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Reconciliation :
What do I truly believe?

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 Livingingrief (original poster member #79723) posted at 11:00 PM on Wednesday, April 20th, 2022

There are some things my H says that I have a hard time believing. He had a 3 month long A with his friends wife. The sexual texting was most of his A. The A finally got physical. That same day it got physical, he says he cut it off. These are some things he says that I don't believe..
He said that as soon as they finished having sex, he felt this disgusting feeling come over him. He said he regretted it in that moment. I dont believe him because a month after that is when I caught them texting again. I literally walked in and seen the messages on his phone. They haunt me to this day. He was telling her the sex was so good and he wanted her again yet today he says that it was all a lie. He says he didn't really want to have sex with her again at all. How am I supposed to believe that?
Another thing is he admitted to masturbation while thinking of her a her a few times. He said that as soon as he would finish, he would feel disgusted. If he felt disgusted with himself after that then why in the world would he go and actually do the real thing.
He also says that all the sexual things he said to her during the A were complete bull. He said that the words ment nothing. He said things like " I can't control it, I have to have you". How can he expect me to believe that he didn't find her irresistible if he was telling her those things. He says today that it was all like a game( whatever that means). I honestly feel like he ment everything he said at the time but he denies that.
Can anyone give me insight or help me understand?

posts: 55   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2021
id 8730813
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CaptainRogers ( member #57127) posted at 11:48 PM on Wednesday, April 20th, 2022

Can anyone give me insight or help me understand?

Dopamine.

There is research showing increased levels similar to that of an addict. From a hormonal level, the WS is an addict. The rush of dopamine gives immediate pleasure while the logical part of their brain says "that wasn't OK".

Once the dopamine has worn off, the craving for it takes over (like an addict) and they search for their next "high".

Sad but true.

Our MC just went through all of that with Mrs. Cap a couple weeks ago.

BS: 42 on D-day
WW: 43 on D-day
Together since '89; still working on what tomorrow will bring.
D-Day v1.0: Jan '17; EA
D-day v2.0: Mar '18; no, it was physical

posts: 3233   ·   registered: Jan. 27th, 2017   ·   location: The Rockies
id 8730820
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 12:51 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

It’s not complicated; he is trying to save his ass. He knows that if he admitted that he enjoyed the sex, continued to have sex with her, and craved being with her again, you might not be able to live with that.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 737   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8730828
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 1:15 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

Polygraph

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8730832
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DailyGratitude ( member #79494) posted at 2:01 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

I agree that polygraph is necessary
I wouldn’t believe my spouse if i were in your shoes.
It’s hard to believe that two people who are physically attracted to each other can stop having sex after just once.
And continue sexting.
Yeah, not likely.
Not knowing will eat you alive
Get him to do a polygraph for your sanity
Good luck

Me: BW mid 50’s
Him: WH late 50’s
Marrried 25 years
Dday: EA 2002
PA 9/2021
Divorce 10/2021 (per wh’s request)
WH left to be with AP

posts: 217   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2021   ·   location: Connecticut
id 8730842
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 3:14 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

What Bluerthanblue said.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6345   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8730858
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Notthevictem ( member #44389) posted at 3:19 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

Hmmm.

I'm gonna suggest a different approach.

Let's say I came to your house and pooped on your floor.

It could be I wanted to, as a joke. Maliciously laughing when I left.

It could be I couldn’t control my bladder. I knew it might hapoen, but took no precautions.

It could be something I ate or a medical problem. I knew and had prepared but not enough.

It could be I was punched in the gut and the person who punched me is really to blame.

Problem is... there's still shit on the floor.

BH: Me 37 WW: Her 41DDAY Mar 2014 Washington StateWidowed - breast cancer

posts: 13420   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014   ·   location: Washington State
id 8730859
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jailedmind ( member #74958) posted at 6:17 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

It’s called the fog for a reason. When I was still talking to my brother in-law and he was full on in his affair I went down to see him and stayed with him to try and talk some sense into him. He told me he had sex with his AP and then went outside and puked. I think it was a combination of his guilt and religious upbringing that brought that on but he continued the affair until his eventual divorce. My wife was no different when she was in her affair. She literally lied to my face when first confronted. And yet she continued in her affair. It’s like a drug addiction to them. They need thier next fix. And they won’t stop until they get it. Most affairs fizzle out in three to six months. My wife’s to my knowledge was in the three to four month range. It helped that the AP went out of country for three weeks which seemed to bring my wife out of the fog faster. But she in no way understood the gravity of what she did until well after D day. The mental anguish you go through now is akin to abuse. There will be no reasoning with them. They literally need to hit rock bottom. When or if the affair fizzles out they will go on a huge downward spiral as their body and mind tries to adjust to the dopamine swings. I am sorry your going through this. Trying to get the truth or understand them while they are in limerence, the fog or whatever they want to call thier affair will confound, frustrate and exasperate any reasonable person. You just can’t fix stupid. You simply have to wait until stupid bottoms out. Some never do. It’s a shitty experience to watch someone you love destroy thier life and yours. Our therapist called it "fools gold" Because they actually think they have something special. Until they figure out they don’t.

posts: 107   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2020
id 8730880
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 8:21 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

It’s like the cheater is 2 different people.

A lying cheating jerk who will do or say anything during the affair to continue the emotional euphoria they get from the AP.

And then there is the remorse (true remorse for some) after Dday.

It is illogical. It doesn’t make sense.

It’s like the spouse we knew transforms into someone or something else. I honestly thought my H started using drugs or was having a breakdown during his affair. Turns out it was a mid life crisis affair.

She was new. She was "exciting". She was what he thought he wanted.

My take in all this is this: while my H truly regrets his affair and attempt to D me, it doesn’t discount his selfish behavior and mean nasty treatment of me during the affair.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8730888
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 8:23 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

I also don’t buy the "sex meant nothing" routine either. That’s a crock of crap.

The cheaters pursue the AP because they get something out of it — sex, ego boost, thrill ….whatever.

The cheater knowingly and often is calculating in their pursuit.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8730889
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 Livingingrief (original poster member #79723) posted at 8:32 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Based on the evidence I found plus talking to the AP, they definitely only had sex once. My H cut if off as soon as he left from her because he said he felt so nasty and he didn't want to do this anymore. I just have a hard time believing the stuff he tells me. Like I mentioned, he said he felt nasty when he would masturbate while thinking of her after he was done but then turned around and actually had sex with her. Why would he do that if he already felt gross?
He talked to her like she was irresistible yet he says he wasn't even attracted to her. Do I believe that everything he said was fake or did he mean what he said at the time?
I am having an extremely hard time believing I am special now because of what he said to her. He hasn't made me feel like he made her feel in years. Now I just feel second best. I read about dopemaine and the fog but when I try to talk to him about it, he just denies all of it. He denies he was addicted her. He won't talk about it and if he dies, all he says is he didn't have any feelings for her and he wasn't attracted to her. I feel like I am drowning in pain because he never wants to talk and I feel like he will never admit the truth to me. When I bring it up, he just gets angry and so I leave it be. It's been 2 years and it's still this way. Today I am always so sad because he risked everything to sleep with her but now he can't risk anything to save this relationship. Do I believe what he said to her while on the A or do I believe him now?

posts: 55   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2021
id 8733376
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 8:43 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

I’m sorry. I don’t think your issue is what he did versus how he felt during the affair.

I think it’s that he has not done enough to make amends for his behavior and try to repair the damage.

He doesn’t want to talk about it

He doesn’t make you feel special

He doesn’t put in any effort to help you heal

If you try discuss how you feel he gets angry

He could have had sex with her 500 times but if he had true remorse and you felt that, I think all would be in the past and you would be in a very different place.

Have you considered therapy for yourself? That could help YOU.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8733382
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 10:16 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Livingingrief,

I'm sorry that you find yourself struggling to understand your WS's logic and truthfulness. To be honest, trying to make sense of what is going on in the wayward mindset is a little like dropping a handful of wet spaghetti on the floor and trying to derive some meaning from how it landed and what shape it took. There is no logic to how wet noodles land on the floor, and that same lack of logic applies to WS's as well. You cannot make sense of something that never made sense to begin with. Sometimes a mess is just a mess.

To help you understand his thinking a little, lets talk about something other than infidelity for a moment. Let's talk about bodyweight instead. A lot of people struggle with their weight and their efforts to control it. For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that "Mary" is overweight. Her weight makes her feel bad about herself. It makes her feel ugly, and unwanted, and she often feels that people judge her not only by her looks, but also judge how smart she is, or how helpful she is, or what her interests are, and assume that anyone at her weight is stupid, lazy and only interested in food. After many years of feeling that way, Mary now sees herself the same way. She can't find a date and that makes her feel worse. She needs an extender buckle on the airplane and that makes her feel worse. Every time she's reminded of how her weight is making her life awful, it adds to the way she defines her own self-worth (or in this case, the complete lack thereof). She then feels worthless and ugly and stupid, just like everyone says. Pretty soon, two things happen.

The first thing that happens is that Mary self-soothes herself by overeating. Now stop and ask yourself, if someone is fat, and hates being fat, why in the world would they go get a tub of ice cream and eat it when they feel bad? It makes no sense. The ice cream is only going to make her fatter, right? But when we are hurting and traumatized, our brains don't think so logically. In fact, our brains often think in very illogical ways instead when we're hurting. Mary hates herself for being fat and hates herself more for grabbing the tub of ice cream and eating her feelings. But she does it anyway. She does it because the ice cream distracts her and makes her feel better for the moment. Bear in mind that we don't have to be talking about the world's best ice cream. If we are sad enough, we will eat crappy, grainy ice cream from 7-11 and hate every bite of it, but finish the tub anyway. And once we finish the tub, do we feel better? No, we feel even worse. And so we go buy more ice cream.

The comparison I'm trying to make here is that your husband could have felt gross and dirty for being with the AP, but still gone through the steps of what a relationship should look like with her, because that's his role to play in order to get what he wants. Ice cream is paid for in cash. The store needs cash, you need ice cream, and so a business arrangement is made. Each side gets what it needs from the other, as long as everyone plays their part. Infidelity is similar. Your husband needs to feel special, wanted, attractive, and desired. The AP is willing to fulfill those needs from him, but she has her own needs. She needs to feel special and wanted as well, attractive, and desired. So in order to get what he needs from her, your husband had to pay her price, which is to fill her needs. It has nothing to do with love or even feelings, and everything to do with getting needs met while trying to convince yourself that you're not a bad person in the process.

The thing is, socially speaking, making someone else feel special and attractive takes on a certain shape and behavior. Saying, "Hey asshole, you look pretty today" doesn't work. You have to fulfill the social norms and play the game. So instead you say, "Gosh, you're so pretty, you're my everything!". You don't have to mean it. You just have to say it. That's your role in the relationship, and it is how you entice the other person to respond in kind. The other benefit of all this "lovey-dovey" talk is that it helps the cheater to lie to themselves. Cheating is a gross and dirty business. It makes you feel awful. But you know what? If you allow yourself to believe the lie, and just tell yourself that your AP actually MEANS those lovely things they are saying to you, then you take some value and solace from that. Think of it as moving into the ice cream store so that you always have a full supply. You are still fat and gross and eating your feelings, but you don't care because you've set yourself up with a way to feel good anyway, even if it's artificial.

The second thing that happens is that Mary loses the ability to love or respect herself, and so she relies on the approval of others to make her feel good. Self-love is like oxygen. We need it to live and function. When we don't have it... well, it literally feels as if we are going to die. People who can't breathe will do ANYTHING to get air, and people who can't love themselves will do anything to get love from others. This state of mind can work out just fine for years and years for many people. But when things get tough and that supply of external love and validation begins to wane, the person falls apart instead. To be clear, I don't mean that they "get sad" or "feel lonely". That's what normal people do and feel, but most people love themselves to begin with and so they can recover and grow despite a lack of external approval. But a person who can't love themselves instead goes into a panic, and from there, to a place that I can only describe as "very dark and not completely sane".

Since they cannot love or sooth themselves, they instead choose to blame others for their anger and loss and hurt. It's their spouse's fault for not loving them enough. It's their family's fault for not being there enough for them. They find themselves hurting to the core and desperate to feel good, so they convince themselves that anything they need to do is justified somehow. If someone is starving, they might have to justify stealing a loaf of bread, and then blaming the people they stole the bread from for not giving it to them in the first place. That's how the WS mind works. They blame the people they hurt for their own pain, but because they can't value themselves, they also can't take accountability for themselves, so they double down on their pain being due to everyone but themselves.

Anyway, my long-winded response is merely to tell you this... you already know that your WS is lying (or has lied) to you. I think it is a misstep however to assume that he was "telling the truth" during the A. A liar is a liar is liar, and as long as he's a liar, then he was lying to everyone, including you, including the AP, and including himself. So if you can, try to stop seeing what he did during the A as "the truth" and see it instead as "more of the same lie, just told to someone else".

One last thing. None of this should ever be used as an excuse or justification for infidelity. Rather, by understanding what factors led up to it, it gives us choices about how to move forward, and it offers the WS a "first step" towards recovery if they can accept it and own it. We can't change what was. But we can gather the knowledge and tools we need to be better people in the future.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1269   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8733414
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 10:22 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

I think both things can be true: The WS wants to have sex with the AP and hates him/herself for it afterwards.

Why do they continue? Because it feels good until it doesn't. The guilt and self loathing subsides, the urge for the dopamine hit rises again and then it happens again. The longer it goes on, the less guilt and self loathing.

If it helps, my WS says the best part of his affair was the build up in between meet ups. The sexting, planning, anticipation, etc. The actual sex was ok, it was sex. And after orgasm, he claims, he always just wanted to leave and was no longer interested in even talking to her. Then more texts, more build up, more fantasy and he was right back in that hotel room.

I don't believe your WS was not attracted to her. Perhaps she wasn't physically his type but she provided SOMETHING he very much wanted. That doesn't mean he didn't hate himself after. Until he needed the hit again.

Let's face it, affairs are fun. They are exciting and exhilarating. And the most painful thing? Our spouses simply did not care about us in those moments. They just did not.

The crux for recovery is what does that mean to you going forward? Why didn't he care about you? What did he get from cheating that was soooo important he destroyed his own life for it? If the answers are found, by him, you are not safe. And we BS must all consider that the answer might just be: he doesn't love you enough.

posts: 165   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8733419
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Brew3x ( member #72052) posted at 12:18 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

He said that as soon as they finished having sex, he felt this disgusting feeling come over him. He said he regretted it in that moment


Idk maybe I’m an outlier here but think is certainly plausible.
I’ve done a lot of bad things in my life many that I’ve regretted immediately. On some level they know what they’re doing is wrong.

I also realize this is also a good amount of BS too.

posts: 243   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2019   ·   location: MA
id 8733446
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 Livingingrief (original poster member #79723) posted at 2:59 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

Daddy Dom,

I guess this is just something that bothered me because of how insecure I feel now. I don't feel special to him like he made her feel to him.
From what you wrote, it's making me think he was addicted to her. If he was addicted to her, that would make me feel even worse because he surely isn't addicted to me.
How does one move on from having to know that the man you loved had someone else on his mind for months? Will i ever feel like his one and only? Will I ever feel like I'm the only woman on his mind? Will I ever feel that feeling I once had when I knew I was everything to him. The misery I feel is worst than anything. Feeling worthless to him makes it worse.

posts: 55   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2021
id 8733470
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Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 11:10 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

it's making me think he was addicted to her. If he was addicted to her, that would make me feel even worse because he surely isn't addicted to me.

There was nothing special about the AP, right place at the right time. The rush is what he was seeking not the person necessarily. My WW is a personal trainer and bikini competitor. Fitness is her life but she chose an AP that was over weight, out of shape, and full gray hair. He played a role in her fantasy, and as soon she cleared the fog, she was disgusted by him. We have had many discussions and it was opportunity, he was divorced and willing to play a role.

You are better than both of them, if he doesn’t see it it’s his loss.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R
BH 55 WW 48 M 31 years, 4 kids 2 grown 2 grandkids

posts: 1380   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8733613
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 4:35 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Your WS is lying. Also, an AP is a completely unreliable witness in terms of bolstering your WS's claims. They clearly both lack morals and honesty, which is why they cheated, and she in particular has an interest in trying to please him. It isn't hard for them to get their post-discovery stories to align or agree in advance of discovery what they'd say if caught.

[This message edited by morningglory at 4:39 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733690
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