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I donít know where to put this.

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landclark posted 10/16/2020 23:22 PM

Well, WTH?! Heís an idiot.

You would tell me this, and I will tell you - It is not your fault!!

Like somebody else said, you owned your shit and he needs to do the same. Youíve been a safe and loving partner, and now he is failing you. Thatís on him, not on you! There is zero excuse for him to be carrying on, especially with somebody who works for him. Thatís a special kind of stupid.

Donít take this blame on. You are not to blame for his actions.

Sending virtual hugs. Youíve been there for many of us. Let us do the same for you. 💕

MyAndI posted 10/17/2020 00:08 AM

HO, you have not forfeited your rights in the relationship you are both supposed to be committed to. If he's having problems with boundaries he by no means should be held to a lesser standard then he expects of you. Sorry you are having trouble. Sending positive thoughts.

Lucky77 posted 10/17/2020 06:29 AM


Huge hug coming your way ((((((((hikingout)))))))

cf2018 posted 10/17/2020 08:32 AM

Please know this is not a justification for his actions at all but something I've been wrestling with lately is the feeling that no matter how hard I work to rebuild things with my WW, that our relationship will always have this damage under the surface. Like a healed bone, the traces of the fracture are there regardless of how strong it feels. I have pondered crossing my boundaries more lately than ever and the only rationalization I've found is that (in my head) it's because I want something new/undamaged. I recognize how unfair that is to my wife and how that disrespects the works she has put in. I guess in some ways, it's a bit of revenge that I haven't completely gotten over. Not sure if this helps or makes sense....

prissy4lyfe posted 10/17/2020 08:33 AM


Infidelity is such a nasty fucking beast....


I'm sorry Hikingout..im sending you all the love and positive energy I have. Please reach out when you need too. I am so sorry your hurting.

HellFire posted 10/17/2020 08:55 AM

I do think I did cause this.

I knew you would. Here's the thing, though. Nearly every BS blames themselves. Check out the new posts in jfo. Every week,a dozen new BS show up,and they all blame themselves. They were too busy with work,or the kids. They hadn't lost the pregnancy weight,or they were pregnant and felt unattractive. They didn't cook enough,etc. And EVERY reason is bullshit. You blaming yourself because you cheated years ago is just that. Bullshit.

You know you didn't cause this. You are just too hurt to see that. Would you tell ANY of your madhatter friends here on SI that their spouse's affair was their fault? Of course not. The same goes for you.


You will be ok. Stay strong.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:56 AM, October 17th (Saturday)]

hikingout posted 10/17/2020 09:51 AM

Itís been a year and a half.. It started right around the time I felt things got better. I am such an idiot.

Itís one of those situations where he was leaning on her too much. I donít think it was revenge, more he was vulnerable. She does our books, I know exactly what her interest is. I will give him he isnít saying much in the way of stupid shit- other than he wanted to end it with her for a long time. Okay. I get it in one way but in another, that just pisses me off.

I donít blame myself exactly. But I absolutely do not believe he would have done this without the other circumstances. It isnít excusing it, itís simply true. At the same time I know I just have to make my requirements and see what he does moving forward. I have told him NC, IC, STD test, and we change the divorce papers that we drew up to make me get equal shares. I am not considering filing right now, but itís the principle on that one.

He gave me a new ring around the time this shit started. That has to go too. A guilt ring?

We have done so much work the last 3 years. It makes me tired to think about starting up that hill in the other direction now. We have been in very low contact (mostly him texting) but we are supposed to talk this afternoon. Supposedly he has terminated her and has gone NC. As long as that is happening, I want him to come back and live in the house.

I donít know details yet,, I couldnít listen to it. I am just not sure I want to know. I am not sure it really matters - itís like second verse same as the first sort of thing. I am mostly wanting to evaluate whether there was limerance, And I want to try and understand how my life lines up with that 18 months. I canít see it with what I know from my side. I didnít have a single suspicion. I am wondering if this is why he decided we should retire early and go travel in the RV full time? Easier to get away from the situation? Or was I even really part of that plan?

MyAndI posted 10/17/2020 09:58 AM

Time for the 180, HO. You can't allow the destruction to continue. JMHO

Neanderthal posted 10/17/2020 10:09 AM

I donít blame myself exactly. But I absolutely do not believe he would have done this without the other circumstances.
This is something I believe only madhatters would understand. There's always cause and effect. But as you know, he had so many healthy ways to cope and handle things. His decision to do bad things, is not on you.

You know the drill.
Self care first. Eat, exercise, sleep. Continue to set boundaries, but don't beat yourself up if you don't do everything perfectly.
Give yourself some time. A bomb just went off in your life. One day at a time for now. You have time to decide how to pick up the pieces.

I am so very sorry this happened to you. Absolutely no one deserves this.

BraveSirRobin posted 10/17/2020 11:15 AM

I'm so sorry about your ring, too. I remember that post and how happy you were.

Mickie500 posted 10/17/2020 11:43 AM

Is it okay for BS to post?
I sometimes feel it is very cut and dry on here and I donít want to bring down the pillars of this communityó-but as a BS I sometimes feel sorry for my WH and you guys come down on me like Iím delusional and I sometimes feel angry that you feel there is no place for those feelings in here. For example, my WH felt like he gave more than I did and poured more into the relationship which I can see is true so when a pillar of reconciliation was for the WS to do most of the heavy lifting I thought ďoh shit- thatís the very thing that lead him hereĒ. This community makes people feel like the WS has to suffer in order for optimal healing of the betrayed spouse when most of them are already broken.

I am not cut and dry in here. As a BS I am lost and confused and destroyed most days so if I slip into self destruction I think itís to be expected. I donít know hikingoutís Bh/Wh but I am so happy to see her heart and truth on here. She never sugar coats it. Iím not either. I donít know whether Iím coming or going or what to believe. I donít trust anything. Thatís my reality. Iím mAking moves from a flawed space.

I am trying to tell her I agree 100% with her saying that she knows her BS would have never stepped out if she hadnít óóand that is also true for me. Betrayal is so destructive that you self destruct yourself.

Maybe itís because Iím an educator and Iíve witnessed students when I was a Dean of Students so many discipline issues stemmed from familial troubles. So much classroom disruption stemmed from trauma in the home. So yes I guess I could blameshift if a teenager Junior in highschool keeps cursing out her teacher and I say itís because her mother works nights and her motherís boyfriend rapes her and her mother was told and doesnít believe her. I guess many of you would say the student needs to own her attitude and actions.

Iím supporting you hikingout as a WS and as a BS. If that means I am considered to be committing the ultimate sin of blame shifting than Iím sorry. WS do more damage then the ever intend and some of the natural consequences of destroying a personís sense of safety causes them to be unsafe.

Iím here for you hiking out.

sisoon posted 10/17/2020 11:51 AM

I'm sorry, hiking.

I can understand thinking that he wouldn't have done this if you hadn't cheated, but it's still tremendously painful to be betrayed. Don't stuff any feelings about being betrayed because you are also a betrayer. They're 2 different things, and both have to be taken fully into account for you to heal.

Keep in mind that you are not obligated to offer R, unless that's what you want.

And keep in mind that you don't have to make a quick decision about D/R - but the quicker you start healing, the better for both of you.

Again, I'm sorry you've been betrayed. I'm glad, though, for your strength and for your clarity of mind.

pinkpggy posted 10/17/2020 11:55 AM

Iím literally sick to my stomach reading your update. Iím
So sorry.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 2:09 PM, October 17th (Saturday)]

Buck posted 10/17/2020 12:14 PM

I donít blame myself exactly. But I absolutely do not believe he would have done this without the other circumstances. It isnít excusing it, itís simply true. At the same time I know I just have to make my requirements and see what he does moving forward. I have told him NC, IC, STD test, and we change the divorce papers that we drew up to make me get equal shares. I am not considering filing right now, but itís the principle on that one.

Hiking, before I say anything else, I'm sorry this has happened to you. Seriously. I personally feel your situation, being unfaithful and then being betrayed, puts you in the worst possible position for recovery going forward. This viewpoint is based solely on my experience as a MH.

I also think it's wise that your recognize that your betrayal factored into what happened. I think that attitude may allow you to have a productive conversation this afternoon. I feel that if you go into the talk with the "how could you" outrage/hurt of a "typical" BS you'll be in for a bit of a shock. I'm saying this because I hope you can steel yourself for some of what you're likely to hear this afternoon, the convo you're going to have can diverge quickly down some damn unpleasant paths and I'm trying to save you from being blindsided.

I'm also not condoning RAs. I fucking regret making that choice for many reasons. The fucked up thing is, hurting my WW is not in the top 5 of those reasons.

I hope things go well for you hiking. And again, I'm sorry this has happened.

maise posted 10/17/2020 12:38 PM

I am so so sorry. Weíre here. ((((HikingOut))))

jb3199 posted 10/17/2020 12:42 PM

But I absolutely do not believe he would have done this without the other circumstances. It isnít excusing it, itís simply true.

It's absolutely possible. It's also absolutely possible that he would have. Problem is, neither of you will ever know for certain. The only certainty is that there is a lot more rubble to sift through.

I am sorry for you. I really am. I can only imagine your hurt, especially after putting in so much effort SO YOUR MARRIAGE WOULD NEVER SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS AGAIN. It must be exhausting along with painful. But if there is one member who I really feel can work their way through this on a personal level, it would be you. Take care.

Mickie500 posted 10/17/2020 12:45 PM

I am also not condoning RAís.

Lucky77 posted 10/17/2020 12:51 PM

Dear Hikingout,

I have so enjoyed listening to you find your voice during our three years here. I believe you are a great person. To be great one needs to be introspective, see the world beyond themselves, serve others at a high level and to make the most of all the god-given skills and wisdom one has. By that definition I consider you to be great.

I relate to your H as a male who cheated on his W for way over a year. I don't believe it is material that his cheating lasted two weeks or two years. I really don't. The fact is that he got caught up in all the feelies and ego kibbles of his A and set up his own little world outside your marriage. This makes him human. Deeply human. Deeply flawed. I think us humans spend our time on earth in two ways......one accomplishing great things to our highest ability......playing defense against our demons to keep us from living a train wreck and trashing our lives. Your H has spent the last year living this train wreck. He is flawed.

I see his A as a huge puss-filed boil on the side of his neck. It's huge. Like a watermelon. You just swung a razor-sharp box cutter across it and it just exploded nasty puss all over himself, you and the room as all its ugliness gets revealed. You are in shock. You are still cleaning up the mess. It's my belief your H is not bad, by definition. He is deeply human. Deeply flawed.

Just as I have had three years of looking inside at my deep flaws.

Maybe you need to toss out that ring. Be mad as hell at him. Only you can decide R or D. But you know your flaws. We have had the privilege of knowing you while you have healed. We are grateful for the wisdom you share with us all and the care that you give us all.

I am heartbroken for you.

DevastatedDee posted 10/17/2020 12:56 PM

The part of me that is a BW is absolutely brokenhearted for you. I know how this feels and I don't wish it on anyone. It's the absolute worst.

The part of me that is a MH is also pretty appalled. I'm not proud of my DDay RA, but I can safely say that I couldn't have done what your WH did. The planning, the deception, the long-term lying and gaslighting is not indicative of someone who reacted emotionally in a moment of trauma. This was deliberate and cruel. I'm sure there was a large part of him that was driven by resentment and vengeance. Understandable feelings, but those aren't resolved by cheating back like this. My RA didn't at all fix the pain of being cheated on. I don't think I could have stayed for the months that I did had I not had an RA, but that wasn't because it made it equal. There is no justice for infidelity. Trying to create it is a waste of time. It did not feel good to see the pain on my XWH's face when I confessed it to him. Nothing positive came from it, nor could it ever have.

I do feel that something gets broken horribly with infidelity and the vows don't mean what they used to in your heart. The marriage is shattered. If he felt that it was too shattered and broken to be rebuilt without infidelity, he should have left. That's the obvious answer. Pretending that he was all in and getting some sort of revenge on you on the side is profoundly dishonest. So sure, he might not have ever cheated had you not cheated first, but I don't know what the fuck he thought he was accomplishing by handing that pain back to you.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 1:21 PM, October 17th (Saturday)]

DevastatedDee posted 10/17/2020 12:59 PM

I am such an idiot.

BTW, if this is true, join the fucking club, lol. We were all idiots here.

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