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Complicated relationship

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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:00 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

I don’t think he would come back if I asked him to. Does part of me want to? Of course I do! This nightmare is more painful than I could have ever imagined. But I won’t.

I just hope he lives up to everything he told me last night. He said he would take care of us, do maintenance work on the house and whatever we needed.

I don't care if he is mostly honest. Get it in writing. The best way to do that is a divorce. You will get child support and alimony enforced by the courts.

"You don't get a lover and a wife. If you really love her, go be with her, but no longer as my husband."

You know what the other option is. The cake eating and self-torture continue.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1648   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8698930
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 8:48 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

Hi everyone. Today has been a bad one. Kids expressed their hurt and anger to H and instead of understanding their scathing words come from a place of pain he backlashed and said he would have nothing to do with us.

This triggered a horrible panic attack and the one I have always turned to is him. Called and begged him to continue therapy scheduled for tomorrow. Told him he needs to see past their anger to the hurt underneath it all. My kids have done nothing but cry in the 48 hours since he left. I’m gutted watching them live in the torture of the pain. He promised he would be here tomorrow and he was hurt by the things they said. Part of his initial reaction was "I’m not gong to be their whipping boy". They have a right to their feelings right now. How can he continue to think about himself and his happiness. He feels he has sacrificed enough for us. They can’t understand that! They are his children!!

I know I am partly at fault for what I did in the past. You don’t think I live in that every day? I point the finger at myself constantly but my IC tells me I need to stop that and this part is on him. I was stupid and did terrible things and hurt him but I never once thought about leaving my family.

I am starting to take necessary steps even though he constantly tells me he will support us. I want to believe him so badly. I told him today that he promised he would always be there for me and us and I need that support. It was a weak moment in which I was terrified. Kids did not see this as I am trying to be strong for them.

Both stayed home with me today as the pain they are in is so great. Please remember they have mental health issues as well and coping with something like this is beyond their scope of understanding. I greatly appreciate the comforting words from those of you that can see past what I did and understand the pain my kids are going through. I don’t even care about myself anymore. I wish he would just come home for them.

It’s been a bad one and the nights are even worse. For all of us. Except him…he has the comforting arms of OW.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:04 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:27 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8698939
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 9:27 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

keljpvs: I need to ask... why do you avoid responding to any advice regarding hiring a lawyer? If you're going to protect yourself and your kids, you really need advice on what your rights and expectations are, and what you need to do now that your husband has walked out on you. At this point, you know he is duplicitous, so none of the promises he has made matter. As Catwoman said, you need a temporary support order in place to ensure that you and your kids are cared for and that he doesn't squander shared marital funds and assets with his OW while you're still married.

It goes without saying that you need IC for yourself and your kids. I assume that if your kids have diagnosed mental health issues that they already have an IC... that person needs to be looped into the situation as soon as possible. If your kids are in school, I recommend you contact their school and let them know about the situation, which may impact their behavior and academic performance. You don't have to disclose all the gory details; just let the school know that your husband has left the home and that your kids are struggling to cope.

You have no control over what your husband is doing or feeling at this very moment; stop dwelling on that and instead direct your energy at things that are within your control, such as protecting yourself legally and financially, and seeking out whatever resources are available to help your kids.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8698945
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CutieCakes ( new member #75917) posted at 10:24 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

I am sorry for your pain... But any energy you exhaust on him is only fueling their bond and making it stronger. Your husband knows he can have you back at anytime. AP knows this too so she is doing extra to keep him. Let that be your fuel to cut him loose. I'll say it again... the harder you work to keep him, the harder she works to keep him. Remember that. It's time to move differently. If you want to fight for marriage, do so, but change your plan. The crying and begging will not work. Just my opinion of what I've read but using the children as leverage will not work either. Take care, I hope things work in out in your favor.

No vanity ...my screen name is actually from my favorite online game.

posts: 13   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2020
id 8698959
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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 10:42 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

OP - I agree with others that you need to hire an attorney to protect yourself. You can't rely on your WH words that he will take care of you and your children.

I suggest you stop the begging. He is deep in the fog and I am sure he has a lot of resentment towards you due to your past indiscretion. Any and all attempts to make him see the hurt you and your children are suffering, in my opinion, will only be seen by him as manipulative tactics. How dare you use the kids as pawns type of things. Although it is hard, take a step back from asking him to come back. As CutieCake pointed out, he knows he can come back anytime if he wants to. There is no incentive for him to stop. Taking care of yourself and kids should be your first priority (and hiring an attorney).

Good Luck.

posts: 177   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8698962
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 11:10 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

My kids have done nothing but cry in the 48 hours since he left. I’m gutted watching them live in the torture of the pain. He promised he would be here tomorrow and he was hurt by the things they said. Part of his initial reaction was "I’m not gong to be their whipping boy". They have a right to their feelings right now. How can he continue to think about himself and his happiness. He feels he has sacrificed enough for us. They can’t understand that! They are his children!!

I want you to read your own words over and over until you see him for who he is right now. This is who you're dealing with. This man is acting like the victim in the face of his childrens' tears. He is saying he has sacrificed enough for "us", and "us" is you and HIS children. Those children are as much his as they are yours. He is lumping you and the kids in as one entity, as if he can just nope out of parenting and leave that to you. Listen to the advice about seeing an attorney. You have to treat him like the person he is showing you he is. This is what's real right now. You have plenty of time to go into what you did and who he used to be in therapy later on. Right now, this is your situation and you have to deal with it as it stands today.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8698967
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 11:41 PM on Wednesday, November 17th, 2021

I’m starting to see that all of you are right. The begging stops here and now. When he comes over tomorrow to cook dinner for the kids and have our session I’m just going to put a smile on and say I’m glad you’re here. I will say how I feel in counseling and I’m hoping the therapist can get him to see why his children feel so hurt and are telling him things that are making him mad. He’s fucked in the head right now and can’t see past his OW to save his life. Blinders are quite a thing I tell you.

I am doing things to protect myself. Can’t afford an attorney right now but I am taking steps and doing what I can to protect the kids and the only home they have known. I wallowed in my self pity for the past 48 hours but it’s time to take control.

I told the kids they have their own relationship with their father that has nothing to do with him and I. I’m hoping the more I let go and the more space I give him, he can figure things out. I’ve finally realized that as hard as I try I cannot change the outcome of all of this but I can change my behavior. And for my own mental well being I have to.

Yes kids already have IC and have appointments set up over the next week. I took off work this week and I’m being allowed to fully telework for a few weeks after that so the kids don’t feel alone. School has been informed as well since youngest is in a special program for kids with mental health issues. Hoping they go back tomorrow.

I know I will have moments that I crack and fall apart but my kids are watching and it’s time to show them what a strong woman looks like. I want them to love and respect their father and I’m hoping he gets the guidance he needs to rebuild what he has torn down with his actions.

Grateful for all of you. It’s been a tough couple of days. Hoping and praying for peace for my kids tonight as we are all worn and weary and sleep deprived.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:04 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:28 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8698973
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:41 AM on Thursday, November 18th, 2021

I am glad to see a strong message from you. Keep it up. This strength and refusing to be his doormat are what is needed for you and your children. Maybe he will discover what he is losing, but if he doesn't, you and your children will get through this much better if you continue to strengthen yourself.

posts: 441   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8698980
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Walkthestorm ( member #72157) posted at 12:09 PM on Thursday, November 18th, 2021

OP I am glad you are getting emotionally stronger and putting on a brave front even when all you want to do is crawl under a rock and have someone wake you up in a year or two.

The confrontation where you stood your ground and said you could not do this anymore is a great start. Just think about what you need as a next step and what you are willing or not willing to accept moving forward. I am sure your H would love to ride the emotional roller coster for months if not years dragging things along, not making decisions, enjoying the two women fighting for him etc. When do you get off the ride? Or if you are not willing to get off just yet, what are you able to tolerate?

For example, are you OK with him coming and going between the two hosueholds or would you perfeer he sees the kids outside your home to give yourself some space? If he is swaying in his resolve on whome to choose, how long are you going to tolerate that before you make a decision? It's worth talking to your IC about setting new boundries for yourself and making a plan that guarantees your and your kids well being.

Pleae also remember that you can not let him derail your mental health any further! Right now you are the only sane parent your kids have and they can't afford to have their mom breaking down mentally. Think about this.

posts: 89   ·   registered: Nov. 26th, 2019
id 8699028
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 1:12 PM on Thursday, November 18th, 2021

Frankly, you cannot NOT afford an attorney right now. I'm dead serious. Whatever you need to do to get one, do it.

He cannot be trusted. Read that over and over again until it sinks in. He CANNOT be trusted.

Look at his actions--he was saying JUST ENOUGH to keep you in the marriage and JUST ENOUGH to keep the OW on the side. That is not a trustworthy person.

I don't think it's a good idea to let him come and go at will, and I really don't see where couples therapy helps in any way right now. I would cancel dinner and the therapy session and let him know that there's no need to come over or participate in therapy because there is nothing to save at present. Then turn OFF your phone or at least set his ring tone to silent. Same for texts. The kids are with you, so he doesn't need to reach you at the moment. Tell the kids that you just need some space and you will set up some time for them to see their father next week. He can take them out to dinner--you do not need to provide visitation at your home. Tell them that you feel a little space from him benefits them as well.

You really need an attorney. I would beg, borrow or barter anything to get a good one. You need emergency orders, and you need (if it is allowable in your state) an order that prohibits the children from contact with his romantic partner(s) for a period of time. Since they have mental health issues, this should be easier to have granted. Of course, it's difficult to enforce, but if he would abide by it, it would help. I would also suggest a financial restraining order and a no-move-outside-x-miles order as well.

Anything that you petition to get, such as no contact with romantic partners, would also apply to you, but I'm not seeing that as a problem.

My offer still stands to assist you privately with finding an attorney. You need one.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 32986   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8699035
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:03 PM on Thursday, November 18th, 2021

Please, find a good attorney, today if possible.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:05 PM, Thursday, November 18th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26513   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8699065
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:18 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

Keljpvs... what's transpiring now? How are you hanging in there with your newfound strength?

posts: 441   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8700209
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 3:23 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

@Trdd it’s not going well. He’s been to our home quite a few days since he left and I cannot rip myself away from him. I am so messed up in the head and broken. I keep doing things for him, I continue to love him so much the pain every day is almost more than I can stand. He keeps telling me he loves me. We have slept together once last night. He stayed over to prep early for Thanksgiving. He ran around the house all day doing things for me. Was supposed to spend the night again tonight but he started turning cold and before I knew it he was packing up more stuff and said he never told me that. He wasn’t mean but straight forward. Kissed the kids and me and said goodbye. I’m sure I will continue to be the doormat in the hopes he will come back. I’m sure I’ve disappointed everyone. I miss him more than words can explain.

We have started discernment counseling. And had a couple sessions. The therapist really had to drill into him the betrayal that he has committed. He finally admitted that yes he did betray me. More small lies keep flowing from his mouth. He changed the pass code on his phone.

He keeps telling me he’s never coming back but then his actions show he still loves me. His attitude changes all the time and I grow more and more confused.

I’m choosing this path…this torture and I know that. I don’t know if it’s because I feel I deserve it or just the horrible pain I’m in or both.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:03 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:28 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8700222
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 5:50 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

I’m sure I’ve disappointed everyone.

Keep in mind that this is your life. It's not a democracy. We don't get a vote. You don't have to (and indeed you shouldn't) make major, life-altering decisions to avoid disappointing anyone here.

The question to ask yourself, always, is why you want to do what you're doing. Do you believe this course of action is healthy for you, healthy for your kids, and likely to achieve your best outcome? If you did, I don't think you'd have come back here. If, in the other hand, it's your voice, not ours, telling you that what you're doing isn't in service of the smartest goal for you, then that's what you need to work on.

I can't pretend to support the pick-me dance, but I give you credit for coming back and updating us. This is an anonymous forum, after all. You could tell us anything we want to hear, collect cheers for throwing him out on his ass, and we'd never know the difference. If you came here with the truth, it's because you feel we still have something to offer, and you know it's unlikely to be endorsement of this choice. So what drew you back? How can we help?

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8700230
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 5:51 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

I’m sure I’ve disappointed everyone.

No, it's just hard for people to watch you suffer.

I had a relationship like this many years ago, before my H, and it caused me tremendous pain. Tremendous. It took so long to get away from someone who was hurting me constantly (60% of the time? That's a lot of suffering, but I clung to the 40% feel good). Individual counseling saved my life--without question. I was drowning in triggery feelings that went way back to childhood and not feeling good enough to be loved. Those feelings were back yet again whenever I tried to leave my boyfriend. Why doesn't he love me enough to change? Why am I so unworthy of love? I did not know how to let someone go and feel any worth.

I couldn't bear the suffocating feelings of total unlovability, but eventually my IC propped me up enough to help me see that allowing the grief for the hurt and shame in my younger years, letting the debilitating pain just come, would allow it to leave forever. And that's what I finally did. I let the feelings of worthlessness just come. And eventually go. When those clouds finally parted, sweet relief.

I've never regretted leaving someone who so mistreated me. What I felt for him was not love, it was addiction. It was avoidance of pain and emptiness. It was childhood validation decades later. But it was not love.

You'll get there.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:09 AM, Friday, November 26th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5349   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8700231
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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 6:02 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

No, it's just hard for people to watch you suffer.

This.

OP, good luck.

posts: 177   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8700234
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Rasputina ( member #57751) posted at 6:11 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

keljpvs --

I'm speaking to you now from my position as a betrayed child long since grown, and it's going to be some very tough love.

Love because my heart absolutely aches for you, and for the intense pain and upheaval your family is collectively experiencing.

Tough because tonight I sit in watchful vigil for an adult sibling who almost every year on this day completely disintegrates due to the decisions and behaviors of our long dead, abusive, cheating father coupled with our mother who struggled to set safe boundaries for her children many, many years ago until her hand was forced...and I see some of that in your story.

Do you know what my mother is doing tonight? After the turkey and pies are all put away, and the guests long gone? She's sitting in the dark of her kitchen by the phone, waiting for contact from either her very troubled adult child, or the police who are out looking at the place she was told she could expect to find their body earlier tonight. She's either going to get a call for a ride home or the kind of notification no parent wants to receive. This has happened many times before over many years, and I hope the outcome will not be worst case scenario tonight.

I share this because you seem to be so focused on the present of this man that you perhaps can't see the future of your children. My family is a glimpse of that possible future.

You are choosing this sick man over your children when you choose to submerge yourself in this toxic dynamic.

I'm sorry if it's hard hearing that unsavory truth. If it's any consolation, it's much harder living that as the child caught up in the nasty undertow.

Your husband isn't choosing you. Your husband isn't choosing his children. Your husband isn't being any kind of good father or partner right now; he's being an addict, drugged with all the incredibly intense feelings his behavior is eliciting in his unhealthy brain. Addicts are selfish. Addicts are unsafe. You cannot change an addict, no matter how much you love them. You cannot love an addict into how you think they should act.

Why are you letting an addict into your home...your bed...your children's safe place? Why are you letting an addict steal their future wellness and potential well-being?

Your children are trapped in this abusive, toxic, unhealthy family dynamic...swirling in orbit around the kind of toxic foundational relationship that leads to crippling issues in later life...and it WILL poison them if one of their parents doesn't start choosing them.

Right now neither of your children's parents are choosing them.

Are you mom enough to change that?

Are you mom enough to put the wife...the wayward...the guilt...the longing...the co-dependency...all of that aside to throw a life raft to your children?

I'll tell you one thing. My mother desperately wishes she could go back in time to do that tonight, but that window has long since closed. Children don't stay children forever. Sometimes they become very broken adults.

Sometimes the right choices feel impossible.

And sometimes love means being tough.

Sometimes with yourself.

🖤

"Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be." – Clementine Paddleford

posts: 100   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2017
id 8700235
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 6:30 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

What a wake-up call ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️. She is telling you exactly what will happen to your children. Your husband is gone. He did Thanksgiving with his family and quickly left to go back to his lover.

This is the truth, your truth. You and your husband have wrecked your marriage. You need to accept that and plan your future without him. What you are seeing in his behavior is not commitment to you but a man slowly moving out. I don’t necessarily think he is being deliberately cruel. You marriage meant something to him at one time. I don’t think he has figured out how to leave because he hung on so long but he IS moving out. Please accept that for your kids sake. They only have this one childhood. Please don’t make it worse.

When someone walks away let them go
TD Jakes

posts: 3109   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8700239
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 10:57 AM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

My advice to keljpvs is to save herself from this abuse. People who are allowed to abuse us will not necessarily stop. But she is very focused on her WS's behaviors below:

He keeps telling me he loves me. We have slept together once last night. He stayed over to prep early for Thanksgiving. He ran around the house all day doing things for me. Was supposed to spend the night again tonight


He keeps telling me he’s never coming back but then his actions show he still loves me. His attitude changes all the time and I grow more and more confused.

Then we say the following, like Cooley2here wrote:

Your husband is gone. He did Thanksgiving with his family and quickly left to go back to his lover

.

What you are seeing in his behavior is not commitment to you but a man slowly moving out...Your marriage meant something to him at one time. I don’t think he has figured out how to leave because he hung on so long but he IS moving out. Please accept that for your kids sake.

I think what keljpvs is thinking when she reads this is, "Then why does he tell me he loves me, have sex with me, stay overnight, and do kind things for me if he definitely does not love me?" Until we can explain how we know that, she will stick with her hope. Anyone? Is Cooley right, is he definitely out of the M and leaving? That's what keljpvs isn't buying and stays because of it.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5349   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8700276
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 12:24 PM on Friday, November 26th, 2021

OP - at the counseling session I understand that you discussed your WH A and betrayal. Did your A get discussed, and were your WH actions discussed in that context? Or, was each A discussed separately, assuming that your A was actually discussed?

posts: 210   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8700280
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