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Newest Member: Beschaedigt

Just Found Out :
Here I am again, for the last time, no third chances

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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 3:42 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

WG, you sound like such a sweet person that I know you will do whatever you can to help him as you move on. I wish I could remember the name of a TED talk but it is a woman therapist from England who is adamant that there is a true sex addiction that’s because she has the patients. She said one young man, who was just such a nice guy, knew he couldn’t ever marry because he did not think he could over Addiction. Isn’t that sad!? I feel so badly for both of you because it sounds like you are genuinely fond of each other but sometimes loving someone is not good for you. It is always going to be in the back of your mind what he’s up to next. I hope he can find the help but it is a long uphill battle.

Take care of yourself.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3604   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8766457
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 WonderingGhost (original poster new member #81060) posted at 3:52 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

Thank you Cooley2here.

It is hard, because we are desperately in love. We've grown up together through our most formative years. He's had his problems, and I've helped him through them. I, too, have had my own set of issues that we've worked through. I am certainly not perfect, nor do I ever claim to be.

But I just don't know what to do. I told him many times during our talks yesterday that I DO still love him, that's what makes this so HARD on me. I DON'T like seeing him in pain.

On the opposite side, besides the problems he had, he really did show me he loved me. He'd drop anything for me, do anything I asked, took care of me in so many ways.

We've been talking this morning and I told him I do believe him when he says he may have some form of mental illness or addiction. He agrees that I don't deserve this and his issues are not my problem. He promises to make every and any sacrifice needed to help me while we go through this..I just don't know how to feel.

I'm trying to put the emotions aside and take the practical steps I've laid out before.

He's repeated many times if I choose to leave him he accepts and understands that. I've told him right now I'm choosing to focus on myself, and part of that is to make myself independent of him as best I can.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 6:09 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

posts: 25   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2022
id 8766459
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:57 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

He cheated before. You told him he had one more chance. And he did it again. But, now, NOW, he's willing to do anything and everything to get you to stay. Odd, because he had that power. All he had to do was remain faithful. And he didn't do that. So,no, he's not willing to do anything and everything.

He's throwing himself a huge pity party. Its all about what he's lost,how he feels. I've not read anything about how he's hurt you..just how he's hurt himself.

He keeps saying he has an addiction,yet there's been no diagnosis. As he was cheating,he didn't think he had an addiction. He was fine with cheating. He didn't look for any sort of help at all.

He would still be cheating right now,happily.

The only difference is you now know. That's it. Suddenly he is sorry. Suddenly he's sick. Suddenly he has an addiction. But, just a few days ago, he was just fine.

He's doing his best to manipulate you,to get the outcome he desires. Don't fall for it.

You're "best friends who desperately love each other." So he knew exactly what he was risking when he decided to cheat again. He thought it was worth the risk. He was fine with it. Now that you know..he's sorry.

He wasn't sorry,when you didn't know.

posts: 4848   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8766479
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doublerainbow ( new member #82239) posted at 7:08 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

I’m so sorry you are here and echo what everyone else has advised above.

From personal experience, in terms of when to tell someone, I would say asap. Tonight is not too soon, hell last year was not too soon. Especially given you are firm in your decision to separate.

As soon as you tell someone, it will cement that this is reality, you will find it much easier to do all the other stuff that starts you on the road to recovery and also make it much easier for you to not continuing to fall for his manipulation and tricks. I told a close friend an hour after WH got busted and will always be grateful I did.

I wish you healing and peace, keep posting.

Me: BS (38)
Him: WS (45)
D-Day (Jan 2022), going through D.
1 DD age 4.
Just want to know there’s light at the end of this mess.

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2022   ·   location: West Coast
id 8766481
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 7:11 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

WonderingGhost,

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position again. You deserve so much better. I know how badly you wanted him to be better this time and for him to have learned from his previous transgressions.

I hear a lot of "me me me" from him. "I'm such a screw up! I have a problem! I need you. I don't know what I'll do without you." What I don't hear from him is remorse or empathy for what he's put (and continues to put) YOU through.

What he has proved to you again and again is that he doesn't have your best interest at heart, only his own. Stop taking care of him, start taking care of yourself.

I know it's not easy to extricate yourself from someone whose life is so intertwined with yours. Please keep posting, we will be here for you through it.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 1023   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8766482
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 WonderingGhost (original poster new member #81060) posted at 7:16 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

@HellFire & @emergent8: Not that this is praise, but he has been going on about the pain he's caused me, very much so, I assure you. He's focused more on the pain I've been dealt than what he is feeling. He's assured me he knows he'll never understand or comprehend the pain he's put me through.

It's hard to describe. He's known he's had some weird issues in the past, and I've known too. He said while he was engaging in this EA the second time, he knew he had a problem, kind of like a switch flipped. The first EA he was mostly blind to the deeper issues, he knew he was a monster and an awful person, but it wasn't until this second incident that he apparently had this aha moment of, "Something is wrong with me, I'm ruining my relationship."

He is waiting to talk to a professional.

@doublerainbow: Regardless of what I do, I currently think I will tell our friends. I've waited a day because I need time to regroup. I don't want the way in which I break it to them to be on the terms of my pain. I guess I just want to feel a little bit more in control when I do it.

I've noticed a couple of people saying if I'm "Firm in the decision to leave" to tell the friends and family. Is it typical to keep the infidelity a secret if you choose to R, even if it's a second, third, fourth time?

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 6:10 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

posts: 25   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2022
id 8766483
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 8:20 PM on Wednesday, November 23rd, 2022

WG, my H cheated when we were you parents. He also made a pass at one of my friends. No one, including my children, have any idea about any of it. He has done a lot of growing up and the kids love him even though he is very moody. I have never wanted to change the dynamics in our lives.

Once you tell no one will ever forget it. If you feel it is your right to tell whomever you want then ignore this. Don’t give details. That is going to harm him and it won’t heal you.

Always be kind. It keeps you on the right path through life. He does not sound like a selfish jerk. He sounds like a person whose childhood/ youth got screwed up and he, and YOU, are paying the price. Sadly I don’t think he can stop on his own. He needs long, intensive, therapy.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3604   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8766489
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 WonderingGhost (original poster new member #81060) posted at 12:55 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

Good morning.

Things are still feeling so dream like. Obviously since it's only been 2 days. I've been emotionally detached and only focused on me, trying to make sure I eat, hydrate, sleep.

WH has still been dealing with waves of hysteria over his actions and the pain he's caused me. I've been given more speeches about how amazing, wonderful, perfect I am. How my love has always been what he needed, and how it's helped him transform into who he is now compared to who he was as a teenager - Which is true, he had a less than perfect childhood. He stops to say he knows none of these words matter to me, and he's not expecting them to change anything, but that they're true.

Yesterday I ended up telling him that if he wanted to actually make a change for HIM and not just for me, then he needs to take initiative for once and do something. Read the literature, study the problem, work to fix himself, and do everything he can to make all of this crap easier on me as I deal with it and try to pick up the pieces of my life. He agreed without question, and he thanked me, saying that the fact I don't believe he will do it is what he needed to hear.

After our talk he got rid of all of his alcohol without being prompted, did a handful of chores that he's been ignoring, and deleted his porn viewing accounts.

I'm still moving forward with making myself as independent from him as possible, and he knows that, he only hopes that I'll notice him doing the work in the meantime.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 6:11 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

posts: 25   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2022
id 8766560
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 1:15 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

I hope he pursues the help that he needs.

He agreed without question, and he thanked me, saying that the fact I don't believe he will do it is what he needed to hear.

Hopefully, the above WON'T be his main motivation. If so, he is bound to fail. There is only ONE primary reason that he should try to change.....because he wants to do that for himself.....first and foremost. No other reason is more important. As a matter of fact, it would be a form of manipulation instead of the want(s) for authentic change.

This is regardless of a medical Dx. He may simply be a person who has had poor boundaries for so long that they are hardwired, and need to be rerouted. Either way, it is only he who can make changes. Let's hope he has the will to do so.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married almost 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4122   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8766562
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 WonderingGhost (original poster new member #81060) posted at 1:21 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

@jb3199: I agree, he did say that the fact I can't believe him when he says he'll change means he has to do it for him. He can't do it for me, because right now I don't believe him.

We haven't told anyone yet, but he's considering reaching out to his best and oldest friend for support as he goes through things and tries to become healthy, because I've told him I can't be that support for him right now

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 2:18 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

posts: 25   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2022
id 8766563
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 2:06 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

After our talk he got rid of all of his alcohol without being prompted, did a handful of chores that he's been ignoring, and deleted his porn viewing accounts.

I am not trying to diminish his actions. But to me, this is "get out of the doghouse" behavior.

He’s doing what he thinks YOU want.

The true test will be if he goes to counseling or joins a support group etc. and really delves into his issues and works to fix them. This doesn’t take 3 minutes or 3 months. It’s a long haul process.

And you are right - he needs to do this for himself. Not for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:07 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12781   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8766572
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BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 3:31 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

he's considering reaching out to his best and oldest friend for support as he goes through things and tries to become healthy, because I've told him I can't be that support for him right now

That's great. That is what he should do, and you should hold firm that you can't be his support system. You need to care for you.

However, you need a support system as well. Do tell people in your life that will support and not judge.

We are trying to R, yet I told some close coworkers almost immediately because I was afraid I'd break down at work. My family and our kids now know as well. It's been nice to not expend extra energy hiding this huge part of my emotional life keeping this giant secret. Betrayal impacts you like an asteroid hit. It's freeing to acknowledge that.

You have also said how much the two of you love each other.

I had to finally acknowledge that I will always love my H, but I cannot stay in a relationship with him if I don't feel safe. That's a crying shame, yet true.

No matter how many tears are shed, compliments given, promises made, love has to be an action word.
If my partner is choosing to not act in loving ways or if they are not capable of acting in loving ways, then the relationship cannot stand. When they are cheating, they are serving their own needs above my needs or the needs of the relationship and that's not loving.

"Don't you love it, don't you love it?No, I ain't happy yet.But I'm way less sad."[Credit to group AJR]

Me=BW; fWH=online affairs with 3 APs over 2.5-3 yrsBoth in IC & MCMarried 31 yrs now2 kids-both in HSAttempting R

posts: 286   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8766583
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Beachgirl73 ( new member #74764) posted at 5:21 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

I’m sorry you’re going the this.

You’ve mentioned what a great deal your apartment is. Have you said why you can’t keep the apartment and let him move out?

posts: 42   ·   registered: Jul. 3rd, 2020
id 8766591
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InRetrospect ( member #18641) posted at 5:59 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

So hard, because it's so fresh. But two days do not a change make, and he has a very hard slog ahead of him if he is really going to change. Good for you to not trust it, and keep yourself safe emotionally.

Especially hard around the holidays, I might add. This is the time of year my first D-Day occurred, and I still get twinges 15 years later. So now this is a fact of my life, and of yours. You are not alone.

What is it with men?

posts: 296   ·   registered: Mar. 15th, 2008   ·   location: California
id 8766595
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 WonderingGhost (original poster new member #81060) posted at 6:05 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

Thank you all, still taking it one day at a time.

@Beachgirl73: I don't really know, honestly. It's only been 2 days so I don't even know what I want in terms of splitting things. I'm trying to do what I can one step at a time to make myself more independent.

@InRetrospect: Absolutely, and I've said the same thing to him. This isn't a few months or a few years type thing, this is a lifelong process that he'll have to undertake in order to get better.

Yeeah..Both of my DDays so far have been in November, so..Not a good month for me laugh

posts: 25   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2022
id 8766598
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justanotherperson ( new member #82218) posted at 7:24 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

Sorry you need to be here.

He says he loves you. If he did he would not let himself get to the situation he got himself into - specially second time after knowing the hurt he put upon you on the first time.

He is playing you. He may not even really notice he is doing that because that is second nature to him. It is something he has got within himself that he needs to want to address to fix. That is who he IS at this point in time. And this is not something one can fix in a couple of days. It takes time to understand the deep interactions of thought that make people behave the way he does - remember - for the second time (at least that you know of, because you caught him on the act).

Also remember he did not think of you when he disrespected you in that manner when using his time to relate to the OP, to present her with his time, his feelings and his emotions when he should be using that precious time with you. Life is to damn short for that shitshow of a mess I tell you that.

Best thing for you to do:

Detach. So that you may have a better understanding of things and of what you want to really do going forward. You can't do that with him always present confusing your head up with his "things", with his crocodile tears.

This will also allow for him to get is shit together if he really wants to fix himself. At the moment he wants to eat the cake (OP) and keep the cake (you) and continue to get a hold on all the confort the present situation allows him.

Remember: YOU ARE the PRIZE. And his prize gave him a CHANCE to CHANGE the first time around. He screwed that up. Now it is time for him to do what needs to be done so he can really be a safe partner. And he really needs to step up to aknowledge the actions he undertook.

You know what? Maybe you two may get back together somewhere along the way. But it is my opinion that if you allow this to "pass" once again, you will have to be ready for yet another DDay sometime in the future. The issues here are far deeper than what you may think. And they need to be correctly adressed.

I do believe in true LOVE. But it must come from pure trust and respect. With a set of boundaries pretty well stablished upon both parties. You do not have anything close to that at the moment - unfortunately.

One way or another you will be ok.

Take care of YOU. Do not engage in intimacy with him. Stay true to yourself and in the future you will see things clearer. But you do need time. Two days is NOTHING when it comes to these issues.

You are still very young. You deserve to live a life with someone by your side who really is trustworthy.

All the best.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 7:36 PM, Thursday, November 24th]

"It can't rain all the time."

posts: 50   ·   registered: Oct. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: O´Porto
id 8766607
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VezfromTaz ( member #80815) posted at 8:26 PM on Thursday, November 24th, 2022

He has some issues with black and white thinking ~ it is not possible that you are all perfect, all wonderful etc.
You said that yourself. I hope he isnt hoovering you as he has some pretty serious character flaws if he is.
If he wants to love you, all of you, not just the cardboard cutout version, he needs to grow up and learn who you really are as a person, what you stand for. Do you really know this yourself?
Anyway you get to decide how long this goes on for.
Life is a wonderful and sometimes cruel journey.
All the best.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 1st, 2022
id 8766609
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 2:04 PM on Saturday, November 26th, 2022

What are you going to do the third time you catch him?

I know you said there won’t be a third time, but it seems like his pity party is starting to have its desired result. He seems to have whittled down your resolve to the point that you’re assuming the best of his intentions and are giving him more credit for the things he is saying and the little things he’s doing NOW than his past behavior and deceptions deserve.

So if you decide to give him a third chance, you need to think about what’s going to be different now than when you gave him a second chance. And once he knows he can get away with it a second time, he will have good reason to believe that you will never leave him.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:10 PM, Saturday, November 26th]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 946   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8766780
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