SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

GMC - I really like the idea of two separate timelines. We are about to start another round of couples therapy, and it seems that she is finally ready to offer up a full disclosure, after so many years of minimizing and just giving the next small piece of the story. I can see this helping - thank you.

A BJ from a prostitute is unsavory, but not that significant in the long run, so who cares about the sordid details

This is a perfect example of what people mean when they say it is different for each person.

My H got a blow job from a prostitute. For me, to say that "A BJ from a prostitute is UNSAVORY", is like saying "the death of a beloved family member is a bummer".

And, personally, I care about the sordid details. I do. Yes, for many reasons that have been mentioned, but - for ME - it is that I believe I deserve to know the details of MY life. And, YES, to me - ANY sexual behavior my H has IS part of MY life.

I want to thank ALL of you for your stories and sage advice. I have felt the need to ask general details because my mental movies are crazy and, if I believe what he tells me, it truly helps with my imagination going wild. I may be a fool, but at this point I continue to believe most of what he tells me. His story never changes not even a bit. I even asked him to show me the site where he found these wonderful ladies and he showed me. I was shaking and upset, but more settling than the mental movies. Just facts..painful facts. But facts. Can't mess with facts. One detail I know will hurt is "when" the 2 successful encounters happened. He says he can't remember exactly. I don't believe that one...Was it his birthday? Our anniversary? I am shocked that he says he doesn't remember...he may think it'll hurt me more to know. I can see the pain he experiences as he watches my pain...Funny....I am not empathetic AT ALL. But, it does help to know that he is hurting from what he admits were his transgressions. We are off to therapy...I am wondering if he's figured out his timeline. I don't know if I will attempt to R. It's too raw and I don't want to make any rash decisions so soon. I agree that the transactions, were just that...transactions and not emotional. I need to come to terms with this before deciding what to do...it's my moral compass now. I am eating some of the words I have said in the past about what I'd do if this ever happened to me.

[This message edited by theshockofbetrayal at 5:59 PM, Monday, July 25th]

I have myself 6 month increments to decide if I was ready or not. It took about 18 months to see that XWH wasn't doing the work, and then he sexually assaulted somebody who made him tell me. I was done.

It's ok to take time to see if this was a deal-breaker or if you want to see if he's R material. There's no guide book, no magic words that will make the pain go away.

well Neo. The red pill or the blue one? I’m 8 years out. Don’t get the movies regularly but still get triggered occasionally. At the beginning i wanted all the info I could get. Councillor said to keep the sexual details to a minimum. I was furious. What the hell did the guy with 25 years of marriage counselling know anyways. People on here told me more was going on. I needed to know. I searched, asked, demanded and threatened. I got it. Regurgitated it. Ruminated on it. But for me it was like being addicted. Looking back and not being in it now I see the logic behind the not knowing. It sort of harms you by traumatizing you further. You can’t unknow something. And regardless of what your spouse does to fix the harm they’ve done it’s the white elephant in the room. For me I just will never feel the same towards my wife. Because of the things I know. The details weren’t that important. Fixing our marriage came well ahead of them. But finding the fine line between knowing enough and not enough is a slippery slope.

As easy as it is to dwell on the sex, you're dealing with potentially serious financial infidelity and health risks. You don't know the full scope of this betrayal as of yet because lies are like cockroaches: for every one you see, there are 100 hiding in the walls.

If I were in your position, I would do the following:
-Get tested for STDs now and every 6 months thereafter for as long as you're still with him.
-Demand your husband get tested for STDs and submit to full drug testing panel. Hookers and drugs tend to go together.
-Refrain from having sex with him while you figure out your next move.
-Run a credit checks on yourself and your husband.
-If you can afford it, hire a forensic accountant to scour your financial records and history and uncover any hidden accounts and suspicious financial activity.
-Get his devices (phones, computers, iPads, etc) to an IT specialist who can dig up his complete browsing and call history and recover any deleted messages and files.
-Talk to a lawyer and find out what you could reasonably expect if you filed for divorce and if there are any things that you need to do to protect yourself, given that your husband has been arrested for a crime.

All of the above will give you a clearer picture of what you're dealing with so that you can make informed decisions about your future.

He says he can't remember exactly. I don't believe that one...Was it his birthday? Our anniversary? I am shocked that he says he doesn't remember...he may think it'll hurt me more to know.

Never accept "I don't know" as an answer. Nine times out of 10, it means "I don't want to tell you." It's not rocket science to find out when he saw these prostitutes, particularly if it was only 2 other times. He should be able to at least remember an approximate time period and be able to check his transaction/ATM history. If he was finding prostitutes on websites, he would also have browsing history, email, and/or phone calls.

Most likely, he has been seeing prostitutes far more frequently than he is willing to admit; he doesn't want to commit specific dates and times, because if you dig around, you might uncover the full scope of his infidelities. He is hoping he can get away with admitting only the bare minimum of what he thinks you will be able to prove or what he thinks you would be willing to accept.

Tell him that as a requisite for you even considering reconciliation, he needs to tell you everything... and that if you find out anything on your own that he didn't divulge (even if he forgot about it) then you will immediately file for divorce.

Even if tongue condums are used, there's still the possibility that hpv goes to the throat and cancer can be an issue. STDs aren't always the problem.

A main reason I wanted details was because my imagination, like yours, can go pretty crazy otherwise. In some cases what I imagined was worse than the truth.

Like other posters, I strongly suspect "I don’t remember" means there were way more times than three. I would push that detail until I felt confident I knew the truth.

I think emotions are ALWAYS involved, since I believe emotions drive logic. What did you H think and feel that allowed him to choose to use a prostitute? For example - this from a prostitute interviewed in Playboy 60-ish years ago - most of her customers wanted oral sex and hadn't worked it out with their wives. That's a problem, IMO. What's behind the unwillingness? What's behind sneaking around instead of owning what those Hs wanted? What's behind not being open enough to work this out between the partners? Unless those barriers are taken down, they're barriers to a better M.

When I wrote before, I knew I was forgetting something - fact vs mind movies. Like you, I got a lot of comfort from knowing that the actuality of the A was far different from what I imagined it was. YMMV, but in most cases, the reality of the A is not as glamorous or as filled with delight as the BS imagines.

sisoon, I agree -- "the reality of the A is not as glamorous or as filled with delight as the BS imagines."

My wife started her affair during a work retreat at a small golf resort in the next state. A few months after DDay, I went there to see it for myself. I ate dinner in the bar where they flirted, and then walked the grounds between the lodge and the hotel rooms. Suddenly the glamour of anything they did was gone in my mind. It was just a place ... a motel with nothing special at all. Being there kinda reclaimed that part of the story for me, and my imagination hasn't been in control since.

the reality of the A is not as glamorous or as filled with delight as the BS imagines.

I did want details, but more of an a overview. Who what when where and how. From there I drilled down into specifics. I have grilled my W on some of the points and came to a comfortable conclusion.

I had this vision of passionate sex with a Fabio looking guy, like a cover of a romance novel. It was so far from reality. It was pathetic, anxiety sex, with ED. He was overweight and looked 10 years older than me. My WW started crying during one of their sessions and every time they got together she would send me over the top messages about how she couldn’t wait to see me, how she wanted sex. I was able to establish my own time line based on those messages.

ShockOf - your last post had some gems...

he may think it'll hurt me more to know.

This is common with WS, and I think stems from several factors. One is that the WS does really feel awful about the pain they've inflicted. Another is that the WS feels shame about it. Another is that they are scared witless that disclosing anything else will end all hope of the M being salvageable. I'm sure there are more. And the ways in which the factors weigh will vary from person to person. IMHO, I think the WS feeling awful about the BS' pain is usually pretty low in the grand scheme, as it seems to me that one with a healthy amount of empathy is unlikely to cheat to begin with (and let's not get empathy confused with what Brene Brown would call "hustling for your worth", they are two separate things). For me, my WH lost the ability to have any say in what was -or was not- painful for ME the second he took my agency in our M by engaging in an A to begin with. IOW, why on earth would I trust my WS to have ANY say in deciding ANYTHING "for" me or "on my behalf" after lying and cheating? I'm a damn grown up and I can decide for myself what I do - and do not - want to know; anything short of that is, IMO, my WH trying to control me and control the outcome and consequences for his own crummy choices. You may have a different perspective. I guess my "point" is that a WS' tears could be for the BS, but they could also be for themselves and THEIR pain and shame and fear (which I truly believe is more common, ESPECIALLY in the first weeks/months).

it does help to know that he is hurting from what he admits were his transgressions

Super interesting to read this today. Last night I watched a film (released years before my dday) about a BW discovering her WH's infidelity and the scheming for revenge. One of the things the BS says is she wants her WS to hurt like she does... or worse than she does. I could see that film through the lens of someone that's BTDT bought the Tshirt. I think seeing my WH squirm did help - at least for awhile. My point is to tread cautiously and with awareness on this front, as we humans, and especially we humans who are traumatized BSs, might feel better from the suffering of those who harmed us, but it may come at the expense of helping and healing OURSELVES, and losing a bit of our own "good" stuff. It's like having a drink is ok, but maybe not the whole bottle - KWIM?

I don't want to make any rash decisions so soon.

Early on, I read something (and then had IC tell me) that making major life decisions in the midst of trauma usually does not bode well. That made sense to me (although my LONG time in "limbo" also says I may have taken it too much to heart - I'm working on it ). I've heard/read 3 months and 6 months. AND, I also think that it's really up to the BS. Some instinctively "know" right away that this was a dealbreaker and are not interested in making a new "deal". Others want a bit of time to get their footing. Others want a bit of time to see if their WS has what it takes to heal and build anew. We are all different. My opinion is each of us should be able to take as much time as we need (and apparently I needed A LOT!)

I am eating some of the words I have said in the past about what I'd do if this ever happened to me.

Oh honey! I think we ALL have eaten some of those words. And I think we ALL deserve a ton of self compassion for them. I just didn't know better. But I make damn sure that when I hear others with some of those same ignorant ideas about infidelity, I let them know there are other perspectives, and that NO ONE, not even the worst of the worst spouses, "deserves" to be cheated on, and NOTHING a BS did or did not do bears ANY responsibility for any WS' choice to become a liar and cheat. Just my $0.02.

Godspeed.

I had to have the details. I tend to visually process things to begin with. It helped me in a way to see the patterns of what had happened. How our marriage got to that point. I had more questions as some things finally processed weeks/months later. I was more hurt by the emotional part of the affair then the sexual part. There was a level of intimacy he had with her that I wish I did not know. She had a piece of his heart, that hurt more then anything else. Do you want to see the pattern and how it happened? to understand the signs or do you want to know the details?