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There have been LOTS of topics written about Covid on here. We could go on and on about all of this. What we NEED is to have a respectful dialogue to HELP each other.

I'll start . I take Zinc and extra doses of Vitamin D. I have found by doing this that the sinus issues I normally have during this time of year because of it being sugar cane harvesting time...has not happened. Big PLUS for me !

Also...because sunlight kills Covid...I take a shopping cart from outside that has been in the sunlight...before going into the store. I used to wipe it down as well...but then the wipes started to run out. I still take them from outside though.

I also have wet wipes that my H has poured alcohol into...since alcohol kills Covid. I use those wipes a LOT!! I have been teased for YEARS about my obsessive handwashing...so washing my hands regularly is not a big deal. I am also LOVING the extra hand sanitizing stations everywhere now . We are told that this is an airborne virus...but masks obviously don't work for it. For ME...keeping my hands clean and away from my nose and mouth have worked well with other viruses in the past...and seem to be working well now.

I feel it is not a matter of IF I will get the virus...it is a matter of WHEN. However...I am in my 60's and have never had the flu. I very rarely had the cold either...and have not had one since my children are grown. So either my immune system is doing very well...or my mitigation efforts are working. I feel it is probably a combination of both. I am also a SAHW...so I am not in a work environment with a lot of people. Even when I did work though...I was pretty healthy. Also...I get out and go into the grocery store...pharmacy...department stores...etc. It is much easier to avoid contact though when I am not in an enclosed environment with several people for hours. This was how most of the people I know who have had Covid contracted it.

Is there anyone else who would like to have a respectful dialogue about this?

I've taken a couple of stabs at this.

I have desperately wanted and needed to have respectful, thoughtful dialogue and have been very disappointed over the past almost 2 years now. Just before Christmas I actually did finally have a conversation that was mutually respectful and productive with someone on the opposite side of one decision process.

Want2B, you know I love you and you are one of my very favorite members here. And with all respect, there are a couple of statements in your post that are not entirely accurate. And in the current climate, "almost accuracies" are very dangerous because people who do not understand science and public health and who are already distrustful and resentful about the measures recommended/required will jump all over the "almost truth" and defend it to death. I am NOT AT ALL saying that is what you are doing. I think I understand the points you're making.

But to state "..but masks obviously don't work for it" is just not accurate. Masks are one measure which have been repeatedly proven to mitigate the transmission of not just COVID but also flu viruses. They work much better the more people use them. They work much better to contain each person's respiratory droplets to a small area than to protect an individual wearer from airborne droplets, but there is evidence of some mitigation even there.

I think it is awesome that you have avoided infection so far. I am happy and grateful for anyone who hasn't been personally affected or lost family members, friends or patients. I have not been so fortunate. I have watched loved ones gasping for breath and ultimately pass away. I have cared for patients at my job who were with us for years, who died without family present during our outbreak last year. I have several close friends with no comorbidities who were on ventilators for months and are just now regaining some sort of normal life after over a year since their infection. I've been marginalized in my family and my church, which is one of the deepest wounds I've ever experienced.

Here's where I get stuck. And please believe me, I am trying with all my heart to be respectful of others and not angry. I just don't have any energy to even be angry anymore. But I am a registered nurse with over 33 years of experience. I am a science geek who made money back going to college, and I am constantly reading, studying and learning. And it has been offensive and hurtful to me for people with no understanding of basic science roll their eyes at me for wearing a mask. Or call me hateful names on social media because I advocate for vaccines.

This pandemic is unlike anything that our world has ever faced. A novel coronavirus took off in a world with global travel, open borders in many areas, copious amounts of information available but a lack of ability to understand much of it. People became entrenched in their positions early and some still absolutely refuse to give any ground. As information and knowledge in the medical community grew, recommendations changed, and people balked at every single step. Answers and actions were demanded, but there was resistance to every new measure suggested.

I don't have a whole lot of hope for the immediate future, to be honest. I've never been at this place personally. But I believe with all my heart that the only way we will ever see our way through this is when a majority of people are at least as concerned about the health and safety of total strangers as they are for their own idea of personal autonomy. Sadly, I don't see this happening very soon.

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for, but it's all I've got right now.

Want2B, you know I love you and you are one of my very favorite members here.

The feeling is mutual .

I stated what I did about the masks because of the way states that have big mask mandates are still having the same Covid issues as states that don't have the mandates. I am not against wearing masks...I just haven't found where they work for Covid from the comparison I have seen from different states. Is there something I am missing about the data?

For ME personally...I try my best not to touch my face when I am out in public until I can get one of my alcohol wet wipes or hand sanitizer. I wear glasses...so when I wear a mask...if I don't have it just right...my glasses fog up. I get very anxious about having to keep fixing the mask and putting my fingers very close to my nose and eyes.

When Covid first hit...the federal government warned AGAINST wearing masks. Then they flip flopped several times on it...which...in MY opinion...caused a lot of confusion and distrust for people. I mean...when the guy who is supposed to be watching out for US says NOT to wear masks...then later says that he lied about masks in order to get the masks for the healthcare workers...what ELSE is he lying about?? I understand his reasoning...just look at the TP debacle . But we couldn't find masks at all at first anyway...so why lie???

I guess what I was looking for was what has helped others in fighting this virus. This is a GLOBAL virus affecting ALL of us...and we should come together to HELP each other instead of being so divisive. People shouldn't be rolling eyes at you for wearing a mask...or calling you hateful names. They shouldn't be calling me stupid for not getting a vaccine or give me the evil eye for not wearing a mask. I don't know if what I have been doing will help at all...I only know that other people around me have gotten Covid and I haven't.

Sadly...I have been personally affected by Covid...but not to the extent that you have (((HUGS))). I can't talk about it on here...but I will say that I know your feeling of loss from your Dad . My deepest condolences and prayers are still ongoing for you Dear Lady.

When Covid first hit...the federal government warned AGAINST wearing masks. Then they flip flopped several times on it...which...in MY opinion...caused a lot of confusion and distrust for people. I mean...when the guy who is supposed to be watching out for US says NOT to wear masks...then later says that he lied about masks in order to get the masks for the healthcare workers...what ELSE is he lying about?? I understand his reasoning...just look at the TP debacle rolleyes . But we couldn't find masks at all at first anyway...so why lie???

This is the stuff I was referring to about the early days and information. And yes, I absolutely get that it is confusing to be told something one week and then something completely different days or weeks later. To put in perspective, at my facility during April and May of 2020 there were days where our policies changed significantly 4 or more times in ONE DAY. I have found several sources of information which have been very helpful to me. I will ask for admin to look at the information and see if I can post the links because they are as unbiased and apolitical as I have been able to find. They are all epidemiologists employed in private sector and all of their information includes links to their source documents.

Thanks for your sweetness and the hope that you radiate. I'm sorely in need of a hope infusion as we've had to open our COVID unit back up and just moved another patient over.

----------Nothing Cloth Surgical N95

Nothing 15 min. 20 min. 30 min. 2.5 hours

Cloth 20 min. 27 min. 40 min. 3.3 hours

Surgical 30 min. 40 min. 1 hour 5 hours

N95 2.5 hours 3.3 hours 5 hours 25 hours

From a report from the CDC last spring on the estimated time of protection when in close contact between an uninfected and infected person before infection was likely by what mask they were wearing. It was noted that these estimates were only if the masks were properly fitted where most peoples are not. So basically you get a slight 25% improvement by wearing any mask over nothing. Surgical masks aren't only 50% better than cloth. You get decent protection with N95, but if in close office quarters all day you best both be wearing n95 properly to prevent transmission.

Omnicron & Delta likely lowered these numbers.

[This message edited by grubs at 11:29 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

HFSSC...I would appreciate seeing that information...thanks for that . I will be praying for you...it HAS to be hard to see this suffering .

grubs...this seems about right...thanks for posting it . My H and I were watching an interview the other day that was done prior to Covid. We both felt so uneasy at how CLOSE these people were!!

Things are definitely changing now...and I have to admit that some of those changes are very welcome for me . I never liked having to turn on the water in public lavatories. It is NICE to see these motion sensored lavatories showing up more and more every day! With us traveling for my H's job...it is a very WELCOME change for me .

Can’t post links yet but these are my favorite epidemiologists in no particular order. All of them are active on social media but also have blogs that can be accessed. Dear Pandemic has a lot of interactive stuff and they are very responsive to questions. Friendly Neighbor Epidemiologist primarily answers from her blog but she does post all of her updates to Facebook. Your Local Epidemiologist is the third one I follow.

FNE, Emily Smith, is an epidemiologist and is on faculty at Duke University. She does write from a faith based perspective which is not, IMO, overpowering and is always respectful.

YLE, Katelyn Jetelina, has a Masters in Public Health and PhD in epidemiology and biostatistics and is on faculty with University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston.

And Dear Pandemic are an impressive group of self-titled Nerdy Girls from the US, Canada and England.

I hope this info is useful to some of you. 😊

HFSSC...I liked the Dear Pandemic site the most thanks for that information .

W2BHA, I've accidentally won this argument in my family as nearly each and every one of them who didn't wear masks or get the vaccine contracted COVID, some twice. Some were hospitalized and some have long COVID. The vaccinated and masked members of the family have either not been sick at all (even colds and stuff) or in the case of those who share households with unvaccinated members who contracted it, have had nothing more than the sniffles for a couple of days. My last respectful family debate about this happened on Thanksgiving Day with my brother and his wife and my cousin's husband. My cousin's husband was hospitalized for a week with COVID right before Christmas and my brother and his wife spent Christmas sick with COVID for the second time in a year.

I hope that you stay safe from it. It can be quite ugly.

I think you have to find what works for you. The CDC has constantly changed the standard and caused a lot of confusion. I know it’s an ever changing virus so we have to change up our habits.

Covid hit our home back in the summer. Our twins were 12 and at the time that was the dividing line for the kids vaccinations. One of our twins has a severe respiratory disease, the other does not. The pulmonary Dr advised against the vax for our severe son and opted to put him on a vitamin, zinc, breathing treatment regimen. This Son is also severely autistic and would never wear a mask, not going to happen.

When Covid hit us, my Son with the respiratory disease was fine, asymptomatic not even a sniffle, our other twin, the healthier one, spent 6 days in Children’s hospital.

The lack of respect is why I do not discuss Covid on any social media platform, I’m breaking my own rule here. When I made it public that my Son was in ICU and in need of prayers a "friend" of 30 + years called me. First thing out of his mouth "was he vaccinated?" I said "no we decided not to vax the boys". He started yelling and cussing about what horrible parents we are, not even asking how he was doing. I lost that friend. Friend 2 a neighbor, same thing starts saying we played chicken with our Son’s health saying how stupid we are. He did apologize later.

Around that time a good friend passed away from Covid. I was telling someone I work with and the response was "was he vaccinated?" Not I’m sorry to hear that, let me pray for the family. I will never ask anyone’s vax status, it’s none of anyone’s business.

Let’s get back to showing respect for each other. How have we gotten to the point that our private health decisions are up for debate? Other than this post, I refuse to participate. Now I’m crawling back to my non Covid discussion hole.

As nice (and quiet) as I can post it, I have reached the point of having no respect or sympathy for those ill or dying of covid who have rejected the proven, scientific help of a vaccine. I am not hostile to the unvaccinated -- just not sympathetic -- but feel they are selfish to put others at risk for their decisions. I do feel sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of children who have been orphaned because their parents died from Covid.

DevastatedDee...I have actually had the reverse happen in my family. I had written once how ONE vaccinated person went to a birthday party thinking she was just "under the weather"...and personally gave Covid to 27 other people. She was shocked...because unlike what people are saying NOW...at one point people thought that if they were vaccinated they couldn't get Covid.

This virus doesn't care whether anyone is vaccinated or not. The people you know who were in the hospital...had they been given the monoclonal antibody treatments before they went in? The people I know who have contracted Covid but haven't been vaccinated...they all had these therapeutic treatments...either by infusion when they tested positive...or by subcutaneous injection when they were exposed to someone who had it. EVERY ONE of them felt better within hours of the treatments...and NOT ONE ended up in the hospital...Thank You God .

Tanner...thank you for sharing your story Cuz . I feel HORRIBLE that people would say that about your precious family . This issue is so divisive...yet we are ALL susceptible to the virus...no matter whether we are vaccinated or not. RESPECT is what is sorely missing in some discussions. I talk freely about my family and their situations on other sites...and thankfully no one has been disrespectful about it so far. The one thing about this is...you sure find out the true colors of people with something like this!

Jeaniegirl...your post was NOT respectful or helpful at all. There are PLENTY of threads on here to BASH the unvaccinated...please leave your vitriol statements on those threads.

I have reached the point of having no respect or sympathy for those ill or dying of covid who have rejected the proven, scientific help of a vaccine.

Wow, in two years on SI this is one of the most shocking things I’ve read.

My apologies for posting my feelings on this thread.

Frustration at two more funerals this week that didn't have to happen.

Tanner...I am SO sorry you had to see this type of poison on this thread Coozann (((HUGS))). I certainly HOPE it wasn't aimed at you in particular...but THIS is what the unvaccinated have to face all the time .

For what it is worth...I am very THANKFUL that both of your twins are doing well now . I also REALLY appreciate you finding the courage to share YOUR journey with Covid . Thank God your child's pulmonary doctor was following the science in his recommendation to you to NOT get your child vaccinated.

The reason I started this thread was because this isn't a black and white issue...and I was really wanting to read about precautions others have been using that they would want to share that maybe can HELP those of us who haven't been vaccinated...for whatever reason.

I haven't been able to look through all of the lists that HFSSC gave...but I can't find ANY posts so far about the adverse reactions to the vaccines on that list. That really puzzles me because there ARE adverse reactions...yet NOTHING has been posted about it on these lists? Granted...I haven't seen ALL the posts...but so far I can't find anything from the lists. I will keep looking though because I want to read up on as much of the literature as I can about the issue in MY family.

I certainly HOPE it wasn't aimed at you in particular.

I’m the only one that mentioned my 12 year old being sick and my friend dying. It was directed at me. She made a point to mention both.

I don’t know my friends vax status, he was a great man, not my business, but we made the decision for our twins on the advice of a Dr.

Thank you Jeaniegirl for your apology.

Frustration at two more funerals this week that didn't have to happen.

You are absolutely correct...NO ONE should be dying because of this virus. There are many therapeutics that have HELPED keep people out of the hospitals and/or dying. Hopefully even more will be readily available soon.

I belong to an obesity group on another site...and was shocked at how many of the people in that group had NO IDEA about monoclonal antibody infusions when vaccines weren't available to our age group last year. When they asked their doctor about it...they were given the orders to have the treatments. Not ONE of them ended up in the hospital or died. Thankfully this has become common knowledge now...so it is talked about pretty regularly.

Unfortunately...these treatments have been STOPPED in MY state right now. I am just praying that there will be something for me for WHEN I get Covid...not IF. This virus will more than likely reach ALL of us at one point or another. I will keep using precautions to NOT get it as long as I can though.

Tanner...I saw that .

Tanner, nothing was aimed at you as I had not read your post. I am so sorry about your children. My apologies if you thought I was speaking about you. It's children who are suffering so much during this pandemic. So many are becoming orphans due to ignorance.

I will leave this thread because I am angry at the ignorance.

I will leave this thread because I am angry at the ignorance.

There is no lack of ignorance on both sides of this virus. I am hoping that respectful dialogue will shed some light to the different ways this virus has affected all of us.