SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

do you guys think IC would be beneficial to my situation?

yes.

Have you considered deleting Facebook?

Have you ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist for diagnostic testing? Poor impulse control and lack of empathy can be symptoms of mental disorders. If you have executive functioning problems or are on the autism spectrum, then no amount of white knuckling can change it. You need specific therapy and possibly medication to overcome those issues.

The problem we have as waywards is that shame is a double edged sword. We need to feel enough of it to give us incentive to change. If we feel too much, it overwhelms us, and we either run and hide or go on the offensive. To me, it looks like you're hiding. You don't want to face what you're doing to your BW, so you numb yourself emotionally, and then the numbness makes your life feel empty and pointless, so you go online to make yourself feel better. She catches you, you feel enough fear and remorse to break the numbness, but you don't have the tools to actually fix the problem. So eventually you go back to numbing yourself, and the cycle repeats.

It's hard to do the work of recovery when your entire history screams at you that you're just going to fail again. Start with a therapist, but not just for talk therapy. Ask for testing. See if there's a way to make this easier to tackle. Don't kid yourself: even if they find something, it's not a magic bullet. You've worn your coping mechanisms into a groove that's hard to escape, and you've ground down your wife's trust. You'll still need to work your ass off. But maybe it could stabilize the ground you're building on.

And don't be afraid of the term 'mental disorder'. You may be ADD or ADHD - poor impulse control is a symptom of both. Getting a good diagnosis may help. A good IC will help, for sure, if you want to change.

Dragn and I talked about me doing IC it didn't go well as many time I was reffered to one it was always a woman. Dragn was not comfortable with that and I do understand that.

It is hard I do try and do small things for her I do text when I am leaving work. I also text when I arrive. I write down my hours so she knows what I am working. So if somthing doesn't Match-up or I am late she will know if I am off messing around..
She really does appreciate that I do try and do that for her. I also don't go out alone I always have one of my kids with me. I am never alone. Doing all this kinda makes me feel like a prisoner in my own life constantly.
I took the afternoon off today and dragn and I had a good afternoon. Talking and being a couple with kids in school.

As for the metal disorders when able too will be calling my family doctor see if he has some options I can go through

It is hard I do try and do small things for her I do text when I am leaving work. I also text when I arrive. I write down my hours so she knows what I am working. So if somthing doesn't Match-up or I am late she will know if I am off messing around..
She really does appreciate that I do try and do that for her. I also don't go out alone I always have one of my kids with me. I am never alone. 

okay but... none of that matters when you are still searching for casual encounters, your actions prove you're not safe so therefore those actions don't mean much. Your phone is the source of your cheating, what have you done there to make her feel safe? Did you delete Facebook? You can also download a variety of apps so that she can monitor your activity (location and phone activity) to help ease her traumatized brain.

I'm sure dragn would love nothing more than to not have to worry about you, not have to play detective, not treat you like a teenager, not require all these "prison" like actions. You are in a so called prison because you are married and continue to cheat on your wife. If you had done an ounce of work 10 years ago, your life would look very different today.

No Stop Sign here - BS thoughts particularly on SI. My WS and I are on SI. He bled victimhood, shame, deflection, blame you name it right here on SI. He was so distorted and twisted over what he had done that he became completely entitled and it showed. In fact SI helped so much - he'd say something to me with great confidence and I'd suggest he post it on SI to get feedback. Wham, smack, bam he'd get honest feedback and start to see that my commentary was more on track than not. And he knew those who supported me because of course we are both on here.

Use it as a tool to help. Leverage the folks who take the time to tell you honestly what you likely don't want to hear. I sense you are in a panic and thus the victim is coming out.

Doing all this kinda makes me feel like a prisoner in my own life constantly.

Who caused this? Who proved to be untrustworthy? If you really love her as you say, you'd be only too happy to be tracked because it would so be worth staying with Dragn. You'd do anything to save the relationship. Instead you are worrying about you and I'd bet Dragn knows it. I certainly knew it when my WS did such things and I'd reject his overtures because I knew they were not genuine.

There is something lurking in your past - or perhaps many things - that keep you steeped in your own stuff. Until that stops you aren't safe for Dragn and you are grasping at anything to keep her as your safety net so you won't be alone with yourself. The key is self-worth. If you had it you'd have empathy. But without it life becomes a series of hustles to get it. You must get out of that hustle to be an empathetic trustworthy partner.

I knew my WS was completely fractured after infidelity. He did it to himself. I tried to nice him and reason with him but the shame won until I was done. I was out the door. Only then did he finally get serious about the work he had to do and it was hard and it was painful but you know what? The thing he feared the most wasn't hard at all. Looking inside is scary - and it was for him too - but it finally got him to a place where he understood that as a human he has value and worth and once that happened he was a completely different person.

Aren't you sick of feeling so lousy?

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 8:47 AM, October 30th (Saturday)]

Some quick things:

You mentioned everyone here knowing Dragn but I don't, and never heard of her before this post, so the reply you got from me was based on your post and your responses only. I think that's important to know, that not everyone here has a predefined notion of you. It's also important to notice how someone responds to you if that's the case. That way you can assure yourself that any responses you get are based on you and you alone. So when I pointed out that you don't seem to really want to do this... that opinion was formed from your post and your point of view only. That was all you brother. 100%.

I'm going to share something important with you. While yes, it is certainly possible that people here might have some ideas about what to expect from you based on your wife's posts, what they actually experience from you is entirely up to you.

Let's say (just for the sake of example, I have no idea what she says about you) that your wife says you don't seem to be making an effort to change, at all. All of her SI friends agree and say, "Yeah, he's not even trying". That doesn't make you look very good, right? Okay. So... what can you do about it?

Well, you have (at least) two choices. Choice one is to do what you've been doing so far. Coming here and proving her right. Nothing personal friend, but so far, you often sound like a spoiled teen who doesn't want to clean their room and makes every excuse in the book why it's not getting done. That's the impression you are giving off, so that's what we're seeing.

The other choice however, is to prove her, and us, and everyone... WRONG. Come on here daily. Ask questions. Participate. Find a couples weekend to take her to. Find a better MC/IC and go twice as often and work twice as hard. Make mistakes, learn from them, and keep telling yourself and everyone else that you are going to be a better person or die trying.

What impression will people have of you then? If Dragn says you aren't making any effort, but then you come on here like gangbusters doing the work, fighting to save yourself and your relationship... people will have a much different opinion of you, regardless of what your wife says. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Look, no one ever likes to say, "Poor guy, he fucked up, and was never able to recover, and now his life sucks.". On the other hand, it is more exciting to say, "Man, that guy had his demons, but he really worked hard and overcame them, and look at him today!"

BE THAT MAN. Stop wallowing in your own pain and victimhood, it's not helping you or anyone else. To be honest, it feels as if you've gotten "comfortable" with the idea of being defined as someone less than you really want to be. Stop that.

If you want to be a better person, and if you want other people to see you as a better person, then the answer is really, really simple. Make the effort. Be determined. And be someone better.

No more excuses. The pain, the shame, the anger, the confusion, the grief, the hopelessness... everything you are feeling right now is not a "punishment", it is a consequence of your actions. Negative actions bring negative consequences. Positive actions do the opposite.

What are you afraid of?

What are triggers?
I have heard dragn mentions that I have done some things that have given her triggers..

Triggers are actions, places, things, words that bring back the trauma.

For instance, if there was a motel that you frequented for sexual encounters and your wife had to drive by it everyday to take the kids to school, that would be a trigger. Everyday, driving by the motel would send her into a spiral. Typically the only way to get over triggers is to work through the feelings and the pain they have caused or find ways to avoid them all together (ie. moving). Although I feel it’s better to face them head on.

Each trigger she has is an opportunity for the both of you to work through the pain. It is also a good opportunity to gain some empathy and understand where that pain comes from.

You say you feel like your life is a prison, yet you have the key in your own pocket. You don’t have to stay in this marriage if you don’t want to. If you do, then there are terms that you are agreeing to. Letting her know your whereabouts is a minimal expectation. Both my husband and I do this as a courtesy to each other. We update each other on our day if things change, again as a courtesy. Change your frame of mind. These aren’t things being done to you. These are things that make an honest and open marriage.

You keep dodging the question regarding social media. If this is your door to your infidelity, what are you doing about it? Why do you still have it?

Btw,

Your feet are being put to the fire and you are still engaging. I commend you for that. Keep it up, you will start to eventually see the benefit.

I belive social media isn't helping.altgought its not the source. I do believe access to internet is a bad thing for me

Ok then. So what can you do about it?

Just wanted to add a word on triggers, as IME, many WS don't really "get" what that's about when it comes to infidelity.

One easy, non-infidelity, example is to think about a veteram, who has been traumatized by their combat experiences. When we are all "oohing" and "ahhing" over the cool July 4 fireworks, that vet is completely freaking out (I knew several Vietnam vets with this problem). What's happening is their brain hears fireworks and basically jumps back to those combat experiences - like they are back in the jungle with guns and bombs and bodies and all the trauma of combat. Their system is flooded with adrenaline, the fight/flight response, etc. The fireworks are the "trigger" to their trauma response.

WOEZ described some good examples of that transfers for a BS. It's the same principle - just instead of fireworks, it's things like hotels/places, or dates, or a million other things that "trigger" a BS. About a week or so after dday, I was given a pen to sign something. The pen had the logo of a hotel my WH went to for sex with his LTAP - and I frigging lost it. Thought I was having a heart attack. Palms sweating. Body just overwhelmed and full of adrenaline. All over a PEN. Now, we all know that pen could not hurt me - anymore than fireworks would hurt a combat vet. But in my mind & body, it felt as if I could die. It's basically our "lizard brains" trying to do what they were intended to do back with the cavemen - protect us. It's instinct. Now, with time and a lot of hard work, we humans can learn to get our "executive" brain back online when we experience a trigger. Sometimes more successfully than others. But it can still take a lot of effort & energy to cope/manage in those moments. An empathetic WS can help (as WOEZ said, it can be an OPPORTUNITY to work together).

One way to help yourself understand triggers is to learn about trauma, and accept that trauma is what happens to a BS. This isn't easy for a WS - because the shame can overwhelm them (similar to a trigger overwhelming a BS' trauma).

A few things stood out to me from your posts on this thread, and I'll reply to each of them and then add some more thoughts.

I just don't see how posting on here helps

You don't have to understand this. When I discovered JM (my husband) had broken NC (No Contact) multiple times I wanted to give up. What I did, though, was to define some absolutely non negotiable actions I needed from him. One of those was to post in the Wayward forum here. And just posting randomly was not acceptable to me. He had to post, ask for help and then demonstrate the ability to apply what he was told. He was much like you at that time. It was not in his nature to write out posts or read on a forum. He did not understand how or why it would help me. But it did. It showed me that he was willing to do something that made no sense to him simply because I said it would help me.

Posting here makes feel uncomfortable.

How do you think Dragn feels? Do you think she's had a few uncomfortable moments over the past 11 years? You need to learn to sit with feeling uncomfortable. You need to be willing to accept being uncomfortable for a long time. Show her that you won't run. Show her that you will stand beside her for as long as it takes until she can trust you again.

I know everyone on here knows dragn and I feel like this site is for her. I feel like I don't belong here.

See, the way I see this is that those of us who know Dragn (and love her) want her to find happiness and peace. Nothing would make me happier than for you to pull your head out of your butt, do the work and be the man she deserves.

Doing all this kinda makes me feel like a prisoner in my own life constantly.

Change your narrative. Instead of moping around and telling yourself you're a prisoner in your own life, allow yourself to see the beauty in your life and the incredible grace Dragn has shown you. You are not a prisoner. You don't HAVE to share your location, text your W throughout the day, spend time with your children. You GET to do those things.

I'm an addict in recovery. I did some truly horrible things during my addiction, some of which can never be made right. I deserve to have lost my entire family. I deserve to have been in prison. I deserve to have lost my nursing license and never been allowed to practice nursing again.

God didn't give me any of those things that I deserve. Instead, I was shown mercy. I was allowed to make amends where I could, and have a job that fulfills and restores me. My children love me, my parents and siblings love me, my husband loves me.

Anytime I find myself sitting on the pity pot and whining about what I "deserve" I think about all of those things I didn't get. If I want to demand the life I think I deserve, I have to be willing to accept ALL of it.

As gently as I can say this, you deserve to be divorced, spending less time with your children, and paying child support. That's the natural consequence to infidelity. You have been given grace (good things you don't deserve) and mercy (not receiving the bad things you do deserve). Every time you check in with her, every picture you send to verify your whereabouts remind yourself of the grace and mercy you've been shown. And find a way to believe that each of those "chores" that seem to imprison you is instead a gift that you can give your wife.

And don't expect any specific outcome. She has been hurt badly, for years. Healing may take as many years as the hurting her lasted. Are you up for that?

Lastly, my H offered his time and experience to help you. That offer still stands. I truly, truly hope you do what needs to be done. Because you have to be miserable.

So my husband has a "problem" with fantasy, porn and compulsive masturbation.

He's had 7+ years of abstaining from his behavior. Three years, then he returned to his previous behaviors, and then he's now stopped them for 4+ years.

It took a year of my husband abstaining before he actually started communicating with me.

I still actually don't think he's very empathetic. For example, I've told him many, many times that I need to start hearing real apologies, not just I'm sorry. I've provided him materials, and talked with him. He's not interested in it. Sometimes, if he apologizes, I'll ask him for what, exactly. Because it could be that he forgot to take out the trash, for all I know. Othertimes, I've simply told him to stop apologizing. It's just wasted breath.

Or, one of my other favorite responses...I told him I was having a hard time at the kids' school, as a mom that I imagined he could have fantasized to was sitting next to me. His response. "Well, just move." My husband cannot understand that him telling me to move was not an empathetic response.

Also, living in the modern world, he can't give up internet access. There are somethings he can do at home to help him with his "habits", but that cannot be extended into the workplace. And deleting things are just a stop gap. My husband deleted some peer-to-peer file sharing services that were causing him trouble the first time. The second, he just moved to a different source..LinkedIn digests...

Anyway, IC plus a support group has been the key to lasting change for him (rather than white knuckling). That, and I think he was ready to accept parts of who he is and his short comings in a way he wasn't willing to the first time.

During the first 3 years of my husband behaving differently, him cleaning up his side of the street was enough to make a huge positive impact on our marriage.

Now. We do need IC, because our marriage has run it's course. My husband thinks that his choosing to abstain from his previous choices is the way to make amends to me. I of course, have a different view. Better choices for today don't erase 18 years of lies. Which sort of gets back to what I consider to be signs of empathy..like a proper apology and even having a letter written to me as part of his step work, neither of which my husband isn't going to do.

Anyway, step 1 is figuring out yourself. Then and only then do you have a shot of repairing the marriage.

[This message edited by secondtime at 2:35 AM, Tuesday, November 2nd]

Sorry been a while been a rough time at work. Also trying to get things around here ready for the winter.

I have been limiting my Facebook and getting rid of anything I can see as Sexual or may make me think of the opposite sex. Just things I believe that don't help me.

HFSSC

I am willing to take you up on your offer I think it may help

I want to do this I am not in IC. Doctors of any kinda send me into a panic attack mode.i think I may have to look into it

BS here.

Hey buddy, I know neither you nor Dragn. Apologies it's a bit of a rushed answer but you've asked on here if IC would be beneficial to your situation. I believe everyone who has replied would suggest YES IT WOULD BE!

The thought of having IC and dealing with potential unpleasant or negative aspects to your character (trust me we all have them! ) can be scary. Maybe there are some good psychosexual counsellors near you. Some people cannot face the prospect of counselling. They don't want to have to dig up what's lurking under the surface and deal with it.

How brave are you BH911?

How much do you really want to be with Dragn?

Just my 2p worth.

Best wishes.

Hi BH911,

Do you struggle with thoughts of ever being good enough for your BW? This is something I struggled with a TON. Like, sometimes I'll do the right things and BH will let down his guard, the BAM, I screw up on something minor (being late or spending money on household stuff not discussed), and he would put up the wall again. All my external validation from him would dry up and I would be left feeling more hopeless and "sack of shit" than before. Like, why try since I'll only screw it up anyway and BH will just wall me out again. I'm never going to be good enough for him and never going to make him happy.

Actually, what turned it all around was realizing that I am good enough for ME. Also, I cannot MAKE anyone feel anything. How they feel is how they feel and the only thing I can do is be a safe partner for him so he can have some space to do his own healing. Once I realized this, and realized that I am strong enough to live my life D or R, I started noticing some changes in our relationship. For the better. BH no longer had to carry the burden of being the one maintaining my stability and could start his healing. BH is just starting to trust that maybe I am becoming a safe partner- my needs for external validation are dropping and becoming the "icing on the cake" in my life instead of the actual cake itself.

NONE OF THIS CAME FROM ME WHITE KNUCKLING IT AND DOING IT ALONE. I've been in IC over 2 years. BH has been in IC for a whole year - something he resisted for YEARS. That only happened because I decided I had enough of his reactivity and could only do my part to heal him, he had to start working on himself. I called a lawyer and initiated D. I told him I would call it off if he got in IC and participated in it. It was a shitty maneuver on my part, but one I wouldn't have been able to do (be assertive and say I need this or I have to leave) if I hadn't begun my work in IC.

We've since been working things out in MC, our relationship is improving although very rocky at times. We're learning to ride the waves together. NONE OF WHICH WAS POSSIBLE WITHOUT BOTH OF US IN IC.

I can't stress enough how a good IC for both of you can be CRITICAL for your healing. GET ONE NOW.

Wishing you guys the best.

IC works if you want to make some changes in yourself. You mentioned a number of things you don't like about your life. IC can help you change what you're doing so that you will come to like your life.

There are several ways out of feeling like a prisoner, getting distracted by sexual stuff in social media, feeling like Dragn has a place here but you don't....

You DO have a place here, if you want it. You can get help.

You have control over which changes you will make. IC can help you be the person you want to be - and if you do the work with a good IC, it WILL help you be the person you want to be.

I'm going to level with you in the hopes that maybe you can locate some empathy for your wife. She is still with you after all of the DDays and all of the cheating and inappropriate behavior. I can't begin to tell you what a gift that is. It costs her every day. The stress of living with a partner who is at constant risk of cheating is profound. It is more of a prison sentence for her than any of the things you view as prison. Maybe you aren't worried about her leaving. So let's say she continues to stay. Emotional stress causes numerous health problems. Her actual lifespan will be reduced if you continue on as you are. She will not be able to find joy in life. She won't be able to parent to her best ability. She is crippled by this. She is going to suffer real consequences for your lack of empathy. If her suffering isn't enough for you to find some empathy, you need some serious help.

I presume you get a nice adrenaline shot off of looking for casual encounters. I bet those endorphins give you a lift. Is it okay with you that your wife suffers every time you do these things? Is it okay with you to make her pay the bill for your fun? If every time you took a bite of delicious cake you had to kick her in the stomach, would that be a fair trade-off in your mind? No? That's basically what you've been doing all this time. If that sounds awful and that's not the person you want to be, you are the only one who can change that. She can't change it no matter what rules she tries to enforce. This is all on you. You can be a different kind of person, but that is a choice you have to make and work that you have to put forth.