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He kept saying, "It wasn't a relationship," and I guess he doesn't think it was.

Wow. That stunned me. What, then, is to prevent him from continuing the notarelationship?

I don't have much more than the excellent advice others have given you except for one thing.

I felt so creepy when I read about the chiropractor visit. And you are right about playing house. She has delusions of taking your place.

I'd make sure I changed all my passwords for all social media if I were you. Not that she is so interested in you, rather that this is a way to peer inside of your marital life to get an idea how to outdo you.

Change names and passwords for FB, LI etc., and esp. all online health accounts. Ask your H if she checked his online acct (if he has one) and if she then checked yours, do what needs to be done. HPPA laws. They are not to be trifled with.

I'd change your daughters' passwords too. And something your H can't guess. I would not trust him right now.

He kept saying, "It wasn't a relationship," and I guess he doesn't think it was.

I guess he doesn’t think it was cheating either.

Not much to work with here if that is the position the cheater takes.

He kept saying, "It wasn't a relationship," and I guess he doesn't think it was. I can't imagine what that says about him or about her or what in the hell he thought he was doing. It's baffling

MIN-I-MI-ZA-TION = one of the cheater's favorite moves taken directly from the Cheater's Playbook. His assertion "it wasn't a relationship" reminds me of Bill Clinton's infamous minimization attempt "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" LOL. In psychology (and cheating!), minimization has a specific meaning:

Minimization is a type of deception involving denial coupled with rationalization in situations where complete denial is implausible. It is the opposite of exaggeration. Minimization, or downplaying the significance of an event or emotion, is a common strategy in dealing with feelings of guilt.

Minimization may take the form of a manipulative technique:

- observed in abusers and manipulators to downplay misdemeanors when confronted with irrefutable facts.

- observed in abusers and manipulators to downplay positive attributes (talents and skills etc.) of their victims.

Minimization may also take the form of cognitive distortion:

-that avoids acknowledging and dealing with negative emotions by reducing the importance and impact of events that give rise to those emotions.

- that avoids conscious confrontation with the negative impacts of one's behavior on others by reducing the perception of such impacts.

- that avoids interpersonal confrontation by reducing the perception of the impact of others' behavior on oneself.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 2:21 PM, June 16th (Wednesday)]

I haven't broached the subject of no contact with him yet. I guess that's next on my list if it seems like he's serious.

If he isn't already NC with Miss Notarelationship, then he isn't anywhere near serious to discuss even a remote possibility of a future with you. Reconciliation is hard enough in itself; if he isn't already 100% all in to trying....no matter what the outcome....then don't even engage with him about this.

I think he kept insisting it wasn't a real relationship because he says he doesn't care anything about her and he was just telling her what she wanted to hear. He admits he was being cruel and callous and selfish and not thinking about anyone but himself. He's saying all the right things but I don't know how I'm ever supposed to believe him. He came over after he left his office today to see the girls and he took them to eat and they're at a movie now. They asked me if they could talk to him about everything and I told them of course they could. He's their dad - they can talk to him about anything.

He asked if we could talk when he brings them home but I don't think I'm ready yet. I know he's been at his parents but even if he's cut off contact with her I don't even know how to start talking to him again.

He's been sober and checking in with his sponsor and counselor so that's a step in the right direction, but of course all that can change in a second.

I appreciate the advice about changing passwords and blocking her where I can. I randomly checked a few days ago and WH and OW aren't friends any more on Facebook but that means nothing of course. My first appointment with my therapist is tomorrow afternoon. I'm rather nervous about finally having a nervous breakdown, lol.

The problem with a WS who says this..

he was just telling her what she wanted to hear

Is..how are you supposed to know he isn't doing the exact same thing with you?

Obviously words mean nothing.....to him.

Your strength shines through. So please keep the focus on YOU and your kids. Make sure that eat, stay hydrated and get as much sleep as you can. Lean on your IRL support. Give your IC a chance to help you process this life altering earthquake. Please use the resources of this site and visit the healing library and the tactical primer. Read and then read some more.

One day a time. You don’t have to make any decisions right now. Getting the ball rolling on a legal separation is good along with getting your financial situation in control. One step at a time and move at your own pace.

He has to do all the work and show you his actions before you even consider to give him the gift of reconciliation. Reconciliation is hard. Separation and divorce is hard. Unfortunately, right now, you can only rely on yourself. He has a lot to prove. He has a lot of work to do. Starting with staying sober and getting help. He needs individual counseling along with his work to stay sober. He fucked up bad. He has to fix it. It’s all on him. Remember you did nothing to deserve this. His drinking is no excuse. It might have made him weak....but still his choice. He has to take full and complete responsibility....no excuses.

Let your emotions free.....cry, scream and even throw things (not at people). Then shake it off and just get through the day.

This is a journey.... a long one. No easy fix. No magic cure

(((((NDJC))))).

Your H's actions placed your oldest in a position that she should NEVER have been in - choosing whether it was better to keep quiet about something like this or tell you. Trying to choose which was the better option to protect her family.

Your girls are modeling their future expectations of the men in their lives on their father. FFS. Does he know yet that your daughter was in this position? The way you write about him, he sounds like a pretty good dad. Aside from the obvious. How would he feel about a hypothetical, future SIL who acted as he has in exposing his grandchildren to that kind of damage? Again FFS.

[abrupt change of subject] NDJC - you're being so strong, objective, loving and organised about all of this. Your ability to see around your own hurt and pain to ensuring that your girls get through this in the best possible way for them is so very, very special. And I commend you for it. Too often I read about both BS and WS who weaponize their children in situations like this. And my heart breaks for them.

I hope that your IC session goes well tomorrow. Start letting out some of those things that need to come out. And know that falling apart is a very necessary prerequisite to moving forward. Thoughts and hugs.

[This message edited by Mizzbak at 1:11 AM, June 19th (Saturday)]

My parents are great, but my mom has lived in her June Cleaver bubble all her life and the way she shows support is by asking the same questions over and over and honestly by nagging and I just cannot listen to it right now.

I think you're doing great. You made a lot of progress meeting with an attorney and talking to your girls... and you handled everything really well.

I just wanted to share with you that I made the same decision about my mother as you did, to leave her out of the loop. At the time, it felt like the right thing to do. She was an emotionally immature woman, a product of severe childhood abuse and basically a 16 year-old girl in an old woman's body; always rash, always judgmental. I remember back when I was a teenager, her, lighting out after one of my boyfriends with a shotgun. So yeah, I didn't want to tell her about what was going on in my life.

In retrospect, keeping such a vital piece of information back ruined our relationship. Brains behave weirdly in trauma, and feeling like I couldn't trust my mother to handle herself and to support me really made me angry at her, more angry than her shortcomings could account for. It was MY choice not to include her, but by making it, I felt abandoned by her. And I know it doesn't make sense, but that's how it felt. Trauma can allow our brains to made really weird connections, and somehow I had connected my WH's betrayal to my inability to trust my mother. It started innocently enough. I just didn't want to hear her run her mouth about my WH or for her to tell me what I ought to do. But it ended with her dying of cancer and not understanding why I had become so distant. So, my advice is to think not only about who you want to tell, but also about whether it can affect your relationships with others NOT to tell.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:59 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]

ChamomilleTea has wise advice.

The other thing to consider is the depth of a mother's love for her child. Talking to your Mom might result in her being able to offer you support and maybe even some good ideas/advice. You could tell her straight up that you're hesitant to confide in her but you fear losing your close bond and would she please not tell you what to do or how to do it. You'll listen to her ideas but you'll make your own decisions.

And then again, maybe it won't work with your Mom but I had to toss the idea out there, just in case it helps.

CT has re-emphasized the point that I made on another thread. Children keep secrets from their parents regardless of their ages. We don’t know your mother. We don’t know how she handles stress. Once my kids got into their 20s they started sharing the things they did as teenagers and it scared the daylights out of me. I was a much better behaved kid. I hope you believe that. Anyway, back to the point. If you feel that it’s safer for you emotionally to keep your mother out of the loop then that’s your prerogative. At some point she’s going to have to know. That’s when you use your grown-up voice and tell her that you need to get off the phone or leave the house. Just remember you have boundaries with her just as you have with everyone.

You're doing great! Next time he says that just remind him of the title of your post. His Dr thought she was his WIFE! And he let that happened. Nuff said

The problem with a WS who says this..

THIS!!

Hello NDJC,

Thinking of you and your girls and hoping things are going ... OK?