SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I like what Inkhulk said ..."tantrum".
She is trying to find some way to maintain control. That is not good.

Hello WH,

If she was being honest with you and wanted to prove herself to you, what logical reason could there ever be for her not wanting you there? The answer, There isnt one.

Personally, I think this is just a ploy to create drama so she doesnt end up going. To create a "well the heck with it then" environment that she can spin in her favor later.

I would call her bluff and just have her go to take it and they'll send you the results. I agree that you want to confirm its actually her that shows up. Alot of times they'll confirm the person's name in the questioning anyways.

The only reason I say to do this, is you need some sort of closure on this. You've gotten alot of good advice from others in this post. But decision making will be easier if you truly know the full depth of what your dealing with here.

If I were you, I would try not to take the bait. Shes trying to create an environment where you escalate. Try to stay calm and dont feed into it. When she gets you upset, she's dominating you by hijacking your emotions and manipulating you. You can show your strength by not allowing that, shut it down calmly or walk away. Show her she cannot effect your emotions.

Even if she does take the test it doesnt sound at all like she is truly invested in reconciliation. I agree with others that you need to focus on yourself and what is best for you. I understand the situation with the children, but if you both are unable to reconcile this and have a healthy relationship, they'd be much better off having two parents that love them that are separated in healthy environments vs. A hostile environment with you trying to stay together. You can still play a huge part in their lives whether your together or not.

Overall, no one is going to look out for you, but yourself in this situation. Dig deep and be your own advocate.

I understand exactly how hard this is and I feel for you deeply here. Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.

[This message edited by TheBetrayedHusband at 7:50 PM, Friday, January 9th]

Well from what I can tell she went and if she sent someone else they took her phone and he check if he said I guess if nothing else I’ll get a piece of mind one way or the other. After the events of the last few days I think we are past staying together but I will know no more wondering and if I messed up just not believing and moving on or if my gut was right.

Well you all were right she did go and didn’t take the test sniffled and couldn’t take deep breath’s so she couldn’t test and it still cost me so guess I got my answers

Seems like you did get your answer. I'm sorry. What did she have to say for herself.

Edit: did she have the sniffles when she left (whenever you last saw her)? How long did she sniffle after she returned home?

[This message edited by Lostinmarriage at 1:56 AM, Saturday, January 10th]

Well she still hasn’t come back to the house she went to dinner with her friend and mom. I said I would appreciate it if you stayed at there place tonight to which her response was I went I tried to take your test and your still going to treat me this way. All I said was I’m not going to argue.

"Trying" is not passing. It's just a different kind of failure. Did you hear from the person

administering the test? What were his impressions?

Good job not arguing.

[This message edited by Lostinmarriage at 2:03 AM, Saturday, January 10th]

All he said was he reviewed the questions with her she was visibly upset and when he went to administer the test told she couldn’t sniffle or breathe in deeply for 30 minutes so she didn’t take the test end of story. She clearly knew how to get out of that’s why she didn’t want me there because she is still lying I just need to move on and try to end this as safely as possible since it’s clear she is trying to take everything from me. I just have to be careful moving forward

She’s acting like a spoiled brat of a child. It’s either her way or forget it.

Now you see exactly who and what you are dealing with. I’ve been down this road and I can tell you from experience she has NO REMORSE or guilt about the affair. She can cry all she wants, those tears and the act she puts on is fake.

I’m proud of you being able to stand up to her by saying you are not going to argue about it. That’s YOU taking control and not allowing her to dictate what your reactions will be.

Honestly I think many of us here at SI knew she wasn’t going to submit to the polygraph test. There are some very predictable behaviors that cheaters do after Dday. No polygraph or counseling is one, minimizing the affair, refusing to be truthful or be completely honest about the details of the affair, etc.

You have stated you want to R with her. And you certainly can choose that but I hope you understand what your future holds. You have a glimpse of your wife’s attitude and mindset. She is expecting you to suck it up and move on. She has been very clear she’s not doing anything to help you heal.

I’m her mind it’s her way or she will make your life miserable.

And she can only make your life miserable if you let her. If you strip her of any power or control over you, then she can TRY to bully you or push you around, but it just won’t work.

As o said in my previous post, STOP TRYING TO TALK TO HER ABOUT ANYTHING REGARDING YOUR MARRIAGE. it’s only going to frustrate you. And continue to allow her to manipulate and lie to you.

The fact that after refusing the polygraph she went out to dinner is a huge tell. She’s not saddened or remorseful or upset or anything. She’s basically celebrating the fact that she didn’t take the test.

And in my book that is a big FU to you.

First wife i totally agree I did want the R more than anything but yesterday proved to me that is not possible. I will have paperwork for her first thing Monday.

I’m sorry it had to come to this. But you deserve better than this.

I was hoping she would pass. That would have fit in best with your hopes.

But she didn’t...

There are a couple of thoughts that went through my head:
The operator sounds like a very capable one. They are trained to spot things that could mislead or fool the poly. He also sounds like he guards his words... Based on how determined she was to go, and her insistence on going alone... I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought she could fool the poly, maybe by taking drugs that alter the "normal" and "expected" biorhythms the polygraph picks up on. The operators are trained to spot these things, and part of the initial phase of the test (the interview phase) goes into that. He evaluates her as not capable of taking the test, but guards his words on the why she isn’t capable. He can’t prove anything, and doesn’t have to. She either passes the pre-test evaluation or not. She didn’t.

Keep in mind that when the operator is telling your wife what questions you want answered (the list) he has (probably) also made it clear that she can give him an answer to that question BEFORE the test, and then the test confirms it. Like "did you have sex with OM" – so far she has told you no. She could tell the operator that yes, she did and then later on pass the poly with a "yes" when the question is asked.
Like I have repeatedly said: The poly measures honesty. That’s all YOU need – honesty.

I also find it disturbing that she has planned a dinner date with friends and mom shortly after what should be clearly the make-or-break moment for the marriage.

I find it naïve how she twists words around: If all you needed was for her to take the test then she could have gone there with no sense of pressure. She could pass or fail -> she’s taken the test. It’s a logical conclusion that the expectation was for her to PASS the test, and that to pass the test she needed to be honest to you.

Unfortunately – all the above pushes me more towards the conclusion that this affair went further than we were hoping.
--

I have always viewed the goal for is to get out of infidelity. The goal isn’t R or D, those are just two tracks that lead us out of infidelity. For quite some time these tracks share the same path, and for some time they run parallel to each other. Going from one to the other is relatively "easy" on the early stages – allowing you to jump between them if there is some debris blocking the other path. The further along you go, the gap widens and the benefit or interest in switching paths wanes.
That polygraph... that was a milestone. It’s the milestone where the first significant split on is on track R and D. Failing to pass the poly is telling you there is no trust, no honesty and therefore no realistic hope for marriage. The path of R is blocked, whereas the path to D is open. If you want out of infidelity, then you need to take the turn along that path.

Worried – the absolute worst thing you can do now is feed drama.
Remember the story I shared about the hurt child with the spouting artery? Enter that mentality. Go about your daily tasks, start gathering your tax returns, banking statements and all that. Don’t go along drama-loaded threads like "I want you to move out" or "I’m looking for an apartment". Don’t go around house all sad and broody. You finally have a plan, you are finally gaining momentum out of infidelity.
Divorce is a process, and it takes time. You can create a list of things that need to be done. Like your kids need to be informed, CLOSE family too, future plans adapted or cancelled. Practical issues.

Your wife? She goes at you then you answer with some basic statements:

The issue isn’t really if you had sex with OM or not, the real issue is your inability to take and pass the poly. That shows there is no trust from you to me, and it also lets me know I can’t trust you. A marriage without trust is dead. If you really wanted this marriage you would be honest, and be willing to validate that.

And

I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage we would have to look into this issue but since we aren’t there isn’t really any need for that.

And

I am too emotionally attached to this family and marriage to talk about details of divorce. I will decide how I want to proceed and what demands I will have once I have consulted my attorney

And in each case – move out of the situation.

For others that butt in:

My wife isn’t being honest about the affair she had at work. I have given her a path to be truthful and how to best verify that, and she hasn’t accepted that path. I can’t build a marriage based on this level of mutual distrust

Other than that friend – spend time with the kids, be mobile, get out of the house.

Want to thank you all for your help support and words of wisdom throughout all of this

Bigger...wonderful counsel. Thanks for your presence and wisdom. 💯

Worried, keep your integrity. Day by day. Live with the virtue you hold as precious and moment by moment, day by day, you will see the fruit of it grow. You will be able to hold your head high.

Hit the gym, focus on your work and kids and other loved ones, seek God. This is a solid plan for success.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 2:25 PM, Saturday, January 10th]

WH,

Im truly sorry to hear that everything panned out this way. I had a very strong feeling this was how it was going to go based on her previous actions, but I was hoping for your sake that it would turn out differently for you.

At this point you have everything you need to know that this was way more severe than described. She also isnt doing any of the right things to try to reconcile.

Focus on yourself and what you need for your healing. Dont listen to any of her excuses or allow her to manipulate you further. She had her chance to prove herself. The only ammo she has now is to try to twist the story. (I tried to do what you wanted, its not my fault they wouldn't let me take the test, etc. )

The reality is, if she were truly being honest, not worried about the outcome and not trying to play the system, they would have had her take the test, period. This series of events shows you crystal clear what her intentions were all along.

Also, tensions are very high right now. Do not allow her to bait you into doing something stupid that could affect your future. Alot of times when they lose it all completely, they'll flip over the game board and let the pieces fly in every direction. Do not get caught up in that.

My suggestion is to keep your distance while your working on your divorce. Remember that every text message and interaction can be used against you. Be the level headed one, stay calm, dont take the bait and go through the process. Dont give her additional ammo to use against you.

Feel free to post more here as your working through this. There are lots of great advice and experience that can help guide you, they've helped me alot so far.

Stay strong WH and try to keep your head up. It does get easier.

I would also deeply urge you to have a recording device on you at all times you’re around her moving forward. There’s been a very non-trivial number of men in your position who then get locked up under false accusations of domestic violence. If you’re concerned about the legality of this, you can always start the recording by saying "For my own safety I am recording now". That said, the number of men who’ve been able to exonerate themselves with a recording played back to the police, but who did not announce they were recording, who were then successfully prosecuted for recording is precisely zero.

I want to give you an inkling of hope for THIS marriage, but you really need to understand how thin this lifeline is and how precarious it is for you to use it.

I mentioned that the paths of R and D run parallel. Well... right now you are on the D path, but you could quite easily step over to the R path IF you believed the immediate obstructions are cleared. Just be aware – and celebrate – that the further you go along the D path the less inclined you will be to switch.

But... Right now she has left you with two options: Accept that you have a marriage that isn’t based on ANY trust and that you will never know the truth or walk alone along the D path. The former option isn’t R – it’s basically a circular path keeping you for eternity in a state of infidelity. I really 100% hope you don’t go there.

What she will do over the next couple of days/weeks is test your conviction that D is your logical option. She’s going to cry, apply the kids, talk to friends, family... try to convince you, others and the dog that you are paranoid. That nothing happened, that she has done everything possible to fix her little "romance". The only thing you can do is ignore all this.
Her sister Agnes or her best friend from college neither have ANY input in if or why your marriage is failing. Your mom or dad, her parents... the kids... none of them have anything to say that would make you accept a marriage without trust.

Your very best bet – and IMHO your only option – is to remain resolute, calm and logical.
Divorce is a process. The decision to divorce is only the first step. We don’t have the knowledge to decide how to proceed. We can decide to follow the law and accept what the law states is fair. We can follow the process. We can – at least temporarily – cohabitate in the same house, but with the limitations of what my decision to divorce implants on our relationship.

You stop trying to find out what happened. It’s not really relevant any more. It’s not really the infidelity that’s caused the affair, but the lack of honesty, lack of trust and lack of will on her behalf to fix things. With your decision to divorce, you basically set her free of expected marital obligations. She can go see OM, be with OM, date OM... whatever she wants. If anything that would be a blessing because it would confirm the correctness of your decision.

However...
There is a slight chance. One that you should not aim for, but allow to happen if it happens. Once she realizes that Agnes can’t impact you, that the crying of the kids doesn’t sway you, that the therapist cant convince you, that her wailing and/or threats aren’t working... Once she realizes that no – she won’t get the house, the pension, full custody and all that. When she realizes that you are SERIOUS... there is a chance that she will finally accept that she needs to be honest.

The key factor here IMHO is how far along the path of D you have gotten, and how far from the path of R you have diverged. This opening is IMHO maybe in the next week or so, but once past that – once you both have attorneys and have had the initial meetings – I think you will have reached a stage of content with your decision.

Maybe the key factor from the above is that your actions NOW are NOT to get her to reconcile, but they MIGHT. You need to understand and be convinced that AS IS your ONLY option is to see through a divorce. If that leads her to change her stance, then that’s a consequence but not the intended result of your present actions.

Hey WH, I've been following your thread and you have been given solidcadvice, better than I could ever provide. I don't post much anymore, mostly just hold space with others, but I thought I'd chime in with my own experience in choosing to D.

I won't go into my backstory as anyone can find my earlier posts, but I will tell you about what I did after I announced my decision to my WW.

I am a guy who lives in his head, so I needed to plan everything out ahead of time. Yes, there was the legal stuff and selling the house, but there was also preparing for a life on my own. 6-12 months before the house sold, I started looking for apartments just to get a lay of the land. I l got a map of the city with bus routes so my kids could get to school, I created multiple spreadsheets so I could budget. I cleaned out a corner of the garage and started packing only what I needed. When I found an apartment, I drew out a scale floorplan and measured what furniture would fit and put those pieces aside. It was like planning an operation, but it gave me focus and hope. It allowed me to look forward rather than spend all my time grieving the loss of family.

Make no mistake, the healing process was difficult and nonlinear, but it was manageable. My kids and I made new memories and created new rituals. Weirdly, everything always seemed to work out somehow (lillies of the field) and we always just barely landed on our feet. No excess, but just enough.

It's been 7+ years now and I am what I would consider as healed as I am ever really going to be. With the dead weight of my WW gone, I've realized that I am much better than her at life and that has allowed me to move forward. I'm building my life again, but most of all, I have peace. I can't express what that means to me. Sometimes, I push myself to remember the despair I felt while in the thick of things. It was heavy and palpable. I swear I could reach out and touch it, pass my hand through it. I look back so I will never forget how far I've come and how good things are.

Im not advocating for either D or R for you, though I think your WW isn't a great candidate for R at this stage, what I am trying to show you is that there isn't all doom and gloom with a D. You can write your new narrative moving forward. You can begin planning various scenarios as a way of making yourself feel better about uncertainty. You can start focusing on the future while you deal with the present.

Good luck with whatever path you choose.