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WH and I both worked with our ICs for several months before beginning MC together last fall. My IC said I was ready from the start. WH's IC wanted him to wait a bit which we did, but he didn't object when WH told him we were going to begin MC.

We started seeing an MC online. After the obligatory introduction meeting, we began working on sorting things out and working on a few communication techniques. Then the truth bombs started dropping. The MC encouraged WH to get any remaining secrets out in the open, and that he could do it in our sessions so she could support us both in the process. There were also truth bombs outside of our sessions that we would then take in to discuss with her. Any "progress" basically stopped because there always seemed to be some fresh hell to deal with each week.

I've been having difficulty in our MC sessions for the past couple of months. Last week, I had a panic attack and ended up in the emergency room (as described in a previous post) the morning after an MC session. I think I finally figured out why it's been so hard and has turned into such a negative experience.

Each time there was a truth bomb, an additional layer of trauma would be added. D-Day was almost a year ago, then TT about additional activities that started over 20 years ago, then truth about contact with the AP after he said he was NC. We started MC when I thought I had the whole truth. I thought I had processed it with my IC. I was ready for conversations with WH, facilitated by a professional, to work through what had happened, why it happened and how to move forward from there. But all we seemed to do was go to the MC with yet another truth bomb, another layer of trauma for me. I see now that I was no longer ready for MC. We both needed more time with our ICs to get ourselves together.

I feel like the MC should have recognized this and said something. For the past several weeks, she's been pushing me to say things I would never say. She wanted me to sit quietly while WH described his sexual needs so I would better understand them. It was too much, too soon! I started to cry and she asked why. I told her I don't give a crap about his sexual needs right now, not when I feel like I've been dropped in a hole. Listening to that just feels like someone is kicking dirt in the hole and I'm getting deeper and deeper. She actually argued with me at that point. She said, "Are you telling me how to do my job? I'm the therapist. You're not." I said, "No, I'm telling you that I can't handle this topic right now. Why does he get to sit there and express his sexual needs? That's what got us into this mess!" She actually apologized the next week for not "hearing" me. But I felt like she never should have treated me that way when I was saying I couldn't handle the topic.

This past week (after telling her about the panic attack that sent me to the emergency room), she started directing me to say certain things to WH that I didn't want to say and would never say. Again, I told her it was too much, too soon. I honestly could not comprehend why I would say such a thing to him and what good it would even do. She shot back again, telling me to trust the process. I told her I didn't even understand what she was asking me to say and why. She said, "You know, I'm thinking I might not be the right therapist for you. You've been arguing with me for weeks. You aren't willing to just do what I ask. I have a method and a process and if you don't trust it, why are you spending your time and money on me?"

I was bewildered. I'm not someone who just does things blindly. I need to understand, especially now. My brain is all over the place right now. If I say I don't understand something, it's because I truly don't. When she told me what to say, it was like she was speaking a different language. I could not comprehend it. And her way of dealing with me was to attack me and call me argumentative? WH said he didn't think she was attacking me, but he could see why I felt that way.

She suggested we take a break and regroup in 3 weeks. I'm going to discuss this with my IC next week, but we won't be meeting with the MC again. There's no reason. I now think of her as a trigger, so I'm not going to expose myself to her again. I'm just a little shocked at how she spoke to me.

[This message edited by FireandWater at 3:16 AM, Monday, February 20th]

Yeah, respectfully as I can say it..... fuck that! Seriously. That's some broken mess if you're supposed to listen to his sexual needs while you still don't even have the whole truth. I'd have fired her too. Just from a random guy online who also happens to have been cheated on, I think you made the exact right choice. If WH isn't prepared that it may take YEARS for any kind of trust and intimacy that leads to a healthy sex life, then he doesn't yet "get it". Im so sorry you received horrible MC.

That is truly traumatic! If you feel up to it, investigate that counselor's credentials, state licensure, continuing education credits and anything else you can find, because that sure doesn't sound legit!

Look at you standing up for yourself, well done! I took a lot of bullshit from various people before the betrayal. Not anymore - the only BS I need in my life is bags & shoes

Worrying about his sexual needs is the last thing you need to be doing right now. Good for you for communicating how you felt and shame on her for not hearing you. You were not being argumentative, you were being honest about how you felt. She chose to put you through more trauma and tried to shame you.

You did great.

Did the MC in any way imply that his unmet sexual needs were the reason for his affair?

Well, if you *were* telling her how to do her job, she should have listened.

Well done getting yourself out of there!

WH said he didn't think she was attacking me, but he could see why I felt that way.

The woman was literally trying to put words in your mouth and then accusing you of arguing. I find your WH's cluelessness puzzling at this point.

Good job firing that quack. Sounds like she took a weekend course, follows a script and doesn’t actually listen or hear if it fits your needs.
You and your WH are not ready for MC— you are still DEEPLY in the initial trauma, especially if he has been trickle truthing you so badly. Focus on IC for you and only you. Your WH can either get with work, become 100% honest and transparent, and work on his whys… or he can go pound sand.

I am sorry this happened to you. Please focus on you.

The reason I'm suspicous about that "MC" having legit credentials is because her "technique" you described violates established CACREP ethical standards and she was very "directive" - the opposite of empathic listening. Some techniques counselors try to use may well be more "directive" than other methods, but not to the extent you described!

When I went through D-Day 2 and my WH was under court order to seek counseling that could possibly reduce his sentence for soliciting a prostitute, I went with him to talk with a local CSAT who we found through one of those "find a therapist" websites. The stuff he came out with was so off the wall, and his trying to cast blame on me during the first visit, led me to investigate his credentials. Somehow I wasn't surprised to find out that his license had been suspended by the state for illegally having submitted "continuing education credits" using a course that had no merit under our state guidelines.So he was fraudulently continuing to operate as a CSAT!

Again, nothing wrong with your instincts and I hope you find good help and support for YOU, ASAP!

Are you trying to find a compromise in your M? Then you do not need MC. You do not do MC with a serial killer, psychopath, malignant narcissist, serial cheater, drug abuser, alcoholic, or serial liar because MC is not for marriages where one person is a toxically horrible partner and the other person wants them to change. The marriage isn't "sick." The communication isn't "sick." A compromise with the toxic partner is not on the table. There is no point to MC.

You both need to stick with IC. He needs to learn why he continues to stab you in the back without a care about you or your son--for your entire M--by constantly living a secret life. And you need to learn that it's not your job to try to fix this (i.e. proper boundaries). Maybe when he sees you moving on he will realize that taking you for granted was a big mistake. Maybe.

It will take a lot to change something he's been doing for 30 years.

She wanted me to sit quietly while WH described his sexual needs so I would better understand them.

Wow…

Of course your husband was sticking up for the MC, making you look like the problem.

"Are you telling me how to do my job? I’m the Therapist, you’re not"

Defensive much?

It’s amazing how much damage an inept therapist can do.

FireandWater, your post had me seeing red. No wonder you ended up in the emergency room. You were repeatedly stuck in a room with an unremorseful spouse and an arrogant jerk of an MC that was allowing your husband to use therapy as a means of manipulating you. Don't ever go back there again!

Don't second guess yourself for a second about how you argued with her. You were advocating for yourself and your needs, which is what you should do with ANY health care provider. If you were physically ill and told your primary care physician that the medicine she prescribed was making you sicker, do you think it would be acceptable for her to say: "Just shut up and swallow your pills! I went to medical school and you didn't; I don't need to tell you how this drug actually works, you just have to trust that it does. That will be $300, have a nice day." Hell no!

Edit; add: Also, in the wake of your most recent Dday, I think it's best if you focused on IC and spent that money you were spending on MC on a divorce lawyer. Your husband is a serial cheater who continues to lie to you and refuses to cut contact with OW (no matter how many times he promises to do so). This hell that he putting you through is destroying your mind and your body. The fact that he took the MC's side is just the latest proof of how he's incapable of putting your needs above his own.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:29 PM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

The woman was literally trying to put words in your mouth and then accusing you of arguing.

This.

Keeping in mind that we only have your experience and side of the interactions then I am not fully in agreement that the MC isn’t competent…

Sorry – I only share this to help… But MC isn’t easy. It IS inevitable that tough issues are discussed. IMHO the main purpose of MC is to facilitate, teach and train communication methods. At some point the MC might go into these areas. Like maybe the MC realized that talking about sexual desires was something you two (or H or you) had a hard time doing, and by pressing this pimple the MC could lower some reluctance to talk and/or hear about these issues.

To me a key issue might be if the MC put any connection between your husbands decision to have an affair and his sexual needs not being met… THAT would be totally off base IMHO. Comparable to suggesting a rape-victim that too much cleavage got her assaulted.

I think you are perfectly in order to let the MC know that you aren’t happy with discussing his sexual needs. That other needs are more important like your need for security, assurance and fidelity.

Bigger, I don't know how you can read the words "Are you telling me how to do my job? I'm the therapist. You're not" and think that there is some rationale for why saying that to a patient would be right. Also, I've never heard of a therapist giving a patient a "script" for what to say and then getting angry and combative when the patient says that they don't want to recite it. That's cult behavior, not therapy.

"She wanted me to sit quietly while WH described his sexual needs so I would better understand them. It was too much, too soon! I started to cry and she asked why. I told her I don't give a crap about his sexual needs right now, not when I feel like I've been dropped in a hole. Listening to that just feels like someone is kicking dirt in the hole and I'm getting deeper and deeper. She actually argued with me at that point. She said, "Are you telling me how to do my job?"

Bigger, she did let the MC know that she was uncomfortable discussing his sexual needs and was visibly upset.

The MC was way out of line with her comment and contributed to further traumatizing fireandwater.

I have read some of OPs posts and first I don’t think they should be in MC. To go to MC you need to first be certain 100% that the affair is over and the WH did at least some of the required work to become accountable.

Secondly, no WS that has done any work to become accountable and fully remorseful would be comfortable to state their sexual needs so early from dday expecting their wives to cater to these needs. I’ll be honest, if my WH would have ever discussed his sexual needs in the context of the affair I would have cracked his head open.

So for these two reasons alone I am glad that you have fired the MC, it is waaaaay too early for that. I’m fact you should only agree to do any MC once you have seen that your WH knows his whys (and these have nothing to do with you and things you have not done to keep him from sticking his penis in another vagina) and is fully committed to fixing the marriage.

As for the Mc- I’ve done a lot of it with 3 different therapists, not even the worse one, who was trying to convince me that my view on my marriage prior to Dday was not true (well obviously it wasn’t in some respect but that’s a different conversation), did not force me to listen to a cheater’s demands and told me how to react. That’s just weird.

Did the MC in any way imply that his unmet sexual needs were the reason for his affair?

No, she did not imply that.

She said that his sexual needs have obviously been an issue since the beginning of the marriage, and that the subject would need to be discussed at some point. I would have been fine with that statement if she had moved on and left the discussion for later. What shocked me is that she decided to delve into it right then and there, telling WH to go ahead and express what he needed and wanted in our marriage going forward. That's when it got to be too much. I sat there, biting my tongue, tuning him out and trying to control the urge to get the heck out of there (we were meeting online and I actually thought about leaving the house). But I sat there and waited for my turn to talk. I expressed my feelings on the subject and was basically told I'm not the therapist so I just need to "trust the process."

In terms of her giving us a script to talk to each other, that's the part that's really been bugging me. She said we need to practice speaking to each other so that the other will "hear" us. She recites a script and tells us we can put it into our own words. The times when I tried to say it my way, she would correct me back to her way. The problem was that her way wasn't something I would say, at least not right now. That's when she would accuse me of being argumentative. I would have been much more open to her letting me use my own words and coaching me along the way, not asking me to recite her script. When I flat out refused last week, she said perhaps we shouldn't be working together.

I said before that I'm not going to keep our appointment next week. I'm rethinking that. I'm going to discuss it with my IC tomorrow, but I think I might keep the appointment. If I don't express my feelings about her "process" and how it did nothing but cause me anxiety, perhaps she will get a better understanding of how she can affect people with her inflexibility and direct manner. Perhaps she'll just blow me off, but at least I will have said my peace. I looked her up before signing on with her and she does seems to be a qualified MFT. One of her specialties is infidelity recovery. Maybe she helps other people, but certainly not us.

You are one month out from finding out you had been in false since dday,and he had never gone NC with her.

It's way too soon for MC.

What consequences did he have for continuing the affair for the last 10 months?

I really think you should 180. Detach. Work on you,and see what work he does on himself. Everything he did for the last 10 months was a lie. A mask.

An MC telling him,one month after false R, to express his needs of any kind,to his BS, has zero clue about infidelity trauma.