SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

One useful way to look at anger is that it's just a sign that you want something to be different in your life.

Some stuff can't be changed. My WS cheated. No matter how angry I got, I couldn't change that - expressing that anger by shouting, writing, hitting a punching bad or pillow, exercising, etc. - could help release the anger.

Angry or not, on d-day I knew I could change my future. If my W and I could agree on what our M would be going forward, we could R. As we went forward, anger was a sign that I had an issue, and the anger told me to get the issue resolved.

Hurthalo, That's where you seem to be - you won't be a single parent while your unremorseful WS goes off on her new assignment. That's a good decision, not least because it's a decision you have reached yourself.

Covid-19 saps its victims' energy. Your physical health has to come first. The stronger you are, the easier every part of life is. You're making a decision that will effect decades of your life and that of your family. If you need time to gather energy and resolve, so be it.

*****

Some of the advice you get from SI aims at helping you figure out the path you want to take. Other advice tells you what to do. The advice I found most useful was that which helped me find my own way.

Hurthalo,

You're welcome re: the advice. I don't come on here much anymore and when I do I rarely post as I feel like I am past "the process" of figuring out what to do and I find that my advice ends up being more short and to the point in the vein of what I wish I had done - not necessarily what I did -and you situation seemed like something worth that reminder - the process has been grinding for you for a long time. I also realize that I can't get someone through the process any faster just like I couldn't get through it any faster myself. The point of my post was to help you remind you to give yourself permission to let go.

I do stand by my belief that when a WS actually decides to drop the charade for a moment to give you a glimpse into what they are thinking, even if the truth itself is shrouded in lies, you have to take that information and run with it or to think about it long and hard and as emotionless as possible, e.g. only consider what is best for you and not all the anger and bitterness and hurt that comes with it - a long term view to the extent you can. There comes a time for most of us where that voice in your head urging you to "save yourself" gets too loud to rationalize not giving it some serious thought.

My WS never gave me the poly talk, but at one point, after years of telling me that the A was over following D-day, that he didn't want to lose me, denying he ever was emotionally invested in his A and it was all about sex, and saying over and over that he wanted to work on things (the A was ongoing the entire 2 year period of this false-R except for 3 months), he casually mentioned while discussing our relationship that he actually had thought for awhile (but not anymore) that he was in love with her and that he had wanted me to leave for a long time but did not say anything due to job I had taken (dream job for me right where we lived - I am from the other side of the country and would have gone back if we were not going to stay together) like it was something I had already known and that I for a time I was just hanging on even though he had made it clear that was not what he wanted. He basically slipped and confessed at that moment that not only was his description of the emotional aspect of the A a pile of bullshit, but that the 2 years of "R" hell following the A was entirely fabricated and nourished by him. As you might imagine I lost my mind and this turned into a huge blowout, resulting in him becoming incredibly defensive and telling me he still wanted me to leave (but denying he still thought he loved her) - all of which occurred when the A had again started back up.

I planned to move out and then COVID lockdown hit and I was stuck in the house, and three weeks later he changed his mind and did not want me to leave - back-peddling, much like your WS is doing now. He tried to minimize the truth about his feelings for her and the context in which the confession occurred, claiming that at the time he confessed about the love/wanting me to leave he was angry, and that what he said wasn't really an accurate assessment of the last 2 years and that he had only wanted me to leave occasionally back then and that he had been confused...blah blah blah. He had forgotten the tone of the conversation he he made his "confession" (which was really a total slip up - it was actually one of our more peaceful and what I thought heartfelt conversations up to that point) so he was just lying more to cover up what he had said. In other words, when the outcome (eg my leaving) seemed real, the back-peddling began and he tried to get back to where he was before he let slip that sliver of truth. It seems to me this is akin to your WS's back-peddling now. Your WS faced with the likelihood that her behavior cannot continue or you will leave, wants to minimize not only what she has been doing, but what she said at all - to keep you (for purposes you really don't know no matter what she says).

It's much like my WS, whose actions can be summarized something like this:

Hey, back then I lied to you (to protect you as I didn't want to hurt you) about the A and about R and actually wanted to be done with you and take off into the sunset with AP, but not anymore, unless you get pissed about my lying to you about my intentions and feelings back then, in which case you make me angry and I still want you to be gone, unless you actually are going to go, in which case I didn't mean I always wanted you to leave back then, and I only thought I was in love with her sometimes, but now I know better and I want to you stay, and even though I'm still talking to her I don't really want to run off with her - I really do want what you want for us too and I will do whatever it take to stay together. *I think right now, in this moment anyway because I'm panicking and losing control of the situation...*

I'm pretty sure you could put together something similar to what I did above to describe her actions recently. Honestly in re-reading my italicized statement of his it's embarrassing and hilarious, to think I gave that ONE SECOND of thought at the time. (That is the other good news - I do actually think it's funny now - that he acted like that - what an idiot! I'm not embarrassed for me - I'm embarrassed for him. You will get past the hurt and the anger - which at the time seemed impossible - I promise!!!)

So, forget all the context - forget the white-washing she wants to do - forget the professions of love - forget the re-characterizing of your more recent past to conform to her reasons for doing what she's been doing. At BEST she has shown/told you: 1) she is not capable of discussing with you in a truthful way any important difficulties/dis-satisfactions she has with your marriage; 2) she chooses other people over you to discuss her feelings with when she has these feelings; 3) she wants to be free to be with other people or at least have that option without consequence; and 4) she is willing to VERBALLY acquiesce conformance with what she thinks you need to hear to keep you on the line. That is AT BEST. At worse, she is 100% willfully manipulating you, like my WS (has since admitted) to doing to me for years, in order to keep you around for reasons she herself may or may not understand.

So again my advice is: SAVE YOURSELF - whatever that means FOR YOU.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 6:56 PM, Tuesday, July 5th]

Sorry I haven't checked in in a week or so, but I have really appreciated all the replies. I really thank you for your time and care in answering, and some of the advice is fantastic. Well most of it is actually! To be honest, things have gone utterly pear-shaped (horribly wrong in Aussie slang!) and have really taken a turn for the worse. Bear in mind that of last update, that 'nothing happened with this guy from work'....apparently.

I just got back from a lovely holiday with the kids and her, and we went into it with the provision from the MC that we'd 'have the big chats but park them if they started getting ugly.' Remember in my last post how I discussed the guilt I felt going through her phone? Something didn't stick right in what I was thinking while I was over there, so I went on another snoop. Even typing that makes me realise how silly the concept of having to check your wife's phone is. 3 months ago she told her same friend 'he's a great deal of fun, and not low on confidence or...skills (winkface, winkface)' I hit the roof and woke her up. She claimed it was about 'his skills at conversation'.

The next night I dive deeper. There's evidently months of conversations with him deleted. Hmmm. In another recent message she tells same friend, 'I'm also trying to manage a break up. As much as I'd like to think it was gap filler, I also have to manage the actual loss. There was actual investment which is tough to lose. Selfish but there it is.' SHE WAS IN AN EFFING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM?!? A few weeks later to same friend, 'It's starting to get tricky. I wonder how long I leave it before fessing up.' My heart thunders in my chest. She's sleeping beside me and I wake her to start questioning her. She tells me, 'it was only emotional, there was no relationship'. I ask what sort of ending of a 'non-relationship' gets called a 'break up'? She tells me it went on for 6 months but it was purely emotional though (apparently) and completely one sided on her part. I park it for the evening after a lot of 'wtfs' were uttered. The next day I am having a massage at the resort, and I have a relaxed epiphany: WHY am I putting up with this?

I lose it. I tell her that it's over, I can't live like this, and no husband should have to check his wife's phone for evidence that she has cheated. We eventually calm down after deciding to park this for the MC. I try and get some sleep.

The next day was our final day and we depart, the plane ride home (6 hours) was frosty. I'm barely hiding my anger. We have a 3hour car ride to get back to our city. As soon as I get in the car, my composure from a day in the plane and the airports disappears, and my eyes well with tears. I shouldn't have done it in front of the kids, but I start questioning the 'emotional relationship' and how it is completely unrealistic that it wasn't consumated. She gives me a timeline of Sep 21-Mar 22 for the EA, but she decided to 'break things off with what she was doing mentally' as it was going to get messy, and noting he had a wife and 2 other g/fs, she said the EA was 'one-sided'. I again call bullshit and ask her flat out, did you sleep with him? She pauses and says yes. On a military course while drunk way back in Nov 2020. Apparently they then 'cooled' everything out of shame before the EA started again about 8 months later. I asked if protection was used. She can't remember. I assume no. That's another betrayal heaped on vile betrayal.

I start screaming and calling her names I'm not proud of. I can barely stay on the road and I scream my grief. The kids are sobbing. I pull over and we calm down and drive off in silence. I cried the entire 3 hours behind my sunglasses. I posit to her that my repeatedly stated suspicions of this guy were on the money, and that she has lied to my face at every turn by claiming I had nothing to worry about. I also posit that the MC was all bullshit, it was merely a tick in the box for her to further project onto me her shameful failings at fidelity. I told her that this has cost her: at least $300k of equity in the house, her job in the other city (which now goes bye bye with the custody requirements), and the respect of her kids as they grow up and ask why their parents had to break up.

I kicked her out and told her it was over when we got home, and she packed a bag and moved to a friend's place. And here we are. It has been a day or so and I have never cried so hard in all my life. I've been vomiting, and I had a panic attack, but I'm trying to hold it all together for the kids. I know D is the right answer here, but God it hurts. This isn't repairable on the second go around the track.

EllieKMAS wrote:

You know the reality here my friend. If she is determined to cheat, there's precious little you can do to stop her doing so. You could be the BEST husband on the planet and it does. not. matter. Her doing this is about HER, not YOU.

What you CAN do is decide what you're willing to deal with and then make your choices accordingly. That suuuuucks being forced into making that kind of a decision, and it isn't fair at all. But once you really own that the only control you ever have is over yourself and what you will or will not allow the game changes.

She's shown her true self now, and somewhere in an attic is a Dorian Grey-esque portrait rotting at a breakneck pace. I told her going forward that she needs to address her addiction to infidelity/validation from men, or she's dying lonely.

ThisIsSoLonely wrote:

It's much like my WS, whose actions can be summarized something like this:

Hey, back then I lied to you (to protect you as I didn't want to hurt you) about the A and about R and actually wanted to be done with you and take off into the sunset with AP, but not anymore, unless you get pissed about my lying to you about my intentions and feelings back then, in which case you make me angry and I still want you to be gone, unless you actually are going to go, in which case I didn't mean I always wanted you to leave back then, and I only thought I was in love with her sometimes, but now I know better and I want to you stay, and even though I'm still talking to her I don't really want to run off with her - I really do want what you want for us too and I will do whatever it take to stay together. *I think right now, in this moment anyway because I'm panicking and losing control of the situation...*

I'm pretty sure you could put together something similar to what I did above to describe her actions recently. Honestly in re-reading my italicized statement of his it's embarrassing and hilarious, to think I gave that ONE SECOND of thought at the time. (That is the other good news - I do actually think it's funny now - that he acted like that - what an idiot! I'm not embarrassed for me - I'm embarrassed for him. You will get past the hurt and the anger - which at the time seemed impossible - I promise!!!)

So, forget all the context - forget the white-washing she wants to do - forget the professions of love - forget the re-characterizing of your more recent past to conform to her reasons for doing what she's been doing. At BEST she has shown/told you: 1) she is not capable of discussing with you in a truthful way any important difficulties/dis-satisfactions she has with your marriage; 2) she chooses other people over you to discuss her feelings with when she has these feelings; 3) she wants to be free to be with other people or at least have that option without consequence; and 4) she is willing to VERBALLY acquiesce conformance with what she thinks you need to hear to keep you on the line. That is AT BEST. At worse, she is 100% willfully manipulating you, like my WS (has since admitted) to doing to me for years, in order to keep you around for reasons she herself may or may not understand.

So again my advice is: SAVE YOURSELF - whatever that means FOR YOU.

This. All of this. And over and over again. The italics made me snort with much-needed laughter, but the 4-point summary is spot on. Being accused of being emotionally distant (was I? I don't recall being so?) and that it is affecting the marriage while she's devoting time to another relationship....the sheer audacity is breath-taking. I would suggest that no matter how emotionally available I was, she would have cheated anyway. At this point it is in her blood. It's what she does. It's who she is.

I have never cried so hard in my life. It's the end of the marriage, I lose a best friend and wife, as well as the betrayal of finding out she had slept with him heaped on top of that sorrow. I have no doubt we will be amicable going forward, but this is terrible.

In better news, my mother flies down to help with the kids tomorrow. My father cheated on her (and got divorced when I was 4) and she is PISSED.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 4:20 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

I'm so glad your mom is coming to help, and sorry things have taken such a turn. I know you were prepared for this possibility, but it's still so shocking when it arrives. Bear in mind that your brain doesn't know the difference between clear and present danger and emotional threat. It puts out the same panic signals to your body in order to prepare you for fight, flight, or freeze. That's why you were sick to your stomach, right?.. an influx of cortisol and adrenaline. So right now, good self-care is more important than ever. Eat what you can and sleep when you can. Hydrate with water and forego alcohol altogether. Get some light exercise. See your doctor to discuss stress management and STD testing. Remember to breathe through the stress; it really does help.

ETA: It might be wise to see an attorney earlier rather than later. It really bugs me that she was trying to maneuver you into an open marriage. It's so calculated and controlling. She's years ahead of you in terms of knowing the whole truth and having the time to plan accordingly. I just think you might need to play some catch up and to make sure you don't fall into any legal traps.

STOP talking to her in any manner that you wouldn't be comfortable speaking in front of a family court judge. Right now, she's not someone you can trust. Keep a VAR on your person whenever you might encounter her so that you never end up in a he said/she said situation.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:24 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

Chamomile gives very good advice. I urge you to go see an attorney that specializes in family law immediately.

So sorry. I’m an Australian lawyer, not a family law specialist though. It’s a no fault jurisdiction although sometimes information of misconduct can provide you with a small amount of leverage. If you have been the primary caregiver maintain the status quo. The Court will look to maintaining that. The Court recognizes the importance of children maintaining a relationship with both parents. In short, act stable, make it all about the kid’s wellbeing.

Also, my advice. Take care of your health. Very little alcohol for now.

[This message edited by straightup at 9:14 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

I start screaming and calling her names I'm not proud of. I can barely stay on the road and I scream my grief. The kids are sobbing. I pull over and we calm down and drive off in silence. I cried the entire 3 hours behind my sunglasses.

Your children have just been traumatized by what happened in front of them. They will remember this drive their entire lives. Do not show them any more. Make the divorce quick and clean. They deserve to no longer have to be 3rd parties to the slow disintegration of your dysfunctional marriage.

If you keep initiating scenes like this in front of the children, it could impact custody (as well as continue to traumatize them), so be careful to keep your emotions under control when they're around. They're obviously not your wife's top priority, so they have to become your top priority, where you put their well-being ahead of your heartbreak, ahead of your anger, ahead of the natural desire to focus on your breakup. That's being a responsible parent. The best thing about having finally decided to end this is that you can now focus your mental and emotional energies on them instead of on trying to fix things with your STBX. They are people who will actually benefit from and appreciate your care, so those energies won't be wasted this time.

When your children are grown, you'll long since have stopped caring about your wife (you don't believe me but it's the truth), but your children will still be close to you, if you're the sane and solid parent who gets them cleanly through this.

[This message edited by morningglory at 11:23 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

Mate sorry this has hit you so hard. Keep your chin up.

About time you kicked her out though.

I’m truly sorry. Please realize, however, that you haven’t lost your best friend. Best friends don’t stab one another in the back.

I am so sorry. I cannot imagine the pain and anger you must feel. She has treated you terribly.

It’s time for her to move out. Focus on yourself and your kids. Don’t traumatize them any more than they already have been. Hell, don’t traumatize yourself by engaging with a master liar/manipulator any more than you have to in order to initiate and complete divorce proceedings.

Take care of yourself, buddy. Be kind to yourself.

I'm really glad that you finally got the truth of the situation, I'm sure your spidy senses were telling you there is more, and now you have that.

I hope you can get some solid rest, and start moving forward with healing, and protecting those kids.

(((hurthalo)))

I am so fuckin sorry my friend.

Couple things - your ww is apparently a very manipulative and calculating sort so please be VERY careful going forward. Keep a VAR on you whenever you're around her. Do this for your own protection.

And you know this, but no more of this in front of your kids okay? I thankfully didn't have kids with mine, but I can only imagine this shit is a million times harder when there's children involved and you have to just put the emotional devastation away for periods of time. You didn't deserve this in any way, shape, or form, but they doubly so don't deserve this. Their mom is clearly out to lunch on her priorities, so be their rock right now. They need you more then they ever have.

Being accused of being emotionally distant (was I? I don't recall being so?) and that it is affecting the marriage while she's devoting time to another relationship....the sheer audacity is breath-taking. I would suggest that no matter how emotionally available I was, she would have cheated anyway.

Their audacity is crazy yeah? But this right here is it - even IF you were "emotionally distant", even if you were the worst husband ever (which you are not), even if anything.... she wanted to cheat and she did. Her cheating had NOTHING to do with YOU - it is all about her brokenness and her bullshit.

Divorce sucks. It is the death of the life you thought you had and it is normal and okay to grieve that loss. But you know what sucks worse? Staying with someone who doesn't value and cherish you. Divorce sucks for a while - staying with someone like this sucks forever. You're gonna get through this and life being free of her nonsense is gonna be better and sweeter then you can even fathom right now, I promise you. Hang in there and get it done with as quickly and amicably as possible.

Don't really post anything on these forums, though reading through them did help me immensely when I as going through my turmoil a number of years ago.

As an ex ADF member myself (discharged approx 10 years ago after serving my 20) one thing that was always highly frowned upon was infidelity between serving members. If things are still the same these days, its well worth speaking to the local padre from your wife's brigade as from what I have seen first hand, they will literally bring the wrath of god down on the AP. Have seen a few careers ended due to this happening.

Other than that I cant offer you advice anywhere near as good as the rest of the people in this forum, but just wish you all the best no matter what path you take.

Thank you so much team, I feel better today; I've barely cried once. It's the grabbing for the empty ring finger or seeing a message from her as 'Wife' in my phone that hurts. I went to tell her something today and realised she wasn't here. I'll get used to it.

You are all right of course; she will do this to her next partner as well. Guaranteed. I'm expecting a call from her parents at some stage; my guess is that they are absolutely mortified with the current situation. FIL is a pastor and her Mum is very prim and proper. My Mum also just got here and I am feeling so much better just having another adult here.

Already I feel a slight weight has lifted; I no longer need to worry about her infidelity.

I think today was the anger phase of grief; hopefully I dodge depression and just accept it now. My youngest (5) actually bounded up to me today and said, 'everything has worked out how it has meant to Daddy'...and promptly skipped off.

Sagely advice!

On the other plus side, a good friend has told me that his absolute glamour of a friend has asked if I am single after we spent a 30th birthday a few years ago seated next to each other by chance. I'm not even thinking about remotely seeing anyone in the near future, but it's already nice to see what the future might hold.

Um ... recovery takes a lot longer than anyone thinks it should. You've started, but don't worry if you experience cycles of grief, anger, etc. This is a big trauma and a big loss.

I urge you to see a good D attorney as soon as you can. It's the best way to protect yourself.

Have you changed the name attached to her phone number?

Even though you knew this could be coming, as CT says, no one can be prepared for the reality.

It's the grabbing for the empty ring finger or seeing a message from her as 'Wife' in my phone that hurts. I went to tell her something today and realised she wasn't here. I'll get used to it.

I bought myself a new ring for my ring finger cus I did that too. And once we separated, I changed his name in my phone (mine was 'Idiot cheating fecking arsehole' - I had no other 'I' names in my phone so it made it so there was no chance of accidental dialing). Changing his name helped me remember who I was talking to when he would call.

You will get used to it, but it will sting for a while. Is all part of the process.

Brother;

Your subconscious just couldn’t let it go and now it was proven correct. So sorry.

Strength to you during this period of your life.

Unfortunately there is more infidelity with STBX.

A EA for months after consummation on the training course and the excuse of one time whilst drunk, nah fuck that. She is just Trickle Truthing here. There is more infidelity. She is just trying to control your reaction and that’s all. Not trying to save you pain, just her face.

Priority here are the children and you. You should get tested and start the D process. There is no reason to wait for more damaging information about her further conquests of Australia’s finest.

Remember she can pay you child support as you can better parent due to WW’s duty or travel for her service requirements.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 3:18 AM, Tuesday, July 12th]

I know conventional wisdom says you shouldn't rush into anything. I'm going to swarve abit.

When I was 16 I took a really good shot in a boxing match, broke my nose and messed up my front tooth. I gave up boxing at 18 to chase my main dream. Got that tooth fixed, it bothered me often, had pain but dealt with it because I wanted to keep my tooth. Again in my mid 20's I got that tooth fixed. Still painful, still preventing me from eating certain foods. Finally in my 30's I got that fuckin thing pulled and got an implant. After the discomfort, short lived, I kept asking myself what the hell took me so long.

Maybe an odd analogy 🤔, but this isn't new for you, its something you've been struggling with for a decade. Once you remove that painful piece from your life you may be ready to move on much quicker than you realize.

I would make this woman who inquired about your status a friend.

On a personal note, when I divorced I dated quick, and it and I was a train wreck. Cried like a baby the first time I had sex with another woman, and the second time. While my wifes affair had been over for awhile, it was new to me. And I hadn't had much time. You've had a decade.

Point being, don't automatically decide that your not ready because of conventional wisdom.

The fastest way to get past the pain is to accept it. There is probably a lot more dirt, but there is no reason to dig for it. Accept it all and then bury it where it belongs.

Your spouse was priming you to be a fool with that polyamourus stunt. You escaped a lot of years of misery.

Keep your head above water and do not fall. The important thing you should do now, is to recover.

[This message edited by 66charger at 4:15 AM, Tuesday, July 12th]

Your spouse was priming you to be a fool with that polyamourus stunt. You escaped a lot of years of misery

Very true. Imagine if you had believed and stayed, what the next DDay would have been like years from now, as an older person with many more years invested in the marriage. Look through SI and you'll find plenty of posts like that.

You dodged a bullet. You're still young and have the chance for a great new life. From your posts, it sounds like you're affluent and attractive, and you have sweet, healthy kids. You have a lot of good fortune and a lot of advantages. You'll find someone else and be happy again.

Get thorough pre-marital counseling before tying the knot again. Make sure she highly values monogamy and believes there is never any excuse for cheating, and that she doesn't believe in polyamory. Shared values matter.

[This message edited by morningglory at 2:28 PM, Tuesday, July 12th]