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Reconciliation :
Asking for help, outside perspective, please help me

Topic is Sleeping.
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 HellIsNotHalfFull (original poster member #83534) posted at 4:05 AM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

R is so damn hard, we all know the many reasons why. Part of it is, is our WS really all in?

I have my WW phone cloned (which she knows and agrees to, but perhaps forgot(

She has a friend (another woman and she knows situation and AP) who she sent a text to recently.

Two things bother me. First my WW deleted texts between them which I am sure means they were talking about AP. This friend knows AP very well, and is still in same social circle. It isn’t the first time either of deleting texts, so I know my WW is taking about things about AP she doesn’t want me to see. I was able to catch part of it this time though. She sent a IG quote, basically saying "don’t feel bad because a relationship failed when you tried to save it, and it was destroyed by them
". With my WW saying "I saw this today and I needed to see it" and her friend responded with basically "see it’s all in the signs"

To me, this shows me it is pretty obvious where her mind/heart is. The full context of the A probably isn’t clear, but she betrayed me twice (same AP of course), and the second time was so much worse, which I only found out about after D Day 2 and put the pieces together.

But I am asking for help from the many people here who may have better perspective. Right now, to me it’s very obvious that D is really the only option because it’s clear I am the plan B. Yeah it’s just a stupid IG meme, but so much is said in just a few small sentences.

Me mid 40s BHHer mid 40s WW1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 388   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8807164
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 6:04 AM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

How do you know who she's talking about? Could it be someone other than the AP? Could it be you? Could it be a coworker or a boss, a family member? I suspect that there were any number of times that my fWH felt like our relationship was going to imminently fail, times when he felt sorry for himself, times when he felt like he was making all the effort and I was immovable.

There's an old saying, "You kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince" (or princess, as the case may be). I think the same can be said for a person's mindset when it's in flux. When we're looking for answers, it's only natural that we would occasionally try some on and then find out as we continue to mull that they're a bad fit. In the beginning, my fWH thought that what he was doing was enough, that I was intractable. As time went on, he was better able to see his own stubbornness and how he was holding on to points of view that simply weren't the truth.

I shudder to think at all the garbage my fWH probably shared with his BFF. TBH, there was no way in hell that I wanted to be a fly on the wall for those discussions because I knew I wasn't going to be able to handle a "rough draft" version of his feelings. He needed to put some thought into what he said to me. He'd already hurt me enough. I knew he needed to talk to someone in an unfiltered capacity and I insisted he tell his friend what he'd done, but I didn't want to know the details of their discussions.

Anyway, maybe your WW is still a work in progress. Maybe she's blowing off steam. It sounds like there's possibly room for a misunderstanding here.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7060   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8807170
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 6:40 AM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

WS will lead the R if they want R.

It's hard for the BS to let go and be ready to pull the plug, but that basically has to be the dynamic. Them working their ass of and you saying whether it's actually good enough or not. If you lie when it isn't enough and settle for scraps, you'll get scraps.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 AM, Sunday, September 10th]

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2656   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8807172
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 8:57 AM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

She’s deleting texts and messages?

🚩🚩.

You doubt she’s all in? Her recent behavior shows she has learned nothing about making amends and healing the marriage.

I don’t know what her intentions or feelings are towards you or your marriage. I just know that she’s not transparent or doing the right thing towards you.

Just know you are not required to put up with that. This is NOT reconciliation IMO. This is shady.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:01 AM, Sunday, September 10th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8807176
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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 12:14 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

I'll add a Second to what The1stWife just posted -

There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery.If you’re looking for an adrenaline rush, why not bungee jumping off a bridge span? For an extra thrill, don’t anchor the cord.

posts: 908   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
id 8807184
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 HellIsNotHalfFull (original poster member #83534) posted at 2:34 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

@CT

I appreciate that I could possibly be seeing more than there, but I am almost positive that she was talking about AP. Everything prior to that was deleted, this is just the end of the conversation that she hasn’t deleted yet or forgot about that I caught. We have been married almost 20 years, she only had one BF before me. There is no other relationship besides AP, that I know of at least. If this was about anyone else I definitely don’t think i would be ok with that any other way.

I also normally don’t read anything between her and her girlfriends, as I trust most of them and know that they are friends of the marriage. This one friend I am not so sure about. I don’t know how much she really knew about the A when it was going on, and she is the only one who is still in the same social group with AP. Makes it feel shady. There is a lot that happened during the A that makes me feel like she wanted to leave me, but only didn’t because she’s a SAHM with 5 kids, not because of me.

@ThisIsFine

Yeah, I think you are correct, and I think I am guilty of this too. I am putting in so much but I need to ask myself if I am really ready to pull plug. I am certainly if she breaks NC or another A starts, but i have been in the wrong headspace for R. I appreciate the insight.

@FirstWife

I’ve been reading your posts a lot, and i really respect how you handled your situation. I wish I could have been as badass as you. I definitely think you have the right mindset and approach to R, and I hope it works out for you. I agree it’s a red flag she’s deleting messages, and it’s only with this one friend, and I am certain it’s about AP and it’s because she doesn’t want me to read them. I don’t know if it’s to protect herself or AP, but it’s shady.

Me mid 40s BHHer mid 40s WW1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 388   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8807195
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 2:37 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

She sent a IG quote, basically saying "don’t feel bad because a relationship failed when you tried to save it, and it was destroyed by them
". With my WW saying "I saw this today and I needed to see it" and her friend responded with basically "see it’s all in the signs"

Who is "she"? Your W or her friend? If it’s your W, it’s a very concerning indication of mindset.

It’s possible she’s talking about a friendship and not the AP, but then why delete it?

Hmm. Not good.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1298   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8807196
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 HellIsNotHalfFull (original poster member #83534) posted at 2:52 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

@SacredSoul

My WW sent the quote to her friend, with my WW saying "I saw this today and I needed it "

I don’t think it’s about a friendship, at lest if it was I don’t know who it would be. Other than AP and his group who are all cheaters (who have also been cut out as part of R) I can’t think of anyone else, I’m pretty involved in her social life.

Me mid 40s BHHer mid 40s WW1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 388   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8807198
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:41 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

Why is she still friends with someone who socializes with AP?

She needs to NC that friend.

I don't think you're misinterpreting what you saw. Trust your gut.

What work has she done to become a safe partner?

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:10 PM, Sunday, September 10th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6705   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8807202
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 4:06 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

What work has she done to become a safe partner?

A question worth repeating.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4351   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8807207
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WhiskeyBlues ( member #82662) posted at 5:07 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

HINHF, oh dude, I'm so sorry - it doesn't look great 😞

I initially agreed with ChamomileTea, and that perhaps it was a misinterpretation. I did think maybe she was referring to you. But as others have said, why delete it? I also don't really understand the context - did she feel her relationship with AP "failed", because HE "destroyed" it? That can't be, surely - that's such a sick way of looking at the things, whilst simultaneously trying to R with you!!

I think the deleting of any texts is a red flag in itself. As you know, my WH has been pretty shit with TT, but even a whiff of him deleting messages with anyone, and he's aware that I will literally never even look at him again - let alone carry on the marriage.

I also don't think it's appropriate your WW is still friends with someone who is closely linked with AP. It's too all too close to home. How do you feel about this?

What were your agreements in R? What boundaries are in place? And what is she doing to change/reassure you?

Are you planning on confronting her?

posts: 114   ·   registered: Jan. 3rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8807214
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 10:42 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

Tell her you need to see the deleted messages if you have to continue with R. I am sure the friend hasn’t deleted them, she can send them.

Can you find them in the recently deleted folder ? They should be there for 30 days unless she specifically went and deleted them.

She has not learnt her lessons.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8807248
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1994 ( member #82615) posted at 12:03 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

The fact that you're questioning it is at least in part explained by her not doing enough to earn your trust back. Give her the chance by telling her to recover the texts in your presence and then immediately handing you the phone.

posts: 158   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8807263
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 2:19 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

I’m sorry you are still in limbo regarding commitment and intention from your cheating spouse.

I lingered in limbo and watched my H sit in the fence and basically just inflict more pain and damage. But financially I had to hang in for 90 days to get some money in my name and get my plan B / exit strategy together.

It was brutal. As I am sure you know because you are living with the affairs, the red flags and complete lack of respect from your cheating spouse too.

I became a badass because I had no other choice at dday2. I didn’t have the ability to put one more ounce of effort into cleaning up this mess.

It came down to him or me — and I chose me.

My H was prepared to take everything to the grave. He never expected me to call the OW and he didn’t expect her to spill the beans either.

I never once yelled or raised my voice. I spoke as little as possible and avoided him at all costs. I told him our D terms and where he was going to live and what I expected during our separation. He was blindsided b/c he planned nothing and was not prepared for any of it.

I think the last comment I made "he was free to be with the OW or anyone else he chose" was the proverbial bucket of water. It basically told him "yeah I’m done and I don’t really care what you do next".

When he did something that betrayed me last year (not cheating) I was furious! I kicked him out of the house and two days later I told him I was leaving him and getting my own apartment until I figured out what I was going to do. I think he now knows not to screw around with me and if he cannot honor his word, this marriage is over.

He knows exactly where I stand. And he knows the crap he pulled in the past is no longer tolerated.

It took me 25 years to get there — but I am there!

I think you need to be very direct with your spouse about where you are in the R process and letting her know that you are prepared to D if things don’t change. But if you say it you need to be prepared to back it up.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8807269
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hardyfool ( member #83133) posted at 3:40 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

My XW had a couple of I guess the word is toxic friends. Never liked them, looking back it was my instincts flashing which I ignored.

It is time for this "friend" to go, keeping such people in your life serve no benefit and in fact most likely are a cancer.

Next time for those texts to find the light of day, and determine if you really want the WW in your life. At a minimum your instincts are flashing and you should listen.

I am a big believer in disrupting and confronting people as it removes their ability to control the situation. If you really want to know if your are plan b, well blow up her little world with this friend and you'll know a lot more very quickly.

posts: 139   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2023
id 8807284
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 HellIsNotHalfFull (original poster member #83534) posted at 1:39 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

Thank you to everyone who answered. I have been thinking long and hard about this, I am not really worried about anything anymore. While trying to confront WW, basically she told me that we are reconciled. I guess I have my answer.

Not sure of what is next, but it will be ok.

Me mid 40s BHHer mid 40s WW1 year EA/PA

"Just" a friend.in R, getting by

posts: 388   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8807430
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 10:46 AM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

While trying to confront WW, basically she told me that we are reconciled.

There. problem solved. You may now resume your happy marriage.

HINHF, sorry that she isn't getting it.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4351   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8807454
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 6:47 PM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

HINHF,

Beacuse your WW tells you that you're R'd, she can delete texts and coninue contact with someone who actively supported her A. Wow!

posts: 278   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8807508
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 8:47 PM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

Thank you to everyone who answered. I have been thinking long and hard about this, I am not really worried about anything anymore. While trying to confront WW, basically she told me that we are reconciled. I guess I have my answer.

Is this sarcasm? I’ve read enough of your content for this to feel like someone hacked your account, or in the words of the Crash Test Dummies, this is a very subtle joke. Care to clarify?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2078   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8807531
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 9:53 PM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

This friend was likely a affair cheerleader, she is not a friend of the M and must be NC just like anyone else involved in the A or had knowledge.

Your WW does not decide when your are R'd. There are so many steps being skipped over.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3457   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8807538
Topic is Sleeping.
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