, the second he stuck his dick in her, THAT was when the marriage ended.

Be aware that APs lie a lot about their marriage. Most of the time, when they say they are divorcing or separating from their spouses, they are usually lying. So, if possible, confirm his marriage situation through other sources. If they haven't divorced yet, then regardless of his marriage situation, you should inform OBS.

You are doing great. You are navigating through this mess with clear head and right priorities. Good luck to you, sir.

Juts a note on boundaries. Your boundaries are for you. They are about where your lines are and what you will do if your boundaries are violated. You list:

1. call the AP with me listening and end it for good.

2. delete all accounts that you have ever used to contact him with.

3. give me passwords to all devices and accounts so I can monitor them.

4. attend individual therapy.

5. attend couples therapy.

6. be patient with me as I navigate the emotions of betrayal.

She has partially complied. The ball is now in your court to respond to her partial non-compliance. You referred to 'requirements', some of which are not being met. Again, the ball is in your court to respond.

R is a process of building a new M. That's a joint process; it requires active input from both of you. Since you think your W has checked out of your M, I think your best bet is to hold a conversation as Bigger recommends - 'I want to stay M to you, but only if it's an M between you and me, without any intruders'.

With regard to your requirements, I recommend changing that to something like 'IC with a goal of changing from cheater/betrayer to good partner'. I was in group therapy with a guy who told his W that he wanted R but told us he wanted to split. Because of confidentiality, all we - including the therapists - could do was to basically work with him about coming clean with his W.

*****

D has to be on the table for your boundaries and requirements to be effective, because that's just about the only consequence that can be imposed. Further, if it's not on the table for you, your WS might surprise you by filing for D in a way that damages you.

*****

You've chosen one of the best IDs I can think of. Recovering from being betrayed is close enough to going through hell. The thing is: infidelity's hell is temporary if you heal yourself; that is, if you process your feelings and get yourself out of infidelity. The 2 most obvious ways out of infidelity are true R and D.

I'm sorry you're faced with this difficult choice. The only good thing about it is that you can make a good choice for yourself, and you can heal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:47 PM, Thursday, February 23rd]

you need to draw that line in the sand and then wait for the WS to decide.

Keep in mind that direct verbal communications is not the only way people send messages or show their intent.

Like if your wife told you she was truly focused on losing weight and left each morning early to go to the gym then both her words and actions would indicate she was being truthful. If however she simply drove to the next fast-food joint for a greasy bacon burrito, a chocolate shake and cake… her TRUE actions would indicate otherwise.

When you laid out your requirements what was her reaction? How did she respond?

A sullen silence or a reluctant OK won’t cut it. It must be a resounding "I want this marriage", followed through with confirmable and accountable actions and behaviors.

Her dissing you and negative comments about you to others… those are her driving off to the GreasyMeals joint instead of the gym.

This is why I suggest you lay out YOUR plan:

Until and unless you clearly tell me you want THIS marriage and you want it because of ME… I am simply assuming you want out.

Note: I forgot to add to that sentence a key factor, so let’s use this version:

Until and unless you clearly tell me AND SHOW ME WITH ACTIONS that you want THIS marriage and you want it because of ME… I am simply assuming you want out.

And then YOU follow through with actions, because if you just say these words and don’t act according to them… then it’s YOU at the drive-in at GreasyMeals.

Those actions don’t need to be as drastic and direct as filing. IMHO filing is simply a step, a milestone, and not the destination per se. The actions can be things like starting to separate the finances, gathering relevant info for filing, canceling all joint plans, not going out or acting like a couple, letting stakeholders know of the affair and that your steps…

OK – In my first post I mentioned exposure. Very many see exposure as a tool to get revenge or payback or shame. I don’t. I see it as a tool to get the WS to commit. That commitment can be to the marriage or it can be to commit to the affair. Either is fine by me because either gives YOU a clearer path. In your instance I would consider telling something like this to the people she’s dissing you:

"My wife is risking our marriage and our family with her actions and words. I am not forcing her to remain in this marriage. If what she’s telling you is her truth, then she SHOULD seek happiness elsewhere. I do however feel that she’s simply justifying what she knows is wrong. I would appreciate your input with her to make her clear on what she wants, because I wont remain in a marriage where I’m at best a compromise. She needs to commit freely and willingly to me if we are to remain married."

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:47 AM, Friday, February 24th]

She may need more IC before she can grasp the magnitude of the devastation she has brought to the marriage. I hope you find the answers and resolution you are seeking.