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Wife and I had been married 9 years, together for 11, have 1 kid together. She asked for separation, as she said she no longer loved me anymore and I agreed to it. During separation, she was not open to counselling, and it looked like divorce was on the table. There were some strange events that alerted me that she may be cheating on me, and I confronted her about it, but she denied it each time. We had a prior agreement that until we decided on divorce, we wouldn't see other people. A few days ago, I uncovered indisputable evidence that she was cheating, and I confronted her about it. She still denied everything and lied until I pulled out the evidence. She finally admitted to cheating.

We had a long talk about it, but what saddened me the most was that even after getting caught, she was still lying to me. She covered up and hid parts of the story, as her explanation had inconsistencies. Her story changes when I discuss the inconsistencies, for example from meeting someone new for something purely physical, to meeting someone she has known for awhile and it is emotional. The length of the A also changes, from something that happened twice, to new evidence that it predated that. She said sorry but also shifted the blame of why she cheated to her being unhappy in the marriage, my past failures etc. The only silver lining is that she has now agreed to go to counselling.

For context, my WS is on the narcissistic spectrum and I am more of an empath. She is unable to recognize when she is at fault, and generally lacks empathy. This made me think that she is not remorseful for her actions, as she may not realize she may be in the wrong in the first place. I'm trying to figure out if there is any chance I should take her back. I don't know if counselling will help her to realize her actions and have any shot of making her remorseful, but I fear that it is slim at best. I am not sure if she is really a narcissist or because she is an ESTJ, but I'm wondering if the counselling is even worth it, or if we should skip it and head to divorce.

[This message edited by ff56k2 at 12:02 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

Although there are on psychiatrist and psychologist who can diagnose people sometimes I think it’s better to leave out the terms and look at the behavior overall. What kind of person is she generally. Does she get along with her extended family? Does she have friends? Is she a good employee? How has she treated your child which is the most important behavior you need to look at. Also, you need to look at what your marriage was like without rose colored glasses. Are you generally happy with her or not? And you need to be very honest with yourself. If she is a true narcissist you cannot have been happy with her because they are so self-centered. You say you are an empath that just means you understand the pain in other people . That’s pretty nice and normal behavior. You put yourself in other people shoes and walk around and you can sympathize with them and empathize with them. She can’t do that and since she can’t she’s always going to have the power in the family and you are not. It’s just that simple.

Nothing will make a.WS feel remorse. They gave to get it,and feel it,on their own.

That she has said she doesn't love you,is still lying, and you say she lacks the ability to feel empathy, all point to an inability to reconcile. A WS who wants reconciliation must do the heavy lifting in the beginning. They must be remorseful. They must be honest,and transparent. They must do the work on themselves to become a safe partner. They need to have empathy. Otherwise, it becomes the BS dragging them through attempted reconciliation, and,in the end, the BS is more traumatized.

The way you describe her,it does not sound like she isca high value partner. My EXWW displayed some narc behaviors though I think she is on the autistic spectrum. Coupled wth ADD the marriage was very one sided. Ironically, even though my emotional needs were never met, I was the one who stayed faithful. My advice. Cut and run. Find peace either alone or with a worthy partner. It's soul crushing being with an emotional vampire.

Thanks for the replies. It's true I'm not a psychiatrist so I will just highlight her behaviors to give more context. Some of her bad traits are that she has a short fuse, and always issues blame externally. If she kicked the door by accident she would blame the door being there instead of herself. She is an excellent employee, she gives 110% at work although it stresses her like crazy and that would trickle down into the way she treats me or my child. She doesn't have many friends, she has only 1 close friend as her old group had a bunch of drama that split the group. She does not get along with my extended family at all, she hates having to see them although they have never mistreated her. The dynamic sometimes works because I am a giver, she has something that she wants and I will help her achieve it. For example, if she wants to buy a new phone I will do all the research to find the best phone to buy and the best place to buy it. I have no problems helping her achieve her goals, the problem begins when her goals will become our goals.

Recently she wanted to move to a very expensive part of town, and she said I was holding her back from achieving our goal because I made less than her, but I had no participation in setting that goal. I thought the area was overpriced and I didn't even like the area other than it being an expensive neighborhood, but my views weren't considered. She told me she lost respect for me because she earned more than I did, and she has some weird system where a person's value corelates to how much they earn. If you don't earn as much, you are less talented or less hardworking. I run a startup and I took a pay cut for my equity, but somehow my shares don't count in her system.

In her mind she is doing all the chores, all the errands, all the childcare when in reality it is me that sends my kid to school everyday and picks him up. It is me that feeds the kid every night. It is me that plays with him. We have a maid that cleans the house on weekends and does the laundry, so when I ask her to break down the household chores that she does, there isn't much.

She acts like I don't know what her contribution is like but she left me for 3 week conferences where I had to solo parent and I definitely know what it's like to do all those things, and it honestly isn't that much more than what I do on a daily basis. She claimed to the therapist that I was lazy because I slept in till 1 in the afternoon, conveniently leaving out that I had worked until 6am the prior night. During separation, we took turns having the kid and I found myself with so much new time that I haven't had for years, and I was able to reconnect with friends, do personal activities and actually have 8 hours of sleep. On the other hand, she struggled with the new schedule as her time shrunk which further vindicated my thoughts on who was actually doing what. I realized that I was being gas lighted all these years.

She complained about mental load when I was also running a full time job and I've only been getting 6 hours of sleep a day for years. I'm not comparing who was doing more, I'm sure it is hard on her too, but she can't acknowledge that other people also have mental load or stress, she can only see her own pain. It sounds really bad....but I still love her. The only thing is I know there is no chance unless we can start to rebuild trust, and that can't happen until she realizes what she's done and acknowledges it. I don't know if she will be able to see it naturally, I'm hoping that therapy can help, but I have no idea if it will make a difference.

[This message edited by ff56k2 at 3:32 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

So she treats you bad. Has no empathy. Minimizes your enormous contributions to the family. Gaslights you. You do the majority of the parenting. Cheats on you. Abuses you(infidelity is abuse,in addition to the emotional abuse). Says she doesn't love you. Isn't a good mom. But you love her.

What,exactly, do you love about her?

Some people I've been talking to for support have asked me that...and I guess in some way I do love that she gives me more drive. If I was alone, I think I would be easily content, I don't need very much. But she has given me the drive to push for more, so in a way I have become better for that. Conversation wise she's my intellectual partner, although that has gone downhill in recent years because she's constantly too tired every time she comes home from work. She can be caring and sweet on occasion, and things before having a kid was much better, because there were less things to nitpick. I could handle it if I had to learn to do 10 things her way, but when a kid comes along there are 100 things to make decisions on and we have different standards.

I think I have difficulty answering this on the spot...so maybe I am in love with an image of my wife that may no longer exist. I'm still struggling to come to terms with it....but I think I at least owe it to my marriage and my son to explore the options with counselling before calling it quits. I guess I am exploring a last ditch effort to instill some sort of empathy or self awareness in her, but I know deep down that the chances are slim to none.

[This message edited by ff56k2 at 3:46 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

I'm sorry that you had to find us, your WW is not even remorseful and told you she doesn't love you, it even sounds like you're pushing her to counseling. A successful R after infidelity takes years with a fully remorseful WS doing all the heavy lifting and necessary work to restore the destroyed M, you simply don't have that. File for D, (D typically takes a long time and you can always stop it if she comes around) and expose her with all family and close friends without warning, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, and if so just let the D process run its course and get out of infidelity, don't forget to get tested for STDs/STIs.

Just curious, do you know exactly who the AP is ? Do you know if he makes more money than you? have you informed OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse/GF) if any ? how did you get your evidence (could help others) ?

[This message edited by Buster123 at 5:12 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

Let’s just assume she’s your typical selfish spoiled person who is materialistic (based on your description ).

So you painted an accurate picture of your wife for us.

But here’s the thing. You may decide at some point that the affair was a dealbreaker. It is possible that six months from now when she’s not doing anything to help you heal or make amends or repair the damage - that is just not acceptable to you.

At that point you may be the one to decide to D her. Not because she cheated. But because she is not doing anything to repair the damage.

Counseling could help if she’s all in. But if she’s going b/c she’s doing it to appease you or b/c she’s just going through the motions, I doubt there will be any success. However if she suddenly changes and decides to be all in and out you and the marriage first, then there is hope.

I hope this works out for you. I suggest you get your own counselor. And start standing your ground with her. Don’t buy into the expensive neighborhood just to make her happy. If she’s that kind of wannabe that puts importance on that stuff, please recognize the type of person you are dealing with.

There are times I made more $ than my H and times he made more than me. It never mattered to us. I feel sorry for you that money is her excuse to cheat. You sound like a hardworking guy and a great dad. I’m sorry that doesn’t mean more to her.

She said sorry but also shifted the blame of why she cheated to her being unhappy in the marriage, my past failures etc. The only silver lining is that she has now agreed to go to counselling.

For context, my WS is on the narcissistic spectrum and I am more of an empath. She is unable to recognize when she is at fault, and generally lacks empathy. This made me think that she is not remorseful for her actions, as she may not realize she may be in the wrong in the first place.

Sorry you're here man, really.

This is totally identical to my situation with my WW.She's never been wrong in her life...Yes, your wife deep down realizes she is wrong, but her narcissism won't allow her to say that. They lose control that way. Sadly, as much as I wanted there to be some hope in my situation as you do, I don't think there is any. You can't make people change and unfortunately narcissism generally can't be fixed, not without intense individaul therapy that literally takes years. The first step of which is acknowledging you have something to work on. Even if she did go to counseling it can be very hard to break the web of lies; it just builds on itself after awhile and mine lies when there is no reason to do so. It's going to be a brutal uphill battle.

I am not sure if she is really a narcissist or because she is an ESTJ, but I'm wondering if the counselling is even worth it, or if we should skip it and head to divorce.

FF56k2, You could have been describing my ex. Down to being seen as an overachiever at work and only having a single friend at a time. I was thoroughly crushed by her asking for separation. I told her that if she moved out we were done (personal view on that). Doubled down to fix what she claimed was wrong and we stumbled on for nine months. At that point I knew I did everything I could, and we quickly divorced. My mantra at that point was one person can love enough, believe enough, and try enough for both. It wasn't until a year after the D that she married her BFF who I introduced her to. By the time I started dating again I saw that her BFF did me a major favor. I'm happily married now and having someone working just as hard as I illustrated just how unbalanced my first marriage was.
.

During separation, we took turns having the kid and I found myself with so much new time that I haven't had for years, and I was able to reconnect with friends, do personal activities and actually have 8 hours of sleep. On the other hand, she struggled with the new schedule as her time shrunk which further vindicated my thoughts on who was actually doing what.

We didn't have kids but just not having to deal with her needs freed up so much time and energy. Do you really think she'll change or is she just back because life's easier with you propping her up than by herself? That's really the question I'd want answered before deciding to continue on with being married to her.

Rather than trying to diagnose her psychological condition, which can be very subjective even for a professional, I would, as Cooley2 advised, look objectively at her past and current behaviors and actions.

If rehabilitative therapy and reconciliation are in your future, SHE has to be initiating all of the above. She has to be initiating with enthusiastic devotion. Are you observing that so far? You say she has a history of being unable to follow through with a goal without your help, without you doing most of the work. If this is accurate, then she’s a very poor candidate for R. True Remorse is fundamental. If she’s unable to emphasize, if she’s blame shifting and has a long history of blame shifting, that’s another strike against R.

You have categorically discounted just about every prerequisite required for a successful reconciliation. Unless she has an epiphany soon, I don’t see much to work with.

Reconciliation is freaking HARD, even with the most remorseful and devoted, proactive, empathetic, truly loving WS and BS with the finest counseling at their disposal.

Is it possible your marriage troubles started secondary to covert cheating? There is, many times, a long preamble to cheating that begins in the mind. It begins in the mind long before it begins in actuality and can involve some, or all, of the following factors: It can start with growing contempt, resentment and disrespect that progresses to indifference then disregard. Then, it progresses from ‘leaving-you’ fantasies and imagined scenarios to ‘cheating-on-you’ fantasies and scenarios. During this stage of cheating evolution the future WS begins to pull away, insidiously, progressively, from the marital union, from emotional intimacy, and is often described by the WS as, "growing apart" which the WS uses to justify their affair retroactively.

Then an EA evolves that progresses to a PA.

Often, the BS is only knowledgeable of the very latest stages of affair evolution due to WS minimization and cover up. It is quite possible that her affair has been evolving long before she has indicated.

I would strongly recommend a genuine wholistic reconciliation or a well executed divorce. Don’t settle for anything in between.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:00 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

In answer To your question about whether counseling will help, here is the answer:

It’s a cheater willingly decides to attend counseling and truly wants to meet Married, counseling can help.

If the cheater is going for any other reason, it may not help the marriage in the long run.

Thanks for all the replies, I'll try to answer as best as I can.

Just curious, do you know exactly who the AP is ? Do you know if he makes more money than you? have you informed OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse/GF) if any ? how did you get your evidence (could help others) ?

I don't know the guy. It's someone she works with from a neighboring country. She still hasn't told me the full truth. I found out she went on an unannounced trip and that her new lingerie was missing. When I called her she gave a flimsy excuse that she was buying it for a friend who was having marital problems. After a 2nd trip, I found it in her travel bag, used. At first she claimed she met the guy on the very first day there and slept with him that night. Right before she slept with him she had assured me she wasn't with anyone and that she would tell me, which stung more. She assured me it was purely physical and not emotional. Anyway her story didn't add up because if you didn't know you were going to meet someone, why would you pack your lingerie beforehand? Definitely premediated. In the therapy session she admitted that it was someone she was working with for quite awhile and that it was emotional. So yeah, I can't trust her and I don't know how far back it really goes cause the story keeps changing.

There are times I made more $ than my H and times he made more than me. It never mattered to us. I feel sorry for you that money is her excuse to cheat. You sound like a hardworking guy and a great dad. I’m sorry that doesn’t mean more to her.

The money thing is some weird core system she has that is obviously broken. It's easy to disprove, because in her system a lottery winner goes from lazy to hardworking overnight. But you can't use logic to beat non-logic.

We didn't have kids but just not having to deal with her needs freed up so much time and energy. Do you really think she'll change or is she just back because life's easier with you propping her up than by herself? That's really the question I'd want answered before deciding to continue on with being married to her.

I'm genuinely hoping for some real change from her. I know my marriage will never be the same again, but I hope that happens in a good way. I know the chances are basically non-existent, but you can't win the lottery without buying a lottery ticket right?

If rehabilitative therapy and reconciliation are in your future, SHE has to be initiating all of the above. She has to be initiating with enthusiastic devotion. Are you observing that so far? You say she has a history of being unable to follow through with a goal without your help, without you doing most of the work. If this is accurate, then she’s a very poor candidate for R. True Remorse is fundamental. If she’s unable to emphasize, if she’s blame shifting and has a long history of blame shifting, that’s another strike against R.

Well initially I initiated the counselling and gathered all the info because of the separation. D day came after that, so I had all the info on hand already and she agreed to go so I set it up. However, after the first session, I felt like she was still not telling the full truth and not owning the mistake, blaming the marriage in the session. I actually cancelled the upcoming session and wanted to go for divorce at that point, but she stuck on and kept the upcoming session for us. I wish I found this place before I did all that.

Is it possible your marriage troubles started secondary to covert cheating? There is, many times, a long preamble to cheating that begins in the mind. It begins in the mind long before it begins in actuality and can involve some, or all, of the following factors: It can start with growing contempt, resentment and disrespect that progresses to indifference then disregard. Then, it progresses from ‘leaving-you’ fantasies and imagined scenarios to ‘cheating-on-you’ fantasies and scenarios. During this stage of cheating evolution the future WS begins to pull away, insidiously, progressively, from the marital union, from emotional intimacy, and is often described by the WS as, "growing apart" which the WS uses to justify their affair retroactively.

Definitely. I think she's been scapegoating me for a long time as the reason she is unable to achieve certain goals. "If only I made more money all these problems would be solved". The irony is that I left corporate to pursue business so I would be able to fund her dreams someday. If I stayed on corporate which is arguably easier and more stable, I could have easily made more money than her, but would eventually hit a ceiling and not have any way to fund the end of her rainbow.

I don't know what she's thinking at the moment, but next week I am meeting her to lay down boundaries. I don't know how she will take it, and I hope I have the courage to just walk away from all this. I know it's hard, but I've been reading a lot of the material here and it's definitely helped with my view and my gameplan.

Please read all your posts. You are doing EVERYTHING to fix your marriage and she is barely doing anything. Posters on here, men and women, will tell you that never ends well. You just get more exhausted, more hurt, and she just goes on through life letting you do the heavy lifting.

Btw, could she be dragging her feet in order to hide money? You would not believe how common that is with cheaters. See a lawyer, and get your finances straightened and then lay down the law.

Hi OP.

Here's what you've described has happened, and what you hope happens:

Wife tells you no longer loves you > asks for separation > cheats > blameshifts, gaslights > 1 poor marriage counselling > OP HOPES MIRACLE OCCURS > remorseful wife > reconciled marriage.

We don't see the MIRACLE OCCURS around these parts too often.

- The betrayed husband can try to manufacture a miracle by kicking the cheater out and wife loses big house and easy street lifestyle. Or, drops divorce papers out of the blue on the wife, or starts dating a younger woman.

- Your wife asked for separation and earns more $ than you, I think you'll have a tough time shocking her into remorsefulness.

You have a 9 year marriage and a child, understandable you want your wife to come back. However, OP HOPES A MIRACLE OCCURS isn't much of a strategy to get out of infidelity.

Set a time limit on how long you'll wait for your wife. I think you should talk to an attorney to get educated on what divorce would look like for you, and to develop a plan of action for divorce if you get fed up.

Peace to you fellow empath.

Intelligent giver.

Healer.

I understand. You love and you want to give healing to this situation.

Your partner is used to taking. Also you are abused by her saying you have low value. Of course you don't. You have more value but she says so to hold you in her power and have control. So you try and prove yourself even more. You give more. What you need to do is stop. It's hard to imagine. We arent wired to not give. Ah but you and your intellect can team up with your insight and gut feeling to see this clearly if you can only step back.

Then you will see clearly. If you want healing for this person you must let them come to it themselves. There is no other way. Tell them you are going on the path that is best for you. Your going to get healthy. You're going to get your full rest every night. You're going to a place of low stress and peace. You're going to achieve your full potential. You're going to feel that you are who you are meant to be. You will be enough. Your dreams will be supported.

Now is she coming or not? No lies, no games, no more I'm more important selfishness. No more cheating. No more my life matters more. No more mischaracterizations of your or her contributions. Just two souls going for the same glorious goal....the support of each others desire to be the best person they can be. No not rich, not popular, not fancy house or car or clothes or job. The goal is true contentment. Peace. Mutual respect.

Step back and be yourself. Make a vision board. What's important to you? Where are you going? Is it truly satisfying to row her boat while she demeans you?

You have so much good to share. Don't waste your precious energy on someone who is selfish and unappreciative. Let her express her free will to show you what she really wants. You can't hold a tiger by the tail.

I have written big rants before about the need for sleep. Friend you need this for your precious mind. You can't do neural repair on just 6 hours. Eat healthy and include good brain fats like olive and fish oils. Sleep in a low stress, comfortable environment. Let your brain rest one hour before bed. No TV, no screens, no stress. Just relax and use soft lighting and music you like. Think about something you want to be inspired about or you can turn over ideas in your mind for your subconscious to solve.

You must. You must get 8 hours. You need to not eat 3 or 4 hours before bed. The first 4 hours your body is doing repair a d detox. The last 4 is metabolism Bala cing and weight loss and neural repair. If you fast and the last part of your 12 hour fast is those last 3 or4 hours of sleep, you grow new neurons like crazy and you have autophagy happening. All your old cells and damaged cells get broken down so you have new energetic ones. New mitochondria = more energy = better metabolism and better thinking.

You will feel so much better if you learn to sleep well. You will live longer.

You are important. The quality of your time here matters. Please be good to yourself. If you care about giving, the more you build yourself, the more you have to share.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 10:59 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

Yeah, for therapy to work she has to recognize that there is something to fix, that it is important to fix and, she has to really want to fix it. Then SHE has to initiate and follow through with determination, devotion.

It’s really not up to you. It’s ALL on her. It sounds like you’re trying to decide if you should OFFER her reconciliation. It doesn’t work that way. She needs to REQUEST and make a compelling offer for reconciliation from you. Then, you decide whether to accept her request or not. If she’s not taking necessary reconciliatory action, then your proper course has already been set for you. I recommend definitive action. Remain in limbo only long enough to make a well informed, well considered decision, and then execute that decision. Limbo land is bad for you, bad for your best outcome ($), bad for your child, chews away at precious fleeting time and compromises you-exposes you to manipulation, foot dragging and being outmaneuvered.

Necessary Reconciliatory Action:

-She needs to make a formal request for R.

-She needs to make a compelling argument for why you should gamble on R.

-She needs to present a proposal for R that consists of a plan of action she intends to execute. Her plan of action should include the following:

-Full NC

-Timeline

-STD testing

-Full disclosure that includes a willingness and patience to answer A related questions.

-Full transparency

-IC followed by MC

-Inform OBS

-Boundaries

-Reference materials (books, periodicals, journals, web based media) that support your mutual expectations of reconciliation.

And then she needs to initiate and follow through. If she’s not at least interested in reconciling herself-with herself (fix her shit) she obviously can’t reconcile the marriage.

Currently, it seems, she’s showing little interest in reconciling herself or the marriage.

PS: It will be good for you in divorce that she makes more $ than you. Not surprised to hear she resents you for that.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:30 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]

Yes it's great to have a high energy person to inspire you. Also you can try the throw your hat in the ring method if you procrastinate. You pick a goal and a deadline. Figure out how long it will take. Pick the start day and begin. No excuses. You need to complete by the deadline. Some people choose to invite guests over, th3n begin to remodel the guest room or bathroom before they arrive. I had tasks for work to research so I could get started and finish by the pitch date. I signed up for costume fashion shows or got tickets to a dance so I had to finish my costume by then.

My personality driver is creativity and my co pilot is exploration ( infp ) so I like people who want to go new places, do new things, listen to new ideas. I've met and worked for many smart and driven people. I like being a helper on grand projects. The thing is you have to save something for yourself. I had to work hard on the getting started on my own projects. It was always easier giving everything to someone else's idea. It's important to make time for your own dreams and give them the energy they deserve. You can find the energy and motivation. Build your confidence. Let go of negative thoughts that hold you back. You will always have what you need if you believe in yourself.

Hi ff

I’m sorry you are here.

Quite often we see here betrayed spouses mistake dragging their cheating partner through counseling because they think that is what "fighting for your marriage" means.

It’s understandable.

But counterintuitively as it may be, the opposite is really true.

By going to counseling, especially marriage counseling, you have opened the door to blame shifting and for the therapist to "treat the marriage" and not the person spreading blame evenly when that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Let me tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes. And remember for me, I would do this even if I wanted a life with my partner still. Forcing someone to stay with you, because of guilt and regret, or to save face, is NOT a recipe for a happy and successful marriage going forward.

So here are the steps I would take if currently facing the same awful situation you are.

I would start by telling her, "you cheated on me and our marriage. Both physically and emotionally. You made someone else your partner and husband more than I was.

You broke your marriage vows to me. You didn’t forsake all others. You didn’t Love Honor Cherish and Protect me. No, you did that for him.

When you did that. When you fell in love and had sex with him, you ended our marriage. Not legally, but practically.

If you want to be with him, I will give you that chance. But even if you want to be with me, I will be divorcing you. You ended the marriage, I did not. But I will legally end what your choices destroyed.

If you want to have another chance with me, you will have to change. I’m not holding my breath that you have it in you to do so. But maybe you’ll surprise me.

I will make no guarantees that I can find it in my heart to forgive you. And you have a big hurdle to be with me if that’s what you decide you want because I won’t forget what you have done.

But I’m not interested in a life with the person who was able to do this to me so callously. You had no concern how this would hurt me. But if you work on yourself and figure out what was so broken inside you that you decided this was the best path for you, me, us and our family, then down the road, depending where we each are in our lives, we can discuss the possibilities.

But that work starts with you and individual counseling on figuring out if this is the person you want to be the rest of your life. You treat people poorly. That includes me. And you have a superiority complex that needs to go. You are not better than others. In fact, as a cheater, you’re worse than most.

So if you really want to win me back, then you’ll do that work. And if you don’t do it, that will show me that you don’t really have me in your heart that way.

Because one of the first things you’d have to prove to me is that you love me and no one else. And right now I’m sure I’m not even #1 in your heart let alone the only one. I cannot be with someone who is in love with another. That’s a deal breaker. And I think it’s gonna take a long time to prove to me that your cheating partner, your boyfriend, is someone you actually see as the pond scum he and you really are right now.

So take your time and decide what you want. You’ll be served soon with divorce papers. Perhaps that is what you want since all your actions the last X months point to that as your end goal.

I promise to be the best coparent I can be. I hope you will also as that’s what is best for our child. And if you decide to put in the work, and it starts with a minimum of 1 year in weekly therapy, and I see you taking actions to protect us instead of your lover, then maybe we can talk in a few months. Because quite honestly, except for discussing our child, I’m not interested in talking to you anymore. And if you stay who you are now, then I don’t see myself being interested in talking to you anytime soon.

I wish you well."

Honestly ff this is to me how you truly fight for your marriage. You each in this way have to "let go of the outcome ". If you are truly wanting a life with her, you have to let her decide to truly work for it. If you dont let her do that, and you push her to do things she wouldn’t willingly do herself, you only end up reconciling with yourself, not her. And again, that is a recipe for an awful life.

Think about it. Glad to answer any questions you may have.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:34 PM, Thursday, November 3rd]