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Complicated relationship

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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 12:35 AM on Thursday, November 11th, 2021

I have looked through some poly + mono relationship stuff online and they talk about these kind of boundaries but theirs have direct consequences.

OP - Gently. From the above, IMO you seem to be stuck in the mind set of finding a quick fix and convince yourself to accept the unacceptable. You can set all the boundaries in the world but if your husband continuing this affair is a deal breaker to you then do what This0is0Fine suggested. Tell him straight up and if he doesn't see it your way, that tells you enough to make a decision. Nothing worse that stuck in your current situation with no end in sight.

Good Luck.

posts: 177   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8697939
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 9:46 PM on Thursday, November 11th, 2021

keljpvs, this is a site about getting out of infidelity-- that could mean getting separated, divorced, or the cheating spouse stops screwing around. The point is, no one here is going to give you advice on how to best suck it up and tolerate that your husband has a girlfriend.

And quite honestly, you don't have the luxury of spending endless time debating the nuances of monogamy vs polyamory with a husband who is actively cheating on you. As you have said, your kids have serious mental health issues. Your kids need a safe, stable, and predictable environment... not a household where their father constantly lies to them about where he is and what he's doing when he dashes out at night, leaving their mother home anxious or sobbing. I realize that you're concerned about how separating from your husband will impact your kids, but you also need to consider the negative effects of maintaining the status quo.

How much mental and emotional energy are you wasting on your husband and his OW that ought to be focused on them? How much time and emotional energy is your husband robbing from them when he's pining for and spending time with the OW? What happens to them when they eventually find out about her? What will the long-term effects be for your family?

I will also reiterate something I said in my earlier post that was unacknowledged. If this woman has 4 kids that she doesn't see and is carrying on an affair with your husband, she is not a responsible, ethical, or even reasonable person. She could get pregnant with baby #5 by your husband, and if you haven't yet filed for divorce and child support, her child will get first dibs on child support before your kids. Even if you stay married, she will be getting a cut of your marital resources. If your husband still loves OW or is interested in being a father to the child, OW and her child will also be a part of your life and your kids' life forever. Is that possibility acceptable to you?

Again, I'm not disparaging you for wanting you to stay married or pressuring you to get divorced... I'm trying to give you a full picture of your current situation and the risks that you are taking by doing nothing.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8698007
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 4:42 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021

I'm sorry you're here but your M is a sham and you should end it if he insists on seeing OW. Stop worrying about boundaries, it's clear as day you're not comfortable with the situation, tell him he's got 30 seconds to decide, otherwise you will see a D attorney on Monday and file for D.

posts: 2499   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8698310
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FairyTaleGone ( member #79059) posted at 9:04 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021

How did MC go?

DDay 1 - 2/19/21 (found out about EA)
DDay 2 - 5/22/21 (TT found burner phone)
DDay 3 - 6/9/21 (TT found out about PA)

EA/PA ended 3/22/21 -WH went NC
Working on R
13yr old DD at home - unfortunately knows way too much

posts: 81   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2021
id 8698331
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 10:16 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021

@FairyTaleGone MC went ok. It was more going over our history. He made it clear he is mostly out of the marriage. He’s so in love with the OW. He cried after and told me he wished there was a way to do all this without me ending up broken. Therapist wants us to work on identifying our emotional needs before the next session. We were both honest so that’s something.

He keeps popping up with last minute visits to OW and I can’t take it anymore. Need to have a talk tonight. Either we stick to the weekly schedule or I can’t do this anymore. I’m more depressed about the situation than I have been. Still have a lot of anxiety too but hope is waning for me.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:06 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:23 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8698332
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 11:13 PM on Saturday, November 13th, 2021

Sorry, Kel. This confirms what many of us thought. He has one foot out the door and is only trying to figure out how to land safely when he's ready to pull the trigger on D.

posts: 5078   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8698334
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 12:09 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021

Did he say why he wanted out of the marriage? I think it matters because you need to know whether he can’t get over your A, whether it’s because he’s infatuated with his girlfriend, or a combination,

posts: 210   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8698340
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 12:29 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021

@Dude67 he said he’s never felt the same about me since the A and he wanted to leave back then but stayed for the kids. Committed himself to us and even found a way to be happy. However, now someone has chased him and wants him and they have never hurt him.

I know my tone has changed. I’m so depressed I don’t care about anything anymore. Except my kids. I feel it’s very clear he doesn’t want to be with me but I’m keeping this relationship up until after the holidays for the kids. He wants to continue therapy with me and at the very least salvage our friendship.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:06 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:23 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8698341
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 1:25 AM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021

However, now someone has chased him and wants him and they have never hurt him.

He has some serious projection going on there. What's the likelihood that she actually wants him for who he is as opposed to the opportunity he represents? And what qualities does she possess other than telling him what he wants to hear? He says himself that her main attraction for him is the feelings she gives him -- feeling wanted, feeling needed, feeling safe. It's an illusion, but unfortunately, it's a powerful one.

When the new shiny wears off, and they aren't telling each other that they fart rainbows, you'd better believe they'll hurt each other. But before they get there, they'll hurt you most of all -- if you let them.

Kels, for the sake of your children, you're going to have to go Mama Bear sooner rather than later. OW is a serpent in his ear, and I guarantee you that she is out to take not just your husband, but your money and security as well. The way she sees it, the money belongs to him and he belongs to her, so you and your kids are irrelevant. You MUST take that seriously and move to protect yourself before she gets pregnant with his child. You're playing chess with OW now. Don't underestimate her.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8698347
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FairyTaleGone ( member #79059) posted at 1:55 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Oh I am so sorry to hear this update. I was hoping that he would have some kind of epiphany in MC.

He is living in a fantasy world, and is seeing exactly what he wants to see in both you and her. He has to make you a villain and her a unicorn that farts rainbows in order to continue his escapade with her. Don’t take his words about you and your situation as fact…he is saying them to make himself feel better about his abhorrent behavior.

Time to think about yourself. Protect yourself emotionally, physically and financially.

1. Don’t let the games he’s playing make you feel different about yourself. HE is making these choices because HE WANTS TO. Not because of something you did. You BOTH agreed to this reconciliation…he changed the terms. HIS decision.

2. I would keep my distance intimately. If he’s saying he doesn’t want you or the marriage anymore, then stop doing "married" things for him. Stop allowing him to be a cake-eater. No kissing, no sex, and don’t be his shoulder to cry on. If he’s torn up…good…he should be. You have enough on your plate, you don’t have to deal with his crap, too!

3. I would speak to an attorney ASAP! If he really is going to leave, then you should at the very least know what this situation will look like for you and know all of your options. When I was doing this during my WH’s A, I looked at it less like something I was doing for myself and more like I was protecting my daughter. Our finances directly impact her quality of life.

Beyond those three things, just take care of yourself. Try to eat, drink as much water as you can. Be kind to yourself. You are going through some trauma right now and it is not easy. I let everything that wasn’t essential In my life go. I did exactly what I NEEDED to do and that was it. Give yourself grace and get as much rest as possible.

I know it doesn’t seem like it right now, but you’re going to be ok…with or without him. And we are all here at SI to help you through whatever comes next! Sending huge virtual hugs!

DDay 1 - 2/19/21 (found out about EA)
DDay 2 - 5/22/21 (TT found burner phone)
DDay 3 - 6/9/21 (TT found out about PA)

EA/PA ended 3/22/21 -WH went NC
Working on R
13yr old DD at home - unfortunately knows way too much

posts: 81   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2021
id 8698508
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:06 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Therapist wants us to work on identifying our emotional needs before the next session. We were both honest so that’s something.

For Pete's sake, your husband has admitted that he is "mostly out of the marriage" and this is what your therapist proposes?!

Allow me to save you a few hundred dollars an hour that you are paying this quack:

Your emotional need is for a monogamous relationship with your husband.

Your husband's emotional need is to be in a full-time relationship with his OW without having to go through the expense and inconvenience of divorce.

Honest question, keljpvs: What do you have to work with here?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:08 PM, Monday, November 15th]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8698541
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 5:26 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

I'm sorry this happening. But you have to get in the game for your kids.

Right now you need to make sure at the VERY LEAST your kid are financially stable. They will not have emotionally stable parents for while so you need to protect what you can.

FUCK THAT DUDE! Right now he is an danger to your children.. TREAT HIM AS SUCH

posts: 2030   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8698544
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 6:05 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

I agree with BSR and prissy. At least get some legal advice in case he jumps ship sooner than later so that your kids are protected.

I'm sure you're thinking he would never do that. He would never do anything to hurt them. He would never fight what would be fair in a separation given it would affect their lives. Truthfully, we have no idea if he will or not. This is unprecedented territory given you also probably never thought that he would shack up with OW and throw your family, kids included, into jeopardy like this either. So no one knows what he will do until it happens. But what we do know is that he is making poor choices right now. He is not considering the ramifications much to anyone but himself. He is choosing a woman who has completely tossed her kids to the wayside and likely lies to herself about the consequences they face because of it. At best, she's a bad influence and at worst, she's whispering pretty little lies and justifications into his ear about what S/D will be like for him, you, and them. That may include an unwillingness to work with you and be fair even if it means a downgrade for them. It may include fighting you on custody so that they can play happy family. And it all may be justified with that you started this or lack character because you cheated first. We just don't know and what we do know looks very bad.

The stakes are high and the risk is abundant. You don't have the luxury of falling to pieces and limboing in hopes that everything is fine in a few months. Please fight for them.

posts: 5078   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8698550
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 6:28 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Most MC's shouldn't be willing to see you with an ongoing A.

"I'm sorry, while there is an ongoing A, there is no M, and therefore nothing for me to treat."

I think you and your H are going to get wrapped around the "unmet needs" fallacy axle, especially because it will appeal to you to some degree as madhatter. "Yes, I also cheated because MY needs were unmet!" The problem is, only the cheater is responsible for their cheating. Unmet needs is a blame shifting maneuver that externalizes the decision to cheat on the environmental factors.

This is almost like blaming weather, or anything else that isn't under your control. If you are told to rain dance, and it doesn't rain, is it your fault?

"If you just meet his needs, he won't want to cheat". Nope that's bullshit. Cheating is like dessert. If you give someone a complete healthy meal, that doesn't satisfy their desire to also have dessert. A marriage, by it's very nature, cannot scratch the itch of an A. It isn't illicit, it isn't fueled by fantasies, and is bound to the practical realities of family management and living.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1648   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8698552
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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 7:35 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Keli,

I'm going to be very short and direct. You cannot "leave him". It doesn't matter what you did before. You are being abused and you don't leave an abuse cycle. You escape it. Please please please get out of there ASAP. What he is doing to you is no better than punching you in the face, but instead of a mark on the outside you are getting marks on the inside.

Please please please stop looking at this like something that you are a participant in. You are a victim. There is a marked difference between the two.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 8698564
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 7:40 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Is there a reason why you haven't seen an attorney yet? You need to understand your legal position here, particularly if he gets her pregnant or decides he wants to move where she's planning on moving or he is fired for his relationship with her. These are ALL things that could happen, and you need to be prepared for them. You need to understand what you can logically expect in a divorce with things like child support, parenting time and other issues.

He's cake-eating. The way you deal with a cake-eater is closing the bakery.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 32986   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8698566
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 keljpvs (original poster member #79553) posted at 4:58 AM on Tuesday, November 16th, 2021

He’s gone. Me and the kids are devastated. He started spending more and more time with OW despite my desperate pleas for him to slow it down. He was with her again today and I saw it on my lunch break. I had a panic attack that rivaled all others and knew I can’t do this anymore.

Came home, told him I can’t. Very quickly he was ready with a response saying how do you want to tell the kids. That triggered another panic attack. Hyperventilating and the whole bit. He started crying at that point. I told him I can’t believe this is happening. The nightmare is coming true. He packed an overnight bag and told the kids exactly what he’s done. They cried, begged him stay. He cried and out his head down as my oldest called the other woman every name in the book and called him out on his behavior. He hugged them both, kissed me and said he loved me and walked out the door. I was at the top of the stairs and collapsed when the door clicked shut.

I’m heartbroken, devastated. My poor children. He picked OW over them. I got to thinking that it seemed he was too quick when I came home and said I couldn’t do this. He left his iPad. I went through the messages. He’s been playing me for a fool. She’s been pressuring him and it looked like there was a bit of plotting going on behind my back. It seems he started seeing her more to push me over the edge. Now I’m devastated yet again and I obviously can no longer trust him.

I’m a shell that once housed the soul of a living breathing human being but is no full of nothing but pain and heartache. And our poor kids who begged him to stay. How could he look at them crying like that and still walk out the door?

I’ve been crying for hours and so have they. I don’t know what to do. The house is so quiet without him here. He went straight to her place and the kids saw it for themselves in their phones. They love him but are so angry at him. As they have every right to be. Now I wonder if I did the right thin. Not sucking it up for them to be his used up piece of shit wife. We were out as a family a couple weekends ago and he posted the pics to FB. OW got angry cause he didn’t say anything about me going too. She called him out and said he’s playing us both. That’s when her manipulation started and he’s so scared to lose her he kept fucking with me to break me. How could the love of my life for 25 years do this to us?

I don’t know what else to say. I’m laying in a very empty bed contemplating what I want to do but can’t cause of the kids. Wishing death would just take me.

He called me tonight…before I saw texts and told me how sorry he is we are so hurt and he loves me. Wants to come over tomorrow and talk. I told him before he left this will always be his home and he’s welcome at any time. And I would take him back in a heartbeat if things don’t work out. I wanted to beg him to come back when he called. Do I tell him I saw the texts? That I know what was really going on and this gutted the last bit of who I once was?

Just tell me what to do. Please. I can’t hurt like this anymore.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:05 PM, Monday, December 6th]

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:24 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 58   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8698638
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:17 AM on Tuesday, November 16th, 2021

Do I tell him I saw the texts? That I know what was really going on and this gutted the last bit of who I once was?


What is your desired outcome? Is your goal to shame him into coming back? Or do you want to rescind your open door policy?

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 603   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8698641
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 5:46 AM on Tuesday, November 16th, 2021

Do I tell him I saw the texts? That I know what was really going on and this gutted the last bit of who I once was?

Just tell me what to do. Please. I can’t hurt like this anymore.

First thing to do is... breathe. Just breathe. Getting a few deep, slow breaths can actually help lower the blood pressure. First responders learn it as "four-square breathing"... in-two-three-four, hold-two-three-four, out-tow-three-four, hold-two-three-four, and repeat.

Next thing... the texts. Ordinarily, I'd tell a BS to keep their cards close to the vest, and that if they had a means of checking up on a WS like an iPad they've left behind, that they'd do well to hold onto that advantage. But you are a former WS. That means that you must ALWAYS put honesty first. So, yes... I'd tell him what I saw. And I'd tell him that I know that the two of them conspired against me, and that it's a very painful thing.

Kels, this is NOT over yet. That OW is a piece of work and sometimes a BS can't see it until he's given up all he had and then realizes that what he got in exchange was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Is your WH really willing to move to wherever her kids are? He's going to leave his behind and go raise hers? Honestly, if he's that callous, you're better off without him. But you're wringing your hands in loss, so I have to believe that there's got to be SOME decency somewhere in this guy. He KNOWS the OW has been plotting and maneuvering. He was there with her while she was doing it, and even though it probably felt fantastic to be wanted by her or whatever, the first time she disappoints him, he's going to be thinking about the fact that she really has NO COMPUNCTIONS when it comes to fucking a married man.

Of course, you don't have any guarantees, but Reality has a way of busting through wayward thinking, just like it once did for you. All of the sudden you realize what you're losing, right? That OW is no better than you are. He says "she hasn't hurt me"... but she has. She's maneuvered him out of his home, away from his kids, and away from his wife of twenty-five years. She's cost him that. But he won't FEEL it unless you toughen up a little. And I'm not talking about filing for divorce right now or any of that stuff. But I do think you need to see an attorney and you need to start thinking about the poison this OW is pouring in his ear. You've been married 25 years now. Depending on what your finances look like and how much your earning potential is, divorce might be quite expensive for him. Bear in mind that if it comes to that, he'll be sharing whatever he has left with OW, so you would want to make sure you were getting EVERYTHING possible for you and your kids.

I don't think it's necessary to stop talking to him right this moment. After all, you've been very open about your desire to continue the marriage. But I do think you'd be wise to introduce some reality. That means seeing an attorney, or even better, interviewing three attorneys. Your WH needs to know that divorce is the last thing you want, but that if it comes to that, you're not going to be a pushover. You've got kids to think about and he's NOT putting them first right now.

Remember also that you need to be healthy for your family. I know it's really hard to think about self-care when your heart is hurting, but it's so important. Eat what you can, even if it's just protein shakes and nibbling fruit and veggies. Stay hydrated, but avoid alcohol altogether. Sleep when you can and see your doctor if you're having trouble with it. That will give you an opportunity for STD testing as well, and you should. Try also to get a little bit of light exercise.

You're going to be okay. Really. No matter how this thing pans out, you DO have everything you need to get through it. Trust yourself. You are enough.

((hugs))

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:49 AM, Tuesday, November 16th]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4886   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8698646
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 11:26 AM on Tuesday, November 16th, 2021

I had a panic attack that rivaled all others and knew I can’t do this anymore.

Came home, told him I can’t.

This is the real you, the healthy you, the honest you. You. Cannot. Live. This. Way.

I fear if you allow him to stay, you will suffer a mental health collapse that will put you in a hospital at best. At worst, I fear you will do something more drastic. Is that what you want for your kids?

How did IC go last week? When do you go again? MC is a joke. He is not in the marriage. But you need support. Can you see that? Can you see that doing the right thing is very difficult and you need support? Maybe you can go to IC twice per week.

You keep asking how you can make this end, how you can stop hurting, how you can survive this. We are all telling you--by letting him go. By getting tough for your kids. Your abandonment issues strike me as severe (I relate) and you must face the pain and fear head on if you ever want it to end. As my IC used to say, "The only way to face this is to walk through it." You must let the pain stay. Sit with it. Keep it. Allow it. It will go away on its own in time. Do not try to fix it with him to end the pain now because the pain and fear live in you already. Let them out by NOT trying to get him back.

He called me tonight…before I saw texts and told me how sorry he is we are so hurt and he loves me. Wants to come over tomorrow and talk.

NOW he wants to talk? Shocking.

Listen. To. Us. We know what we are talking about. Crying is not the worst thing in the world for the three of you--continuing this shit show is. Another of my favorite IC quotes. "Nobody ever died from crying."

You have ONE requirement in this "talk": she is gone 100%. Do not negotiate on this. Stand. Your. Ground. Go NC except kids, finances, and this one requirement. Save yourself by standing your ground.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5349   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8698657
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