SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As much as you have benefitted from finding this support group, we have also benefitted from YOU! "One day you will tell your story of how you've overcome what you are going through now and it will become part of someone else's survival guide." This quote applies so much to this group. We all learn through wisdom and gain support from this group of people.

I am happy to hear you are gaining a deeper understanding of your WH's motivations and character. I have no doubt you will do what is best for you and your son. I suspect deep in your heart you know the path you will chose. Whatever path that is, may you be filled with peace and courage as you embark upon it. You are on your own timeline and will know what to do when you are ready.

I think that some members (myself included) want to spare others from making the same mistakes during this crisis. For instance, some of us "wasted" years with an unremorseful partner to keep the family together or fear. The other perspective is the time was not wasted... perhaps it allowed the kids to get older, the betrayed to be more at peace about chosen path, lessons instilled for the next chapter in life, etc. It's all how one choses to look at it.

I think you have amazing gifts (wisdom, courage, communication, insight, intuition) and those will continue to guide and carry you. One of the hardest parts to reconcile when in a lengthy marriage is coming to terms with who your spouse truly is. It is a massive mind f*#^. It is hard to put it in a neat little box. We don't want to erase the cherished memories because some of it was real. But there is a deep seated dark part that would be difficult to fit in your world and speaks to character flaws. When a person shows you who they are, believe them.

All the best, encouraging you forward at your pace...this is your race. No judgement here, ever!

[This message edited by kiwilee at 3:08 PM, Wednesday, December 7th]

I mean to update right after the last post but things got hectic!

To start with I don't know how this will go over here, but I talked to the original Whistlesucker OW by phone. Initiated by me, but she really wanted to talk. I just woke up one day really wanting more questions answered and knowing she was the only one who has been willing to give me answers, and most of the real info I've come to know about WH is from her. I'm not sure how much real info in terms of new facts I got from the conversation but I think I understand things a little more now in a psychological sense.

One big thing I learned is that WH talked about me quite a bit to this OW. He told her where I work, what I do, some of my childhood and upbringing issues, really private things about me, too. This kills me. It is completely unforgivable, in a sea of unforgivable things. I already had all the dates they got together in my master calendar, proof of this and pictures from when we Facebook messaged, and there was nothing new in her info about that.

He also told OW alllll about his issues with his mother, and the Whistlesucker told me that SHE was the one who encouraged WH to go to therapy 'for the first time ever', which she said he started going to in 2021 (this isn't true, he was in therapy from 2017 - 2019 and I can see in our insurance that he didn't start going back until after Dday, Aug 2022, he's such a liar). When I told OW that he'd lied to her about therapy, she was pissed that he'd lied to her!! Imagine.

The main thing I wanted to know from her is what he told her about his feelings about monogamy. This has been the number one thing that tells me our marriage has never been based on an honest foundation. I know from his chat group posts that he considered himself "nonmonogamous at heart" but I also thought that could possibly have been him bragging in front of other cheaters. But the OW said they'd had long talks about it and he told her he didn't feel guilt for sex or romantic feelings for other women, that he told her he knew this BEFORE we were married, and that he thought, when we got engaged, that marriage might change him but probably would not. So according to WH (a liar) talking to OW (who sleeps with married men and then wants to dish with his wife as if we are equals) he entered the marriage knowing he was never going to be faithful.

She also verified a few dates that had nothing to do with her, though she didn't know the context of the things she told me. She told me that WH told her his first affair happened in a certain state, which we only lived in for a few years when we first got married. So he actually did start cheating right away when we were both in grad school. OW also gave me the first name of a woman he was involved with in the second state we lived in (the name means nothing to me, it wasn't a friend or neighbor or coworker as far as I know) and that he'd told her he was seeing that OW for 2 years. WH also told her that he'd seen sex workers starting when we lived in that second state, and continuing to right before he was with the Whistlesucker. I asked her if she really believed he'd stopped seeing prostitutes when he was with her, and she said she thought it was a Covid thing. So COVID stopped him from seeing sexworkers, but not the threat of STIs, my pregnancy, his marriage or family?

So I got what I needed and the picture I have of my marriage now is one in which WH does not have and has never had a moral compass, he has never had respect for me or my health or safety, and that there is seemingly no amount of women and sex and attention that is enough for him.

Meanwhile WH is in very bad shape emotionally. He's begging me to help him, give him a chance to rebuild trust and he's just in a deep hole. He looks gaunt and haggard and it just kills me, I'm filled with guilt and pain and I feel every bit of his suffering and everything in me wants to comfort him and help him and take care of him.

No, I'm not acting on this.

I'm journaling, seeing my therapist twice a week, meditating, trying everything I can to make it through these feelings without caving in and comforting him like I desperately want to sometimes. The problem with these feelings is that all of MY love was real. All of the bonding and commitment I've been doing all these years has been real. I know HE is not who I thought he was, and I know he's manipulative and very likely a lost cause as a husband, but knowing that and accepting that are two totally different things. I'm working towards acceptance. I'm not there yet.

I told my therapist that I could see a scenario in which we divorced, and then if WH ever did the work necessary in therapy and inside himself, he could come back and woo me and we could start over. My therapist just went with this at first, but then started having me play this forward, would the real WH want the kind of marriage I want? A monogamous, supportive one in which we were two equals and there was no perception of a competition? And the answer is, my fantasy husband would want that, the man I thought I was married to would want that, but the WH that I uncovered this summer? I think that WH is hard wired this way.

I appreciate everyone here who has told me not to waste time with him, to divorce and be done with it, to move on and not put myself in a position to give any more time to WH - and I think it's becoming clear to me, my therapist and my attorney that I'm moving in that direction. I know it's slow and seems ridiculous when my WH's actions have been so consistently awful, I wish my heart would move forward and my resolve would stay in one place consistently, that's just not where I am right now. I am very slow and deliberate and I just have a lot of emotional prep work to do to contemplate this.

He has lost himself a good lady.

That shell of a person you see is a man in narcissistic collapse, and mortification. It is horrendous to see, really confronting to see the sickness on the outside. They can go into mild psychosis as well ~ mine did, it was awful especially he had shared care with my son and I didn't know how bad it would get. If it is any consolation, once your husband gets a bit of control back (not necessarily you acquiescing) he will bounce back to how he was before. I dont think many are permanently disabled by the whole exposure thing.

I wonder if the fantasy husband thing is some sort of cerebral variation of hysterical bonding. A necessary step to pass through to get to the next step, which is letting go. Humans are complex creatures thats for sure.

[This message edited by VezfromTaz at 12:31 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

Thanks for the update, Sigyn.

First, a few musings from your last post:

So according to WH (a liar) talking to OW (who sleeps with married men and then wants to dish with his wife as if we are equals)...

May I say that I deeply, deeply wish painful future betrayal on every person who knowingly joins into any type of affair with a committed person.

It is stunning that the OW you spoke with knew your WH had a LONG track record of affairs and knew he was willing to lay your secrets bare to her. Yet, she was surprised that he lied to her about therapy. She knew he was a liar, but thought their relationship was oh-so special and different and authentic.

I'm also not surprised he lied about therapy to her. He likely played it like, "Here is how I've suffered and been put upon in my life...but I've never had therapy because I'm tough and have just powered through--so pity me more for having no support up to this point." Then he knows when he pretends that she's "talked him into" therapy, she'll feel important. So, he's reeled her in even more.

Finally, some support to you:
It's great that you are taking things at your own pace and staying strong against your well-engrained impulse to be a support him in his "suffering."

On this note, I strongly suspect that, once you are in a living situation where you rarely see him, you will find those impulses to feel sorry for him are greatly reduced. I do believe that, once you are living separately, you will feel a great deal more peace and happiness, and a lot less concern for him.

In the meantime, I wish you strength.

Meanwhile WH is in very bad shape emotionally. He's begging me to help him, give him a chance to rebuild trust and he's just in a deep hole. He looks gaunt and haggard and it just kills me, I'm filled with guilt and pain and I feel every bit of his suffering and everything in me wants to comfort him and help him and take care of him.

When you reframe this just a little bit, you ARE helping him. Hitting bottom is typically what creates impetus for change. Whether he accomplishes true change or not is out of your hands, but comforting him just now could ruin whatever chance he has to really look at himself and to FEEL the need to reevaluate his life. No matter what happens in your marriage, change can only benefit him. Losing you and losing his family dynamic is an expensive, painful lesson. Time will tell whether he learns anything from it.

Sometimes it's better to slap a hand than hold it.

Hi Sigyn, as they say, slow and steady wins the race. You're doing just fine.

I'm glad you feel that the conversation with OW helped you a bit. Just the fact that your husband was willing to tell all about you to an AP who was titillated by it . . . it's such a glimpse into his mindset. It feels like they were both getting off on humiliating you, like you were an important silent partner in their relationship. Without you, would either of them have wanted a "relationship"? I doubt it.

I had a brief interaction with my own OW, which I found beneficial. For me it was an opportunity to say my piece but also be gracious, which felt good to me. You're right that there were posters who told me I just "gave her my power" by doing so, but that didn't ring true for me. And in your case, you have someone who is clearly super invested in you and your marriage which culminated in her tipping you off out of some misguided attempt at sisterhood (which was clearly just a self-serving opportunity to remain invested in your story). Your husband has denied you information and you used the OW's weird desire to insert herself into your story to your advantage. In other words, you used this situation to empower yourself better. If this lady thinks anything weird or untoward about you based on your conversation, well, she's already done plenty of that without input from you. Who cares.

Yes, your husband is in a deep hole. One which he dug himself. He wants you to grant him a get out of jail free card at your own expense. Unbelievable, after every bit of dirt he shoveled out of the hole was at your expense. He didn't care about you then, and he clearly doesn't care about you, not in a true human-to-human empathetic way, now. He cares about his access to you.

Keep on keepin' on. You're doing fine.

You are still in a trauma state believe it or not, you are highly educated and very smart, but no one is immune to the emotional pain they must go thru when you find out you are betrayed. Think of it being very similar to finding out your husband died all of a sudden, you would be in deep mourning. This is the same thing but when it is a betrayal the person is not dead but your marriage is dead, however you have to keep looking at and dealing with the perpetrator who has caused you this pain. Its brutal. That's why we say that unless or until it happens to you, no one can truly understand how deep down this goes for a BS and having your spouse betray you. You are in deep mourning and missing the husband you THOUGHT you knew, he is gone.

And I agree w the others, by detaching yourself from him you ARE helping him. He is like a drug addict right now that is missing his fix. That's why it is so hard for parents or siblings or spouses of drug or alcohol addicts, cuz you love them and want to help. You are a good person. You loved him. But this is something that he has to go thru on his own. And you need to go thru what you need to on your own. Glad you are going to therapy twice a week and have that support right now.

[This message edited by realitybites at 3:56 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

I know HE is not who I thought he was, and I know he's manipulative and very likely a lost cause as a husband, but knowing that and accepting that are two totally different things. I'm working towards acceptance. I'm not there yet.

This is the hardest part I think. What you experienced and felt from your WH is your basis of who this person is. And then to uncover and know on a logical level the darkest deeply flawed parts of him have left you rightfully reeling. It's like Jekyll and Hyde. You loved and thought your WH was Jekyll and then you learned from your searching and OW that he is also Hyde. Its a head to heart matter. To know something on a logical level does not translate to knowing it on a heart level. You have information of who WH is, but you have never "felt" it on a deep level. This was not your primary experience with him when you were living your married/family life. As I said in previous post, it is a mind f^*#.

You are trying to get to to acceptance while you are working with accepting a completely different dark version of him. You are not bonded to this part of him so of course it is hard to fully accept. He is an imposter, a fraud...you loved the version of him he showed you. It will take time to process through and truly come to accept. Be patient with yourself! You have moved mountains in a short amount of time!!

Keep trusting your gut...you know what you need on a deep level. You will get there when you are ready. This is your race, at your pace.

It is stunning that the OW you spoke with knew your WH had a LONG track record of affairs and knew he was willing to lay your secrets bare to her. Yet, she was surprised that he lied to her about therapy. She knew he was a liar, but thought their relationship was oh-so special and different and authentic. rolleyes

You know the funny thing about this? In the cheater chat community I briefly infiltrated to get information, they all brag about living an authentic life. They have NO scales over their eyes, to hear them tell it. They have discovered ultimate honesty, they say, by being being open to having sex with anyone and everyone while their sucker spouses are bound to some archaic and stifling life of being tied up in pointless rules.

And this entire time this dipshit of an OW is patting herself on the back for having lived such an authentic life in which she was calling herself my husband's "partner" and eager to share info about my husband with me - his sucker of a wife who knows nothing at all about him - only to discover she's also a sucker and he's a liar. So much for radical honesty amongst the cheaters.

Only she got to walk into it with her eyes wide open, more fool her.

He likely played it like, "Here is how I've suffered and been put upon in my life...but I've never had therapy because I'm tough and have just powered through--so pity me more for having no support up to this point." Then he knows when he pretends that she's "talked him into" therapy, she'll feel important. So, he's reeled her in even more.

Yep, nailed it. She was so proud of this, too!

When you reframe this just a little bit, you ARE helping him. Hitting bottom is typically what creates impetus for change. Whether he accomplishes true change or not is out of your hands, but comforting him just now could ruin whatever chance he has to really look at himself and to FEEL the need to reevaluate his life. No matter what happens in your marriage, change can only benefit him. Losing you and losing his family dynamic is an expensive, painful lesson. Time will tell whether he learns anything from it.

My therapist said the same thing! Back when she was still humoring my idea that maybe after a divorce he would reinvent himself through self analysis and therapy and come back to me as a better husband. She told me that people often have to hit rock bottom to rebuild, and the marriage and hope for fixing the marriage is keeping WH's floor well above rock bottom.

I initially thought that the last thing in the world that I want is to be complicit in my son's father hitting rock bottom, but in the last few weeks I'm starting to see that what would be even worse is being complicit in him staying where he is right now. He truly does look like he's collapsing, as VezfromTaz wrote. It is incredibly painful to watch. Which also makes me think that WH has been watching ME collapse but feeling none of those same things.

You are doing great. You are moving forward and detaching, and this is all helping you get to the point where you pull the trigger and walk away. You’ll be ready when you are ready, and you are doing all the things to help you get there. As painful as it is, there is some peace in finally seeing the truth of who our partners really are, and no longer doing the mental gymnastics we’d been doing to keep them on unearned pedestals. You now see him for who he is.

I also thought I could myself back w my WS if he went and did the work. But as time has gone by, I realize that no, no I cannot ever see that. I am no longer bitter or angry, but I also see the gaps and flaws in him and our M in a more realistic way and I will never settle for that again. Plus I really just don’t like him anymore. You may see something similar over time— we’ll see.

Congratulations on holding your boundaries and being brave enough to look at the situation clearly.
You are a strong person. His loss.

You are probably also in some sort of chemical withdrawal ~ you did so much for him, cared for him, made things nice, saved him from the truth, even if you didnt always know you were doing it. The only sympathy you should have is for yourself, but it is hard and will takes years.

I'm not saying the physical manifestations of his withdrawal are false, but he would be well aware making himself visible to you would cause you to feel sympathetic toward him ~ because you are one of those dreaded naive human beings with feelings who care for others. The chickens have come home to roost for him I'm afraid.

[This message edited by VezfromTaz at 10:33 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

So much I want to commend you here, and also hug you. You have saved yourself, I was in the same position 7 years ago multiple AP's paid encounters, just the works. I chose to reconcile (small kids involved) with a post-nuptial with firm infidelity clause that paid spades to either of us who cheated (never have I). Even the risk of losing everything he has worked so hard for meant NOTHING.

Well you could have guessed it with this type, WH has been caught again, likely never stopped, he played nice, made promises, love bombed me to the hilt. His narc and compulsive behavior is in his DNA.

I gave him years of my life that he never deserved. Don't let this be you.

My STBXH has a deep hate for women, his mother abused him and then he was sent to his grandmother who did the same. His Dad died when he was 5. Basically a mess of a childhood, but STBXH had choices, he always made the ones who benefited his addiction.

Stay strong Sigyn.

[This message edited by Crazytrain101 at 10:53 PM, Thursday, December 8th]

As always, you’ve come miles since your last post, Sigyn. You’ve even taken on one of the OW.

they all brag about living an authentic life. They have NO scales over their eyes, to hear them tell it. They have discovered ultimate honesty, they say, by being being open to having sex with anyone and everyone while their sucker spouses are bound to some archaic and stifling life of being tied up in pointless rules.

I honestly think that for this type of person, serving themselves exclusively with no rules of honesty or loyalty or integrity to others is what they think of as their "authentic" selves.

We would think that authenticity has some relationship to honesty, but I think their definition might be more being "true to themselves" in a very twisted sense of that expression. They indulge themselves completely at the expense of others with no concern about whether or not they have to be dishonest or unfaithful or complete frauds. And they look at the rest of us as useful suckers (spouses, colleagues, friends) or co-conspirators (APs and friends who act with them in dirty business). My WH, when cornered, would often defiantly ask what I (or his mom or his dad) expected when we knew he was a pathological liar. This served to make everyone back off and try to reassure him, but it also was him defiantly declaring that he had no intention of behaving differently It was him saying that he was "authentically" a liar.

Of course, somewhere they know that none of this is true and that they are frauds, which serves to fuel their bitter resentment and anger.

One big thing I learned is that WH talked about me quite a bit to this OW. He told her where I work, what I do, some of my childhood and upbringing issues, really private things about me, too. This kills me. It is completely unforgivable, in a sea of unforgivable things.

Yes, this for me was one of the biggest betrayals of all. I spent years living vulnerably and openly with this man. And nothing was sacred to him, especially not my trust and faith in him. I have all of his correspondence—both work and private—with her and other unsavory friends during this time. He talked about me in one measure or another to all of them. The sharing of my private information was power and some kind of revenge to him for some perceived slight and it was power to her too. She did this with multiple men too and TOLD MY WH about the private things about THEIR wives that she had been given. It was the homage that they offered each other in their transactional relationship. I’m sure that they both felt that they were able to be "authentic" with each other in the sharing of their true, base, nasty natures. It was like they both reveled in owning that they were faithless, lying, fake people. They each "trusted" the other to praise and admire images of themselves that were completely fraudulent. My WH was very clear that he was lying to her, but I’m not sure that at the time he was clear that she was also lying to him—that she didn’t believe that he was intimidating and brilliant and. . . She just believed that he served her purposes, and one of them was the buzz she got from feeling that men were betraying their spouses on her behalf. They used each other.

I initially thought that the last thing in the world that I want is to be complicit in my son's father hitting rock bottom, but in the last few weeks I'm starting to see that what would be even worse is being complicit in him staying where he is right now. He truly does look like he's collapsing, as VezfromTaz wrote. It is incredibly painful to watch. Which also makes me think that WH has been watching ME collapse but feeling none of those same things.

This is where we get trapped, isn’t it? Like so many others that have posted here, I kept getting sucked back in to HIS pain and then, like you, remembering that he had not found MY pain to be compelling in any way. I gave my WH a list of things that I needed from him. It didn’t change much over time. But he remained completely committed to the idea that my healing should happen in a way that was comfortable for HIM, and he continually tried to refocus my energy on what HE was going through, how hard it was to alter lifelong behaviors, how much he was a victim of his childhood and others and my lack of complete attention to him and his needs and feelings. One thing I was clear on was that this time my needs had to be addressed.

It took me five years of imagining that he was working himself up to actually doing any of the things that I needed. He continued to lie and withhold information. I made excuses for why there wasn’t any change, why he wasn’t doing any of the things that I had made very clear that I needed, why he continued to believe that there was some kind of mutuality in the injury. He was incapable of having any kind of conversation about the A without counter-attack, deflection, blameshifting, dishonesty, rage, stonewalling, and on and on. He was incapable of hearing ANY kind of feedback of any kind about the smallest thing. His behavior was continuing to affect my kids.

FIVE YEARS. Until one morning, I woke up and the first thought I had, in a completely clear, calm voice that was not my own was: He hasn’t done any of what he committed to because he doesn’t WANT to. Period. I got up, went in the bathroom and took my wedding ring off. I never put it on again. . .and when he noticed, THAT was something that he thought he had a right to be upset about.

So I’ll just say again, like a lot of others, that he is feeling pain for himself here and no one else. He expects you to fix it and to sacrifice yourself and what you need to do that. He isn’t even looking for a compromise where each of you give a little (which is completely unreasonable in this situation where he has done what he’s done). He’s looking for you to put yourself aside completely to make it better for him. . .like always.

I don’t say this because I’m worried. You are seeing things so clearly here, and that’s why it hurts so much. When we really have to see what they are instead of what we believed and hoped and depended on them to be, it is so horrible. As kiwilee, VezfromTaz and others have pointed out, it is a complete destruction of the reality that has always existed in your mind and heart about your marriage and family and husband.

I know intimately how hard it is for our entire being to truly accept that the reality that you have lived in and based everything in your life on does not exist. It’s why I use the word mindfuck so much, but it’s really a mind and soul and heart fuck. It’s what produces the back and forth of rage and devastation and horrific sadness and guilt and doubt, doubt, doubt.

You have amazing IRL support, your therapist kicks ass, you are the lighthouse, and you will get where you need to be in your own time. I have a strong feeling that it won’t take you 5 years for that inner voice to tell you what you need to accept. Thank you for sharing your story here and bringing all of this wisdom together in one place, Sigyn. Sending hopes for strength, peace and light as more holidays approach.

[This message edited by NowWhat106 at 3:01 AM, Friday, December 9th]

NowWhat pointed something relevant out. A normal person would feel ashamed of being exposed for being dishonest. Narcs are not ashamed of being dishonest - they are proud of it because it demonstrates how superior they are they can get one over the rest of us. Like it's our fault for being so stupid to expect they'd be honest. They can be proud of all sorts of things that you couldnt possibly fathom. In my DV work, just this week I had the adult child of a life long DV offender saying her dad would show her his criminal record, brag about how long it was, and that all that time he had only been to jail for x amount of months. He was proud of how he had avoided consequences, and duped everyone along the way, including the cops and judges. I mean, the mind boggles....

[This message edited by VezfromTaz at 1:39 AM, Friday, December 9th]

You know the funny thing about this? In the cheater chat community I briefly infiltrated to get information, they all brag about living an authentic life. They have NO scales over their eyes, to hear them tell it. They have discovered ultimate honesty, they say, by being being open to having sex with anyone and everyone while their sucker spouses are bound to some archaic and stifling life of being tied up in pointless rules.

You know what, these people can miss me with their self-congratulations. It is NOT hard to find someone who also wants an open marriage. It has literally never been easier than it is today. You're not monogamous but you also want to be ethical? Guess what buddy, that is actually a thing! You win an open marriage!

So this group of people is actually just a bunch of cheaters deluding themselves. It is not ethical to mislead someone or to enter a contract under false pretenses. Consent is the ultimate equalizer but these folks just want to get off on deceiving their spouses. They're sick.

FIVE YEARS. Until one morning, I woke up and the first thought I had, in a completely clear, calm voice that was not my own was: He hasn’t done any of what he committed to because he doesn’t WANT to. Period. I got up, went in the bathroom and took my wedding ring off. I never put it on again. . .and when he noticed, THAT was something that he thought he had a right to be upset about.

This was me 5 months ago. Of all things, I was lying on a massage table in Bsli of all places, on the second last day of my holiday stressing about my situation and the things I was finding on my WW's phone in the dead of night when she fell asleep. A voice inside me said, 'WHY are you puttiing up with this? WHY are you committed to someone whom you feel compelled to check their phone, because in your heart and gut you know they are playing you for a fool? Husbands and wives don't put up with this!' I went back to the room and it was 'all over' (lol) a day later.

Sigyn, I am amazed at your courage and objectivity throughout this.

Meanwhile WH is in very bad shape emotionally. He's begging me to help him, give him a chance to rebuild trust and he's just in a deep hole. He looks gaunt and haggard and it just kills me, I'm filled with guilt and pain and I feel every bit of his suffering and everything in me wants to comfort him and help him and take care of him.

Amazing how their behavior ends up reflecting on their faces like the painting in the attic of Dorian Grey. My WW at 38 is now looking haggard, all pretense of beauty and self-respect now gone. I actually pity her. That feeling must be universal based on what you are saying about your WH. Hedonism at the expense of others doesn't just cost nothing.

I know HE is not who I thought he was, and I know he's manipulative and very likely a lost cause as a husband, but knowing that and accepting that are two totally different things. I'm working towards acceptance. I'm not there yet.

Neither am I, but I'm close. For all their faults, they were people we were deeply attracted to. It's hard to not be hard on ourselves for feeling that way. Which segues roundly to...

It is hard to put it in a neat little box. We don't want to erase the cherished memories because some of it was real. But there is a deep seated dark part that would be difficult to fit in your world and speaks to character flaws. When a person shows you who they are, believe them.

This. We lament for the person we thought we'd lost. That person never existed though; it was all a mask. And a mask they willingly wore when around the person they swore to honour no matter what.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 12:51 PM, Friday, December 9th]

Just remember when he looks all gaunt and haggard, and you want to comfort him, that he is rendered bereft by the loss of his lifetime habit of deceiving you, and getting his way. The "actual you" is nowhere in the picture. So no need to feel guilty about not wanting to take care of him.

(Mind you, I do understand. But these feelings are best turned off)

Hey Sigyn. Just getting caught up on your thread. Two things.....

One, your stbxh, Whistlesucker, the cheating community and their ilk live in an alternate reality, kind of like a negative of a positive image. What we call black, they call white and visa versa. I come from a religious tradition that references this in a text describing this lifestyle as those who call evil, good and good, evil. This is the depths of their self deception. They love the shadows because thats where they thrive. YOU, however, drug it ALL into the light and its not doing very well anymore, is it? So be it. Keep it up. Your resolve is inspiring.

Secondly, this:

Meanwhile WH is in very bad shape emotionally. He's begging me to help him, give him a chance to rebuild trust and he's just in a deep hole. He looks gaunt and haggard and it just kills me, I'm filled with guilt and pain and I feel every bit of his suffering and everything in me wants to comfort him and help him and take care of him.

No, I'm not acting on this.

Remember pages back where you were the recipient of his equivocating, gaslighting, denials, and his general hoo ha? Remember the tread that shyt took off of your tires (and still is) all in the midst of your personal hell? He saw you suffering immeasurably and it didnt dissuade him from hanging on to his lies, did it? Its a testament to your character that you can make statements like that at this juncture, BUT, you cannot spare him from himself or the natural results of his betrayal exposed. Youve been living with a marital traitor. Your own Benedict Arnold as it were, and its time for him to pay the piper. Some call what hes done "infidelity" (way too benign a term for me). I call it marital treason the depths of which include divulging private personal details about your life to his sk@nks. How low can he go? Quite abysmal apparently.

Anyway, if hes really serious about getting help, he will check himself into one of the many tremendous clinics around the country that deal with sexual addiction for that is what he surely is, among other things.

Pity him if you must, but please spare your sympathy for yourself and your child. You need to marshall all of your emotional resources for your own healing and well being so you can continue to move forward and leave his cesspool lifestyle behind you forever.

As always, strength to you to continue to do what you must.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:47 PM, Tuesday, December 13th]

Hi Sigyn! Hope you are doing well during the holidays! How is your son holding up?