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Are all waywards this clueless?

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Krystlebefore ( member #56351) posted at 1:12 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Dragn - I rarely post but this one has struck a chord.
a very close family member of mine was in a female/female relationship for 30 years - when her partner started acting a little strange with a man at work - talking about him, texting him etc.
my family member in the end spoke to him and he said 'but aren't you lesbians?' - all innocent etc so she figured she must be going mad!

nope - that relationship is now over and her ex partner is having an affair with him (he's married btw and from what I've seen is a manipulative creep, gets off on his abilities to 'turn' her to the dark side or some crap like that) and she is also secretly having a further affair with some other married guy.

Seriously trust your gut on this one and if it walks/talks like a duck etc - don't be surprised by anything! I did not see the above coming at all and as a wayward I feel like I should have seen the signs.....

I reside on the wayward side of the street....

posts: 203   ·   registered: Dec. 9th, 2016
id 8709421
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 1:16 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

So maybe if your H had some serious consequences like the hard 180, you get your own $ in the bank he cannot touch, stop doing his laundry or cooking his meals etc. make him move to sleep in another room.

Until he learns to RESPECT you / you need to protect yourself.

I have done this minus the sleeping in another room. There are no other rooms. I have slept in the living room. On the sofa...man that sucked. He refuses to leave thr bedroom.

When he remains the room mate we get along fine. Its when he tries to play husband while screwing around (even hiding stuff, looking at other woman etc) it drives me crazy.

Why cant he just keep to being the room mate??? He doesnt understand thst he stopped being a husband long ago.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709422
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 1:17 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Krystlebefore

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is a possibility and just the things he has said thus far has sent my gut into knots.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709423
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DigitalSpyder ( member #61995) posted at 5:59 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

When he remains the room mate we get along fine. Its when he tries to play husband while screwing around (even hiding stuff, looking at other woman etc) it drives me crazy.

Why cant he just keep to being the room mate??? He doesnt understand thst he stopped being a husband long ago.

Is he? I don't see how it could impact you so harshly, if he was just a roommate to you.

I get not wanting to leave for financial reasons. But when you choose that, and they've always behaved this way, you can always expect more of the same. He's not changing. That seems pretty evident. There has to be another solution for you that doesn't cost you the family farm. But I don't see anything good for you, if you continue along this path and he does not do the work necessary for change. Even if it results only in roommate status.

Post Tenebras Spero Lucem

posts: 370   ·   registered: Dec. 28th, 2017   ·   location: South Carolina
id 8709467
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 10:01 AM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Is he? I don't see how it could impact you so harshly, if he was just a roommate to you.

Is he? Husband or roommate to which you refer?

I suspect room mate.

Of course being reminded of his jerkery will always have an impact on me.

One simply doesnt forget what has been done to them because they don't live as husband and wife or even divorce for that matter.

He is my husband on paper. He is not a husband in life. At least not what i believe a husband to be.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709483
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 1:04 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

I have not read many of the posts here so this may be too much or too late. It seems to me that this could be from one of two things. The first is that he has real fear of intimacy so he goes after women he can have sex with but no emotional involvement. He treats you poorly because he scared to death of you. He scared of letting you in making himself vulnerable. That’s the first scenario. The second is that he is just undeveloped emotionally and really does not care whether he hurts you or not because, regardless, you’re willing to stick around.
Four affairs is telling. He is not husband material.

When someone walks away let them go
TD Jakes

posts: 3109   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8709495
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 1:59 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

DragnHeart, you can’t just be room mates with someone with whom you were (and maybe still are?) in love with, especially if you’re still married. Also, if you truly were just his room mate and staying married on paper, what he does or doesn’t do when he’s not with you shouldn’t concern you anymore.

I’m not familiar with your entire story or the circumstances for why you are staying with him, but if the reasons are primarily financial, I’m going to reiterate my earlier comment that your husband is a ticking time bomb, whether or not his relationship/flirtation with this woman is consensual or not. He is putting himself in a position where he could easily get himself fired or under disciplinary action, so you need to start emotionally, legally, and financially extricating yourself before his bad decisions blow up in his face.

Staying married to this man and living with him is like trying to heal from the emotional and physical injuries of being stabbed while still under the same roof as the stabber… and occasionally getting shanked by him. If he won’t leave then you need to leave, even if it costs you a great deal in the short term. I don’t see how this current situation is good for your mental or physical health.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8709501
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 3:00 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

It seems to me that this could be from one of two things. The first is that he has real fear of intimacy so he goes after women he can have sex with but no emotional involvement. He treats you poorly because he scared to death of you. He scared of letting you in making himself vulnerable. That’s the first scenario. The second is that he is just undeveloped emotionally and really does not care whether he hurts you or not because, regardless, you’re willing to stick around.

I think maybe a bit if both.

When we started dating and into our engagement he was very intimate and emotional. He still believed Men Dont Cry But was able to let himself break down and let ME comfort him. We enjoyed thr same activities, spent every second we could out doing things. He was romantic, wrote poems got me cards etc.

After we got married and dd arrived he totally changed.

Became distant. Would come home from work and not spend any time with me or dd.

Was in denial about dd's medical problems.

Fought with me about the recommended treatments for her.

The hobbies and activities we enjoyed before he no longer wanted to do.

Other than anger he totally shut down sharing how he was feeling with me.


But....he completely shared how he felt about everything with ow2. She knew more about what was going on in his head than i did.

He says he played on her sympathy to get into her pants and for all i know thats 100% true. The things he told her in emails were devastating to me.

Its also true that he doesn't care if he hurts me because he knows i wont divorce.

And before i found SI i did actually decide to D after dday 1/ow1. I gave him an out. Told him if he couldn't remain faithful to me then he didnt deserve to be my husband. He cried, begged, pleaded with me not to leave. I didnt decide to R right away. When i did things were good for a while. I do believe living with family was not in our best interests and harmed R. We decided to have a second child and it was during that pregnancy that i had dday2.

I think he wanted a mother figure and i wasnt going to give him that. Nor was i going to tolerate being ignored and dealing with a sick child by myself. He needed to be apart of her medical decisions as much as i was.

I was going to the hospital every week, pediatrician, neonatologist, gastroenterology, cardiology, nutritionists, dieticians, social workers, had weekly vists from a home nurse. She was awesome! I had one doctor demanding dd be taken away and threatening us because he said i wasnt feeding her while another doctor said shes fine relax. I had to fight, with the home nurses help to get her seen by specialists at the hospial for sick children. I prayed every day for a diagnosis so i could prove that one doctor wrong. I was under so much stress.

Wh....he decided to escape relaity and find comfort in OW2 arms and pants... rolleyes

I think now its about escape. He can appear to be the funny, easy to talk to, fun to be around guy out there and not be seen for how much of a screw up he really is.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709508
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 3:36 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

I think now its about escape. He can appear to be the funny, easy to talk to, fun to be around guy out there and not be seen for how much of a screw up he really is.

I agree! At least you know the cause of it all.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11155   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8709517
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 4:03 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

I agree! At least you know the cause of it all.

I still cannot do anything about that.

It also makes wh unsafe around anyone and everyone because its not based soley about intercourse.

His escape CAN be sexual but it can also just be ego kibbles or being viewed as something he is not.

One email to ow2 was sent when he actually came to the hospital with me and dd. She was going through a lot of difficult testing.

He told ow2 how great a father he was supporting her and comforting her etc.

Guess who was in the room with dd and who was in the waiting room with ds... rolleyes

He wasnt even there for her yet needed to get approval and praise for his (non) action.


BluerThanBlue

Also, if you truly were just his room mate and staying married on paper, what he does or doesn’t do when he’s not with you shouldn’t concern you anymore.

What he does outside of the home matters as long as he chooses to remain the sole provider for the household. His actions already cost him one job and it was ONLY because he was the sole provider that he didnt receive harsher consequences. NOT infidelity related.

Please dont say well go get a job. I have a full time job. Im still caring for three children with serious medical issues, the fourth with issues but not as serious as well as maintaining a full farm. I will make this a working, profitable farm but that takes time.

What i dont need from wh is a play by play of his interactions with other woman:

A. regardless of orientation because as said his vice is escape and that takes many forms not just sex.

B. I have repeatedly asked him not to do things that he knows because i have told him, are triggers for me.

It feels like he is rubbing it in my face. "Hey heres a woman I cant have sex with but ill get as close to as i can just to see how much i can piss you off"

He might not be thinking that at all and its just my take but its still shitty for him to do after being asked not to.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709524
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:53 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

DragnHeart, I'm not giving you a pat response of "well just get a job and leave!" Devising and implementing a plan for getting out of the relationship (even if it's 10 or 20 years from now) might help you feel more empowered and give you a light at the end of the tunnel that you can move toward.

I think it's unrealistic to expect him to adhere to any sort of agreement or code of conduct. He has no integrity or consideration for anyone else's feelings. I agree with you that he probably gets an ego boost by how upset and angry you get when he talks about other women.

You can't control what he says and does, but you can take control over your own mindset or behavior. What are some strategies you can deploy to be less reactive and make it more difficult for him to push your buttons? These are just some ideas I came up with off the top of my head but there may be others that work better for you:

-Avoid being around him right when he gets home from work. Establish some kind of routine that makes you unavailable for the first hour he's home so he will occupy himself with something other than talking about his day.
-When he mentions another woman, don't bother engaging with him at all, even to tell him to shut up. If possible, leave the room. If not, pick up a magazine, put on headphones, play a game on your phone, start doing a chore. If he escalates or throws a tantrum, simply say, "Sorry I'm not really interested in what you're talking about." If he persists, just give him a bored look and don't respond to anything he says.
-Use some strategy to help you snap out of triggers. Maybe wear a hair tie on your wrist and slap yourself with it when he some stupid thing and you want to explode at him.

The point is to find ways to turn off the spigot of attention that he's seeking from you, disincentivize his trolling attempts, and shift the power dynamic in your favor.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8709538
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 5:22 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Devising and implementing a plan for getting out of the relationship (even if it's 10 or 20 years from now) might help you feel more empowered and give you a light at the end of the tunnel that you can move toward.

When the opportunity presents itself i will be the first to jump at it. I believe everything happens for a reason. Had we D after dday1 i wouldnt have my ds or twins. I have faith that everything will work itself out.

I agree with you that he probably gets an ego boost by how upset and angry you get when he talks about other women.

I think thats a sick pleasure he gets but the ego boost i spoke to comes from others and how they view him. I have seen all the bad and good. They only see the good he presents them. They look at him and see the funny easy to talk to guy. I look at him and see the cheater.


You can't control what he says and does, but you can take control over your own mindset or behavior. What are some strategies you can deploy to be less reactive and make it more difficult for him to push your buttons? These are just some ideas I came up with off the top of my head but there may be others that work better for you:

I have actually done much of that. I asked once to stop talking about the woman at work. That i didn't want to hear about it. After that i tend to get have my head down in my phone when he talks about her. He gets so upset when i ignore him.

He also has been very upset thst he isnt greeted at the door by the kids when he gets home. They are in their rooms doing school work or playing mindcraft or watching art/craft videos.

Im not perfect in not reacting but i am getting better.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709552
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:40 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

((Big hug))

He sounds so exhausting and insufferable, DragnHeart. It pains me that you have this albatross around your neck. In a perfect world, he would get struck by lightening... weeks after winning the megamillions jackpot.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8709561
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 5:51 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

He is nowhere near as exhausting as the kids shit. I just refer to him as my fifth child.

I do miss who he once was. I miss the relationship we had, the talks, the passion for our mutual hobby, the amazing sex. blush

Hes lost all joy in the life we had.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709566
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 7:38 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Thats actually the tip of the iceberg with him but i stay because i own a family inherited farm that i refuse to lose because of him. So when i win the lottery or get an inheritance i can buy him out with sure ill divorce. Until then im not giving up MY dream because of his dick.

Dragn I absolutely know that you want your farm. You have said that over and over for the 3+ years I've been on SI, so I get it. But on the flip side of the equation - YOU have decided to stay with this person because of what YOU want. You're choosing this situation (for whatever reasons, and those are VALID to you so no arguing from me about them) and in so choosing, there's a give and take with it too. The price you pay for having your farm is staying married to him.

Its ok to give up hoping when it IS in fact hopeless. I know my wh will never change. That is who he has become. Sad. But owell. I may not be IN love with him anymore and thr relationship is just a memory, nothing more than room mates. That saod thr damage he has done is everlasting. Things i have to work through. Triggers. Etc. But having him constantly opening the wounds again by telling me how wonderful this woman is just isnt helping MY healing.

Of course his actions have caused damage. And that isn't your fault. Managing your triggers and such is part of your healing though. And that healing is made WAY harder than it should be by staying with him IMHO.

all i wanted was acknowledgement that what my wh was doing is wrong.

Acknowledged. He's acting like an ass, and you KNOW he is.

Why cant he just keep to being the room mate??? He doesnt understand thst he stopped being a husband long ago.

I say this with all the kindness and compassion in the world, but you don't treat him like a roommate. You are forever starting conversations about what he's doing and saying, and... you sound like a pissed off WIFE to me. I think part of this is that you need to adjust your expectations. It reads to me often that you have the expectation that he will act like a respectful husband to you, but you keep saying he's just your roommate - and around and around you go. If you ARE roommate, then stop giving a crap what he's doing, who he's flirting with, what shenanigans he's into. If he really was your roommate, then none of that should matter to you.

Mind you, I am not saying you're wrong for expecting him to act like a husband, because he is in fact still your husband, but I just feel like you have been spinning your wheels for years on this - saying he's your roommate and then being pissed as all hell when he fails as your husband.

What i dont need from wh is a play by play of his interactions with other woman:

So just stop reacting. I read it as he likes getting a rise out of you and he is getting some sort of emotional payoff from doing this, so just stop giving him the reactions he's after. He will eventually stop once he knows that the shop is closed.

Its also true that he doesn't care if he hurts me because he knows i wont divorce.

And there's the sticky wicket. With NO real consequences for his continuing crappy behavior, what possible impetus is there for him to change Dragn? He hasn't yet and he likely won't so what can YOU do here? Forget him - what can YOU do to make your situation better for YOU other than just being furious 24/7? Cus that shit ain't good for YOU. And I can't imagine that your life is a happy place to exist when you're pissed off and hurting all the time. You deserve more than that.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3294   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8709596
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 8:28 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Of course his actions have caused damage. And that isn't your fault. Managing your triggers and such is part of your healing though. And that healing is made WAY harder than it should be by staying with him IMHO

Oh well I've never taken the easy route in life lol. Maybe this is my penitence from wrongs i did in a past life?

Or I'm just to stubborn. grin

I dont walk around in a constant state of anger. Well unless the kids are being jerks...and i have to yell to get them to shape up, do chores. Then im kinda grumpy.

Most of the time I'm to busy to think about him.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709610
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WaryOptimist ( member #19911) posted at 9:51 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Apologies in advance if someone else already suggested this, as only skimmed the post.

Seems you only have his word for it that she's gay. After 4 affairs and knowing about your distrust of him with coworkers, might he just be telling you tales about her sexual orientation?

Me: The faithful one Him: WS 4 incredible, grown kidsMarried 36 years, together 43D-Day: April 1, 2006 (yep, April Fool's Day...)Aaaas Yoouuu Wiiiish...

posts: 724   ·   registered: Jun. 16th, 2008   ·   location: Here & There
id 8709630
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 10:21 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Seems you only have his word for it that she's gay. After 4 affairs and knowing about your distrust of him with coworkers, might he just be telling you tales about her sexual orientation?

Yes we covered that. No worries. I dont know. I find it weird that a new hire would share that info to start with when she had started with other woman.

The way wh tells it everyone first thought she was a guy. They all wear face masks and they go in and out of the shop so everyone has hats, sweaters reflective work coats etc.

Anyways its not her sexual orientation i have issue with. Its his using it to dismiss MY concerns or feelings about him being To Friendly with woman in general. He already crossed the work/personal boundary by telling her things about ME.

He doesn't have to have sexual relations outside the marriage to be dishonest, dismissing, not valuing my concerns, crossing boundaries etc.

His back step when i asked why she has his personal cell number is also suspicious. "Oh well she needs to be able to contact me...pause...oh and it was "manager" who gave her THAT number". rolleyes

He hasn't had a PA since he left his previous job, so 4-5 years ago. He has gone online to seek out NSA sex (which never resulted in any physical meetings), has added woman to his social media as well as like pages if all half naked woman since then.

Just not things you do after destroying your marriage and wife.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709644
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BeenHereBefore ( new member #77290) posted at 10:48 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

In answer to the original question, are all waywards this clueless, speaking in generalities I would say yes. With my experience with my first husband being a cheater, and my 2nd being an on going cheater, they are selfish, careless, and clueless to the pain they cause. I see your post as being one wanting to vent, and posting on this website is asking for support dealing with said selfish, careless and clueless persons who all of us are having to/or had to deal with in our lives. Not that any of us asked for or deserved these persons to hurt us. Hugs to all who come on this website.

posts: 26   ·   registered: Feb. 11th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8709655
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 10:59 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Oh for all i know it never crossed his mind that talking about her would upset me. He can be a total airhead sometimes. Not just about infidelity stuff.

Thats the problem after infidelity. What do we as BS's trust. Our entire world is destroyed. Our relationship made a mockery of, our reality totally skewed.

The ws is living two separate lives. They are a master of manipulation, being sneaky and keeping secrets. How does a BS make logical sense of anything...

He says they meant nothing to him and that he loves me but hes destroyed a marriage to get his jollys off and his ego stroked. How can he honestly say he LOVES me when he can inflict such pain?

Not once, not twice not even three times but 4 with a ton of constant looking else wher, before during and after. Grrrr

Thats not love.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22804   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8709659
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