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Great response! That is the spirit.

You are worth it.

I hate to say it, anger always drives action. If you need some fuel to start, open up your wounds emotionally use the injustice you suffered to drive yourself for something better. You cried for yourself and no one else did. She cried for herself. Fight to stop Cruise from crying, which means, taking action. One step at a time.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 11:02 PM, Wednesday, January 19th]

Though he’s 21, the kid is still not on sure footing in life and needs stability and guidance to keep on a good path... It’s not terrible, but it still could go either way at this point... He was heart broken when I told him at the time that we may split... were splitting actually... I never told him the reason; just that it was happening... So yeah; I feel like it may break him and send him on the wrong path if it did happen...

This could be waaaay off, but have you thought that your current actions may be affecting his lack of focus? He may already know the reason for why you wanted to split, and when you did not, it confused him.

Well, awake at 4am again this morning, with almost instant thoughts of them together... Been the case for the last 2 years...almost like I’m dreaming of it and that’s what wakes me up... Often with some kind of song that pops up with it...Today happens to be the Wilson Phillips song "Release Me" that started looping on top of the visions...

I Listened to it as I was making coffee... They woulda been such the perfect words to say at the time... Can’t figure out why they didn’t come out...

I had told myself yesterday that I wouldn’t post again...Felt like I was just throwing burdens out there without doing much about it...

Anyhow, I don’t know what it is; Pseudo Therapy, a journal, a way of talking to myself, talking to someone without really doing so, but for some reason it relieves pressure of sorts by throwing these notes in the abyss...

I could have pretty much said these exact words at the time... Things woulda probs worked out different...

—Release me - Wilson Phillips—

I know that it's time for a change
Mmm but when that change comes
Will it still feel the same?

How many times have I tried to turn this love around?
I don't want to give up
But baby it's time I had two feet on the ground
Can you release me
Can you release me
Now that you're gone I can't help myself from wondering
Oh, if you'd have come down from your high
Would we've been all right?
Release me
Can you release me

Come on baby, come on baby
You knew it was time to just let go
'Cause we want to be free
But somehow it's just not that easy
Come on Darlin', hear me Darlin'
'Cause you're a waste of time for me
I'm trying to make you see
That baby you've just got to release me
Release me
Release me
I'm not going back to you anymore
Finally my weakened heart is healing though very slow
So stop coming around my door
'Cause you're not gonna find
What you're looking for

Come on baby, come on baby
You knew it was time to just let go
'Cause we want to be free
But somehow it's just not that easy
Come on Darlin', hear me Darlin'
'Cause you're a waste of time for me
I'm trying to make you see
That baby you've just got to release me

What is this power you've got on me
What is this power, Oh
What is it, What is it

Come on baby, come on baby
You knew it was time to just let go
'Cause we want to be free
But somehow it's just not that easy
Come on Darlin', hear me Darlin'
'Cause you're a waste of time for me
I'm trying to make you see
That baby you've just got to release me
Release me
Release me

@RocketRaccoon...
Regarding the kid... That’s it’s own other thread with it’s own story... I get your point, but I don’t believe that is the case... Not saying it’s not indirectly linked, but I don’t think it’s as you laid it out... though I appreciate the food for thought...

He’s a good kid, but he’s definitely been a handful to raise... Did and doing my best, but he’s fighting me all the way... Started in his early teens and been a roller since... And now drugs and so on are in the mix and not making it easier...

Anyhow, I won’t hijack this topic with that, but just felt like a bit of context was needed...

CruiseControl:

This is a good place to vent and work out your emotions and thoughts on your WW’s infidelity. Many have found journaling to be helpful as well. But as pointed out in earlier posts the goal of this site is to get out of infidelity. You have to figure out your own path on your own schedule. But you are still hurting from her betrayal and doing nothing long term will not help you heal. Keep moving forward to get out of infidelity however you define it R or D. But always value yourself. You deserve a faithful and devoted partner. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 12:17 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]

Anyhow, I won’t hijack this topic with that, but just felt like a bit of context was needed...

Don't worry about hijacking the thread, as it is YOUR thread, but thanks for clearing that up.

Anyway, I do hope that you are starting to open your eyes, and actually seeing things, rather than looking. One of the greatest disservice that you can do to yourself, is to ignore/rugsweep such a traumatic event in your life, as you are now realising.

Trauma is like a pothole in your driveway. When it first appears, you can still avoid it, and think 'I'll repair that tomorrow.'

As time goes by, the pothole becomes bigger, but your vehicle can still avoid it, so you leave the repairs for another day. Then a rainstorm comes along (trigger), and the pothole becomes a large sinkhole that is beyond your ability to repair, and your vehicle is now stuck, as you are not able to drive out.

So, in your case, your WWs A has been left unattended for so long that you are not able to repair this yourself. You will need to engage an IC, not MC (as your M is not really functional in its present state). Sort out your (and your WWs) individual issues first.

You've already gotten to much advice, I'm hesitant to pile on. But I'm not sure anyone has touched on what I believe is your wisest course so I'll chime in.

1. Everyone handles these horrible situations based on our own prior life experiences so none of us should say how you should have reacted or how you should act going forward. That is for you to decide and our role as moral support is to help guide you until you figure it out. And you will - you're a smart guy and you have all the required moral codes so you'll get there.

2. Because of the above, I think the important thing for YOU to do is work on yourself. I think individual counseling with a trauma counselor would be helpful for you. (keep in mind that some are better than others and if you like the first one, try another and another, until you get one you relate to). Also, read things that apply to you and only you, those who are traumatized, broken, hurt, mistreated, abused, manipulated. And try to learn ways to improve those areas of yourself that you're able to identify as worthy of improvement. Avoid reading things that apply to the WW; you can't fix her, you can only fix yourself.

3. IMHO, #2 is THE single most important thing you can do because I don't think it's possible to address the issues in your marriage until you become a whole person. Because even if you and your WW could sit down tonight and have a talk that solved all your problems, you are not a fully whole person right now; you have issues that you will either fix or that will get worse (sorry, staying the same is not possible cuz you've opened Pandora's box) and therefore, as time goes by, you'll either get emotionally healthy or emotionally worse, leaving any premature agreement with your WW meaningless.

So, logically, it seems to me that you should work on YOU. Hopefully, she'll work on her and then the 2 of you can work out what would be the best solution for your relationship. And, although it sounds crazy, it's also possible (not likely but still, possible) you'll work on you but she won't work on her but you'll be emotionally healthy enough to stay in the marriage with a broken person. Your love for that broken person might be enough if you're emotionally whole. And from what you've written, I can see where that's a possibility for you. Remember, what works for you is what you say works for you.

My recommendation for a book would be Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. If that doesn't speak to you, maybe try Games People Play by Eric Berne. And since you mention that drugs are an issue with your son, I highly encourage you to try AlAnon; I realize that with Covid, the in person meetings aren't as available but you can do them online and by Zoom and of course, there's a wealth of material you could read. It can help you navigate your son's issues without damaging your soul.

4. Keep in mind that you don't have to solve your problems overnight, there's no rush here. You're content living in the family home, you like being there for your son, it's financially OK for the moment and while there's discomfort and awkwardness on occasion, it's mostly pleasant enough.

Good luck to you.

A note on Games People Play: It's a quick read, and it's available for free download at various places on the 'net.

It was a best seller for a long, long time in the mid-60s.

CC, I was in a very similar situation about 10 yrs ago. (WW had a 12 month PA with a former boyfriend). You will eventually be able to forgive her caustic betrayals, but I promise you that unless you are a far better man than I am, you will never trust her to the degree one partner needs to trust another for true intimacy. It's not that you can't have a good life with her, but you are forsaking a great life that's possible with an honest & unselfish partner. Some waywards, seeing the pain they caused, are able to reverse course and rebuild character and integrity. These are the unicorns in my opinion.

At a minimum, you might work with a therapist (I suggest Depth Psychology) to get your arms around the entirety of the relationship ... with yourself and with your WW. The mind movies are a direct result of the rugsweeping. You will have to assert your power in creating boundaries that work for you with the understanding that they might be deal breakers for your WW. Here on SI, it's called letting go of the outcome.

Remember when Maya Angelou said "When people show you who they are, believe them." You are carrying a very heavy load at the moment. I had to draw some very hard boundaries with my WW, which she aggressively resisted to test my commitment. You have some tough decisions to make and I wish you well. Kindest Regards-

As mentioned before, thank you you all for taking the time to provide insight, input, advice and food for thought... If I’m gonna be honest, some were harder to read than others, but definitely appreciated and considered none the less...

That said, the last few posts definitely resonated with me... I’m realizing more and more that I might be a little broken from all the beat downs that life has given me... Don’t get me wrong; I’ve had a good life, and I’m very content with it, understanding that some have it way worst... I did open up a Pandora’s box in posting what I posted, and it’s apparent to me that things won’t change unless I change things and really take my step forward for it to happen... I know and understand that; The how is what I need to figure out... : )

One thing I need to wrap my head around is to talk to someone and get advice... As I mentioned before, I grew up very independently... My adoptive parents were good people and gave me a good life, but really weren’t there to raise me... In growing up that way, it’s made me very independent and closed off... A very private person...

I’ve rarely shared any of my issues, problems or challenges with anyone... Really ever... I’ve learnt to rely on myself, my instincts, my thoughts; beliefs... For the most part that’s worked out for me... I did make mistakes along the way; learnt from them and applied the Len rings to my next challenge and went from there...

As it turns out, this situation is one of those where my instincts were wrong... Just so happens that it was the biggest event in my life, but the combination of my frame of mind at the time and covid on top messed it all up...

That’s where it’s making tricky for me now... I didn’t expect to still have these daily feelings 2 years later... I really didn’t... My decision at the time made sense to me... the discussions we had made sense...

I couldn’t foresee the future as it worked out... But this is where we’re at... I’m working through it... Though it’s been 2+ years, reality is, I’m kind of on Day 5, or however many days since I started this thread...

It’s confusing, it’s hard, it’s as the kids say these days, a mind Fck!! : )

To go back to being so independent, closed off and talking someone about all of this... It makes sense, but something that I’m struggling myself to being able to do...

Honestly, I’m scared to hear the reality of things... Essentially what I’ve been told on here several times... to paraphrase " what the "F" are you doing?? Get outta there" ...

Fact is, I love this person; I love taking care of her... I love the life we built together... I don’t want to be faced with a reality that I should throw it away... that’s scary to me...

But you’re right; I do need to work on myself... to figure out who I am and what I want...

As I mentioned in another of my long posts, I won’t re-read it before posting... I hope it flows as my head thought it did... : )

Again; thank you to all of you for taking the time to provide advice ... It really is appreciated; and all of it is being considered...

Ps: random comment... I’m still listening to that release me Wilson Phillips song as I’m typing this... lol... It’s sad but uplifting at the same time... Kinda feel like the really new "just found outs" could benefit from it... though there really is no perfect way to handle these things... You just don’t know what you don’t know...

Anyhow; hope this all makes sense...

Have a good weekend all...

The bottom line for every betrayed spouse is that you either (a) continue to live with what your cheater is giving you, or (b) leave the marriage. It really does come down to that.

But then in every marriage, whether there is cheating or no cheating, every day is a decision to continue being married to the spouse, flaws and all, or divorce. You can't force your spouse to change, nor trick them into it. They may change because they want to, but you can't and shouldn't try to force them.

The difference with infidelity is one of degree. The trauma, humiliation, emasculation, etc., is acute and massive. The marriage/divorce dialectic becomes a much larger presence.

I always suggest to people like you to imagine a dialogue with yourself in 20 years, or 30. Assume for purposes of this dialogue that what you're getting now is what you'll get for the next 20-30 years. Will older you thank younger you for staying married, or for getting divorced?

I also suggest that raw, brutal honesty is often the best. It's scary because you may find out your WW actually wants out of the marriage, but feels guilty asking for it because she cheated. I do think it's better to sort this type of thing out sooner rather than later.

Cruise, no person in this life can care more about you than you. You are the steward of your precious life. You have an independent mindset from growing up, and you sound like a kind, patient, and compassionate person. That is amazing given your early life experience as it sounds to me. You are undeniably undeserving of your spouses behavior both before and after the A. I would politely suggest that you consider what is meaningful to you, and move in that direction, to a better place with or without your spouse. Without doubt, from what I read, status quo is not a path that is looking out for you. My X made me realize I had to look out for me, she would not. A "normal" loving and caring spouse won't make you feel that way.

I hope all the best for you, and I appreciate that you are posting as you validate the feelings of a BS, whether posting or not. Know that here most reading will be in your corner, even if they don't post not knowing what to say.

All the best to you.

Look up the Sunk Cost Fallacy. To me, that’s how I perceive your attitude right now.

The findings about men and women, and their support systems, routinely find that wives use relatives and friends and men use their wives. If your personality, childhood, life experiences have made you too protective of your feelings to share hopes, dreams, sadness, worthlessness then you have not utilized her help. If you tried and were rebuffed because of things in her life then you have been truly alone. That is why we are here but you need therapy with someone who can help you uncover all the potholes in your life. Btw, I think that is a genius analogy. I suggest EMDR always because it is designed to be short and intense. It uncovers forgotten traumas. Those that are so hidden to you that you need help uncovering them and taking their power away. They are what keep all of us on a never ending treadmill. Finding those hidden issues helps get us off.

Honestly, I’m scared to hear the reality of things...

Start telling yourself, 'You only think you're scared.' Looking inside and finding things you wish were different IS scary until you do it. Then you'll wonder why you waited so long.

Really, you have all the strength you need.

The bottom line for every betrayed spouse is that you either (a) continue to live with what your cheater is giving you, or (b) leave the marriage.

All other things being equal, there is a very important 3rd option: take action to change the relationship into one that serves both of you. That is impossible or not worth the effort in many relationships. Taking action to change the relationship may not exactly be welcomed by you partner, and that may result in ending the relationship. IMO, though, if 2 people can't build a relationship that serves both partners, the relationship probably should end.

IMO, you have used your power to choose passivity. You have the option to make a different choice - you may need help to do so, but you can find the help you need. You may need to develop new strengths, but the ability to do that is in you. You are, I would bet, immensely stronger than you realize.

My bet is that your strength brought you to this point of truly noticing the effects of your WS's cheating. Take heart. Have faith in yourself to heal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:09 PM, Saturday, January 22nd]

I’ve rarely shared any of my issues, problems or challenges with anyone... Really ever... I’ve learnt to rely on myself, my instincts, my thoughts; beliefs

You sound just like how my now deceased WH was when he was still alive. I think you have trust issues from early on.

Because of my now deceased
WH upbringing, he always felt the need to please and to try and make others like him, to see him as valuable and worthy because he was also made to believe that he wasn't worthy... being brushed aside, family dynamics, too busy, tired, old parents. They and his brothers didn't have much time for him and they also were extremely abusive, so he learned to rely on himself. Problem with this and as you can see, it doesn't work.

As years passed, I realized that he was very good at molding himself to others and their points of views, just like a chameleon would do because somewhere along the way he lost his individuality. I feel like this is you too... wanting to please at all costs.

I think when you had that period of separation you were beginning to become your true authentic self but also was pulled back into the pleasing role again (when your WW decided she wanted you back) without much thought because it's been your comfort zone for a very long time, your go to. It didn't matter that your WW brought you so much unhappiness, she wanted you back! Plan B. But I also understand that you had many reasons to not leave the marriage.

I think what others are in essence trying to tell you is that you don't have to leave your marriage to become a healthy mature adult individual... at this point in time, you are engaging in a very unhealthy relationship with your WW, especially because at this time she has no desire to help you heal or to look at who she really is if she is even capable.

My suggestion is to take a moment for yourself now and then, go to the gym, go down to the garage, listen to music, work on your car. Little steps. Plan a few hours out with your son or whoever but not your wife. Baby steps to independence and more clarity and to gain your footing again.

Your WW has hurt you deeply and it seems to me that she still hasn't done much of anything to help you to heal. And this is why you still are in limbo and continue to spin your wheels. And besides, she seems to believe that there is nothing wrong about her probably for the same reasons you struggle to have independence, because she also needs outside validation from others to tell her that she is valuable. If she doesn't want to get help and she doesn't want to help you heal, and especially if she gets mad at you when you bring your pain up, you may need to take things upon yourself to work towards your healing. And I understand this may be hard for you to do but in order for you to find your identity and integrity again, something in you needs to give and to work towards change.

I had kind of lost the track of this thread. I went back and re-read your OP. A few things that seem to have gotten lost in the discussion:

I found out that in the previous years, that she had slept with at least 3 other guys; one of them being my best friend.... So I’m second guessing the low libido that she says she has... ( And no; it has nothing to do with my appearance or shape... not to brag, but I check the boxes...)

This thread isn't just about the one affair. She has been a serial cheater, for years, including fucking your best friend, and she has denied you sex while cheating with other men. Friend, what more could you possibly need to decide that being married to her is toxic?

To make matters worse, during the summer, after she came back, that same friend that I mentioned earlier was over having drinks with us... yes, the one she slept with years ago... We were downstairs... I came up to get a drink... As I was walking down I could here them talking... I stayed at the bottom of the steps and listened in... they were talking about how hot it was when they did it... I peeked in and he was rubbing her back... and she was allowing him... I stepped in, told him to go... I didn’t make a big deal of it with my wife, but I was hurt...

To my point above, if you needed anything more, here it is. Literally grabbing you by the hair on the back of your head and smashing your face into the shit sandwich.

I just don’t know what to do anymore... She controls everything and is seems to be happy, so long as we do everything that she considers what happy couples do... What she wants to do... I’m so bored... And frustrated.... I almost regret taking her back

Friend, in fact, you do know what to do. You just don't want to do it.

Fact is, I love this person; I love taking care of her... I love the life we built together... I don’t want to be faced with a reality that I should throw it away... that’s scary to me...

Gently now, you seem to have anchored your self-worth/identity to your WW. Not a good thing, as you value your WWs needs way above your own.

It seems to have gotten to such a stage that it has become destructive.

Cruise, your WW left the marriage a long time ago. That she is capable of this level of betrayal is shocking and really sad. The scene that you describe with your former friend and the back rub in your own home is so disrespectful to you, your son, and to her! You're a good man, father, and husband. You've tried so hard to save your marriage and put up with so much. Give yourself some credit. The answers are within you. You'll know what to do when it's time for you to act on those decisions. In the meantime, do some things for yourself. You'll figure it out. You have stayed true to yourself during this nightmare (which is a challenge for anyone), but don't allow her to destroy you. She's not worth it. No one is. And, try to not take it so personal. She probably would have made these same destructive decisions no matter who her husband and son would have been.

CC, you’ve received a lot of good advice. I specifically want to address your fears. There is a saying, "Fear is not real. Fear is simply the product of thoughts you create. Danger is very real, but fear is a choice." In that sense, I believe you should focus on the dangers to you and your son and take action to remove them.

As is often said here, there are two ways out of infidelity, and the paths run parallel initially. Take care of yourself, do the 180, and watch your WS. As you continue down the path her behavior will dictate whether R is possible or D is necessary.