SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone, I hope you are having a terrific weekend and hopefully have some time to spend with family and loved ones. I need feedback on a situation that has come up for me. It is not related to dating relationships but one with my brother. My brother is two years younger than me. We're not super close but we usually try to communicate with each other fairly regularly. He's the only kinship I have left, as our parents are deceased and I haven't been in much contact with other family/relatives. He used to live only a few minutes away from me, where I live in our childhood home that used to belong to our parents, but about ten years ago moved an hour away to the semi-rural/suburbs because his wife wanted to move there.

Last week he told me about his friend who recently became licensed as a financial planner. He strongly urged me to listen to his friend's presentation on different life insurance and annuity products. He obliged me to host his friend at my house last weekend so his friend could give me his presentation and sales pitch. I had so much work and looming deadlines (for example, interim reports at a time that I'm falling more and more behind with grading, from having more than the maximum capacity of students in each class but one). But he insisted and told me he'd already set up something with his friend to give me the presentation last Sunday afternoon, so I obliged and even cooked lunch for my brother and this friend. His friend was there so long, almost 6 hours! In the last few hours I kept secretly internally panicking about how I was going to have time to get my grades done and other work tasks. I ended up staying up past 1am just to get the most immediate work tasks completed for the next day. Although I already have a state employee pension plan waiting for me at retirement in about 5 years, along with an IRA, I purchased an annuity from this friend mostly to be nice and show gratitude for his time. I thought I'd done my part and that everyone was happy.

Then on Monday evening, my brother phoned me and immediately started reaming me out, telling me how rude and selfish of a person I was. I was stunned. He then said I was in the wrong to buy only a small annuity after all the time his friend had spent at my house, telling me about so many other financial products. He also said I should have bought more stuff because I have less expenses than him due to having no kids and much lower house expenses. I am confused because I thought financial planners give their presentation with no obligation for people to buy anything? Also, didn't I already buy an annuity? He then told me how irresponsible I was for myself. He said I should be spending way more on my retirement because I need more in retirement since I have nobody to take care of me someday due to having no kids, no husband, and no living parents left. I feel very hurt by all the things he said. It still pains me, almost a week later, thinking about the things he said.

Am I the jerk here? Or is he? Should I have bought more products from his friend, considering his friend did spend 6 hours of his weekend talking with me? Then again, I admit a small side of me also kind of resents the fact that I was stuck tying up so much of my weekend work time listening to a presentation when I was already tight on time for getting work tasks completed for my high school teaching job. Who is in the wrong here? My brother still hasn't started talking to me again. Usually he checks in with a phone call at least once a week but this weekend he hasn't. I'm worried that I've lost the one last person from my family who is still alive and talking to me. How can I eventually mend things with him, or should I wait it out? My friend who used to be a colleague told me "f him" and that my brother is not a good person. She has thought bad about him ever since I told her about my brother's affair (it was both PA and EA) he had some years ago. Then again she's never met him or been in my shoes. I still know him and love him as he's my brother. Is she being unduly harsh or is she right, that I shouldn't talk to him?

[This message edited by teacherjoggergal at 3:37 PM, Sunday, May 1st]

Hi tjg,

Lets lay it out here:
1. Brother imposes his friend on you for an entire 6hours of your precious weekend off
2. Friend takes 6hours to go over financial products??!? I have been to professional financial planners and we were jn and out the door in 2hrs. He wasted your time and his own and is therefore incompetent.
3. You buy an annuity to appease your brother. One you dont need or want.
4. Brother has the gall to scream at YOU for being selfish?!
5. You suffered a night of no sleep and a verbal attack for your brother and somehow youre even thinking youre in the wrong??!?!
6. Your brother is still behaving without compassion toward you even though he know the pain you have been through with work stress and pain from your not-truly-a-BF of 20yrs.
7. Your brother had a AFFAIR on his BW and has the gall to believe he can tell you how to run your life.

I was abused by my older sister as a child. Your brothers pattern of behavior matches hers to a T. He is entitled, abusive, belittling, verbally violent, and absolutely does NOT care about you.

If you were to have this person described to you by a friend, wojld you recommend they stay in a relationship with them?

It hurt, but my mom and sister (dad too but hes dead) are all narcissits like your brother. Look up Dr. Ramani on youtube. Her talks were of great help as I mourned the mother, father and sister I didnt have. Also took me going VERY grey rock with my mom amd eventually sister to start really deeply healing. I had to mourn the future relationship I wanted and deserved to have with them too.

This is critical for you to see- the people you have allowed into your one precious life are NOT the people you have dreamed them to be.

Time to go cold turkey on thw hopium. Dr. Ramanis talks can help you with the journey through your withdrawal and into healing.

Wishing you the best. As Bigger says, if someone is unhappy in their life, they must look to themselves to change it.

Hello, and thank you so much for listening to me, or should I say reading what I wrote, and responding. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. I agree with you that my brother is out of line. However, I do question if I am doing something wrong for him to treat me like that. Yes, it took six hours last Sunday. I admit part of that is because we only spent about three hours or so actually going over the financial products. I served them lunch, and we spent some time conversing and hanging out before we go directly into the presentation. I thought it was a good way to bond and spend time with my brother. Apparently I was wrong.

Your brother is being a jerk. Definitely not you.

You were kind and gracious to allow his friend to come into your home to give his sales pitch.

You fed him.

You are under no obligation to purchase anything from him. If he wants to spend six hours trying to sell you products, that is on him.

Why is your brother so invested in this friend's business to the point he is treating you poorly?

I would never buy anything on the spot and I would not have the mental energy to listen for six hours.

I have rather conservative (read: sensible) views on life insurance. An industry that IMHO has gone completely insane in overselling all sorts of not-necessary stuff. Plus this isn’t a financial planner – it’s an insurance salesman.

I have no obligation of leaving ANYONE other than my wife and minor children financially safe after my days.

In the early years my wife and I were both insured to an amount that would cover a potential end-of-life crisis. Our plan was so that if either passed away the other could cover medical costs not paid by our insurance, funeral cost, the outstanding mortgage, finish college funds and a SMALL fund to help during the transition phase of two incomes to one income. Every 3-4 years we would reevaluate our needs. Basically, they would lower since our individual wages went up, mortgage lowered, savings/pension increased, more in the college funds… and therefore we could lower the insurance cost. Eventually we reached a stage where we no longer needed the safety-ring of an insurance policy.

I have talked to people that have life insurance for their kids, their pets, themselves…
It’s a grim subject but in all bluntness: If your ten-year-old kid passes away – is there a financial hardship that would break your home? I get the emotional part, but it’s not as if the kid was paying the utilities with his paper-run. Or if Fido the mutt gets hit by a car. Going to bankrupt you?

In your instance… You are alone. If you get hit by a meteor tomorrow… other than maybe 10k for a decent funeral what’s your need? Why do you need insurance? What debt do you have that might become a hinderance to someone else?

In this instance your brother is at fault, and the retort to him might be to question why he places the interest of his friend above his relationship with his sister.

I have a financial background. I am not a qualified financial adviser, but I have voulunteered with a recovering addicts program in guiding young people in cleaning up whatever financial mess they might be in. This is what I would suggest to you:
I would point out that you – as a single person with no dependents – are not the ideal candidate for any life-insurance policy AS LONG as your passing doesn’t leave anyone in a financial hole (such as cosigners on loans). The only factor for buying life-insurance is that it might be cheaper doing so today rather than 3-5 years from now.
My FINANCIAL (versus life-insurance salespitch) would be to get a term life policy, but to work at reaching a position in life where insurance is no longer an issue. Depending on where you are now that might be a policy for 15-20 years, and at the end of that period you are financially independent and can "afford" to die without any financial hardship for those dependent on you.

My heart goes out to you. You can't say 'no' to too many people.

This inexperienced 'financial advisor' - what is his certification? - plays a numbers game. He should make sales to a certain percentage of the people to whom he gives a presentation. If he doesn't, he's in the wrong business. If his sale came because your brother bullied you, the salesman gets the wrong message. As it is, the salesman gets a hefty percentage of your investment and a free lunch, not a bad return for 6 hours of work.

You show a lot of signs of being a victim of abuse. Find a good IC to find out if that's really the case. If you are a victim of abuse, it's clear that 2 of your abusers are your boyfriend and your brother.

The solution is one form or another of learning to say 'no' in a way that makes it stick and getting the abusers out of your life.

I know that's very difficult to do. It's much easier said than done. I know you fear you can't do it. But you really can. You really have more strength than you think.

(((teacherjoggergal))) - hug, if you want one

TJG— your brother is a bully. I wonder what was in it for him.
And I think he thought you were a pushover, so you’d just buy what they told you to buy. Good for you for not doing that.

I agree with Bigger’s post. And with SIsoon. You are stronger than you think and you need to keep flexing that muscle.
No is a complete sentence and a completely okay thing to say. And if you are concerned with your retirement planning/end of life plans, then seek a unbiased fee based person to help you develop a plan. Not your brother’s friend who appears to be working on commission.

Some IC really will help—

(Also, you said you kind of resented the waste of your limited weekend — but you’ve written about this a couple times here. You are more than kinda resentful — you are angry. I think you need to accept and recognize that. You are allowed to be angry that he insisted on this during a week you were super busy. Your feelings matter. Your time matters. There was NO urgency for that sales pitch to happen that weekend. Learn to say no. Learn to say "not now- let’s talk again in a couple weeks when my schedule will be more free". Learn to say "I’ll think about it". It will serve you well. )

Please get therapy, to build your self-esteem and independence.

Tell your brother to go F himself.
Seriously no one deserves or needs that kind of abuse.

You're an intelligent woman, you have planned your future. What you choose to do with your money is no ones business.

In the future just decline stating that insurance and savings are deeply personal and prefer not to mix business with friends or family.

If you knew anything about annuities you would not have bought one. The seller / financial planner makes a huge commission. And you need that $ - you pay tremendous fees to get your $ out.

Your brother is a jerk.

Always keep your $ and your family relationships separate.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 2:05 AM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

Thank you to everyone who responded. It has been a week now and I still haven't heard from my brother. We usually have a weekly phone conversation initiated by him, since he feels his schedule is more time limited than mine, but this week he didn't call. I'm not planning to initiate contact just yet since he's been so hurtful. Is that wrong?

I think you deserve an apology.

Nobody should ever be under any pressure or obligation when it comes to retirement savings.

You are an adult with a good job, A pension and savings and support yourself. It is not his business what you do or plan to do with your finances.

He crossed a line.

TJG— your brother is a bully. I wonder what was in it for him.

This. Your brother is overly invested in the success of his friends business to your detriment. Almost sounded like he was roping you into a MLP pitch, like amway. That's just weird and uncalled for from anyone. Never the less friends or family. Do yourself a favor, when your brother does finally call, demand an apology.

"A fool and his money are soon parted". Thomas Tusser.

Let your brother give his money. Hang on to yours. I am guessing your brother was going to get a split from the deal.

If his love hinges on you doing what he wants, even if it bad for you, is not love.

Hi TJG,

I'm not planning to initiate contact just yet since he's been so hurtful. Is that wrong?

This is a boundary: "I am not going to chase after people who have done hurtful things. They need to make amends before I even consider spending my precious time on them." Boundaries are good and something you are JUST learning to set.

Think of it like this: You were a cat raised by wolves. You've been going about your life thinking you are an omega in the pack, when really, all this time, you've been a CAT. You are your own person. You don't owe the pack anything. Cats come and go and choose their people. Stop acting like an omega- become your own person.

Setting boundaries means making a decision to protect yourself from harm (Do I buy this annuity I don't need? Do I call my brother who verbally abused me the last time I talked to him?). This is a foreign country to you and one you need to keep exploring. You're making good steps and starting to speak the language.

Keep it up. You don't owe anyone who does not show you the RESPECT and KINDNESS you deserve anything- especially your precious time.

Say this to yourself, every day: "I am a person deserving of kindness and respect."

Put it on your mirror. Sticky note it in your car. Put it as a background on your phone. You deserve kindness and respect. When people give you anything less, walk away. Eventually it will become your mantra and hopefully your way of life.

I agree that you need to work on your boundaries and learn that "no" is a complete sentence.

Your brother is a dick for pressuring you to buy from his friend. And he should have no influence over you whatsoever as to how you manage your finances. None.

It is not a bad thing to put yourself first.

I wouldn't call him, and if he does call you, I would tell him that you did not appreciate being strong-armed into buying a financial product you don't need, and that his reaction was over the top and he needs to butt out of YOUR life and YOUR decisions.

Cat

You remind me very much of myself. I have trouble saying no.

The thing to do here was actually to say no EARLIER.

Believe me I probably would have done the exact same as you did. But I find it useful to try to learn from it and re-play things the way they should have gone.

Even though they appear to be enjoying spending time with you, sales people don't want to spend time with people who won't buy things. So it's certainly possible that the planner did not feel the time was well spent, even though you did in fact make a purchase. In one sense, that's just the way it goes for them - win some, lose some. Normally the sales person would have no reason to expect a big sale, unless your brother created an expectation. Sounds like he did, and then was embarrassed that it didn't pan out.

Your brother is definitely in the wrong here, I hope he will realize it, eventually. Why is he so invested? Is this planner a romantic interest of his?

If/when he eventually reaches out, you should not apologize, though you could mention you regret not making your intentions clearer earlier. And as for his "concern" about your finances, that's so crazy, I wouldn't respond. If he brings it up, then "my finances are mine to manage".

Also, cancel that policy if you can!!! In many states you have 30 days I think?

This thread has stuck to my mind…

There are two things I want to address:

A very empowering moment in my life was when I realized "no" is a complete sentence and is something I’m allowed to say.
I don’t overuse it. I don’t refuse everything or anything I’m asked to do. I do go out of my way to be helpful. But I also allow myself and my priorities to have their place and am fine with "no".
At the same time, I have also accepted that others are fine with saying no to me. Ask a favor – can’t be done – fine. My friendships are not based on who does the most for me but rather who gives me the most emotionally.

The second factor that bothered me is the job-title of the "financial planner"…
It’s like calling a cars salesman a "transportation facilitator" when in fact he’s only interested in selling you a new car.

Like I have stated: I am not a licensed financial adviser, but if I were to sit down with someone to offer guidance my first job would NOT be to sell anything, but to understand the situation.
How do you handle your finances?
What are you earning (in detail).
What are you spending?
Do you budget and do you stick within in?
What are the basics?
What are your luxuries?
What are your debts?
What are your goals?
What are you willing to do to reach your goals?
What are your risks?
What risks are you willing to take?

Amongst the basic questions would be to discover if anyone would be financially impacted by your passing. Cosigners on loans, spouse, children, dependents… That in turn would eventually lead to the question on how to alleviate the impact, for example with life insurance.
From this info some plan can be made. That plan can include insurance if you meet the needs, regular savings, funds, ROTHS… whatever. But it should not include a six hour sales-pitch.

Bless your heart, you are anything but a jerk. Your brother took advantage of your relationship and your time to help his friend make money off his sister, and was pissed you didn't make him look better by investing more.

You are nice, and the best blessing here is you didn't invest more with the guy that spent six hours trying to make you part of his paycheck. I agree that six hours was ridiculous, that hosting at your house was above and beyond, as most investors host at their office or at least buy the prospect lunch, not the other way around!

Maybe you should reach out to your brother and ask why he felt it was ok to use you like this? What is his stake with this financial planner friend? Why are you responsible for making this new venture a success? Did your brother present you as a lucrative prospect since you don't have kids or other financial obligations? Why didn't the "planner" recognize how well positioned you are and quit the hard sell? You should try to communicate to your brother that you feel used and disrespected by him, especially as he placed his friendship above his family.

Your post struck me, because a very good friend, divorced, began dating a financial planner. He got a lot of her money tied up and subsequently lost most of it. He tried to sell me too, but I wouldn't have it. He was really big on the catastrophic health insurance too, and kept harping on fears of potential future medical costs. I said no thanks, I am not looking for additional assistance. He acted put out, but I just did not care, and thought it was a strange boundary to cross with his GF's friend. I guess everyone was a potential customer to him.

I hope you are able to salvage your relationship with your brother. I relate to having little family and wishing for a connection with those I have left. My brother is a mess, and we will never have a relationship where he cares for me as much as I do for him. He is dragging around childhood resentments that I can't begin to understand. It helps me to see him for the person he is and not the person I wish he was, and to not engage beyond superficially with him unless I want to get hurt again.

Your brother owes you an apology. He was WAY out of line here and he is just digging himself a bigger hole by blaming you.

If your brother's friend has a work ethic, some talent and is in the right business, his success will not depend on one teacher's investment in his products.

Best to you and I hope you enjoy the heck out of your retirement in five years.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 4:48 PM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

Let your brother give his money. Hang on to yours.

Actually, my brother didn't buy anything that day. Not sure if he ever bought some from his friend previously or not. The salesman is a former colleague who used to work with my brother.

No, I don't think my brother is romantically interested in him lol. My brother is not gay. He's married and has really been on a tight leash ever since his wife devastatingly found out about the affair he had with an old former high school classmate/crush.