SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm not sure how to start this. I don't think I've ever posted something so personal publicly before, even relatively anonymously, but I think I might lose my mind or explode soon and neither of those options are particularly appealing either.

My husband and I have been married for 19 years and have two daughters, 15 and 13. He's an alcoholic and although he has been sober for years, in the past few months he has started drinking again occasionally and it was one of these incidents that led to me finding out about his affair. So I'm really dealing with two issues here, although they are obviously connected. Thankfully the girls have been travelling with my parents since they got out of school in the middle of May. Anyway, we had to have our air conditioner completely replaced and so he stayed home from work a couple of weeks ago to be there the day they were coming to do that. When I got home from work that day, he was literally passed out on the couch with a tumbler of bourbon beside him that may have had a splash of water on top by the looks of it. I knew from experience he was out for the night so as pissed off as I was, I started grading my seniors' final projects because there was no need to be angry that night since I was the only person whose night would be affected at that point.

Eventually his phone starts blowing up. I finally pick it up and see texts from who I now know is OW asking why he won't answer her and asking if he is okay and saying she is getting really worried and really becoming quite frantic. I wasn't unfamiliar with who she was because I had seen a message from her before on the notifications on his lock screen and she's an old friend of his from high school. She's a nurse and it was innocuous, telling him about some kind of therapy for back pain which he'd mentioned he'd really been suffering with in a FB post (which is true.) Obviously, These texts were not innocuous. So now I start poking around in his phone. The first place I go is his photo vault app and I see things I completely expect like screenshots of the boudoir photos I had taken and gave him for an anniversary one year and then I see a lot of photos I didn't expect of a brunette. Like a lot. I'm blonde. These were extremely varied from slightly risque to make a sailor blush cliche. There were videos as well, but for the sake of my sanity I left those alone. Next I headed to FB messenger where I discovered that she had also sent several "Where are you?" "Are you okay?" Why aren't you answering me?" messages. I suspect he doesn't realize that you have to specifically delete conversations on Messenger instead of just archiving them because I was able to read tons of their messages going back for a very, very long time.

Holy shit, y'all. I don't even know what to say or how to feel. The absolute bs he is spinning to her is just unbelievable. The absolute bs he has told me about things is worse. I'm still digging but based on what I know right now this has been going on since at least Christmas. She's ready to tell her kids about him. She wants him to move in. I am absolutely blindsided and I never feel this way. I have so many questions.

I want to know every single detail but I also want to forget it ever happened.

I'm more upset about the boring, couple like messages and conversations than I am about the sex in his office lobby bathroom (I know, right?) and spending the day in hotel suites. That seems like normal affair stuff that I can wrap my mind around. I CANNOT DEAL with them both taking the day off work to go to his new chiropractor and pretending (I suppose) like they were married. Or the screenshots he sends her of people wearing Crocs (he loves Crocs and it's something everyone gives him crap about).

I'm angry and I'm sad and I'm having a very hard time keeping everything calm, but I really, really despise carrying on in public so I'll get my shit together. I haven't said anything to him yet because I haven't decided how I want to handle this or the re-surging alcoholism and I need to find a good therapist. And probably a lawyer.

Thank you for listening. If anyone has any advice for keeping myself in check, I'd appreciate it.

First off...WELCOME to the BEST club you never wanted to be in (((HUGS))).

You are correct in that the drinking and the affair are connected. The drinking lowers his inhibitions and allows him to freely carry on in his lies. I am happy to see that your precious children are away and not having to deal with this right away as well.

There is a thread pinned at the top of this Forum called "Tactical Primer". You may want to read that thread to help you...as well as reading in "The Healing Library"...which is an icon on the left of this post. It also gives you a list of the abbreviations that are widely used on this site too . These things may help you in deciding what you want your next moves to be.

I was married twice...and cheated on twice. The WORST thing I did was the "pick me dance" in my 1st marriage (M). That NEVER works. NEVER. You will save yourself a LOT of grief by not trying to NICE your Wayward Husband (WH) back into the M.

The BEST thing I did was immediately tell my 2nd H that our M was over as soon as he confessed to his affair (A). Honestly...it was my limbic system...or lizard brain...that just automatically went into the flight response when I was experiencing betrayal again. Whatever the case...when I got up and walked out of the room after calmly telling my 2nd husband (H) our M was OVER...it POPPED that affair fantasy bubble he was in so fast that it made his head spin!!! He told me later that at that moment he KNEW that the best thing that ever happened to him was walking away and all he wanted to do at that point was to be with ME . Needless to say...we were talking about reconciliation about an hour later. He has NEVER looked back...and neither have I .

There is a saying on here...you have to be willing to LOSE the M in order to SAVE it. This saying was definitely true in MY case. When my H saw I was NOT going to have a cheater for a H...he changed his ways quickly!! This doesn't always work...but in some cases...the Wayward Spouse (WS) was already planning to leave the M anyway and it was an exit affair. In MY case...my 2nd H and I have been happily reconciled (R) for almost 7 years now !

I can't guarantee you that your M will survive infidelity...but I can PROMISE you that YOU will . Please keep reading...and posting...all you want. We are here to HELP .

woah. thats some crazy crap salad you had to find. Im sorry. Id message her and expose the shit out of them

Cheaters, in the context of marriage are (among other things): selfish, deceitful, entitled, and lack empathy for their spouse.

Experience shows the best chance to stop the affair and save your marriage (if that's what you want) is for him to believe (really believe) that you will divorce asap.

Do not cry or beg in front of him (leave the room if necessary). Why? because in his current state of mind he sees that as a free pass to continue the affair (have his cake and eat it).

Inform him your immediate reaction is divorce however you will give yourself 90 days to make a (rational and calm) decision. Extend as necessary.

In the interim, he has a chance to prove he deserves a second chance by his actions (not his promises).

Believe nothing he says. His behavior makes him a liar and untrustworthy.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:30 AM, June 1st (Tuesday)]

I’m sorry for you. It appears the drinking and the affair started around the same time. Obviously you have multiple issues to address.

His drinking and cheating are all tied together.

Is it possible that he didn’t cheat when he was sober? Or he didn’t cheat in the past when drinking?

I think you need to find a good counselor for yourself immediately. Get a plan together before confronting him. Decide your next steps (when you are ready) and then let him know.

Honestly if he’s not going to get help for his drinking issues then you have limited options.

This is the best place you could have come to for help. Others will be in shortly to give some very wise advice. Mine is simple, take a hard look at the healing library in the yellow box in the upper left corner. There are some Excellent articles on the 180...implement that immediately. Also, consult a lawyer and have divorce papers drawn up. You don't have to file, but then, I'd you do need them you'll have them.

That will very likely get his undivided attention, and will likely rip him out of the fog.

[This message edited by redwing6 at 6:58 AM, June 1st (Tuesday)]

Thank you all for reading and offering support. Alice in Wonderland has always been my favorite fictional character but I never expected to fall down her rabbit hole (sucky adult version).

I 100% agree the drinking and cheating are related. I can't definitively say the cheating wouldn't have started without it, and it excuses nothing, but it I'm sure it didn't improve his judgement. On one hand it complicates how I feel like I should deal with this situation because I know what his triggers are regarding alcohol (wanting to avoid conflict, perfectionism) and on the other hand, I honestly don't give a damn. I've done my bit for king and country when it comes to standing by him and although I know alcoholism is a disease, I was already angry (but dealing with it) over starting that whole journey again and now there's this whole Chiropractor Wife (the OW - sorry, I tend to give people instant nicknames in my head which is how I think of them forever thereafter) thing which is just - wow. He is very fortunate to have a wonderful support system in regards to his alcoholism so I have reached out to them and told them about the drinking, not the OW since I haven't even talked to H about her yet, and they are going to talk to him and then us together to create a plan to deal with the drinking.

As far as my plan for the OW situation, I have made an appointment with my OBGYN and gotten recommendations for lawyers from my best friend who is a lawyer. I didn't tell her what is going on - just that a friend I teach with needed a good divorce attorney.

I'm very fortunate that my kids aren't home and I don't have to tell them anything right now. I have time to take a breath and think about how to handle this with them. My parents have a lake house about two hours from where we live and after spending over a year without seeing any of the grandkids, pretty much demanded my sister and I hand them all over for the summer. I'm so, so thankful they aren't here right now. I was planning on going down myself this past weekend but obviously that didn't happen.

I have no idea if I'm going to contact OW or not. Based on what I read, she is going through a divorce herself (but who knows if that's true or not - he's telling her we're only roommates) and her supposed soon-to-be-ex is an alcoholic and addict. Irony, thy name is Chiropractor Wife When I found the messages I screenshot them and sent them to myself and then deleted both the screenshots and the texts (and I also deleted the deletes because I'm apparently better at this than he is which I also find ironic) and I can't stop reading these stupid things. What is wrong with me? I mean really? I'm behaving like an absolute psychopath. I've logged into his iCloud on my laptop and I can go through his pictures and tell what he sent her. I've actually noted dates in my planner. I'm sitting here tracking the evolution of my husband's affair in a Lily Pulitzer planner alongside scribbles about faculty meetings and half-made grocery lists and reminders about oldest daughter's toe-shoe fees needing to be turned in by this date for the fall semester and his damn doctor's appointments. I have been so worried about how much physical pain he's been in and I thought that might be one reason he'd started drinking again.

This is our LIFE and he had this whole other one. It's just so unbelievably selfish. And these messages are so intimate in a relationship way. There are plenty that are sexually explicit and now I understand this new interest he'd developed in a certain article of lingerie which I thought was fun and now makes me want to scream, cry, set things on fire, and, strangely enough, laugh because what else can I do - it's something most of us probably wear every day. Those are definitely hard to read but the ones that really stick with me are the more conversational, homey ones - the ones that sound like the stuff he and I text during the day. It makes me almost physically ill to imagine him texting me and then texting her right after. How can he even do it? Does he feel nothing? I don't understand it.

I have to stop now. I'm babbling on like a fool.

Hi NDJC

I totally get the compulsion to do research on your WH’s actions and behavior. You had the rug of reality pulled out from under you and you’re trying to get your bearings and understand exactly what you’re dealing with. I think this is ok for you for the time being, but at some point it can become “pain shopping” and not really be helpful to you any more. A good therapist can help you with everything you’re going through.

I’m an alcoholic in recovery (15 years — I’m the BW and didn’t drink post-dDay because I leaned heavily on my support systems), and I want to tell you that you should not feel obliged to worry about any of your husband’s drinking triggers. His lack of sobriety is his own damn responsibility. He has a character problem. Yes, alcoholism is a disease but there are ways for alcoholics to treat it. He chose to drink instead of get help. His cheating might be a chicken or egg situation, but the root problem is that he is broken and hasn’t taken steps to fix himself. He chose to betray you instead.

Don’t let him know how you know— that way he won’t turn off the supply.

Keep copies of the stuff you forwarded in a secure place.

I’m so sorry you are here.

Glad you saw your Dr. and lawyer. Consider IC to help you decide what YOU want.

And IRL it can help to have someone to confide in. (Bestie, family, pastor…)

Eat healthy and drink lots of water— it helps a lot.

Take care of you.

((Hugs))

Hi NDJC,

Firstly - I'm really sorry that you are here and that you are going through this.

I completely get that you're more upset about the boring, couple-style stuff. I think that I was more deeply hurt that my H spent time swapping recipes and discussing his work frustrations with the OW, than the fact that they tangled tongues relentlessly. The one I could process as heat-of-hormones-and-the-moment stupidity. The other should have been only mine. Dammit. Not that I was OK with the tongues - just that ... never mind.

You need to talk to a real someone ASAP. Focus on finding a therapist that you have a connection with. Or a good friend that you can trust (who will support you getting to wherever you need to without bringing their own agenda into play). Finding a tethering point in the madness is not negotiable. You seem like a completely together person - the fact that you've held this all in so far speaks volumes. I don't know how many days and nights it has been since you found out, but if you've started reading boards like this, and assembling your own timeline and analysing data, then you really need a real-life person to talk to.

True story - my H used to drop our kids off on the way to his work at a school where the OW volunteered three mornings a week. He started hanging around to chat with her longer and longer ... and then one thing led to another. I extracted data from his Google timeline - the time he left home each morning, the time he spent at the school and then the time when he arrived at work. Years of it. I kid you not. I could show how their affair was months and months in the making - those minutes he stayed on at the school getting relentlessly longer and longer. I could see when they started to see each other outside the school. Then I overlaid our own family life's events over the top. I had graphs. Standard deviations and everything.

In my own experience, keeping a calm, objective and grown-up head in the midst of the madness may have looked better on the outside. But I was still falling apart inside and I needed to do something with those emotions so I could start working out what to do. I really, really needed someone to cry hysterically all over - in private. To ask who the &^*&%*& my H thought he was and how could I be so %^&* stupid? And because I'm an introvert and have issues with involving my friends in my crap, I found a good therapist. And she was on MY side. And I paid her, so I was more OK with crap-involving part. And that helped a lot. I got to keep my public shit together and throw my private shit wherever I needed to.

You are NOT babbling, and even if you were, you are not a fool for needing to do so. And your behavior is not psychopathic. You're just someone who is in a lot of pain trying to keep it together and figure out what to do next. And we are here for you.

Hugs NDJC. Lots and lots of hugs.

I am so sorry you’re here and experiencing this. Aside from what others have mentioned: lawyer, std screening, 180 & IC, I also want to say to please be kind to yourself throughout this process. Vent and let out whatever emotions you need to here and don’t feel bad about that. This is a very very hard experience to sort through. What helped me most in the beginning was journaling, IC, posting here and allowing for myself to feel the emotions I was experiencing while also labeling them. I knew that this experience would take me through a cycle similar to the grieving process so I would look at those stages and attempt to see where I was in that. Doing so helped me allow myself to sit with that feeling and not dismiss it. Granted sometimes it was too much to bear so I would turn to self destructive patterns which was where my IC stepped in to help me through those. Things are going to be challenging for a while...try to be as gentle as you possibly can with yourself as you sort through all of this.

(((Hugs))))

Hi everyone. Again, thank you for all the kind words and advice. Today hasn't been too bad because I've had a lot to do and I didn't have time to think about any of it really. Tomorrow is my doctor's appointment so I may have a nervous breakdown because I'm obviously going to have to tell her why I'm there since when I had my yearly, no joke, not two months ago and of course I told her there was no risk of any STIs. Whoops! Looks like I was wrong.

I also need to cancel a trip we had booked for just the two of us. We were going to leave a week from Friday and I was so excited about it. I thought he was too. We've always loved to travel - with the kids, without the kids, with my family, with friends, whatever. I should have done that today, but I didn't. Or I couldn't. I'm not sure which it is.

I'm still looking for an IC.

When should I confront him? I have no idea what to do or say. I have absolutely no intention of playing "pick me" or whatever it is. For one thing, I don't want my girls to think this kind of betrayal and dishonesty and utter disrespect is an acceptable way to be treated by anyone they are in a relationship with (not that I'm going to give them a play-by-play but kids aren't stupid and I assume there's a decent chance they might figure out something someday). I think I'm willing to R IF he agrees to be absolutely 100% honest with me, cut off all contact with her and prove it to me, and give me access to his social media, email accounts (home and work), phone, etc. I'm also willing to walk away. In fact, when I think about some of the absolute lies he told her about me and us. I don't know if I can ever look this man in the face again. He's sitting across the room from me right now on his phone and he just looked up and said, "I love you" with his cute little grin and I wanted to vomit.

Mizzbak - You're right. I probably do need to pick one of my girlfriends to talk to. I went out on the back porch the night before last at about 4am and sat in one of the swings and just cried. I bawled. The neighbors probably heard. I've never thought of myself as an introvert because I'm really outgoing and can be dramatic and will definitely talk to a brick wall, but I'd also rather die than air dirty laundry publicly and I do have a hard time sharing truly personal or emotional things with people and I hate to explain myself. My H used to call me British Lips Barbie because he thought it was so weird when we first started dating.

Anyway, he's been sober this week which is good, but I haven't been able to check his phone so I don't know what is going on. She must have an iPhone so I can't tell how much and when they are texting. They've talked on the phone every day a few times but not for very long and of course, I have no idea what was said. I don't know if he's been with her or not because he comes and goes pretty freely from his office anyway. We live in a medium sized city and she lives in a small town about 30 minutes away. He's taken whole days out of the office and spent the day at her house before based on what I read.

They haven't spent the night together but that's probably only because I haven't been anywhere overnight in forever because of the pandemic. Normally I would have had weekends away with my girlfriends and would have taken the kids different places and they would have had dance trips or school stuff and we would have gone to my parents' house - all that kind of things that people just do. I still can't wrap my mind around my life just going on like normal while he was carrying on this whole separate thing. It makes me feel like a complete idiot.

When he came home after being with her did he look at me and think "She is the most stupid woman on earth?"

When we were sitting here at night happily bantering back and forth like we do (because that's another thing - we have fun! we enjoy being together! we get each other's humor and like the same stuff just enough of the time to have what I thought was a healthy balance of together time and doing your own thing time) and he was texting her and getting nudes and God-knows-what kind of videos did he wish he was with her instead?

When we were playing Cards Against Humanity with the girls (probably inappropriate, I know, but hilarious) or laughing at how bad we are at doubles tennis making fools of ourselves in front of the entire park did it ever occur to him he was holding the happiness of three other people in his hands? Or that he was potentially throwing it all away?

I just don't understand. I don't.

So sorry young lady. None of this isn’t s on you.

Get your checks done for STDs and STIs. Then seek legal advice. After you fully understand stour rights and his responsibilities. Confront Him and the OW. Let her partner know prior to confronting your WH. Then release the full nuclear ☢️ warheads. Expose him to all. Being a alcoholic not in recovery is not a excuse to cheat. If anything it probably contributed to his loss of control regarding that monkey on his back.

Hard 180 right now be that grey rock 🪨

Respect to you and one day at a time.

Oh, I am a sailor, I don’t blush that easily.

[This message edited by Buffer at 10:28 PM, June 2nd (Wednesday)]

NDJC - It is a really big deal that you already know that you are not willing to play "pick me". The fact that you can see your way clear to walking away and know that you can do it if you need to? That is a powerful advantage.

I felt so powerless in the weeks after D-day. Stuck, stupid, ugly and pitiful. And ashamed as though his A was my fault. And having no clue what to do next. Then I started to get angry (finally!). One night at around 3am, I woke my H up and told him that I wanted a divorce. It didn't get to that - but it felt better to stride forward with purpose, even if it wasn't in the direction I eventually chose. Consequence-related panic is a powerful motivator for a WS. I can strongly recommend it.

After you speak to someone who can give you the emotional support you need...

You'll hear a lot of helpful advice about the 180 and seeing a lawyer to find out what your options are. A good IC will also help you make plans. But I'm a visual thinker, so I'm going to suggest an image to go with those:

Your H currently lives between two worlds - the real one with you and a ridiculous fantasy one with the OW. Think of them as two canoes. Currently your H has a foot in each of them. (Bear with me on this.) Start making your plans to paddle your canoe as fast and as furiously as you can - far, far away. Make it completely impossible for him to keep a foot in each canoe. Make him commit to one or the other and quickly. Paddle strongly - see the lawyer, evaluate your finances and admin situation, practice the 180, disclose the A carefully where it might make a difference, confront him (or ghost him), ask for a separation.. whatever you choose to do (but I wouldn't bother with the OW - she really isn't that important). But do it strongly.

Don't look back - not until you've left that other canoe far, far behind. And maybe not even then. And if it turns out that he's in your canoe at the end of that, then decide what you want to do about it. You deserve so much better than what he is at the moment. Your daughters deserve better.

My doctor's appointment yesterday was completely humiliating. I mean, she was lovely, as always. She's been my OBGYN for years and it was nauseating having to tell her why I was there. I gave her as little detail as possible. I did make an appointment with a therapist today and I talked to my family lawyer about some stuff of the girls' and mine that is in a trust from my grandparents but I still need to get a lawyer to deal with our assets as a couple and the actual legal process.

I've probably done something stupid and come to my parents for the weekend. I missed the girls and I had to get out of the house and honestly, I just wanted to lay in the sun and read and play with my nieces and nephew and see Mom and Daddy and forget all of this ridiculous nonsense. WS is a huge baseball fan so is OW (according to all the messages traded back and forth about team standings in the division, etc., and pictures of OW's team's knee socks and short shorts, both really adorable dammit, that were shipped to an address in her small town according to the screenshot and paid for with DH's corporate card) and their respective teams are playing each other in a weekend series in a city close enough for a weekend getaway but far enough that it's unlikely that anyone we know would see them (about 4 hours away).

I'm still waiting on the casual text from WS that's like, "Hey beautiful. I knew you were on the lake with the kids and I know service sucks down there, but I just wanted to let you know that fill-in-random-friend's-name-here talked me into blowing off the rest of the day and heading to ______ for the ________ games this weekend. I'll call you after the game tonight. Love you and the girls."

I may be completely paranoid and that may not happen at all. He may go to St. Louis with one of his buddies. Or he may not go at all. Or she might come to our house and stay all weekend and do all the stuff I read about in their messages six ways from Sunday all over my carefully curated fabrics and furniture and rugs and bedding and then I'm going to have to burn the whole house down and start over. I guess we'll see. It will be interesting if he has one of his binge episodes and she gets stuck with him because if anyone thinks I'm coming to the rescue they will be extremely disappointed.

I know I'm doing the wrong thing by just giving up this weekend before I've confronted him but I honestly just can't deal with it. I probably should have set up some way to try to catch him and if anyone has any ideas how I could now, I'm open to suggestions. I haven't been able to get his phone since that first night when I found out although I can see his pictures and calendar by logging into our family iTunes but his messages and emails aren't there and neither are his phone backups. I can also monitor the phone bill, but all that tells me is when they call each other because I guess she has an iPhone and those messages don't show up.

Ugh. I'm going to have cosmos and read the end of Hilary Mantel's third Wolf Hall novel. Lots of men being beheaded.

Or she might come to our house and stay all weekend and do all the stuff I read about in their messages six ways from Sunday all over my carefully curated fabrics and furniture and rugs and bedding and then I'm going to have to burn the whole house down and start over.

This may be an overreaction. Dragging the contaminated items out on the front lawn and setting them on fire there should prove sufficient.

Wise suggestion. I'm learning things here already.

I did receive the expected text and he texted the girls. He also sent a selfie from the ballpark and apparently one of his friends is with him because he posted a few pics on social media from the park as well. That doesn't mean anything, though, because if anyone knew about OW or if they hung out with any of his friends it would definitely be this guy and any one of his string of 20-something girlfriends. We'll see how the weekend progresses. It's so weird to hang out here acting like everything is normal when their is a knot in my stomach and everything most definitely is not.

I know I'm doing the wrong thing by just giving up this weekend before I've confronted him but I honestly just can't deal with it.

The wrong was/is done to you. Not by you. There are many ways through this thicket. Your need to spend time surrounded by those you love and trust, and who love and trust you is a completely understandable one.

I probably should have set up some way to try to catch him and if anyone has any ideas how I could now, I'm open to suggestions.

Why do you need to actually catch him? Is there more confirmation that you need that you don't already have? I get that you might feel a need to humiliate/challenge him by confronting him in a moment of undeniable deception. But you already have proof enough. And then some. Does having more empower you in some way?

Watching him from the outside, knowing the truth whilst he doesn't know that you know? There may be a seductive sense of re-taken power in that, but is it good for you? Each new faithless action on his part, each new lie that you know to be lie is just an extra stab to your heart. If you need this pain to spur you to action, then so be it. But you don't need to stoop down to look at him more closely in the mud to confirm where he is.

Can you talk to your parents or sibling about this? Do they at least know about his recent drinking?

I agree with Mizzbak, you don’t need to actually catch him. You already have evidence of his affair and it’s not a court, it’s not up to you to prove to him that he’s cheating, you have enough to tell him that you know. That is already enough.

There is nothing wrong with taking the weekend and spending it with loved ones. I’m the same I’m not sharing any emotional or personal feelings with anyone (maybe it is a British thing?) but I did eventually speak to one friend and that helped tremendously. You don’t need to tell them everything, you can tell enough so they understand what you are going through - also talking to strangers is often easier than talking to loved ones, maybe an IC?

Take care of yourself and your kids in the meantime.

Sorry to see you here, but you are doing it right. The need to catch him is completely understood. Just make sure all of your evidence is safely tucked away where he can't get to it and won't think to look.

You touched on something that I think bothers a lot of us - the mundane everyday conversation. Just wait until you confront him. I'd bet the ranch that at some point he says something to the effect of " We talked about everyday things, not just sex and dirty talk " as if that's something that we're supposed to be happy about or take solace in. My WW literally said those exact words.

Stay the course . You're doing great.