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I donít know where to put this.

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Unhinged posted 10/19/2020 18:09 PM

I have probably 12 personalities right now and they all argue with each other.
Feeling a little... um.... unhinged? It's natural, you know? The rollercoaster doesn't discriminate. I don't know if having been on the "other side" will make much of a difference for you. I'd imagine you're going to go through all the craziness that the rest of us experience. I truly hope this doesn't negatively impact the tremendous work you've done.

There is no justification for infidelity. Personally, I think "revenge" is absolutely the most pathetic "justification" for infidelity I've yet read on this website (or anywhere else for that matter). It's not "fuel" for an affair.

...the injustice of being betrayed is hard for some of us to handle.
It's hard for ALL of us to handle. There is a huge difference between surviving infidelity and allowing it to break you.

ETA: hikingout, your H didn't survive infidelity. He let him beat him. That's 100% on him.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 6:12 PM, October 19th (Monday)]

Evertrying posted 10/19/2020 18:17 PM

Fuck.

Wow. I am so sorry HO. I can't believe this is happening after all the two of you have been through. I can't imagine where his head was at and why he did this.

YOU are not to blame so don't even go there. I am angry for you so for me, a lot like Pink, I will support you and keep my thoughts about him to myself. Except to say that I am completely surprised he would do this.

Evertrying posted 10/19/2020 18:24 PM

where he was leaning on her too much. I donít think it was revenge, more he was vulnerable

Very typical. Man cries boo hoo to another woman about how his life is so "terrible" and his wife cheated (I assume he told her about your A) and he gets the sympathy card from her and she tells him he is master of the universe. He sucks it up and there ya go,,,,Affair.

Sigh,,,,,

RosesandThorns posted 10/19/2020 19:00 PM

I'd suggest not making any decisions not only about R vs D but also regarding whether or not you are ready to hear his side of things. Or understand his reasons yet. Anything outside of fact gathering. I can see you trying to understand him and make some sense of this, but that is very hard to do this early on, even with your unique history together. He has violated your trust in a major way...that is one of the reasons behind the 180. He is his own enemy at this point and can't be trusted with your well-being. Even if you are a former WS, you have all of the rights to and would benefit from at least a partial 180. Even if he seems genuinely remorseful. He could be. But you are too close to this and it is too early for you yet to determine that, in my internet stranger humble opinion.

I won't keep banging on this point. (I promise!) You don't deserve that, and I'm sorry if I've over-stepped.

You will navigate this, HO. You are obviously smart. And strong.

I'm sorry you are in this place right now.

Babette2008 posted 10/19/2020 20:14 PM

He is saying that for the last six months he just wanted to take it back and make her go away. There is consistency in that and what she was saying in the texts while he was driving.

"I just wanted it to end" is frankly, one of the lamest excuses out there. "Poor me, she just wouldn't stop wanting me because I am so desirable. I just hoped I could magically make everything all right by keeping the affair going at a low level". This excuse is all about them. Its not about your feelings, its not about their AP's feelings its all about their feelings.

Seriously, if right after the affair started 1.5 years ago he came to you and said "HO I am so sorry. I was really angry about your A and I slept with x. It was a completely shitty thing to do, I regret it immensely because I know that I want to be with you and I want to make it right" - I think that you and he would be in a very different place right now.

Ok, so maybe having your A gave your H the mental space to cross lines that he might not have crossed had you not had an A. Barriers that the pre-A version of him might have had were lowered. BUT you have to bear in mind that he didn't just cross a line. He demonstrated a shocking level of disregard for the marriage and for you in his actions. He lied about something that was core to your marriage for 1.5 years and there was no sign that he had any plans to stop lying.

I get that you love him. I get that you want to show him grace and understanding because you want grace and understanding. But its ok to be mad. You should be mad. And he needs to be able to deal with you being angry about something that he did.

To quote the ever wise Sisson - it takes 2 to R.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 10/19/2020 21:10 PM

IMO, and in my experience, this is really bad advice and totally not realistic. There is no way to discuss his A without mentioning yours. It's fucking absurd to think that what you did and how you handled the aftermath had no bearing on his choices.

Maybe I can add some more clarity to my original advice of keeping things separate.

My husband is an alcoholic. He stopped drinking the day after DDay (not a coincidence). I justified my affair by blaming my self esteem on his drinking problem. I truly believed that the only way my husband could be with me was if he was drunk. When DDay happened, I could have easily blamed my affair on his drinking. He also could have easily allowed me to do it. Fortunately he had the wherewithal to see that we each had issues that needed to be addressed and addressing them together was only going to make the water murky so we agreed that we would discuss the issues separately.

Not discussing his drinking problem allowed for me to have full accountability for my own actions. It was the springboard that allowed me to move forward and eventually make the changes necessary for a successful reconciliation. Itís not that I was never allowed to discuss the pain his drinking caused me. On the contrary. Those discussions were tabled for times we were not discussing the A. Itís not easy, but itís possible. Itís how HT and I were able to heal.

Ultimately if his drinking led to my A, then my A can lead to more drinking and the cycle never ends. Eventually the cycle has to stop and that happens by someone actually stopping and taking responsibility for their own actions.

HO, you have taken responsibility for yours. Itís time for him to take responsibility for his. There will be a time when you can talk about both affairs at the same time without muddying the waters but now is not the time.

What your affair will allow for is empathy for what he is going through. Perhaps now that he has also had an affair he will gain empathy for you as well.

I wish you both well whatever path you chose. In the meantime, lean on this amazing community as they offer you support and strength.

RocketRaccoon posted 10/20/2020 00:28 AM

Hiking,

Late to the thread, but am so sorry to read this has happened.

Just would like to say that you WILL get through this, one way or another.

The growth you have gone through will serve you well.


RR

hikingout posted 10/20/2020 08:23 AM

Thanks everyone, truly.

I know some of you want me to put on my big bitch boots, and just get angry. I imagine that is in front of me somewhere. I don't think I get to circumvent the whole process by any means. He doesn't get a pass on it. I am just not there (angry). I would have to disregard too much to get in that place right now.

I stay mostly in a detached state. Probably an unhealthy one, because it is more like it is happening to someone else. I know inherently how unsafe he is because I know how unsafe I was. I think I still am projecting in assuming he may be hiding his fog better than I did. On the other hand, I would not have made it a year in my affair without leaving. I was just not great at compartmentalizing/cake eating. It makes me feel like I am not dealing with the same animal. I know there are lots of male WS here that I don't understand where they are coming from on some things, or BW's who describe their husbands. It's starting to sink in that maybe I don't get it and I am starting to separate some of my projecting. Maybe he is a great compartmentalizer because he's done it before? Or it could be he just didn't have that emotional aspect that I experienced. He is claiming the latter. I don't know, he traveled a lot while the kids were growing up, so I am not ruling anything out right now. I will say I never once have suspected him of anything, but my alarm didn't go off on this one either.

Last night we talked probably the longest we have consecutively. The part I wanted to hone in on was COVID shutdown. It occurred to me driving home last night that he keeps saying he wanted to end it for 6 or more months. I realized that we went on lock down around that time (end of March). We were together 24/7. I noticed nothing strange at all. In fact, it was as if we were on our honeymoon during that time. I was sad to go back to the office after having those months at home. So, I wanted to know what was happening during that time. It was such a wonderful time from my standpoint.

He said he just kept brushing her off using the excuse that I was around and he couldn't interact with her. It sounds like he made me out to be some sort of clingy woman or something. He said he did act to her like he was annoyed with the situation. He never saw her during that time and they were in contact but mostly over business matters.

He claims there has been no physical intimacy between them since then. He has kept her at an arms length but she wasn't accepting it. I went back to the office in June. It's October. I don't know that's a long time and he still works from home. Our youngest daughter was home some over the summer so that would have limited him some but she has been gone a couple of months now. He told me last week that things started around April or May last year. He said that they had been talking more and more about personal things and out of the blue they kissed around then. He said that he didn't know it was going there (hmmm not sure I buy that), and that he pulled away. He claims that he was going to tell me then, and he was going to institute boundaries but then he didn't.

He said he thinks she was in denial until we bought the RV and then she started acting crazy. He thinks she probably outed him on purpose with the texts to blow it up. He said that it was evidence to her he was planning a future with me, so I guess it make sense that she might have wanted to put a wrench in that. I don't know, I know I am a WS but it would never have occurred to me to try to do things on that level. But, maybe it would have if it had gone on long enough.


Regretitall posted 10/20/2020 08:44 AM

Hiking, I just wanted to come on to say how sorry I am to see you in this situation. You were such a big help to me when we spoke privately those few times that I wanted to show my support for you now. I wish nothing but the very best for you, no matter what you decide. You're strong. You're resilient. You will get through this, one way or another.

BraveSirRobin posted 10/20/2020 08:56 AM

The way she's acting makes sense for an AP. She thought they had a future. She might have imagined it, or maybe he lied to her in ways that gave her solid reason to believe it. Then Covid hits, and he gets distant but pretends that it's all just circumstance. She hangs in there and waits for the big reunion, and then it never happens. It becomes clear that he's planning to stay with you and drop her, and she realizes she's been played. It's a very typical story.

Compartmentalization is very typical, too, as is trickle truth. You don't have much personal experience with either of these. You always seemed to me to be the "monogamous infidel" type; you couldn't attach to AP without detaching from BH, and vice versa. I was more like TTP, in that I could keep two tracks running simultaneously in my head. Both approaches suck, of course, but they're very different internal thought processes. It would never have occurred to me to leave my BH, even though I was doing things that clearly endangered our future.

I also see myself in the "I was going to come clean, but then I didn't" narrative. That's rewriting, IMO. Also very familiar. I suspect I'm doubly triggered by your story because I feel protective of you and yet recognize myself in your WH. He has a ton of work to do.

hikingout posted 10/20/2020 09:04 AM

Compartmentalization is very typical, too, as is trickle truth. You don't have much personal experience with either of these. You always seemed to me to be the "monogamous infidel" type; you couldn't attach to AP without detaching from BH, and vice versa. I was more like TTP, in that I could keep two tracks running simultaneously in my head. Both approaches suck, of course, but they're very different internal thought processes. It would never have occurred to me to leave my BH, even though I was doing things that clearly endangered our future.

Yes, I feel that is true. I couldn't attach tot he AP without detaching from BH. Just like I couldn't attach to BH until I had time to detach from AP. So, yes, this is all different.

I also see myself in the "I was going to come clean, but then I didn't" narrative. That's rewriting, IMO. Also very familiar. I suspect I'm doubly triggered by your story because I feel protective of you and yet recognize myself in your WH. He has a ton of work to do.

I am sure it is rewriting. I know he had to do a lot of that, and then has to probably come to terms with what that is yet as well. That took me an incredibly long time. These things I expect, and can spot a lot of it. My deepest concerns are with his intentions and his abilities and motivations of discovering himself. To me the easier things that come out of the work are the whys and the realization of the rewriting. Those take a while of course, but they are the tip of the iceburg.

I am glad he is doing therapy. In retrospect, I wish we would have had him do it from the beginning. I will probably go back too pretty soon. I can't think about it yet.

Thumos posted 10/20/2020 09:05 AM

I also see myself in the "I was going to come clean, but then I didn't" narrative. That's rewriting, IMO. Also very familiar.

I got this from my WW also. Itís a convenient line.

I donít think they say it while smirking secretly to themselves and rubbing their hands together maliciously ó but of course itís a lie.

Also ďI had already ended itĒ when I found out. Like that makes screwing another man in my home better somehow. And I was able to nail her down that the only reason she ďended itĒ was because I was so suspicious and she was growing increasingly worried I would find out (which I did). In which case what she was really saying was they were actually just cooling their jets to see if my suspicions would cease.

Also ďI tried to end it but he wouldnít let me.Ē The passivity is notable.

Variations on a theme, like a jazz musician. Whatever improv works in the moment.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:23 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 10/20/2020 09:53 AM

So, I am shaking. The OBS just called me. I wasn't going to answer but then I did. He just told me a whole lot of stuff whether I was ready or not. He threw her out I guess.

Word of advice, get all the way through disclosure before informing. I have to go home from work now and strangle my husband.

MrCleanSlate posted 10/20/2020 10:00 AM

HO,

Change a few details and I could have been your H, so could many other WH's here I bet.

It is sadly such a typical wayward story for him.

Not everyone is able to just blurt out the truth of what they did, and I bet the TT is strong with this one. You have a lot of digging to do.

Stop projecting your experience onto him. He is more like a lot of other waywards who have not done the work yet.


[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 10:02 AM, October 20th (Tuesday)]

Pippin posted 10/20/2020 10:16 AM

I am so sorry about the disclosure. I know you will get through it but that it will be awful and I feel terrible for both of you. You'll turn that manure into fertilizer for other folks, if it's any solace. I fervently hope and pray he uses this as a time to get better and meet you where you want him to be.

TX1995 posted 10/20/2020 10:26 AM

((hikingout)))

I'm so sorry the OBS gave you more than you were ready for.

If I might suggest, take a peek (or have TTP take a peek) at the book Courageous Love by Stefanie Carnes. She just released it this past spring. It's basically a step-by-step guide for couples after betrayal. It has some suggestions for how to do the formal disclosure in writing. He sounds a lot like my WH in that he's logical about things. The book gave my WH a formula for what to include and it made his disclosure very thorough. (He had previously written me a BS disclosure after DDay 1 and then one that included the truth after DDay 2, but this book had him thinking about his behavior and coping from the beginning - way before me. If you are questioning his behavior in the past now, this could be helpful to both of you.

It's supposed to be done with therapist guidance, but in these crazy times, and with how hard a good therapist is to find, it's got some excellent advice. I wish we had it on DDay 1.

Just breathe and take whatever space you need. You don't have to be ready to deal with any of this yet.

pinkpggy posted 10/20/2020 10:33 AM

I was going to respond earlier and say to remember that waywards lie. You are so far removed from the person you were, that its hard to get in that mind set again. Waywards lie to protect themselves. Its going to take him a LONG time to truly be remorseful. Right now he is in self preservation mode. I would not believe a word he said, esp about not seeing her the past 6 months. We know thats not the case.

DevastatedDee posted 10/20/2020 10:42 AM

It's always worse than you think it is. That seems to be universal. You think you know what they did, and then you find out how much more there really is.

I'm afraid that you're going to go through everything that any other BW does regardless of the MH label. You'll wonder if he's done it before. You'll know that he's not telling you the whole truth. You'll be gutted that he could do this while telling you he loved you. So on and so forth. I doubt you're afforded much emotional protection from having been on the other side of this. If you're holding out hope that it will hurt less because of your own infidelity, I'm afraid that's probably not going to be the case. It may be made harder for you because he'll have that ace in the hole he can throw out about you having done it too. If both partners cheating helped the pain any, I'd be begging BSs to become madhatters for their own sake. It doesn't. Pretty sure this didn't heal him from your infidelity and your infidelity isn't going to protect you from the brunt of this. I'm sorry that you're joining us in walking through this nightmare from this side too.

hikingout posted 10/20/2020 11:00 AM

I am sitting here waiting for him.

Dee- I am confused. Have I led you to believe I think I would be spared pain? I have no idea whatís ahead, I have only known for two weeks on Friday. I am mostly walking around like I am on some sort of bad dream.

Pink- he isnít saying he didnít see her he is saying he didnít fuck her since then. . For what itís worth that is what the ons is being told right now too. She is pisssssed. I donít think she is protecting him. She has said a lot of nasty shit.


SadieMae posted 10/20/2020 11:07 AM

This is a difficult thread to respond to, I'm trying to abide by the rules imposed by this forum.

But be careful you cannot take her at her word, either. She will lie and if she's gone bunny-boiler, she could say whatever it takes to cause the most damage. You cannot believe her, especially as it's coming thru the filter of the OBS and the tint his own pain puts on it all.

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