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I donít know where to put this.

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99problems posted 10/17/2020 21:33 PM

I'll echo many here and say that you are one of my favorite ex-W posters here. Your posts give hope and insight to those who are trying for R.
And fake R, well, I still don't have the words to describe the awfulness, pain, misery, and absolute hell. I've been trying to come up with those words. They may not exist.
Just wanted to say- we are all here for you.

Thanksgiving2016 posted 10/17/2020 22:10 PM

I am so sorry to read this. The reason I found SI is that I desperately wanted to find out what could have been going through my WH's mind when he was having his LTA. I needed to find something from the wayward perspective. More importantly wayward's who are remorseful. While I would prefer to hear from a male wayward, I am grateful for the wayward women who post too. To me, it seems men, for the most part, have different views on affairs. They in general, seem to have a more difficult time coming to terms. I also feel they are more likely to fall for ego kibbles than a woman. There's much talk on this site about it being only sex for men. I call BS on that. I don't know one middle aged man who doesn't LOVE getting attention from a woman. Do not discount the probability of him confiding to this woman about the affair and her becoming predatory. Many female AP's want the lifestyle she thinks her AP can give her. And she will not let that go easily.
I also remember my WH telling me if I had been the one to have an affair he would leave. I didn't and don't doubt it for a minute.
I remember on DDAY feeling much like you say. Feeling like my WH made a huge mistake, and I felt bad for him in a way. I never wanted to have an RA, I also think that is mostly a male reaction. I have been with my WH 30 years and I have a hard time imagining myself with anyone else. I will say that I am hyper aware of my behavior around the opposite sex now. I wasn't naÔve before but I examine every interaction and am hyper aware of boundaries. I don't believe I would fall into an affair. I think it's unlikely anyone does, but especially a BS. Being a BS makes me more aware of boundaries than I ever could have been.
It's unfair but honestly being a BS, I don't feel I could use the excuses a wayward has. My WH and I both agree that before his A we never would have realized the devastation his A caused. I just can't in any way see how I could have an A and claim to love him. No way. Because I know how soul crushing it was and will be. Forever. I love him. I'm still pissed at him, at roughly 4 years out, for what he did. But how could I look at myself if I did this to him, knowing how it would feel. And honestly I don't think if we both had affairs- not a one night stand-but affairs, what would be the point of being together. (of course we can always say what we would do until it happens).
I think in any relationship it's pretty rare two people are completely honest. we withhold in order to protect the other person and to protect ourselves. deep down I don't know how my WH feels about his LTA, I know what he tells me and I suspect I manage to project a huge dose of my own feelings into my perceptions.
Well I have rambled on long enough. I am sick hearing this.

Striver posted 10/17/2020 22:43 PM

Sorry for your relationship difficulties, HikingOut.

False R is when the wayward continues the affair while working on the relationship with the BS. So I guess a BS can't do false R. Some people complain about BS who are faking R, that they are planning to leave the marriage at a later date but don't let on to the WS that this is going to happen. Some don't like this, others don't have a problem with it.

BS are not perfect just because they are BS. HO herself had an A that she thought was an exit A. I guess she was going to have the A, then file, instead of just leaving? Or use the A as an excuse for dialogue, let the A break up the marriage? Until she changed her mind?

My perspective in "BS has to play by the rules" is a bit skewed because I got left for AP. So I played by the rules, and what did it get me? I did my best in my M, but I'm just some divorced guy today.

I don't want to hijack here. I hate this saying, but WS heals WS, BS heals BS, together they heal the marriage. Well, the WS path and BS path are radically different. Plus, the WS always knows everything, knows what they did, etc. and the BS is just reacting in real time to what they find out from the WS. They're completely different scenarios and require completely different skill sets. And who knows if the BS has a skillset set up for what they will face. Whereas the WS at least has it all in front of them.

I am not blaming anyone here, just explaining that the two parties in the R face radically different tasks, and their journeys can drive them apart as easily as together. FWIW, HO's H seemed like he might have issues with stuffing his feelings. I don't know, don't really know him. But with any BS, he's got "WS cheated on me, but now they want R, they seem sincere, but I still might be angry, but they're being nice now, giving me attention, laying on the sex, I've got all of this history, would lose money, time with the kids, but they cheated, now I look at other people and wonder more..." etc. etc. etc.

So a BS is there, typically less happy than the WS is with R, and they get a potential A situation, think that maybe this situation, this person will provide something that was lost in the marriage due to the A. Or they just want to hedge their bets, aren't happy at the time with how R is going, maybe they think WS will cheat again and it's a hedge if they cheat first, or they think of it as an exit A, the A will break up the M that they don't like and they don't want to talk directly about it. Until they change their mind.

I am just trying to provide something of value here and don't want to hijack. HO has had a different life path from me and some of what I think probably doesn't apply. I have to try.

BraveSirRobin posted 10/17/2020 23:27 PM

So the A lasted for a year and a half. Your H read here daily for two years, most of the time without your knowledge that he was doing it. Did he tell AP about SI?

hikingout posted 10/18/2020 00:23 AM

Foreverlabeled- Right now I think you might be right. I have only known for a week. Found out the second day of our vacation. Itís conflicting in a way because I canít sit with him very long because I donít want to hear about it. At the same time I understand him and believe him on most of what he said he was thinking. But at the same time I feel removed from it. Like the way I minimized him, he was doing the same towards me. I get it. It was a valve from his hurt to dehumanize me back. I donít struggle with his mindset the way I would have before having done this myself. I feel like I am reading a book I have read many times and have memorized all the parts.

Pink- I donít feel like the healing was fake. I know you mean the healing in the marriage. But all the work I did wasnít wasted. I put effort into the relationship that I should have. Itís on him that he wasnít. That doesnít make anything I did less worthwhile. And in some places I think some of what happened Between he and I still felt authentic to him as well. I get thatís majorly screwed up, but all this shit is really. Affairs are nothing if not full of paradox.

Striver- I didnít realize it was an exit affair at the time it was happening. There was no plan past the day I was on. Thatís pretty typical amongst most ws - that there is no strategy. I could only see in hindsight thatís what I was doing. I was trying to escape my life with this distraction - not really self aware enough to see I was seriously just done and blew up that distraction to be way bigger than it was. I think some of the same things apply to him in that way as well.

Thanks to the rest of you, so many good thoughts but not enough energy to address it all right now. So many things you all are saying does help tremendously. We have talked on and off all day today. He is not seeming to be in any fog about any of it, not sure what to think of that yet. I was exactly the opposite- so either he is hiding it or itís really not there.

waitedwaytoolong posted 10/18/2020 04:33 AM

I just wanted to add it how sorry I am for what you are going through. I know that with the purchase of the RV it was going to be the start of an incredible period of fun and travel. I had the same feeling as her affair took place as I was planning early retirement. We all get how affairs happen in times of stress in a marriage. Itís not so easy to understand when it happens when you see clear sailing ahead. It doubles the pain.

I also wanted to say how much wisdom you have put forth here. I hope you continue to do that. What you post helps others. It might feel that the advice you have given is tainted upon this revelation. Itís 100% not. Everything you have written stands up on its own, regardless of what he has done. His posts on the other hand are now meaningless. That is on him.

I truly hope you can work this out

Sunny69 posted 10/18/2020 05:13 AM

Dear HO,
Like everyone else here I feel side swiped by your post. I am truely sorry you find yourself in this position. You have been such a significant contributor to this forum and helped both BS and WS on their journey. I often wondered how you had the time and energy to be so proactive, but you did, and these outpourings reflect the appreciation for that time you gave.
I feel heart achingly sad for you, and so disappointed in your husband.

May I ask how you found out ?

Strength and best wishes being sent your way xx

Mickie500 posted 10/18/2020 07:07 AM

I am on the same page with you Striver. I am a BS and you described how I feel in R. You can read my reply on here where I speak about this destructive duality.

siracha posted 10/18/2020 08:24 AM

Im very sorry to hear what happened to you and I want to echo everyone else on how kind and insightful your posts are , thank you for that
I know your instinct is to say you messed him up and i want to remind you that people respond to trauma in the context of who they are and what they want.
You did not make him a cheater . Yes you caused him pain but he decided how to respond to it . If he got drunk every night he would be an alcoholic if he set your house on fire he would be an arsonist if he joined the circus he would be a clown. His actions define him , your actions can not define him
You went far above and beyond in doing your own work after your affair and i hope he has it in him to do the same . If he is anything like you i am sure you will both work it out .
Meanwhile as he sorts himself out please focus on your own self love and self care

foreverlabeled posted 10/18/2020 08:33 AM

I didn't experience a fog either. I think it's very possible for that to happen. And it's possible that he has enough understanding and experience with this shit that when it ended, he was aware it was what it was. When the bubble popped on my dday, I crashed back to reality hard, the fog didn't stand a chance.

I'm sorry you are going through this, I really thought you guys figured out a good way through your A and found success. Disheartening to read this update. Very very sorry HO.

I'm glad you came here to let us help you and lean on us. No better place for that. We will be here when you are ready.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 10/18/2020 08:53 AM

hikingout,

I am so sad to read this update. I have watched your story from the very beginning and have been a cheerleader for your reconciliation. You have grown tremendously and provide this community with honest perspective and compassion. I hope you continue to do so despite this new path you are on.

Never forget how strong you are and take whatever path will be best for you in the long run.

The only advice I can give to you is to do your best to keep your issues separate. Your affair is a separate issue from his. When discussing his A do not let him sidetrack you into discussing yours. It is much too early to allow those two things travel down the same road. Healing becomes too entangled and it allows for too much blameshifting.

I know you are still in shock right now. Lean on the community that cares and respects you. Thatís what we are here for.

Thissucks5678 posted 10/18/2020 09:43 AM

Iím just so damn sorry. Ugh. I donít have even have the right words. I keep typing and erasing.

hikingout posted 10/18/2020 13:35 PM

I found out because she was blowing up his phone while he was driving the RV.

Apparently he had been distancing himself and trying to break it off the last six months.Whatever that even means. When we bought the RV the writing was on the wall for her I guess. And she started being crazier. We were telling her we were going to do this full time in about a year. When we left for vacation in it last week she went nuts. Started texting him erratically. I was getting the texts though because he was driving. At first I pretended to him that I was talking to her about business questions but he caught on. I was talking to her like I was him because she was trying to say shit in what she thought was code but what I found to be obvious. She didnít know until we got back. She wanted to talk to me but I donít want to hear any nonsense- itís bad enough to sit and listen to him.

I donít think he wants her or anything to do with her. I
Wonít be blind about it but this situation is different than mine. I see relief, not pining. She is a trashy twit. We used to make faces at each other when she would be on speaker phone because she talks continuously and tries to make everything sound cool. Itís your typical cliche scenario. He would never really be with her.

In a very fucked up way I think he thought we were working on things and that we were in a good place. When you try and put it together for him - we are not in a good place if you are cheating on me. He said he felt like it was affirmation of all I have said in the past about affairs. It made him fully believe me. I couldnít stand to hear anymore at that point so we are taking another break. Was this a fucking science experiment? Sounds like it. He has IC tomorrow and then we will talk again. He seems willing to do whatever, time will tell on that one.

She has what I consider to be a common law husband. Together they manage our rental property. He does maintenance, she does admin stuff. He left when she got fired but I am not even exactly sure what it is he thinks is going on. We will disclose, h told her already that she should come clean. I am not clear on all those details. Right now we havenít made it far through disclosure and I canít tell this guy what I donít know. He is a really good dude, I always liked him way more than her. She is likely gonna lose the best man she had a prayer of getting.

The worst part? H had told the man about my affair when he thought he was going to divorce me. This would have been at our ten month mark. I believe, though I need to confirm, that he turned around and told his ďwifeĒ this info. I totally believe she saw it as an opportunity to move up her lifestyle. She started talking to h more about her personal life after that and eventually he told her about our situation. 100 bucks says she already knew.

sisoon posted 10/18/2020 13:57 PM

I am not angry with him right now. I am sorry for him. I love him. Itís hard not to understand what it is he is telling me. I have been to those places and I get it. Oddly I donít yet feel like he did this to me. I feel more like he has done something terrible to himself. I know thatís a weird thing to say but it is what I see at least right now. He is not healthy and I want him to become healthy. Whatever that looks like. Right now I am not sure this feels real to me and I donít know how to explain how removed I feel. I am disconcertingly calm.

I donít see vengeance here, itís something far more pathetic than that. This is something weak, not something strong.

First don't worry about not being angry now. It will come.

Second, I don;t see how revenge can be strong. It's just a response that hurts both the giver an receiver of revenge - it's, 'Well, I can't do anything good, so I'll just blow up the place.' How is an adult acting like a 4 year old strong?

More important, I think the thoughts you express - he's not healthy, etc. - are accurate, reality-based thoughts, and staying in touch with reality is crucial to healing.

You seem to be on top of your responses to this new sitch. You seem to be in touch with your reality.

That doesn't mean anything about the probability for R or D, but it does indicate, IMO, the probability of your healing is high.

And frankly, I think that - healing - is what counts.

Be yourself. Be true to yourself.

Thanksgiving2016 posted 10/18/2020 14:19 PM

Yes she already knew. I would bet she was, in her mind, having an exit affair. This is one reason I'm not a fan of disclosing to the world. Most people have agendas. One of the things in "Not Just Friends" I totally agree with. My marriage is MY and my husband's business. Nobody else. The windows and doors thing definitely. One thing I regret is not speaking with OBS after DDAY. I found this site Over a year later. WH went no contact but I regret not having him tell her off. Basically he ghosted her, at my request. She gave a very watered down version of how she was basically tricked into a one night thing instead of her 8 year LTA. Her BS ate it up. He focuses all his anger on my WH while she occasionally still puts out feelers for my WH. But I figure let sleeping dogs lie.

One thing I have learned is that affairs are complicated. I don't believe any BS fully recovers. To some extent the BS, especially after a LTA, has to do some rugsweeping. That sense of unfairness, of lack of justice will never be satisfied. I would like to hear from your H on his feelings.

Has he been in IC all this time? I personally don't think it works for most people because they aren't truthful with the IC. I believe if a person could be 100 percent truthful to an IC and open to change then they could do that on their own with self help. I think they spin a tale with the IC in order to hear what they want to hear.

I have been considering if I want to read the book "cheating in a nutshell" I have read it states it is best to leave which is why I am hesitant. Why read if I have no intention of leaving? I am tired of examining every emotion and action daily, but also convinced I would be miserable divorced. I can't imagine having to examine life through both angles. Maybe at the very least communication will be more open?
Wishing you strength.

Edited to add- she is going to go crazy when she realizes it's over. protect your business, passwords, keys, etc. And her SO will want someone to blame too, so be aware there.

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 2:25 PM, October 18th (Sunday)]

hikingout posted 10/18/2020 14:35 PM

No my h has never been to IC. We did MC for a very short period of time after deciding not to divorce and after almost a year of me being in IC.

Yes, I am afraid way have a bunny boiler too. H has already changed passwords and all of that. She has some equipment we bought her, think we are going to just leave that alone. How does the AP put feelers out for your H if they are NC?

Chaos posted 10/18/2020 15:02 PM

Oh hikingout I'm so very sorry to read this.

There's not much I can add that other's haven't. But do want you to know there is yet another person offering hugs.

PS - as for the common law husband - expose that. You know the drill.

Take deep breaths, share more when you are ready.

Remember - HIS actions are all on HIM.

WalkingHome posted 10/18/2020 15:48 PM

Terribly sorry to read this, but not 100% surprised.


Going from memory, but don't I recall your H posting here about how he wasn't as angry about your A because he sees the world in less black/white and more shades of grey? He seemed to have some moral flexibility where a lot of people would have hard boundaries on relationships. I think I recall you mentioning that your relationship with your H had, at times in the past, been somewhat openish? I am going from memory, please forgive me if I am wrong here...


Not saying any of that is a reason to cheat, but people who see the world through a morally flexible lens and who experiment with alternative dating/marriage styles tend to end up in a rough spot.


Maybe there are some larger background issues to address with him on the topic of grey areas before the M is even discussed.

Sadwife53 posted 10/18/2020 15:51 PM

Hi HO

I want to be one more to thank you for your time and effort over the years. I donít post much but I want to thank you for helping me personally by putting your thoughts and feelings into words in a way most canít or donít bother to. Youíve helped more people than you know.

Iím so sorry this has happened to you. Even if you understand how it happened, the indescribable emotional turmoil and pain that will eventually be upon you can be unbearable. I wish there was a way to avoid it, but I donít think there is. It seems to me though that youíre strong enough to handle it and smart enough to know it will pass. I hope you and your husband can work it out. His colossal screw up was his choice alone and he shouldnít get off any easier than you did. I hope he works just as hard as you did to figure his shit out.

How does the AP put feelers out for your H if they are NC?

Make sure she's blocked for text and email. She may try to use a different number, or use a mutual friend to try to get through to him with some excuse why it's vital to speak with him.

[This message edited by Sadwife53 at 3:55 PM, October 18th (Sunday)]

crazyblindsided posted 10/18/2020 16:33 PM

(((hikingout))) I am so sorry to read this take your time in evaluating what you want and practice lots of self care. Your now WS has a lot of work to do on his poor coping skills. As you know I am a madhatter as well and no one deserves to be betrayed.

I have always been impressed with your ability to 'get it' and it helped me also to open my eyes to how unremorseful my STBX really was.

I have no words that will take away this pain, now that you join the ranks as a BS. One day at a time. Hugs to you dear lady.

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