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I want to know all the details of WH’s sexual encounters. There were 2 women that he used as booty calls. Sexted with one of them. They were both half my age. I’m obsessed with the details and want to know everything. Is this a bad idea?

Good or bad, it’s totally normal, especially close to DDAY.

Before you get all the details, realize that you can’t unsee them— once you know, they are in your head forever. If you are in IC, it’s a good topic of discussion.

I was of the "know all the details" people— for a couple reasons. 1) I need all the details to make any decision. I’m an engineer, a researcher, and I need data points. 2) His willingness to tell me was critical for me to see if he was all in on R. (He was until he wasn’t and it ended up being false R, but that had nothing to do with his openness).

Other people don’t need all the details or realize the damage from knowing outweighs the benefits for them.

One thing that might help: have him create two timelines. One that is higher level - all the big dates, gifts, whatever. And then a very detailed on with all the nitty gritty stuff. You can start with the higher level one and decide if you want to look at the other.

-BB

SC,

I will vote for knowing the details, otherwise he is lying by omission and maintaining intimacies with these other women to which you are excluded. He should not get to keep secrets with these OW.

From an STD standpoint it is also important to know what he did with what body parts, if he performed analingus he might have caught hepatitis from these women etc.

At the minimum if he complains or argues with your it is not acceptable he should be will to tell everything subject to a polygraph. Tell him this in not negotiable.

It's a personal preference, so you ask for what you need. Some people don't need details, but my brain did. I told my XWH that if he didn't tell me, what I was thinking could possibly be worse. I didn't need details of all the phone calls and texts, but I did want to know certain things. One that really made me mad is that he strung AP along thinking that I was interested in a three-way.

I knew the AP. When I asked for a written timeline, I made one, too. After he read his, I followed up with my more detailed timeline. He said he didn't realize things moved so fast, but I think he was just half-assing it.

The AP was less than a year younger and outweighed me by 100+ pounds.

He didn't cheat because of your age, or anything you did or didn't do. He has a character flaw.

It's up to you. Therapists generally recommend forgoing the sexual details and after many years of study, I tend to agree with that recommendation. Every new detail will create a new trigger, so in some ways, it might not be worth it. That said, for some people, not knowing is intolerable. There's certainly a trauma-based drive which tends to make us feel a strong compulsion toward getting the details. Often enough, even when we've had all our questions answered, we still don't feel like we know everything.

What I do think is absolutely necessary though is the sure and certain knowledge that any question we ask will be answered truthfully. I think it's okay to really take some time to consider our questions and whether the answers will help us in the healing process. In my own experience, I managed to get into my WH's email and found so much more than I bargained for. Not only the horribly juvenile messaging, complete with future-faking and shit-talking their betrayed spouses, but also pictures and even sex videos. These were deeply traumatizing as you can imagine, but just like anything else, a mixed bag. One imagines the sex as fantastic enough to be worth the potential loss of a WS's family dynamic, but guess what? As scarring as it was to witness, the reality was that it was nothing special. Just another boring middle-aged guy humping some mousy troll he met online. Nothing special. Nothing earthshattering. As porn, it wouldn't rate a second glance.

So yeah, it really does end up being up to you. There's no right or wrong answer.

They were both half my age.

I think this might be a better place to put your energy, TBH. How did he end up getting with girls that young? And what does it say about his attitude toward women in general? If that's his attraction, what does it mean to any potential for R. We BS's don't get younger, you know. We continue to age. His 'whys' on this subject could be more revealing than any sexual detail he might provide to you.

((hugs))

I'm so sorry you're in this mental space. I'm pretty new here, so I'm sure there are people much more knowledgeable than I am that have more helpful answers.

But I want to say you're not alone. I didn't sleep for days while obsessively trying to piece together a timeline of what happened and when. I've learned sometimes after trauma from betrayal the brain obsessively tries to reconstruct a timeline because the history they believed to be true has been completely upended. It's not unusual to even verify the same fact multiple times to make that new timeline more secure. Our brains heavily rely on our past experiences to make decisions that will keep us safe. "If I know what happened in the past I can better predict the future, which means I can keep myself safe". Betrayal shows us we didn't have all the information we needed so our brain obsesses to fill all those gaps. I found it comforting to know that's what was happening and I wasn't just going insane.

My WP hasn't been forth coming with details, but from your post history it sounds like yours may be willing to give you the details if you're working toward reconciliation? I think it's important to know all the general whats and whens, but details beyond that seem to be very dependent on what you need personally. Right now, your brain wants every possible detail because it desperately wants to feel safe. However, I think it's worth reflecting on which information you need to know and which information will only make you feel worse than you already do.

So I don't think wanting to know everything is bad, that's your brain wanting to protect you. But diving into the nitty gritty details may hurt more than help.

I'll second that it's a bottomless pit of details. I needed to know everything, and there are now things I wish I could unsee. I read through a file of saved texts and I really really wish there were messages between them that I hadn't read. And even with all the graphic detail that she gave, very reluctantly, that I demanded, I still always feel like I don't know enough. I'm not sure if you feed this monster for knowing that it ever actually gets satiated. So there's a lot I wish I didn't know.

But oddly, I don't think I'd change driving for the details even if I had it to do over again with hindsight being 20/20 and all these triggers I have now. The feeling of not knowing the depravity of what I'm choosing to forgive and try to move forward with would consume me. I also think it depends upon how you're leaning on reconcilliation vs just divorcing. If you're just divorcing, then I wouldn't want to know shit. You cheated, I'm out, that's all I need because I don't need to know just for some curiosity sake. I only need to know to better know the person I'm trying to move forward with and to know what exactly I'm forgiving. But there's no right or wrong answer. Just be prepared to never feel like you have enough once you start feeding this desire for details. You have to create a cutoff where you know "enough". I haven't been able to find that yet and still feel like I'm being lied to, even though that may well not be true. God knows she's told me lots of things I wish I didn't know and that were hard to tell me and that she could've downplayed somehow but chose not to in an effort for the honesty I said I needed.

I'm sorry you're here. Just take your time. Think through your decisions. You don't have to find out tomorrow or the next day on impulse. You can ask for details 3,6,9 months from now if you decide you want them still. As long as you don't know, you can always still find out. Once you know, you can never "unfindout".

If you are considering R you may want to know what you are being asked to forgive. If you are inclined to D then don't bother.

IMO, there are levels and degrees to betrayal and those details could illuminate that. As a man if WS had always said she doesn't like A,B and C...and I then find she joyfully did those things with AP...that would make a difference to me (and I presume many others).

So yeah, I would want to know everything. If these details result in moving to D rather than R....so be it.

I had to know everything. I don’t think that desire started from a healthy place.

I didn’t want my husband or OW to think that they held secrets or had information that I didn’t. Fact is, that even with the in depth forensic analysisI conducted, there are things I’ll never know. Especially getting the story from my husband who isn’t the best at picking up social cues. I had to come to peace with it.

My husband humbled himself to lay bare the sexual details, in some ways that was a good sign.

Early on, I just wanted to exert control over the chaos I was in. Information was power and dang it, I was going to get some of both back! My time would have better sent focusing on myself and my healing.

I don’t regret knowing. I’m pretty sure that even if I could go back in time and upload everything I have learned. I’ll still want to know all the details. It’s just in my nature. Take some time with it and make an informed decision.

Thank you all for the feedback. It's helpful. I like to analyze data and that is driving my "need to know". Dday was 4 weeks ago and I go back and forth between R and D. 20+ yrs married with 2 teens. Seen the STD results. We are in our late 40's and these 2 girls were early 20's. He found them on a dating app. Tells me it was all physical, no emotional attachment. But, I still want to know all the stuff they did. He has answered every single question I have asked without getting angry. I *think* he is telling the truth but I guess I'll never know. I jot down notes every time we talk so I'm piecing together a timeline. I know you all suggested that he write a timeline. I need to ask him to do that.

There is nothing out of the ordinary with you wanting *all* details. How can a process of reconciliation even begin to happen without knowing what you are reconciling over? You have every right to know the details but don't expect to like them. I am in the same position with WS and working basically daily to extract the truth (Which comes in trickles as many have alluded to here). There is something in the cheaters psyche that doesn't allow them to reveal all details at once. Regrettably, there is probably much more to the story than you have heard and you may come to accept that you will never know the full extent of the actions / reasons / what was said / done during the affair.

All in all though, I don't blame you for wanting details. As far as i'm concerned, someone who doesn't make every effort to come completely clean doesn't respect you, and if they don't respect they will never love you so relationship would be finished for me.

I can't say that it's a bad or a good idea for YOU as everyone is different. I will say this: proceed with caution as the one thing you will not be able to do is unsee/unknow things. I dug and dug and dug and found out waaaaay more than my WH ever imagined (I spent a pile of $$ and had his deleted phone recovered) and at first I read just the most sexts ever. They were endless, and disgusting, and pathetic, and sad. There are a few I will never be able to un-remember. Ever. I read her bashing me (we met once 10 years ago long before their A) and him not defending me - he didn't join in but he certainly didn't defend me (I think in all honestly that hurt more).

I give this warning because you don't need any more trauma and it can become pain-shopping, which hurts only you. Also for me at least, reconciling with someone who wrote those things, who did some of the things they did, I mean really going back all in was just impossible - reading that ruined him for me - it was just too gross. I will never look at him the same because of what I read. I will never look at our relationship the same because it was clear I didn't know who I was dealing with. Not really.

So go easy with yourself - some people MUST know everything. I thought I was one of them but after reading some of the stuff I read I decided I had enough. I knew enough that the rest was just piling on more and more pain. You can always see more, but you can't unsee.

I didn't want to know all the details. At first, I just wanted to know if she was still in love with the AP. Turns out even after my discovery she hadn't bothered erasing her chat history, so I got everything since the beginning of their romance, including first kiss, first sex (he was very graphic about it) and each of the 40+ encounters that went after.

Their chat log ranged from March to October, for about 187k words (the equivalent of the whole "Fellowship of the Ring" book by Tolkien, to give you an idea). Thousand of pages about what they were doing, where they were going, what freaking lies she was telling me. Took me 2 full days and a lot of tears to read.

Every therapist I've seen since said I shouldn't have read this. I beg to differ. This chat log made every attempt of lying again or arranging the reality completely impossible for her. She couldn't lie because she knew I knew everything, and she even admitted things that I didn't read in their exchange.

Sure, it was tough, and I believe I still have a lot of triggers (2 years post DDAY) because of the disgusting things I've read. The hardest part wasn't even how he described the things he did with her, what was hard is reading how much she was turned on by him, how much she could be horny (didn't get that during our 20 years together, I think you all know that)

But I'm glad I did read everything. I needed to get the full picture of the woman I was with, so I could decide if I wanted to R or not. Now I know everything, I know how and I know why it happened. I know she isn't the woman she was then, as she did put a lot of work on herself the last two years. But I also know what she's capable of, and trusting her completely will be a very difficult to do.

[This message edited by iamjack at 10:40 AM, Wednesday, January 18th]

I'm ten months out from DDay 1. At first I was desperate for information so I could know what WH had been up to with who and when.

My feelings on this topic have gone back and forth over the months and today I've been pondering whether something I saw on his computer was about a particular female. I could probably get the answer to that but asking a simple question to his mother, but something in me said "do you know what? It really doesn't matter anymore."

The reason for this is that I've decided to divorce him. I know that simply because he cheated and due to some of the messages I saw between him and the 1 AP that's definite (I think there's 2, who knows if there's more?!) that I can never again open myself up to being intimate with him and therefore there's no point continuing our marriage.

For me, if I knew all the details I'd be angrier, more hurt, probably more prone to forcing a nasty divorce upon him rather than a "let's just part ways amicably and share our marital assets 50:50" attitude. For me drawing a line under everything and just moving on is the right thing. If I was still intent on reconciliation I might be asking for details to be 100% sure that nothing the AP could tell me in the future would send me into madness...

I wanted to know about their communication and meet ups. Were there any ILY’s. Protected or unprotected. I did not want a play by play of the sexual details.

He was a stranger, overweight, full grey and suffered ED, he was not her type at all, he played a role in her fantasy. That was enough for me.

I wanted to know everything. And I mean everything. I did not want him to have secrets with another woman. I did not want her to know something I didn't. I didn't want to be blindsided sometime in the future with new information.

I was making myself crazy wanting to know. My brain would not stop. Not knowing caused trauma.

He was awful at telling the truth about his A. He "wanted to protect me" so he lied. and lied. and lied. and lied. Outright and by omission. I was required to figure out as much as I could and then ask questions in just the right way so that he would answer them. It was awful. I even resorted to asking AP questions to see if she would tell me the truth. She had the nerve to say that she didn't even want him, it was just something to do, why would she want to be with a cheater?! In Hindsight... I should have left. So many DDays.

I know a lot now. Most of it reluctantly on his part. A few unprompted admissions about 18 months in.

Now I make myself crazy with knowing. There are so many triggers and my brain doesn't want to turn off. The healing I have to do for my own self is settling the thoughts inside my own head. The thoughts that I was sure I needed to know.

Four years. I don't know that I would want to know less if I could go back in time and advise myself. And there was no way to make him tell me faster. If anything, I would have preferred to know all at once. I cannot be sure what the outcome would have been.

It's trauma either way.

I believe you have all the details to R or D.

* He betrayed his vows to you
* He desired others for emotional\sexual experiences
* Committed untold lies and deceit to pursue the experiences

Read the numerous posters here that learned about the intimate details of their WS affairs and are suffering years later reliving that knowledge.

Strength to you!

Hi SC23,

Thanks so much for reaching out here.

There are SO many layers to this particualr aspect of affair recovery. In my experience, there's one notion that I think is critical to keep before you as you tread this particular minefield. And that's this:

The details/no details dilemma is NO WIN.

The mystery is intolerable...and the details are too.

So, for me, knowing the "game" was rigged from the outset took some pressure off of my decision. It's not like either decision was going to be a slam dunk in either direction. That helped me to be less afraid of doing harm to myself or making some "wrong" move no matter which direction I chose. Because...there was going to be great harm either way.

That being said. there was a fairly comprehensive list of reasonings that my head and heart tag-teamed to offer me fairly quickly that compelled me to go after every detail that could possibly exist. Many of those have been mentioned already in this thread, but mine are as follows:

*F*CK SECRETS THAT'S WHY

OM was not going to be allowed to have intimate knowledge and experiences of and with my wife to keep to himself. This was (for me) a no brainer. I would rather have the worst possible scenario under the sun turn out to be the reality of what I uncovered than to simply leave it with the OM for him to keep alone. It really felt like getting some of my agency back in a weird way to get every possible detail of everything they did, said, experienced together.

* I'm Rocky That Way?

You know that scene in one of the Rocky movies where Rocky, mid fight, just drops his defenses and let's Mr. T just wail on him undefended? With each crushing blow Rocky endures, he gets back up and shouts, "Ain't so bad! C'mon!. Ain't so bad!". I may be a freak this way, but I felt like taking in all of the worst possible things in thier most violent and brutal detail was sort of like that for me. HIT ME WITH YOUR BEST SHOT(S), OM. Hit me with your BEST, f*cking Infidelity! I don't know if it's particularly wise, but I think I wanted to prove something to myself, the OM, and maybe even my WW. That I could take their worst and keep getting back up. I figured the absolute worst outcome was, I would divorce if I couldn't take those shots. However, if I cOULD take them, it was super encouraging to me in regards to hopefulness for a successful reconciliation.

*Infidelity CSI

I think the details are like a crime scene. They give us clues. And those clues speak things that words can't. Things perhaps about motives, intent, depth, scope, and purpose. Yes. murder is murder. There is a bottom line there. Someone has been killed on purpose. However, the details of the scene of the crime give us INFINITELY MORE information ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR crime than just the crime itself. Look. We are adults here. We all know how sex works (like my therapist told me...why do you want to know the details, WH? You know how sex works) Yes, we certailnly all know how the "PLUMBING" of it works. But don't we also all kow that sex is FAR FAR MORE than just the plumbing? Compatible parts and friction are possibly the LEAST of it, no? So, I wanted to "see" how she was with him. Just exactly HOW did MY wife f*ck him? I needed to "see" that in detail, and let those clues speak to me and TELL ME NON VERBAL insights, motivations, purposes, etc. about this crime. About the "criminal" I have to decide whether or not to spend the rest of my life with. I think the things those clues "say" are important. Very important in being as informed as I could about how to proceed. Now...crime scenes are little slices of hell on earth. Visiting one, this one. Changes you. Forever. For me, it was a tragically necessary evil to have to go there to get the information and insight I needed.

*The Boogeyman In The Closet

I just felt that if there was a truth in my life that, IF KNOWN, you know, just might kill me, keep me perpetually wounded, or end my marriage etc...that I PROBABLY SHOULD KNOW IT? That, if the only reason (or even PART of the reason) that I could be "OK" was becuase I just closed my eyes to existent truths and refused to look at them, that it just felt like there was this Boogeyman in the closet of my home (my mind). He was in there, alive and intact, but as long as I never opened the door and saw him, he could'n hurt me. But every time I passed down the hall by that closet, I would know he was in there. ALWAYS a pervading sense of his presence in my home. Even if locked in a closet. And then you start to wonder, what if he somehow gets out on his own? And even if he never does, THE THOUGHT OF A LIVING BREATHING BOOGEYMAN BEING IN A CLOSET IN MY HOME became intolerable. I just refused have him in my home, even locked away. And so, again I reasoned, I let him out and he beats the "s*it out of me..okay...I divorce. But if he doesn't, then...I can get him the f out of my house. I just had to face him. I had to empty that closet. It was just creepy to me to not do it.

Now...all of THAT being said. It's still true. Once you know...you know. And you can't unknow. And knowing IS terrible. I am going on 2 years from my fully detailed D Day. The sexual details (and the belittling/badmouthing) are still where I am fighting for my life. But I would rather be fighting in and with the full truth...than letting the OM keep his secrets, than sitting ringside instead of being in the ring proving to myself (and Infidelity) that I can take their best shots. I'd rather do my fighting knowing what the details of the crime scene told me about this crime...and about the one who perpetrated it on me...than not. And, even if I have to fight some form of him until my dying day, I would rather live with that Boogeyman OUT OF THE CLOSET IN MY HOME than having to live with the creepiness of keeping him there.

I wish you the best...and remember...there is no checkmate win move here....so just play it how you feel it.

WH

I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer to this question. I will say though, if there is a truthful answer that he can give you that ends up being a dealbreaker to you, it already existed. The deal has already been broken. The fact that you now know, doesn't change the fact that it occurred. If you decide that you don't want to know now, that is absolutely your choice, but the details and the truth tends to gnaw at people, and many here will agree that awful, painful, details that are disclosed early are FAR easier to live with and/or forgive/move on from than even small details that trickle out like absolute BOMBS months or even years later. Seriously, I cannot say how damaging trickle-truth is.

One area where I would suggest exercising some caution in is asking for a moment-by-moment play-by-play. You want to know what particular acts took place? The where and the when? Fine. You want to know about the broad-strokes of conversations that took place? Ask away. You want to know what your spouse was thinking/feeling during these times. Cool. All of that information can arguably help you try to understand and process what went on. The same cannot be said when you're asking for a virtual second-by-second reenactment of each sexual encounter. In my view, that's just pain shopping.

I LOVE your post Wounded Healer. So spot on in so many ways.

I'd only add this: the "bogeyman" is different for everyone. Meaning, for some the sexual details are the thing in the closet. For others, it might be something else.

For me the emotional connection or intimacy was the monster in the closet. Did he love her? Did he tell her he loved her? Things like that. I put together a CSI level investigation and let the details tell me what he wouldn't admit.

I thank god every day that the sexual details never much interested me or plagued me. But I can see why they are the bogeyman for many.

OP - what's your bogeyman? What detail or details matter very much to you and why (perhaps looking for your dealbreaker)? I'd suggest those are the questions you ask.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 7:26 PM, Wednesday, January 18th]