SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

WH and I still talk and interact with each other. One such talk was recently about where the root of his cheating resides. I've told him over and over that the act of cheating is a character issue, and at its core is a selfish and self-serving act. No matter how I explain it to him he doesn't seem to get or accept that. He says that he believes the cheating came from a place of pain from problems within our relationship and possible mental illnesses he may be suffering from. Do keep in mind, many of these problems stemmed from him cheating on me the first time rolleyes He says he simply cannot believe it is purely his flawed character that led to his cheating, and that me implying it is makes him feel badly about himself, and like I don't understand his thought processing. Go figure. He whines that when he shares his feelings with me I turn around and tell him they're wrong. I feel compelled to ask, am I being too harsh by saying these things? I'm not trying to say his feelings are wrong, of course they are real because he is feeling them, but they aren't based in REALITY to me, does that make sense?

WH said the same to me during our month of fR. He kept saying I made him feel bad about himself and he didn't feel like he could talk to me about things. I bought that shit hook, line, and sinker and felt like he did what he did at least in part because I wasn't a good wife. I've come to realize this is a cheater's way of reconciling two mutually exclusive ideas: 1.) Cheater is a good person; and 2.) Cheater is a cheater. So, they retcon their own past to make it seem like there's a third options: they are people who were unhappy and made bad decisions out of unhappiness, not shittiness. Their error was not in the actions they took but in the order in which they took the actions (cheating then separating, not separating first).

Also, re: dating, I'm already dipping my toe in. I'm not ready for a relationship at all, but I'm being very honest re: where I am and am hoping to have a nice time and make some friends. I've got my first 'date' tomorrow, very casual, just meeting a new person in a public place to do a fun activity.

@BallofAnxiety

That sounds so fun! I hope you have a wonderful time.

WH and I still talk and interact with each other. One such talk was recently about where the root of his cheating resides. I've told him over and over that the act of cheating is a character issue, and at its core is a selfish and self-serving act. No matter how I explain it to him he doesn't seem to get or accept that. He says that he believes the cheating came from a place of pain from problems within our relationship and possible mental illnesses he may be suffering from. Do keep in mind, many of these problems stemmed from him cheating on me the first time rolleyes He says he simply cannot believe it is purely his flawed character that led to his cheating, and that me implying it is makes him feel badly about himself, and like I don't understand his thought processing. Go figure. He whines that when he shares his feelings with me I turn around and tell him they're wrong. I feel compelled to ask, am I being too harsh by saying these things? I'm not trying to say his feelings are wrong, of course they are real because he is feeling them, but they aren't based in REALITY to me, does that make sense?

You're not being too harsh at all. Your WH is completely devoid of self awareness, which is absolutely infuriating. He accuses you of making him feel like his feelings are wrong while completely discounting how his own actions have contributed to the pain and anger you're feeling in reaction to them. He also doesn't seem to recognize that, by blaming his cheating on factors outside of his control (in particular, problems in your relationship that exist because of his cheating!), he's basically admitting that reconciliation was always doomed. After all, if there's little to nothing he could've done to prevent his cheating in the past, then how can he be faithful to you in the future? His actions certainly reflect that.

I think your takeaway from these interactions is that you're doing the right thing by moving on. The cognitive dissonance that would be required of you to remain in this marriage would inevitably drive you insane. Going forward, I think it's probably best for your emotional and mental health to stop having these postmortems on his cheating and your relationship, as they seem to lead to circular discussions that don't go anywhere. He doesn't get it, he won't get it, and perhaps most importantly, he doesn't seem to see why he should get it.

Your WH is completely devoid of self awareness, which is absolutely infuriating.

As usual, Blue hits the nail on the head! My WH is the same way; in fact, I have said many times throughout the M that he was the least self aware person I had ever met. I now see that for the red flag it is, but I didn't know that before. I guess I thought he would learn to examine himself with maturity, but he never did and here we are.

@WG
Thanks! We had a great time. He was nice, funny, and cute and I think we might get together again. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but it felt really good to be doing something hopeful, moving towards the future, rather than being stuck in the past.

Teensy tiny update.

Nothing much has changed. WH is still going to therapy and meeting with his psychologist. He does seem to be making progress, which is good. I'm very glad for him.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 2:45 AM, Tuesday, April 18th]

Hey everyone. Not much of an update, more like in need of a rant, but posting every now and again helps me stay grounded on this awful ride, and I really appreciate the advice..

STBXWS had been seeing a psychologist (We'll call him Dr. Jim) for some time now. WS had an idea that he may be suffering from a host of mental illnesses based on his actions pre-dday2. And trust me, based on some of the crazy he exhibited before dday2, I would believe some of them.

To my surprise, so far his psych has announced him..mentally healthy. Based on their sessions so far, Dr. Jim says WS actions (including the cheating) are almost all stemming from, get this, ~repression~. Yes, WS has always been very open minded sexually, very high libido, very in to porn since an early age, always liked being flirtatious and talking a little more in depth with people on the topics of sex than I thought was appropriate. When dday 1 happened, ALL of that type of stuff became a complete no-go for me, why wouldn't it? He proved that boundaries were nonexistent to him and he couldn't help from blurring the lines.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 3:17 PM, Monday, February 12th]

Yeah I don't think you belong in those sessions. I don't see how they would help YOU heal at all.

But you know what, maybe the psych is sort of right. If your STBX needs multiple partners and outlets for his sexual expression - he should do just that. And not be married to you. If he identifies as a polyamorous houseplant he should go be that without lying and manipulating another human being.

Don't let the door hit ya....

WG - this SUCKS. But think long-term this IC is doing you a huge favor by revealing a deeper truth about your WS. He can't be monogamous. He can't be in a healthy relationship with you. If he truly believes this deep down, he should be pursuing a relationship that supports it. Even if it's with another low life like OW. They deserve each other.

I highly doubt this IC is putting thoughts in his head but I do think the IC is supporting him in figuring himself out. Turns out, THIS IS WHO HE IS. He will never be the man that you want him to be. He will only be able to suppress himself for so long before he acts out. That's all on him but at least you are finding this out now and not months/years of false R from now.

Your WH now gets a stamp of approval on his cheating certificate. I hope you are not staying for the graduation ceremony.

Thank you all for the support! I know the IC is for him and to help him figure himself out, but some of the things are hard to hear from my perspective. I do try to put my pain aside and, as you all have said, understand that this is revealing things about my WS that further enforce the separation.

I know I'll be okay eventually, I'm okay by myself and I enjoy my own company. WS I do worry about still sometimes. He loathes being alone, and I know this separation will not fully hit him until we're actually living separately, and it will hit badly. No more of the unconditional love, adoration, and company he had over the last decade.

Still trying to work towards that haven of indifference.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 7:19 PM, Wednesday, April 5th]

You can't make him feel anything. If he feels bad and repressed, that's on him. Did you hear this from Dr. Jim or is this being relayed to you by your STBXWH? If this is coming directly from Dr. Jim's mouth to your ears, then I agree with you that something doesn't seem right. If your STBXWH is relaying what Dr. Jim said, then I would wonder if your STBXWH is not being truthful or only giving you a part of the information. (My XWH was REALLY good at twisting words around and only giving partial truth or no truth.)

As for your STBXWH, not your circus, not your monkeys. It's difficult to get there, but he's not going to be your problem and it helps if you start to distance yourself now.

Keep going, this whole process is really hard, especially when you have to see the WH living in the same house. Keep your eyes on the end goal!

As others have said, his feeling repressed or trapped is entirely his problem. He could have said something, or asked for a divorce. The cheating was never the appropriate answer to that, especially as it wasn't his first time.

I know how hard it is to switch off your feelings and move to a genuine place of not being bothered though. It is easy to read others' stories on here and think it's obvious what that person should do - but it is much more difficult when it's you and your own relationship because in the end this is just one aspect of it and you are a caring person.

What a nice racket Dr. Jim has going! He’s getting paid to tell your WS to tell him exactly what he wants to here.

"Nothing is wrong with you, even though your behavior is destroying your relationships. In fact, it’s everyone else who is screwed up and you’re normal. $200, please."

My SA husband was also very into porn. There has been research done on porn exposure at an early age and its effects on behavior and attitudes around sexuality. Many of these effects are not positive. I am currently listening to a podcast about about sex addiction and many of the addicts speak about early porn use and its negative effects on intimacy, their belief systems and behavior around sex and gender. Some of what you describe about your husband (permissive attitude, socially inappropriate sexual content in casual conversations with others, flirtation) has been discussed in the studies as a result of early and/or frequent porn use. My SA husband says that his compulsive porn use caused him to objectify women to the extent that the human part of them was subverted and only the sexual gratification part existed. He says that this caused him to engage in inappropriate flirtation, conversations and acts with others and problems with intimacy. Fantasy trumped reality and having integrity was unimportant, as was empathy or compassion. His compulsive porn use progressed into sexual "fishing" and an affair. Fortunately for him, he was discovered before he acted out on other fantasies. Once he stopped all porn use and participated in therapy with a really good therapist, he was able to see the damage that porn had done to him.

Please note that I am NOT saying that this applies to everyone, but IMHO, people tend to minimize the damage that porn can really do. I have seen it first hand. Use of porn releases dopamine into the body, just like when using drugs, which reinforces the connection between consumption and pleasure. Dr. Patrick Carnes, a very well known authority on SA, says that internet porn is the "crack cocaine of sex addiction". It is causing harmful consequences to people who access it early in life on the regular and also to adults who rely on it too heavily.

I am not here to pass judgement for using porn recreationally. You can do what you want with your life. I am saying that there is more and more reliable information coming out regarding the problems with porn for young kids who engage in it on a consistent basis, which can lead to lifelong issues. I think it is important that people (especially therapists) take its effects seriously. Not everyone who watches porn is a sex addict, but if you read Carnes' work, the probability is much higher for internet porn watchers.

That being said, I will hop off my soap box to opine that your husband's therapist sounds like he is cosigning some concerning behavior. I hope he gets the help he needs.

I am sorry for what you have been through. It is not easy.

Sounds like you are doing well and moving forward. Pat yourself on the back😊