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Cooley that’s part of the problem here I guess I was happy I didn’t know anything was wrong she started working at this new job and that’s when things started changing. I didn’t want anything different I trusted fully I didn’t look into anything. That’s maybe where I went wrong who knows but I know I was happy and didn’t want anything or anyone else I understand that things will never be the same and maybe I should go but I guess I’m not fully ready to let go of what I had and hope to get back to.

Whether it’s a list or you just ask her. She doesn’t know any more than you about how a poly works.
The operator will give you 2-3 factors to get answers to. I guess you want those to be the main issues like did they have sex.
But you can use the run-up to the test to ask more questions, because she doesn’t know what will be on the final exam. The key though is that if she passes on the important factual questions you need to accept that she’s probably truthful on them all.
This is the opportunity to get the answers you need, and the only way you can do that is by asking.

In reality it can only answer clear yes and no factual questions. Like "would you want to drive a blue car" would probably be omitted, whereas the question "was the car you drove blue" would be allowed. However if she truly thought the car was brown she would pass with a "no" even if the car was blue.

Is this typical behavior of someone that wants to minimize? Has offering to take the test no matter what become a tactic in not taking the test?

Well... What do we know based on what she shared. No touching, no kissing, met 2-3 times in private otherwise always in a crowd... the real "inappropriate" stuff is the calls. I’m not minimizing – if this is true then this is at least the beginning of an EA.
The big issue is the "if this is true" factor. That’s where the poly comes to play.

The minimizing? IF she passes and IF you two decide to reconcile then deal with that in MC. It’s an extremely rare WS that shows full, real remorse (as opposed to self-pity remorse) right around d-day.

I want nothing more than to keep my family together.

If that's true, you're setting yourself up for failure, IMO.

My reco is to stop thinking about the poly and start thinking about what you want from your W, if you can get what you want from her, and how to get it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:26 PM, Monday, January 5th]

This is your life. If you two can find a middle ground, if she can see the damage she has caused, if you can forgive, then happiness could happen. Life slams all of us at some time or another. My Dad used to say that looking at the gifts we have should be daily. He reminded us all the time that a man complained he had no shoes until he met a man who had no feet.
Happiness is subjected. If it does not harm another then whatever brings you joy should be what you wish for, and work to get, every day.

I don’t know if any of you are following the Buddhist monks walking from Texas to DC. They are walking for peace. Look on Instagram. I guess, in the long run, we all want our version of peace. I hope the new years brings it to you.

This is your life. If you two can find a middle ground, if she can see the damage she has caused, if you can forgive, then happiness could happen. Life slams all of us at some time or another. My Dad used to say that looking at the gifts we have should be daily. He reminded us all the time that a man complained he had no shoes until he met a man who had no feet.
Happiness is subjected. If it does not harm another then whatever brings you joy should be what you wish for, and work to get, every day.

I don’t know if any of you are following the Buddhist monks walking from Texas to DC. They are walking for peace. Look on Instagram. I guess, in the long run, we all want our version of peace. I hope the new years brings it to you.

As I read other posts and what others have been through it is all the same only difference is the taking back the power I’ve asked her to leave and she won’t. I’ve talked to an attorney before the holidays and was told I can’t make her leave I don’t really know what to do. The poly is in two days and she claims even if she passes I won’t change my mind even though I’ve said time and time again that it’s the whole reason I set it up. She said last night she wasn’t going to do it to which I said that confirms your not being truthful. Then I’m met with the believe what you want we will see if she goes through with it as she still claims to be telling the truth. My therapist feels I’m thinking the worst and her story isn’t completely true but somewhere in between but her therapist tells her I need to figure out how to move on. I feel like she has either told her more than she has told me and telling her she has told me the same when she hasn’t or her therapist doesn’t see through her bs story which I find hard to believe. Again I want to try to reconcile but feel I can’t start that with so many unknowns and the other is she still works there which she knows I can’t stand said she is looking to find another job but I’ve seen no evidence of that and being a nurse I know that they have a ton of jobs available. I’m still waiting to hear from my attorney since the new year on my next steps but I’m almost at a loss.

My therapist feels I’m thinking the worst and her story isn’t completely true but somewhere in between but her therapist tells her I need to figure out how to move on.

If it’s a full on affair, the possibilities of what reality is are not at all constrained to "somewhere in the middle". And anyone saying you just need to move on doesn’t understand one iota of betrayal.

My concern with this poly is her attitude going into it. What this SHOULD be is a sanity check on her truthfullness, which you have every reason to doubt. She should be looking for ways to re-establish trust. From the way she is talking, if she passes I think she will regard it as a "I told you this was nothing" moment and expect it to be the end of it. But if she passes, it’s just a check point to whether you even want to start the hard work of rebuilding the relationship. Do you think she understands that? Do you?

I completely understand that but her on the other hand I do not and I’m still not convinced she will even go to the test. We argued last night and it wasn’t good she says she is tired of going over it again and but like I told her she really has told me nothing and wants me to just accept it as I said that’s the point of the poly.

My therapist feels I’m thinking the worst and her story isn’t completely true but somewhere in between but her therapist tells her I need to figure out how to move on. I feel like she has either told her more than she has told me and telling her she has told me the same when she hasn’t or her therapist doesn’t see through her bs story which I find hard to believe.

Due to human nature that is almost always the case. Your therapist doesn't need to know more of your ws story to be able to tell you this.

The poly is in two days and she claims even if she passes I won’t change my mind even though I’ve said time and time again that it’s the whole reason I set it up. She said last night she wasn’t going to do it to which I said that confirms your not being truthful.

That's why we tell people that agreeing to a poly doesn't mean they are not still lying. Its easy to say yes and hope to avoid taking the test. Its a way to kick the can down the road. Typically you get a parking lot confession or refusal because poly's aren't accurate. That it won't make a difference is somewhat novel but it falls along those same lines.

Sounds like she knows she is going to fail and is trying to manipulate you into canceling the test. You have told her this is what you need to try to move forward and her refusing makes me think there is a lot more to the story. If you cancel the test you will forever Wonder what you don't know and if she refuses to go you will forever wonder what you don't know

The not knowing and guessing will slowly erode you. Not a good way to live. Stick to your guns and simply let her know that if she refuses to go you will respect her choice but then you are going to take concrete steps to protect yourself and make yourself happy and that includes divorce

The not knowing and guessing will slowly erode you. Not a good way to live. Stick to your guns and simply let her know that if she refuses to go you will respect her choice but then you are going to take concrete steps to protect yourself

Excellent advice.

The cheater has the CHOICE to submit to a polygraph exam. But for those that decline, it only cements in the betrayed’s mind that the cheater has something (or many things) to hide.

In this case, I suggest stopping all conversations about the polygraph. If the cheater submits to the test, great. If not, it’s obvious that she plans to keep her mouth shut and not be truthful and forthcoming and willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile.

So then the betrayed has to decide their next step. And then inform the cheater.

As I’ve stated here many times, if you must resort to a polygraph test to get answers, then I question whether Reconciliation is really the right option.

Sorry duplicate

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:00 PM, Wednesday, January 7th]

The poly is in two days and she claims even if she passes I won’t change my mind even though I’ve said time and time again that it’s the whole reason I set it up. She said last night she wasn’t going to do it to which I said that confirms your not being truthful.

I’m still not convinced she will even go to the test. We argued last night and it wasn’t good she says she is tired of going over it again.

Hello WH,

These are the exact warning signs I spoke to you about previously that would confirm there is alot more to the story.

Here is the reality:

If what she is saying was indeed true and she had been falsely accused. She would want you to see that. A polygraph is a quick and easy way for her to prove to you that she is being honest. The only motivation not to do it, would be because it will expose the lies.

Red flags include but are not limited to Starting fights, refusing to go, twisting the story and saying your going to leave anyway so whats the point or any other actions that result in her not going to the test. These are merely tactics to squirm out of you getting the truth and her having to face accountability for it.

Again, if she were being honest and she wants the fighting to end about this, that would be a quick, painless and easy way to stop all of this in its tracks and redeem herself and say, see i told you thats all it was!

As I suspected in my previous posts, based on everything you've said, I dont believe your getting honesty at all.

Other red flags are her getting upset when you look at her phone. Shes trying to condition you. If you look at my phone. I'm going to get upset, so if you dont want me upset, dont look at my phone. Shes also trying to condition you not to talk about it by using the same tactics.

In situations like this, for reconciliation to even have a chance, full transparency is required. You should have her phone code, be able to look at anything you want, anytime you choose without her getting upset. If there's nothing to hide, why would this bother her?

I read through your additional posts and I completely understand your mind is all over the place. This is normal. One minute you wanna leave, the next you're holding on for dear life.

Your nervous system is trying to protect you. You dont feel safe with her as you know your being lied to. When I say safe, its not necessarily about physical safety. Its more about protecting yourself from betrayal. Your nervous system doesnt distinguish, it sees it all as danger. Your in fight or flight mode, thats why its all over the map. One minute you wanna leave to protect yourself, the next you wanna fight against it.

Ultimately, I feel this will come down to the polygraph. Based on everything shared, my opinion is shes going to bail on it one way or another. (I hope im wrong here for your sake, but all signs point that way).

If she doesnt go, that will speak volumes. Regardless of what excuse is used or employed. Dont even pay attention to those excuses, they dont matter or mean anything. Its a smoke and mirror show. All you need to know is, did she go to clear this up or did she not go and she is hiding and lying. Its that simple.

Also, you need to prepare yourself for what you will truly do in each outcome. If she takes it and passes, what happens? If she takes it and fails or doesnt go, what happens?

One point I want to make clear here. Even when everything is going right in reconciliation, this is a long and painful road. Ive been in reconciliation for almost a year and a half with my wife of 12 years. She is now honest, remorseful, transparent and supportive and I still struggle majorly every single day. I couldn't even imagine trying to make it work if that wasnt the case, from my perspective it would be impossible.

This didnt happen overnight however, it took months, there was alot of awful before there was any good. But over the first few weeks I started seeing some changes. But it seemed 2 steps forward, one step back. I had to put my foot down hard and leave it planted. I moved out for a few weeks, we had multiple conversations and trickle truth over and over,then I recovered all the messages and made her face the truth and did a polygraph to ensure I didnt miss anything. Once the truth was fully out in the light is when I really started seeing true remorse. Like a spell had been broken, but at least for me it was quite a process that lasted months just on the discovery phase.

The point im making is, what happens right in this moment, doesnt necessarily mean all hope is lost. It may require some drastic measures on your part for her to see the light and snap out of the haze. Sometimes real consequences that they cant manipulate will help with this. She has to know your serious and that she doesnt have the power to manipulate you. Leaving for a night and coming right back, or messaging your sorry will only work against you.

I feel for you deeply on this, i know firsthand how hard all of this is WH.

Good luck

[This message edited by TheBetrayedHusband at 7:36 PM, Wednesday, January 7th]

What are you trying to do?

Friend – It’s like you aren’t reading the advice offered.
In one sentence you are either looking for an apartment (something YOU control) or demanding she moves out (not in your control).
In the next you say you want to reconcile.
In one you are following through with the test.
In the next, you aren’t.

In one sentence you talk about not altering or impacting the family, in the next you talk about actions that inevitably will impact the family...

I totally agree with your wife that she shouldn’t take the test if it won’t affect anything. Like if she’s taking the test, with the car loaded with boxes for her new apartment, or an expectation to go back to an empty house... then why bother? The only person she needs to convince is you, and the only reason she might need that is if she wants this marriage. Five years from now, nobody will give a hoot for if she "only" cuddled with OM, gave him BJs or nothing happened as to a reason for why you two divorced.

I don’t think the test without YOUR participation won’t do ANY GOOD. Nor do I think it will do any good without the proper preparation. If you aren’t going to have the results affect your decision in any way – then don’t bother.

You need to have asked her the key-questions that bother you, and you need to know her answers. The operator needs to know the questions to build his questions from. You won’t be allowed in the room to witness the procedure.
Imagine this scenario: You ask your wife if she had sex with OM and she says "no". Operator doesn’t know what she has said previously so when he asks her (with you not around) and she answers the same question with a "yes" she passes the poly (assuming the had sex). As has been pointed out the poly measures honesty much more than truth. For you to get anything out of a poly, you need to have your questions and the answers to them, and the operator needs to know what YOUR key issues are, and what answers she’s told you so far.

I want to make three suggestions – three possible strategies:
The worst one – but still better than what you are offering yourself, your wife and your family right now – is that you simply DECIDE to divorce and then act on it. Whether you move out or she isn’t the big issue, since chances are the house will be sold and you both move out eventually. Plus, with the decision and the initial steps it creates you could possibly do an in-house separation.
Only be clear on what D is... It’s like a termination of a contract, and the participants are no longer bound by that contract. You can drink and the fired former spouse has no say, you can paint any room any color without her input. She can date the cute guys at the refinery, and you can’t say a word about it.

When I say this is the "worst" option I’m not saying divorce is worst.
D is a very valid way out of an unhappy marriage, and even if you two were to do your best to reconcile your marriage could end in D anyways. It’s more that I don’t sense this is what you want.

The second suggestion is:
Give yourself time.
I think you could benefit from some professional help to deal with the trauma life has shoved down your throat.
You can tell your wife that for NOW you are focusing on yourself and your health. I don’t want to make too much of your drinking, but friend – why were you drinking 2-4 mixed drinks each day? What were you escaping from? Stress, unhappiness, anxiety? Totally 100% irrespective of your marriage or the future of your marriage – tend to your own happiness and mental state.
Tell her that for the next 3 months the two of you will cohabit – but that until you are capable of resolving your emotions regarding her behavior with OM then the future of the marriage is on hold. For those months you are OK with the marriage being mehhh... You can coexist, be amicable and friendly, do family-stuff... but that is time you will use to rebuild YOUR strength and decide your future.
If she truly wants the marriage, she can show that during this time by being accountable and so on, but she’s also totally free to go date OM, gripe about you to friends and all that. She only has to understand that while you are focusing on your health, you are also evaluating if being around her is healthy for you. Her actions over the next weeks/months will have a lot of input on your decision about your future.

The third suggestion:
Take the test – both of you. She the one that answers the question, you as the one defining what questions you need answered.
Only... BOTH be very clear what happens if she fails. Be equally clear what happens if she passes...
If you do this then you need to have asked her the questions that the operator will build his questions on. To help you here are some questions that the operator can use to construct his questions:
Since you started working at ACME Refinery have you cuddled with OM.
Since started working at ACME Refinery have you kissed OM.
Since started working at ACME Refinery, has OM kissed you.
Have you made out with OM.
Have you given or received oral sex with OM.
Have you intentionally stimulated OM in a sexual way
Have you sexted with OM
Have you shared erotic digital content with OM
Have you had sex with OM
Did you tell other people about your relationship with OM
Did you get encouragement from other people regarding your relationship with OM
Since I learned of the relationship, have you had contact with OM in any way – even professionally
Since I learned of the relationship, have you had contact with OM in any way on any non-work related issue
Are others at work that know of this relationship.
Does OM wife know what was going on

Add whatever you feel a need to get answered. Be clear to YOURSELF what the key issues might be (but don’t let her know). When you talk to the operator let him know what you need to know, give him the list with her yes and no answers and leave the rest to him.

So I talked to the tester on the phone today asking questions to understand this better. I did give my wife a list of questions that I would like answered all questions I’ve asked and she has not answered numerous times or given clearly vague responses to which she said she should be done with tomorrow the test is Friday. I plan on going she on the other hand has now said that she is not because it will make no difference and to believe what I want to believe. The operator of the test said that we are going to sit down and she is going to be told what the questions are before the test and that we have to discuss my interpretation of what I feel that means like did you send inappropriate texts to each other what inappropriate means to me so that she is answering it to my definition I guess. Now as far as the drinking I know I was drinking to much but it really hadn’t gotten as bad as it was until she started her fling and I guess I didn’t know why I was being shut out I asked numerous times and was always told nothing so I made a drink knowing damn well it wasn’t nothing. As soon as D day happened and she told me why she did it I poured out everything and haven’t had a drink since and don’t intend to either way this goes I’ve found I don’t miss it or need it so don’t plan to start again. I’m still trying here if I leave she is threatening me with abandonment of my children but when I ask her to leave she won’t claiming the same thing. I’ve given her the questions she doesn’t answer them says she will do the test then two days before saying she won’t. Bigger she is messing with my head and winning. I have a personal therapist that I’m talking to who sounds a lot like you do so maybe your both right and everything I do is wrong I’m trying to do the right thing but every direction I turn she changes lanes and counters that. I did look at trying to move out but I’m not losing my children because my wife cheated on me was I drinking to much yes but it was after I was home for the evening after taking our son to baseball every day that is the real reason I believe she had an issue is that I was focusing so much on our son and not enough on her.

Bigger I have one more question as I am listening to you all you say you agree she shouldn’t take the test if it will change nothing. To me it would confirm she has been lying so everything that has been going on she has been spinning things around to make me to blame for everything some how everything I try to do she makes me the bad guy I’m the reason she cheated with this guy because I was drinking to much, didn’t matter that she has said she was attracted to him and upset to find out he was in a relationship he didn’t mean anything to her he was just someone to talk to. The paint thing she has now told her friends and therapist I manipulated our son into thinking she wasn’t happy with our daughters color choice so he didn’t like it everything is turned back on me. I am trying to get in touch with my attorney to find out legally what I should do but she is telling everyone basically I’m a monster and I know it’s because she is going to try to take everything from me. She is even saying that I now don’t want her to have friends and want her to do nothing which I’ve never said not once she went to dinner last night with her friend and closed the place then came home I never said don’t you think it’s late or when are you going to be home no. 10 plus hours shopping in a mall with friends never asked how long are you going to be. But somehow I’m the bad guy she is trying to take everything I have by turning everything around on me. Dude I’m losing big time my mind my home my kids she cheats on me and I have to leave this is crazy.

It is wildly unfair, no question. But it is real none the less.

You are describing a woman who is assassinating your character, resentful, and lacking all accountability. Is a passing polygraph going to make you want to try to rebuild a relationship with such a person?

So sorry you are going thru all this.

Friend

The drinking? I want to put my position on this to bed because otherwise it might divert from the real issues:
Not an issue as far as the infidelity is concerned, and you deciding to be sober will in itself neither save the marriage nor prevent your WW from behaving inappropriately. It’s 100% a "you"-issue: if you want to quit drinking and feel better without drinking, then do it for you.
The regular, daily 3-4 self-admitted drinks can indicate several issues – including alcoholism. But it can also be a stress/anxiety reliever, or a means to sleep, or an escape from reality. I would look into your reasons for having had that need for that daily "dosage" and see if there is a root cause that is better dealt with. Like a daily one hour brisk walk or a bi-weekly gym-session might do more than a gin and tonic.

To put my stance into actions: If you reward yourself with a cold beer after mowing your lawn, but only one because some hours later on you need to drive your family to a family-dinner – fine.
If you reward yourself for mowing the lawn with a couple of cold beers while mowing, and one to celebrate after, and have your wife do the driving... Maybe be careful of not making this a pattern. That lawn needs regular mowing!
If you need to down a few cans BEFORE getting out the mower and then have a couple while mowing and then a couple more afterwards, and then maybe a shot while waiting for the family to get ready and still insist on driving... contact AA.

Remain sober – or drink responsibly. Your call and really has nothing to do with the infidelity we are addressing here and now.
Cheers to not mentioning the drinking again!

---

How committed are you to the ultimatum of the poly?
Keep in mind that it’s a terribly weak position to have, to issue an ultimatum and then not follow up with it. It’s the main reasons I tend to avoid using direct ultimatums.
That is a key issue. Her reluctance now is a concern, and it does indicate that there are truths that she is hiding.

You have two options IMHO:
Option 1
Follow up the appointment tomorrow.
Make a couple of things ULTRA-clear today – like right now:
There are only two things that would make divorce inevitable; refusing to take the poly or failing the poly. She has control over both issues – by being truthful in the questions already asked she should pass the poly, and by taking the test.

The KEY issue is trust. If she were to admit now to sex or making out or whatever then it would definitely hurt, but if her admission were to lead to her passing the poly tomorrow then that would mitigate the pain. After all – reality is what reality is. You can work from reality. Just be aware that if you are demanding the truth you need to be ready to handle the truth.

Passing the poly is no guarantee for the success of reconciliation, but it will allow you to progress. You are willing to make a commitment that if she passes, you will give this marriage three months of committed therapy and reconciliation work.
[FWIW – I have a feeling this never went "all the way", but there was probably a lot of sexual inuendo, maybe some ass-grabbing and fondling... sort of "semi-innocent" but still infidelity.]

If she refuses to answer the questions and/or to go to the appointment...

Well... No drama. No screaming and wailing and asking her to leave or looking for an apartment. Instead – actions.
Remember the scenario I used as an example? She refuses the poly is your marriage falling onto that glass tabletop and slitting it’s wrist on a sharp shred. You are now acting based on reality rather than emotion. No matter how much you wish she had agreed to the poly won’t change that she didn’t. You are dealing with realty with reality.

Do a quick google-search for the divorce process in your area. Start asking for recommendations for a good divorce attorney. Within 2-3 days have an appointment with a couple lined up.

Cancel all MC except if its about how best to deal with the transition period.

Open up the discussion with wife on how living arrangements should be during the transition period.

Demand that the kids be told about the impeding divorce this weekend.

Do NOT initiate or enter any discussion on the final settlement in any detail. Like if she insists she keeps the house, don’t argue about it, but rather say something like "there is a process for how this goes. It’s a fair process that should ensure we both get as fair a deal as possible. I don’t know that process, but my attorney does. I intend this to be as fair for both of us as possible, and any decision on the future of the house/cars/savings/debt/mortgage/furniture... will be based on fairness and my attorneys recommendation."

Let stakeholders (family, extended family and friends) know. If asked why, the answer should be discreet "My wife has a friendship with a male coworker that she values more than our marriage". (Never say more than you can back up with known truths, like if you are then asked "is she having an affair" your answer should be something like "At least an emotional one, but she refuses to confirm how far it has gone. What is clear though is that she has prioritized this over being honest with me."

They ask who initiated the decision to divorce: Acknowledge it, but explain that the only other option you had was to accept your wife had a priority above the marriage, and that you don’t share wife. It’s your decision, based on her actions and reactions.

I suggest you don’t talk bad about her. She’s a lovely wife, been a great mother. You would want to work things out. But she has decided to place her affair with OM above you, the family and the marriage. She is entitled to do that, just like you are entitled not to accept a marriage like that. You don’t share your wife.

She tells others that you are a monster, have terrible taste in paint, drink like a fish... Shrug it off. This isn’t a popularity contest. Don’t argue with Hank – husband of June her BFF – that your color scheme was nice. No gain whatsoever. IF this ends in divorce, then a year from now nobody will be bothered by the why. If Hank doesn’t invite you to the yearly garden party, it will be because they invited your ex and don’t want things to be awkward – not because you "lost" in the marital-ethics-and-behavior category.

She tells you that you are a monster, won’t believe the poly or whatever... Standard stock answer is:
Sorry you feel that way. If we were working on the marriage we could deal with that. Since you have prioritized your infidelity above us, there is no need to go there.
And then get out of the confrontational situation.

A key here IMHO is to avoid pointless arguments with her. You have a plan, you are following it through.
She CAN impact your plan. Divorce is not instantaneous. She CAN tell you next week that she would be willing to answer your questions and take the poly. IMHO that should be the only way you should consider slowing down.

Your second option:
Reschedule the poly for a few weeks. Follow my past suggestion of a couple of weeks for self-recovery. Sort-of take a time-out from the marital issues that have been sledgehammering you for the past weeks.

Of the two – well... it’s your call. The first option requires a lot of resolve and I would fully get it if you had a hard time with it. The second gives you some breathing space, but runs the risk of keeping you in a situation you might get used to. It will require that you are both clear that any postponement is temporary, and will eventually require the poly to move on.

Point blank, this woman is showing you her true character. She reminds me of my abusive XW. I am normally partial to reconciliation, but in this case I think you should proceed with the divorce and get away from her as quickly as possible.