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She used my 33 yr old daughter's phone to trick me into answering. My daughter didn't know she had grabbed her phone.

She begged me not to hang up. To please just have a polite conversation with her. I told her she had just a couple minutes to say her peace.

She asked if there was any way that I could start being okp with being around her. As it stands now I don't go anywhere I know she is going to be including grandkids' birthday parties. I was forced to spend time with her when our daughter was in the hospital dieing and honestly she acted stupid during that time.

I told her I will never purposely be around her. She asked if I'm still that pissed off that she cheated. I told her that she must really think a lot of herself if that's what she thinks. She raised her voice and said, "Well then WHAT?! WHY DO YOU HATE ME SO MUCH?!".

I told her all of her actions during her affair and the aftermath. She said she had no idea what I was talking about. So I listed them to her:

- left our 9 yr old daughter at home by herself (older sister wasn't home that night) while I worked overnight so she could go have sex with her AP. Daughter woke up at 1145pm and freaked out. Called me crying her eyes out that she was scared so I left work early and came home.

- got ready for a night out with her AP in front of me, talking on the phone with him while I was right there, acting like he's a girlfriend, telling "her" I was acting pathetic as she dolled herself up right in front of me to look super hot.

- once I definitively busted her cheating and told her not to come home she took every bit of money from our bank (thousands) leaving me and the girls with literally the $5 minimum needed to keep the accounts open. I had to ask co-workers for money to cover the next 10 days until I got paid and we ate ramen and hot dogs for those 10 days. They also went to school with no lunch money for several of those days. She didn't care when I told her what she was doing to our girls.

- lied to her AP telling him I was calling her to get back together threatening to kick his aas. He came to my house looking for trouble. I tried so hard to get him to leave until he pushed past my daughter to get to me. I wound up breaking his arm. Police got involved. Had it not gone my way I could have had the kids taken away from me or I could have wound up in jail and they would have been forced to stay with her or someome else.

- she hit my oldest in the face with a landline phone making her lip blow up like a fish's and busting her nose open

She was crying at this point. I asked her if she wanted me to continue bc I could have talked all night. She told me she thinks she had blocked all that our of her mind bc she didn't remember any of it until I said it. She was crying and saying please can we just do birthdays together. She really wants this bc my daughter just takes her kids to her house for a couple hours when it's their birthday and then the parties are usually at my house. I told her no, that I didn't want to be around her.

She said that we got along in the hospital last year when Cayce was dieing. Told her I didn't want to talk about Cayce and her hospital stays bc it's a sore topic. She asked why and I reminded her how in 2017 when our daughter had heart surgery how she said she wanted to stay with her. Ever since my daughter was born (with heart disease) I was always the one to stay with her bc mom wouldn't. Said it was too hard on her. Add it all up and by 2017 with my daughter being 25, I had stayed over 500 nights in hospitals with her. After a lot of thinking about it my daughter decided to let her stay with her in the hospital for that stay. She didn't really want her there as she wanted me but she didn't want to hurt her mom's feelings and wanted to give her a chance.

So the surgery happens. We all stay one night bc that's the most critical. Next day she's doing ok so I go home (2 hrs away). Told her I'd be back in a couple days. After 1 night my XWW decides that she can't take it bc Cayce won't let her sleep bc she was having migraines causing her to throw up and rip her staples out of her chest and she was crying too much, so she just left her there alone. I had to work some magic at my workplace and got 2 weeks off and I went and took over. That first night my daughter tells me "Dad, if I wake you tonight bc of the pain or nausea I'm sorry. I'll try my hardest to not be a pain. Just please don't leave me here alone."

Broke. My. Heart.

So after I reminded her of that story she was really bawling. I told her no thank you, that I don't need her in my life at all ever again.

She was crying. Said she was sorry for everything and hung up.

My daughter called me this morning saying that mom tried to kill herself in the early morning hrs by taking a ton of pills (otc painkillers and depression medicine). And now she's asking me to please do birthday parties with mom. I said no that I wouldn't be manipulated like that. So now my daughter is upset with me.

So what do you guys think? Should I cave?

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:47 AM, Sunday, June 4th]

No.

As harsh as this may sound, I would discourage you from caving. This is pure manipulation. Instead, call the police and report her as someone who is a danger to herself. She is clearly in an awful emotional space right now and needs help, but your presence will likely not make that better. Your itemizing her behavior probably contributed to her emotional state, but that's not your fault. Those are facts. You can't give her absolution, and you giving her holidays is probably not the panacea she thinks it will be.
I also want to say how sorry I am about the passing of your daughter. This is not something any parent should endure, much less on top of everything else your family has endured.

[This message edited by 1994 at 4:55 AM, Sunday, June 4th]

NO !

Don't give in to her antics.

[This message edited by WishidleftHer at 4:01 AM, Sunday, June 4th]

This is a doozy! Look at it from your children’s side. She is their mother although a rotten one. All kids want to love, and be loved by, their parents. Let everything settle down and then talk with your daughter. If she only has the bare bones of the story it might be time to open up a little but that can get tricky. Regardless how bad a mother she was your daughter does not want to lose her. It might be too hard for her to hear everything and if she already knows she has managed to get past it. One of the sad things about rotten parents is that it almost never stops their children’s love. It is biological and you can’t interfere with it. If you know absolutely that you never want to see her again then make sure you are not enraged when talking to your daughter. You are still the stable on in the family.
From what I read here it might help to see a therapist with your daughter to get this settled.

Just wanna add...

She's in The hospital. Medical psychiatric authorities are involved. Cops as well.

Great. So years later it’s still all your fault!

Not your circus. Not your monkeys. I’m so sorry GoldenR. She is still the same selfish person she was back then. Leaving her sick dying child alone? There are no words…..

You don’t cave. Your boundary is perfectly reasonable. In fact, look what happened when the boundary was broken. You tell your daughter that you are glad that her mother is alive and receiving help but you have learned the hard way that no good can come from contact with her. You might also gently let her know that her mother is likely trying to manipulate her by bringing her into this.

no

If you have some care for her, see what you and your kids can do to have her involuntarily committed. Honestly, she sounds like she needs it.

As a child of divorced parents I'm going to bring a different perspective.

My dad was a good dad when I was little, then not so much, but I didn't know it.

He was cheating on my mom with multiple women. He drank all our money away. Didn't pay the mortgage so that we lost our home. Once my mom finally left him, he hardly ever paid child support, even though he had a REALLY good job. He did not spend any time with us in our teens as he was too drunk and high and sleeping with too many women.

Terrible dad.

Yet...

Still my dad. I tried desperately for many years to have a relationship with him.

Even though he was truly awful and selfish.

My mom never refused to go to something because he was there. Because of me. She loved me too much to make me agonize about this. He was another story, and I finally washed my hands of him.

My mother is the most amazing person I've ever known. I know now what it must have taken for her to do that. But, she did it for me.

No matter what, whether you do or do not attend events at the same time in the future, your ex certainly knows.....NOW.....exactly how you feel about her. No more misconceptions.

The ball has been squarely in your court about this for a long time. It still is. Those decisions are yours alone to make.

No way.
Pure manipulation on her part. When the drugs wear off she will have a full psuch eval and answer the questions in the way she wants to get what she wants.

I would encourage you to have a frank discussion with your dtr as to your whys once the chaos settles.

It looks like the phone call gave you an opportunity to be heard. If so, I'm happy for you.

I think your best course of action is to do what you need to do to become indifferent to your XW, as difficult as that is. Until you reach indifference, I, to, counsel you to avoid your XW as much as possible.

I'm sorry she tried to kill herself, but she is responsible for her own healing. Who knows? Your willingness to talk may be the catalyst that gets her to actually accept that responsibility.

I would not give in on this. You have to separate yourself from a dangerous toxic person. You did what you had to do when Cayce was in the hospital, she’s being selfish making those encounters about her.

Stay the course and try to explain to your daughter that get togethers just aren’t an option right now.

Let me preface this by saying I now hate your ex wife.

Can that stupid bitch not throw a birthday party at her house as well? Then those kids get 2 parties..which no kid will be upset with.

Fuck her. The entitlement and manipulation is off the charts.

Clearly she failed at being a mother, and now wants to be a grandma. Well, do it on your own time ya freaking POS.

No. I would also consider counseling with your daughter to keep that relationship healthy.

[This message edited by HardKnocks at 10:00 PM, Sunday, June 4th]

Hi Golden,
Your summary of her top egregious acts is absolutely heartbreaking. I hope that it was the cold water in her face she needed to start facing her demons and fixing them. Instead it seems she again tried taking the easy way out — thinking only of herself and not the trauma or pain she inflicted on her children and grandchildren. You attending birthday parties won’t fix this. Respect the boundaries you need, but do aim for complete indifference. And let the professionals treat her mental illness.

And I agree that it is unfortunate she put your daughter in the middle. Maybe find a therapist for a few joint sessions with the daughter to help you both communicate about your needs and her needs and why you respect her right and desire to have a relationship with her mom and your need to no longer be exposed to that toxic mess.

it’s clear you are a stand-up guy and truly devoted dad, and I am so happy your daughters have you in their lives. And again, so sorry about the loss of Cayce.

No I would not cave in to this. Take care of you and I hope that getting that off your chest will help you work toward indifference. Do talk to your daughter about what will work best for YOU moving forward. So very sorry about the loss of Cayce.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:18 PM, Sunday, June 4th]

GoldenR

I said no that I wouldn't be manipulated like that. So now my daughter is upset with me.

Keep telling yourself NO!

Consider (if you haven't) informing daughter about some of the shenanigans your XWW did - like maybe deserting daughter in hospital.

Consider that maybe you should be more quiet regarding XWW when speaking with daughter. I learned a LONG time ago - never get caught up in conversations where two women are ganging up on you.

Some boundaries are going to piss off some folks as enforcing such makes them face tough choices that life bestows on us.

What is your wife's assessment of this phone call - assuming you have shared with her?