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Hi CruiseControl,
First, please ignore posts that don't serve you. Obviously, people speak from their own perspectives and, in my opinion, some people confuse shaming with motivational pep talks. I cringe when I read that type of advice.

So, please take what is helpful and let the rest roll off you. With that in mind, you are (obviously) invited to use or ignore my advice.

I'd like to get back to some of the things you said in your initial posts on this thread.

I’m so bored... And frustrated.... I almost regret taking her back... I had moved on... I really had...

The frustration is building more and more every day. For me, It still feels like it was yesterday that it all happened...Reality is, I just can’t get over it...

It seems like you are realizing that you are not content with the way things have turned out and you have not healed from the betrayal.

It also seems like your wife isn't willing to discuss the betrayal, own the destruction it caused, or take on the work to become safe or heal the relationship--since you mention that she gets angry if you bring it up.

So, as other posters have pointed out, you can't make her change or do this work or make her be willing to discuss the affairs.

So, you can only make decisions for yourself.

It is concerning your relationship dynamic is heavily tilted her way. And you are clearly recognizing this.
She decides when to leave and when to come back (after she sees you are detaching).

I slowly started feeling better... started working out, listening to music, enjoying life without any kind of pressure... I also started making arrangements for separation... That seemed to make it real for her, because at that point, she started contacting me regularly and keeping tabs on what I was doing.

I’m just on cruise control; just being what she wants me to be... doing what she wants to do, watching what she wants to watch, seeing who she wants to see..

Consider individual counseling for just you.

You deserve peace and joy. You have lots of years ahead to experience much more satisfaction.
Perhaps IC would help clarify your thinking and your choices.

Your post acknowledges
that you aren't happy, but you could be.

What do you need to do to make that happen?

Hello all,
First off, thank you for all the replies and insight... It’s appreciated, but overwhelming to a certain extent... :) I’ll try to touch on as many responses in one and go from there...

So for one; Getting angry... I have been... But that said, I’ve mostly been disappointed, embarrassed, confused, frustrated and felt helpless at times... That said, I did have very forward and serious discussions with her at the time, since and even do to this day... As a matter of fact, this post and randomly enough watching (sex/life) on Netflix this week , which randomly popped up on my feed triggered emotions for me this week and we had a talk/argument Friday night on the matter that lasted over 2 hours...Though I am to the point with her and tell her straight up when I feel she’s being selfish, I don’t see the point in being "angry" and shouting and throwing insults and so on... I don’t see that as constructive...

Quick point, any and all of my decisions has nothing to do with religion; I’m not that type... Not that I’m against it, but for me that vow portion of it has nothing to do with anything...

I do see her as a good person; she’s hard to follow emotionally sometimes, like I told her Friday, it’s like she’s had 200 personalities since we’ve been together and I just don’t know who the real one is.... But she does have a kind heart and cares for people in her surroundings... I’m more reserved and don’t mind being actually enjoy being on my own; so from that stand point, of having a social life with couples and stuff, she’s been kind of the Ying to my Yang... When things are good, we’re a good fit... We really are the life of anywhere we go and I get the right personality on that given night...

So, what’s next... we’ve built a nice life together... For one, when we met, I was in a really bad way mentally... I was lost and felt like no one wanted me... In retrospect, I think I might have been in depression at the time... She came into to my life and accepted me as I was and by making me feel loved and important, built up my confidence and self worth... She brought me back to life... And potentially prevented me from stopping it early... The thoughts were there at the time... So in a sense, I owe her my literal life, but also, through hard work and me helping start her business at the time, we’ve built a really nice life together... we’re not rich by any means, but we lack of nothing; we have a nice little house in a nice neighborhood, have a nice group of friends and so on, so though I did do my part during the build up of the business by taking care of the house, the kids home work, the meals and so on while I was also working on my career, I do recognize that we built what I consider almost my perfect life together as a team... That’s something that I couldn’t and can’t just throw away like that...

Reality, is, If we were to breakup, I really don’t see myself going through the whole thing again... Meaning, the dating, meeting the parents, building a new life with someone else... not That I only see a life with her; but the point is, I’d stay single... I really would... I’d date and "have fun" but I don’t see myself committing like that to anyone else ever... Reality is, if not for the kid, that woulda probably been my route from the get go...

I grew up in an adoptive family, mostly raised by nannies ( not really in the rich way, but my parents ran there businesses and were not home a lot... They would take in younger ladies that needed a place to stay and part of the deal was them being the nannies)...

Anyhow, All this to say, I don’t really need or ask for much in life... I just wanna be happy and comfortable... But more than anything for my family to be happy and comfortable... I try to be a good person, a good husband and father... I do all the little things like telling her she’s pretty every day, bring her coffee on her night stand before she wakes up, help my son become a good man ... which is its own all other story cause he’s fighting me all the way in me trying to do so but hey; it is what it is... (as a matter of fact, that’s been my motto almost since D’day)....

Ok, I’ve been typing for a while now... I won’t re-read what I wrote, but I hope I touched on some of the replies and gave perspective... All that said, I have stood up for myself in various ways along the way... It doesn’t always get across or understood by my wife, but I continue trying every day... It’s just that she doesn’t get the hints sometimes or even the upfront messages, but I keep hope that some day she will...

This will be an odd way to finish this for now, but an example of my way to try and get through to her is that example I gave earlier... about that Netflix show (sex/life) having been a trigger for me this week... After our talk Friday, I explained to her that it had been my trigger this week... I keep telling her from time to time that I have "flashes" of them together and so on... that show is almost like she could read my mind to understand what I mean... In her position, the first thing I woulda done was to watch it to try and understand... I’m kinda disappointed that she hasn’t... I’m currently in the garage working on the kid’s car, so she has all the time I’m the world to do so... Those are the kind of stupid things that have been getting to me lately...

Alwright; that will be enough for now... My thumbs are starting to seize up... I’ll leave it at this for now...

Again, thank you all for your feedback... I’ll check in later and try to provide more insight on what’s what and where things are at...

Ps: I’m new to this world, so though I can decipher most of them, sometimes, I have no idea what the RA’s , CI’s and all the shortcut acronyms mean... :)

Have a good day all...

Hey CC
Sorry that you are in this long term mess.
For some reason she has decided for now that she wants to be with you, how long since the breakup with the millionaire? Did he find a new sidepiece or did your WW wife end it on her own?

Since you know about 4 or 6 of her affairs there are probably a few short term or local on the road ONS here and there you aren't aware of.
That's just how she is wired, banging friends is a pretty big slap in your face.
And you are wired differently, you are trying to hold it together and that's fine with her (renewal of vows) until she is bored and has another affair.
Yoyu need to try to step up for yourself the first step is go to bed when you want to, doesn't matter if it's 5 minutes or an hour. That's easy...just say "Ok, hun I'll be right there and finish what you are doing...on you schedule.

Good luck and turn off the Cruise Control and take back some of the power in your relationship.

all I am going to say here is to re-read your first post.

It shows the damage.

If your best friend wnt through this, how would you advise him ?

The follow your own advice.

Affair plus going out with your f
best friend and doing him.... I think you should cut her out of your life but I will leave this thread and let you listen to the others.

She has failed you bro

Has she shut you off again? Even partially? Do you want to keep living like this?

Going to be a fast one here.

Yes, you are passive, and am not too sure if you recognize it in yourself or not.

A few examples of the passive behaviour:
- Your WW dictates what time you go to sleep.
- Your 21 year old son disrespects you, but you fix his car for him.
- Your social circle all know about her infidelity, and yet you do not cut them out.

Then you were depressed for a while, and your WW lifted you out of the depression, and I suspect, you have linked your self-worth on her, hence the passivity.

Then, you vocalize to her that the show, sex/life, triggered you, but do not ask her to watch it, but expect her to want to be curious for and about what triggered you, yet she does not, and you fester with annoyance because of that.

Another point, from the sounds of things, it seems you are content to rugsweep the A, by not addressing it, and your WW trying to pretend as if nothing happened. Even got you to recommit to her by renewing your vows (for whatever they are worth. She probably asked for it, so that she can say she never broke her vows, without mentioning that the previous set...).

To cut a long story short, I think IC would be good for both you and your WW (and even maybe your son). There is a lot of luggage that needs to be sorted out.

I wonder if the OBS, of these other men, would agree that your wife has a kind heart?

She's an unremorseful serial cheater,who controls every aspect of your life.

You say you've been angry. Sir, you need to find that anger,and hold on to it. At this point, it may be the only thing that creates change.

It’s an extremely rare – nearly unicorn-level rare – where a betrayed spouse behaves decisively and without mistake from d-day and onwards. The doubt, confusion, indecisiveness… that’s the norm. the expected. Your situation – where you are now – isn’t unique and your posts indicates you realize your situation is neither ideal nor sustainable. I applaud you for the courage to post and deplore those that come on a support site to belittle you for that effort.

We might recognize it and want something else for you, but I don’t think you should be shamed to action. I will however maybe try to prod you into doing something…

Yes – her behavior is probably abusive. It’s controlling and controlling tends to be abusive. But it too is normal. One typical reaction to doing something wrong is trying to control the narrative, the reaction, the explanation, and all that. This might be her coping mechanism.

I’m going to encourage you to do a couple of things:
First, acknowledge to yourself that you are not happy with the current situation. I think that just by posting you admitted that. See my tagline? Acknowledge that if you are still in your current situation a month from today, it’s because you have decided to remain where you are. It’s up to you to create the momentum to change things.

Second: I’m not encouraging you to divorce but realize that D is an option. It’s not as bad as possibly remaining in the current situation for a long time. I think accepting D as a possibility frees you of a couple of things and places an urgency for both to possibly save the marriage. I nearly always encourage posters to investigate what D really is because we tend to have a twisted image of it. Fact is it changes your life, but generally you come OK out of it both emotionally and financially. Is it better than remaining married? No – not necessarily, but IMHO it’s better than a bad marriage that isn’t healing or improving.

Once you realize D is an option there can be an urgency in reconciling. It’s like you realize that the egg you are carrying on a small spoon can fall and break if you aren’t careful.

Third: Remember this is your wife. There shouldn’t be anything you two don’t talk about. So, use clear language. You want her to watch that show? Ask her, don’t hint. Be clear on your expectations rather than give unclear messages.

Fourth: Spend some time to contemplate what you want out of a marriage. Once you have some view of that then talk to your wife. Tell her what you want and ask if her view of the ideal marriage is comparable. Insist you seek MC. Not to deal with the infidelity, but to deal with that the communications and to decide if you two want to be married or not.
The infidelity? IF you two decide to remain married the MC will approach that. Frankly based on the number of affairs she’s had she needs IC.

I would set a time-limit on the above. For example, have the MC booked within 3 weeks.

The unicorn scenario? Well… I was decisive on d-day, but I was engaged and didn’t have the history you have. Even then I spent nights wondering if life was worth it. It takes bravery to reach out for help, and you have that bravery. Build on it rather than be dejected by those that might think you too meek.

But she does have a kind heart and cares for people in her surroundings

No she doesn't. Her behavior towards you shows that. She is a very selfish person. Everything you describe is someone who only cares about themselves.

I just wanna be happy and comfortable

The way you describe your life does not sound like you are either of these currently. And you don't seem to be doing much to change that.

Your WW has disrespected you, lied to you, cheated for a substantial amount of time, never made any substantial changes to win back your trust or repair the damage to the M that she created. Why do you want to continue to carry this dead weight around?

It seems to me that your WW wants a D, but doesn't want to be the bad guy and make that happen. She appears to be waiting for you. And if not, she will just continue to live her life. You just happen to be there, not really sharing it, but to fit in when and how she sees fit.

I will agree with others that you need to find a therapist to discuss some of these issues.

I suggest that you decide to take back control of your life. YOU are not responsible for her happiness. She appears to care nothing for yours. No one is going to save you, but you can save yourself and start deciding what you want to do with yourself.

I’ll start off by saying that I appreciate the insight and suggestions...

It all makes sense to me and reality is, I’m very conscious that a lot of my feelings and circumstances are self inflicted... I get it...

Fact is, I think I’m kinda taking a break of fighting... not in the sense of literally "fighting" with my wife, as I don’t believe that being angry, talking loud, shouting insults amounts to much in the long run... I believe in standing up for myself when needed and talking things through... It doesn’t always work if she doesn’t understand my words or how to make the changes I’d like her, need her to make, but in the long run, I think that’s the better approach...

But after years of work hard to find a balance with all aspects of my life, whether with my wife, family, kid, I’m just emotionally tired, so taking a bit of a step back from it...

I realize this is counter intuitive to my original "vent", and subsequent comments, but that’s where I’m at right now...

Either way, with all the covid stuff going on, it wouldn’t even be the right time to do anything about it anyway... where would I go? Where would she go... Dating would suck...

What it boils down to, is that after so many years, though I question my love for her, I know that I’m in love with loving her... more specifically making her feel loved... making her feel cared for and taken care of... an addiction? A habit... probably... but it is what it is...

I also believe that there are no perfect couples... 50% D rates prove that... So even if I did find someone new... New is only new until it’s not new anymore... and habits kick in... and eventually, the cycle starts over again...

It might be a weird way to look at it, but I do believe that to be the case... Maybe I was meant to be a bachelor... matter of fact, I believe that to be the case... and Likely woulda been the case if not for life’s curve balls and the kid...

Don’t get me wrong, things were good as we were building this life... I don’t regret it; just saying that things coulda been different... but maybe worse...

I dunno... for now, it just is what it is...

Either way, with all the covid stuff going on, it wouldn’t even be the right time to do anything about it anyway... where would I go? Where would she go... Dating would suck...

What you are saying with the above is that ANY decision or action you take will automatically lead to instant separation and divorce with a 24 hour deadline for one or both moving out. Not only that, but if that happens you are obliged to date within a few days.

Why?

Not to mention that IF you were to decide the marriage is over then where she goes is no longer your concern nor something you can impact. Not anymore than she can impact what you do.

What’s preventing you from having this short talk to your wife:
"Honey – I want this marriage to work but it’s clear that what we have now isn’t sustainable. What suggestions do you have so we can move forward?"

See any threat of divorce in that? See any need to move out?

...in love with loving her....

That sounds like what Brenda Schaeffer calls a 'love addiction'. I suggest reading her Is It Love or Is It Addiction?.

Remember, though, that nothing is likely to change for you unless someone takes action, and the best way to serve your best interests is for you to be that someone.

not in the sense of literally "fighting" with my wife, as I don’t believe that being angry, talking loud, shouting insults amounts to much in the long run...

I think that's the only right thing you've done. Other than that, I find your whole way of thinking and acting wrong.

I believe in standing up for myself when needed and talking things through...

It seems like you just believe it because you are not doing anything in that direction.

While you can handle it in her absence, it shouldn't be this hard for you to decide to move on without her.

All stories of infidelity are tragic, but yours is one of the worst I've ever read. You must not endure this betrayal and disrespect.

Yeah; I think the reason I’m here now, 2 years in is because I realize now that I didn’t handle it right at the time, and doing even a worst job at it today with the decisions I’m making... I get that...

It didn’t feel like the wrong decision at the time... reality is, I probably wasn’t in the right frame of mind to make those life changing decisions...

Things were actually good for a year or so... They just progressively started to change over time... kinda snuck up on me and I’m just now coming to that realization...

So it sucks... Though she is the cause for all of it, reality is, given the amount of time that has passed, at this point, I’d be the bad guy if I did go the route of separation and ultimately D...

This is truly a roller coaster of emotions...

reality is, given the amount of time that has passed, at this point, I’d be the bad guy if I did go the route of separation and ultimately D...

And? So?

Do you care if you’re the “bad guy” if your inner integrity and sanity are intact?

Gently, this is absolutely not a reason to stay. Your mind will not accept it.

I do believe there are good reasons to stay — up to a point, if someone is not dealing with a narcissistic serial cheater, like you are — that go beyond the relationship with the cheater. Children and finances are legit reasons to tough it out.

Telling yourself you’ll be the bad guy (and you don’t even know if that’s true) is not a reason your inner psyche will accept over time.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:18 PM, Tuesday, January 18th]

sometimes I type on these things and only some of the words make out of my mind to the post... To your point, though being the bad guy in making a move now does bother me, the kid and finances are also factors...

Though he’s 21, the kid is still not on sure footing in life and needs stability and guidance to keep on a good path... It’s not terrible, but it still could go either way at this point... He was heart broken when I told him at the time that we may split... were splitting actually... I never told him the reason; just that it was happening... So yeah; I feel like it may break him and send him on the wrong path if it did happen...

As for finances, at the time, since she was moving with a millionaire, she was ok with me just simply taking over the remaining mortgage and keep the house... We’ve done a good job at paying it down so Though it woulda been tight, I coulda pulled it off...

Doing it now would be a different story... I’m speculating, but she’d likely want her portion and so on, so I’d likely have to sell the house... would still make out ok out of it, but I like my house...

That said, who knows; maybe she’d end up with him again and life would go on...

That’s a discussion that I’m trying to convince myself of If/how having it with her... I kinda feel like she might... She’ll say no when we first talk, but I’m pretty sure that if we’d split that’s where she’d end up... eventually anyway...

You have gotten options and suggestions from posters ranging from filing for the Big D to simply asking your wife if she’s content with the state of the marriage. Yet you insist that you can’t do anything because it could lead to something worse than you are being offered.

If you don’t have any options and all change could possibly be worse than what you are offered then I suggest you try to settle for what you got.

After all:

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."

I think life is all about the pursuit of happiness, only happiness isn’t the type you get watching a Steve Martin movie or eating ice-cream. It’s more a feeling of being content with what you did with your limited time on earth. If you truly think you have no options, then try to stop being unhappy where you are. After all – if you truly can’t do anything and truly don’t have options then grumbling about your situation is akin to complaining about being fat in-between slices of cake.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:03 AM, Wednesday, January 19th]

At least cake tastes good. The natural consequence of getting bigger is the price you pay for the deliciousness.

It's more like complaining that a cactus is covered in spikes but still hugging the cactus. You aren't the bad guy for letting go just because you've been hugging the cactus for two years.

CC - There are 2 big problems I see here.
1 - You are more concerned for her position than you are your own. She isn't making you happier, so why is that the focus of your life. Ask yourself the last time you were happy? Then think about the last time you were happy with her. Start finding out what kind of gas your engine needs. Why were you happy and what was happening? Don't make it about her, make it about you. What was going on inside of you? What feelings were there besides happiness/contentment? What was driving those feelings? Find those aspects and maybe share a little bit of that. I think you have self esteem issues, not depression. You say you don't like to stand up for yourself, why not? What was the last thing you fought for? Why have you stopped fighting for your happiness?
Anger is there to protect you from being sad. You seem to embrace the sadness and shun the anger because it strains your relationships. Sometimes people need to change or apologize to you. You fought for your wife, it is time to fight for yourself. So you end up alone. That is a possible outcome. You would be alone, but proud of yourself. Surrounded by people who like the "you" who supports yourself.
You even try to use a silly "messages" system. She shouldn't need a decoder ring to know you are pissed about her affairs and she needs to fix your fears and her behaviors. She hasn't put in the work because you haven't given her a road map. You should write out for yourself and her all the things you want changed and the way you expect her to behave to instead. This keeps you from having vague "make me feel better when I'm sad" points that discredit the whole list. Make the list comprehensive maybe let us here give some items a once over to help with tone. Then you aren't fighting, while openly talking about what you want to improve the marriage from your side. Then she can walk through and address things.

2 - You are covering up for your wife. Your son and the people who were directly involved need to know. Otherwise you look like the crazy abusive one. Also, you really care about being the bad guy. You need to put ownership for being the bad guy in the marriage on who caused the damage. She needs to own her side. It isn't for you to hide her secrets. Some people on here have talked about hiding it from some people, but that always forces the betrayed spouse to hold inside this traumatic event. Just because the abuser is still in their life. If that makes the abuser embarrassed or sad, then they shouldn't have done that. The abuser needs to own their bad behavior, because it will force themselves to be honest with their friends, who could help keep her from making more bad decisions.
Your wife renewed her vows. Those vows involved her loving you. That should involve protecting you. That should involve caring for your feelings. She slept with your friend, stealing your friend from you and denying you sex/love while giving it to others. That wasn't love. She needs to step up that game and keep it at a maximum.

I usually recommend individual counseling before marriage counseling, but I don't think you are going to take that seriously until you start to regularly have open communication with your wife. She is abusing you and you need to kind of take a whooping in marriage counseling before you start to request for things yourself in individual counseling. But maybe you have more fight in you than I think, but the hinting part really spoke volumes about your marriage. You are "testing" her now and when she fails you are seeing this as a resentment. That needs to go away before you can get real issues out there.

Lastly. About your son. He is 21. You have coddled him recently and probably his whole life. He won't know how to handle traumatic situations because you are guarding him from them. He should be told what happened and you should talk through about how you are handling it. He will be cheated on in the future, so he needs to see how you handled it and if that is how he would want to handle it. When children become adults, you can talk to them like adults. The path they choose should be based on their values, not whether you are there to guide them. They need to guide themselves, while knowing their parents are there for support until they can't be there any more. Which is an actual time. He will make mistakes as an adult, but like you make mistakes, he needs to learn how to handle those situations. Sorry, for the parenting advise, but you seem to be using his decisions as a reason to hide secrets in your family.

Good luck, and know that at a minimum, know you testing your wife is never going to work. You are going to resent her more, then she is going to resent you because she will be confused by your resentment on failing tests she doesn't know she is taking. If you want to confront, without fighting, write it out and give her what you write. It will force you to use words and evaluate their impact in advance. But you will be direct and give her cause to effect items.

Thank you all once again for the input and advice... I agree with all of it... I’m reflecting on all of it and putting thought on what I want and what I’m gonna do about it...

I understand; I did make mistakes early on... and I’m making some to this day... I did, we did rug sweep and that is what is bringing me here today... Hence the name of my thread... Feels like yesterday... I did lift the rug and all those feelings rushed back...

So yes; I am starting to think more about myself and of what I want and need... I’m slowly evaluating my options and how to put an action plan together to get to get there...

It feels complex, it feels hard, it’s confusing, but at the root of it all, I get what you all say... It’s really not that hard; it’s just a matter of doing it.... I just need to get myself on MY team to start with and go from there...

Thanks again for the input and the reality check...I appreciate it...