Newest Member: Butterfly19

Just Found Out :
Thinking I feel a change in the wind

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totallydumb ( member #66269) posted at 5:24 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

holdfast2, I am truly sorry that you have a reason to access this site.

Please take some time and read some of the stories of some of the members on this site. Some of them are extremely heart breaking. Also, try and remember that those of us on this site, have been through exactly what you are now experiencing. We have been there and done that.

Our advice comes from our own tough times that we have gone through. Sometimes, we see new betrayed spouses come here and tell us that their spouse is different, or the love that they shared was not like anything we have seen.

Sadly, after some time, and some hard knocks from the cheating spouse, these attitudes change. It is seen in countless situations on this forum. Don't believe me, take a read for yourself.

A couple of things that you should consider

Go see your Doctor and get a full STD/STI panel done. If you have been intimate with your wife after she has had visits with her AP, there is a possibility that you may contracted a STD that could be life threatening. You do not know who else her AP has been with. Protect your health, your children will need you in good health to make good decisions going forward.

Marriage counselling is a waste of time and money while your wife is actively engaged in a affair. She needs individual counselling with a therapist who has experience dealing with infidelity to help her figure out "why" she thinks it is okay to get into a relationship with someone else while in a committed relationship with you. She also needs to fix those whys with the help of the therapist.

You probably need IC with a different therapist who has experience with infidelity trauma to help you deal with this situation.

At some point in the future, marriage counselling may be required if both of you decide to try and save the marriage. Notice I said both of you. You cannot save the marriage by yourself.

Marriage counsellors tend to see the marriage as the client. However, your marriage did not cheat, you did not cheat. YOUR WIFE did cheat. Why would anyone counsel the marriage in this situation?

So, perhaps you can get yourself some IC, and suggest it to your wife as well. She may or may not take your advice. You cannot control what she does, but you can control what you do.

Get yourself into the gym and start a good workout routine. This will help you work out some anxiety and anger. As a side benefit you will look and feel better as well. Eat healthy, stay away from the fast foods/junk foods, booze and recreational drugs are out of bounds too. Along with IC helping your mind, you need to have your body in good shape going forward too.

Take care.

If you see your ex with someone else--don't be jealous. Our parents taught us to give our old,used toys to the less fortunate.

posts: 455   ·   registered: Sep. 23rd, 2018   ·   location: Alberta, Canada
id 8691388
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 5:49 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I’m sorry for the pain you are in. No one deserves what she has done.

But I need to tell you, that you have tacitly approved an open marriage. Your inaction has permitted it.

I want to tell you something very hard as well. By taking filing for divorce off the table, you have essentially committed to staying in this open marriage as long as she wants it. Perhaps forever.

She enjoys having both of you. And she can move between both of you as much as she wants. She can have sex with both of you. She can do fun things with both of you.

So if I were you, I’d look seriously into whether or not this is the life you want. I’d even recommend working with a therapist who specializes in Infidelity and emotional trauma.

Why would she ever divorce you? She has the best of both worlds. She can come and go as she pleases and she can have you as the baby sitter when she goes on week long fuck fests which her boyfriend.

And why would he marry her? He gets the best parts of her while you get the real world.

Reconciliation only works when the betrayed spouse makes himself no longer part of his or her partner’s world. When he or she takes action to list their boundaries, list the requirements for working to rebuild the relationship, and then leaves. Separates. Detaches. Until the wayward spouse actually does those things. Meets those requirements. Does the work.

Not when they SAY that will do it. But when they actually do it.

That means

1) ending the relationship with the other man

2) being fully open with all communication technology.

3) admitting to family and friends what they have done and how they have hurt you

4) documenting the timeline of the affair including everything they did together where they did it what they though and how they felt.

5) starting counseling with a therapist who specializes in Infidelity

6) no more alone with men. Ever

These are just the first few things they need to do to rebuild a happy meaningful relationship with their partner.

Even if they commit to do these things and mean it, the chances you will reconcile and have a happy life are less than 50%.

But those are the best odds you will find.

I’d say with your approach, having a happy life and feeling safe and trusting your partner again is close to zero. I really mean it.

Again, why would she ever make you her one and only ever again? If it’s not this guy, it will be the next. She knows you won’t leave her because of it. She knows you won’t file.

So you have some very important soul searching to do here. You need to decide if your hate of divorce is more important than your dislike of having a wife who has sex with other men. Who lives with other men part of the year.

Your children are already living away from you. That’s not going to stop. and when you have them, she’s gonna continue to take weeks or months at a time letting you raise them while she gives love and affection to someone else.

The Catholic Church allows for annulment or divorce due to infidelity. You are doing nothing wrong here. This is not your fault. But she will never leave you if she gets to be with whomever she wants when she wants.

So I will tell you, you will figure out, there is no other option that works in this scenario. The best chance you have at saving your marriage. The best chance, and none of them are likely, but the best chance you have, is to stop fearing losing it.

And if you can find the courage to stand up to her, tell her you will no longer live like this, and file for D until she changes her behavior and focuses on you and no one else, then you will finally be fighting for your marriage.

Right now you are fighting for nothing. If she gets tired of this guy, there will be a next one, because she knows you won’t do anything about it.

So it’s time to do something about it. Speak to a lawyer this week. Set up for her to be served with D papers. Then This is what I would tell her. Modify for the situation:

Wife. I am no longer Interested in being in a marriage where I am not my partners one and only like she is mine. This is not working for me. I love you. I’m in love with you. But your infidelity has broken my heart.

You can be with whomever makes you happy. But if you are with me, you are With me and only me.

If you are with him, then you have ended our marriage as we agreed to it on our wedding day and you can no longer be with me as wife and husband.

I will be taking steps to legally end the marriage your cheating has destroyed. There are many things you will need to do to rebuild our relationship. I don’t think you have it in you to do any of them.

First is you and the kids get on a Flight and come home today.

Second, you break up with him and never see or communicate with him again, ever and you actively keep him out of our lives as a family

Third you provide open access to all your communications. I will do the same

Fourth you work with a therapist and you get this man out of your heart and see him as the family wrecker he truly is.

That is just the start. If you do those Things we can begin discussing what it takes to rebuild this marriage instead of ending it.

But it starts right now at this moment. If you’re in you book a flight this afternoon and come home.

I don’t think you have it in uou. Prove me wrong. In the meantime I’ll be working to heal how you have hurt me and that starts with starting the work to legally end this farce of a relationship.

Then you stop talking to her. I’m sorry, but if you did this six months ago you’d probably be out of the limbo you are living in.

Look, think about what you want. The path you are on will end up leaving you never trusting her again and being a lifelong cuckold to either this guy or the next or the many to follow.

It’s your life. You do what you want. But you kinda asked a question if her latest communications are a positive and I have to be honest with you but NO, I dont think they are. They are just words. They don’t mean anything. They are her stringing you along further and further.

And even if they are true, they’ll only last until she’s home again and then gets that itch and need it scratched and you’ll find her on a flight back to his winter wonderland.

PleaSe take real action. We want more for you. We want happiness someday for you. You’re not very close to that right now.

You’re in good company here. Tens of thousands who have been they what you’re experiencing. Listen to them. I promise you that you’ll wish you did sooner.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:59 AM, Sunday, October 3rd]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3199   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8691391
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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 6:54 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I know that I needed the unvarnished truth from other BS's on this forum. It just hits hard.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but this is the first thing you’ve said that makes a bit of sense in the context of dealing with a wayward.

First thing is to accept that the only thing about your situation that is unique is that it involves you…the rest is common in infidelity, your WW is not special, she’s just yours, and in that is the sole person responsible for her actions.

Nearly all waywards think and act the same…self adsorbed and unconcerned about the hurt they cause all around them, everything is about what they want and you don’t matter.

Regardless of your history, your religion, or how much you love them, they don’t care and will throw you away like yesterdays news if it gets them what they want, otherwise they wouldn’t have decided to cheat.

If you want to salvage anything here, be it your M, your relationship with your kids, or your dignity…stop playing along and doing the pick me dance. This course of action never ends well for the BS.

Also, we don’t toss D around lightly here, it is serious business and should be taken that way.

This place is about surviving infidelity, starting with getting yourself OUT of infidelity (with or without your wayward) and then healing…that is surviving.

You cannot heal yourself or your M while there is an active A ongoing, so you need to remove yourself from the M relationship if your WS will not stop her A, permanently if need be. This is not over-reacting or extreme, it is solid and logical advice from individuals that are more experienced with the process who are looking out for your well being, and that of your children.

Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*

**Working at Reconciling**

posts: 3381   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: The Big Easy
id 8691392
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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 6:59 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

But I need to tell you, that you have tacitly approved an open marriage. Your inaction has permitted it.

I want to tell you something very hard as well. By taking filing for divorce off the table, you have essentially committed to staying in this open marriage as long as she wants it. Perhaps forever.

I will second this.

Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*

**Working at Reconciling**

posts: 3381   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: The Big Easy
id 8691393
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ADryHeat ( member #46484) posted at 7:47 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I’m rarely on here to reply to posts any longer bc my ex’s affair (the one I know of, anyhow) was in 2014-2015. Your post made me want to log in and respond.

I know 2x4s sting. I also know what people are saying to you comes from a place of wanting you to really stop and evaluate your situation and possible alternative approaches to it. You love your wife - I get it. I loved my ex. No one is saying loving her is wrong.

I wanted to point out a few things you mentioned in your background that I haven’t seen discussed, just to encourage you to maybe look harder at them. Food for thought, if you will.

1. You mention in your dating history that you would periodically break up and shed date other men, but you wouldn’t date other women. Why do you think she would do that, and how did it make you feel? Do you see a pattern there that taught her that you would always be available, no matter what she did? Do you see how she came back to marry you bc you were the dependable one? In your mind, is that a positive, or did it ever give you pause realizing she felt ok about walking away whenever she wanted and knowing you would always accept her back? How do you think that plays into your marriage patterns now?
2. Am I understanding correctly that she left with your kids to stay with the other man and essentially do a ‘trial run’ with him and the kids WHILE you were stuck at home recovering from COVID after being hospitalized? How does that sit with you? Is that how you imagine a godly woman caring for her husband and her family?
3. Would it be accurate to say that while you were struggling with your mental health due to a work situation that was toxic, rather than sitting with you holding space and supporting you, she sought attention of others and escapism in online gaming? And that she used your personal struggle and time of need as an excuse to blame you for her unhappiness and an opportunity to find someone else to entertain her? Is that how you imagine a wife is supposed to support you?

There’s a lot more I could ask - but I see you’re set in your mind that you want her back. What if I told you her "I chose you three times" is manipulative and cruel, and that you deserve better than that? What if I said as a woman that no wife should be throwing scraps of "While I’m off with our kids actively and blatantly having an affair, you should feel honored that I held it over your head by putting a number to how many times I ‘chose’ you over him" at her loyal and loving husband and the father of her kids? What does ‘choosing you three times’ mean anyhow? Can she name those times? What do they look like?

Respectfully, without even knowing you, you seem like a man who absolutely and unequivocally loves your wife. It’s just too bad she can’t see the value of that.

Me: BS
Married 11 years, 2 young kids
DDay 11/3/14, Discovered he was still a fuckwit: 7/10/15
DIVORCED 11/12/2015
"Sometimes when you're in a dark place you think you've been buried, but actually you've been planted."

posts: 2390   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2015   ·   location: AZ
id 8691395
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 11:13 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

There is a mythical Cheater’s Handbook that has all the common lies, manipulations, scurrilous behaviors of cheaters. Usually the cheaters lie by saying they never had sex, only kissed etc. you get the point. These are garden variety cheaters. Your wife skipped over to about chapter 13. It makes me wonder if she could be a sociopath. I have no ability to diagnose anyone but a little time on the net looking up Personality Disorders give you ideas of what to look for when you are as badly treated as you have been. Something is seriously wrong when one person keeps running over a victim who stands up to be run over again.
We just want you to stop hurting and this will not happen as long as you tolerate this treatment.

To thine own self be true. Shakespeare

posts: 2945   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8691400
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hcsv ( member #51813) posted at 11:52 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

You are the third person in your own marriage. You ok with that?

What about school? Have the kids not been in school? Get in the car and go get the kids and get them back to their home and school. Their mother has disrupted their lives for long enough. Kids need consistency.

After 40 years, ex turned into someone I didnt know and couldnt trust anymore. Divorced. 1/17

posts: 650   ·   registered: Feb. 14th, 2016
id 8691401
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 11:58 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

A few thoughts:

1 - she dated abusive men in the past. She is now abusing you. Adultery is not just a sin but it's abuse.

2 - love is not an excuse for you to allow yourself to be abused. You can love her and still divorce her.

3 - staying married and tolerating her adultery makes you morally complicit as well as an insult to God.

4 - in your circumstances, experience shows that the best strategy to save your marriage is the same regardless of whether you want to divorce or reconcile. Zero tolerance for adultery, 100% NC, and her believing (bluff if you have to) that you will divorce her.

5 - it's not too late to get your kids back. Talk to an attorney and take the necessary steps immediately.

posts: 2420   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8691402
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 1:00 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Her actions trump her words. Every time.

Believe what she does not what she says.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10686   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8691406
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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 1:24 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

No judge in the western world is going to let her take the kids across the country unless you allow it. Also, they should be in school, not driving across the country to meet some fuck buddy.

If you want to be a doormat, so be it. But you need to man up and protect your babies. This woman is going to destroy them. Ask me how I know!

posts: 1067   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8691408
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 3:26 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Your wife is choosing you now because of the circumstances with cold winters where the AP lives.

Your wife brought your children across country to stay with a man she met online? Dude, he could be a serial pedophile for all you know and you've done nothing yet?

As a Christian, we must PROTECT OUR CHILDREN. Meet with a attorney and protect your kids.

The Bible states clearly adultery is grounds for divorce.

Your wife is using you. You are the provider while she goes out and enjoys f*cking another man with your kids in tow and you say you've got unconditional loved? Come on, I'm speechless in how you are handling this. Sometimes love is not enough.

Your wife has shown such disrespect for you. She's putting the lives of your children possibly in danger. I would protect my kids AT ALL COSTS.

Please meet with an attorney ASAP. Also please find a good counselor for yourself to figure out WHY you would tolerate her abuse.

She had an affair in the middle of a pandemic, that's how little she considered the health and safety of her family.

Please realize you are Plan B.

posts: 11265   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8691417
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:07 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Your wife’s priorities ARE NOT the children sadly.

Please stop allowing her to dictate the future where they are concerned. You are the only voice they have.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10686   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8691423
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Notaboringwife ( member #74302) posted at 4:09 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Holdfast2,

I know for a fact that I won't stop loving her, no matter how much or how badly she hurts or mistreats me, because I know me.

I believe you. If you truly love her that much, then her happiness is paramount. Let her go to be happy with her AP.

Just protect your children's well being as a good father, they are confused.

My best wishes to you and your children.

It's your road & yours alone. Others may walk it with you, but no one can walk it for you.Though nobody can go back and make a new beginning... you can start over and make a new ending.

posts: 220   ·   registered: Apr. 24th, 2020
id 8691425
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 4:14 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

So she lied to a pastor, left you high and dry with pneumonia, and has been repeatedly opening her legs to another man for how long? Think about what you'd be getting back: a loose woman who lies to someone she allegedly believes is a representative of God and can't even stand by her husband in his most dire hour. She's damaged goods in more ways than one.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49 Married: Feb. 1996 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2:

posts: 4301   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8691426
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 4:23 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

There is a lot of disfunction here, both on the relationship level and individual level.

So your WW chooses you - how long will it be before this occurs again, and again? Of course, at some point she’ll find her limerant partner who will become permanent, and then she’ll dump you. I hope you realize that you’re simply a placeholder until this occurs.

I think you’re also stretching the definition of unconditional love. You’re a victim of abuse, apologizing for this abuse by titling it unconditional love.

Please wake up and listen to everything these knowledge posters have written.

posts: 141   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8691427
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Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 4:34 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Hold Fast, I want to tell you I admire your commitment to your marriage. I sincerely mean that. I think it's all too easy to jump to the conclusion that your desire to keep your wife makes you a chump. While we find it easy to believe and understand limerence when it comes to our parter and their affair person, a lot of us don't recognize the same thing in our reactions to our cheater when we first find out. I know that I was very guilty of that. All of a sudden my husband had no flaws. in. my mind we were two against the world, or the AP, who surely had cast an evil spell on him. I didn't make the most rational decisions in the world at that time, but like you, when I discovered the affair I was truly, deeply in love with my husband. So I get it.

I also agree with your assessment that there might be a change in the wind. That she called you while she is under his "in person" influence and told you that in the contest for her, you won three times today, was interesting. Let me preface that by saying I've never heard of anything that arrogant in my life, and that's saying something given my relationship history. It's like she's reduced your marriage to an episode of The Apprentice. She's certain that both you and her AP want to win. That's a very powerful position for someone to be in mentally,

The fact that she said that to you could mean a couple of things. 1.) She is seeing something in real life, with the added presence of your kids, that isn't so great. 2.) She's made up her mind to be with him, but wants to keep you in the game to give her time to plan her exit. You have to be prepared for either, and more importantly, how you react to either. Only you can decide.

I agree with everyone's concern about your kids. However, now the important thing is getting them back home. The grand experiment is over and you don't have to let her take them across state lines again. If worse comes to worse and you get divorced, you may have to face that decision in the future, but don't beat yourself up about that now.

I don't think you have to sell yourself here. I think a smarter approach would be to ask some uncomfortable questions about him. You have that right, given she took it upon herself to involve your kids. This guy lives across the country, buy it appears from what you wrote, she's the only one buying plane tickets. Why is that? Does she have more money? Does he refuse to leave where he lives and give up his life style? Why did they stay in a B&B? If I were madly in love with someone enough to have them leave their spouse, I'd be welcoming his kids and him with open arms in my house. I'd be making them all breakfast. Is it because he controls his world and wants your wife, but not the loss of control that comes with kids he doesn't really know in his midst?

If she has to answer those questions, the comparison to you will be obvious. By your own admission you've been accommodating her and her whims since you were 15. He can't accommodate the whole package of her for 3 weeks. I think if there is anything you have to change about yourself, it's realizing your value. You know you've been her safe place to land, and now she needs to be reminded of the value of that. That's not competing for her. It is simply realizing and stating how attractive your qualities are to women, and that you'll be just fine whatever she decides. Nothing turns a woman's head like a confident and kind man. If she wants to keep you because of that, good for you, but let her know that it has rules and boundaries. If she doesn't let her know it's her loss and will likely be someone else's gain. It's not a threat. It's life.

posts: 1537   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8691429
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Slanted ( member #71939) posted at 4:37 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I've read through your story with dismay, because you clearly love your wife and deserve to be loved in the same unconditional way. You say you are not here for advice, but we're all going to try to help anyway. It is what people do here. So don't take this as advice. Take it as people who've seen this stuff far too much telling you what they have observed over and over and hoping you will see how your situation fits with all those other ones.

Maybe the easiest way to say it is this: if you want your life back on terms that are any different from what you have now with all the cheating and choosing, you have to walk the other way, resolutely. You have to go to a place of respect and care for yourself above her. She will probably follow you there to see what is happening, and the truth is she probably can't stay there permanently because of her longtime habits. But that is the only way you will find out.

If you don't do that, you will only get more of this awful pain. You will either learn to live this way or choose to live a different way. You did not ask for this and you do not deserve this. But that's where you are. Very many of us have been there, too. Good luck.

posts: 175   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2019
id 8691430
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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 5:02 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Good luck.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8691435
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goalong ( member #57352) posted at 5:11 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

if you are truly saying you love unconditionally (love without attachment or clinging as it says in Buddhism) you are above the mental states of most of other people as for most people attachment come along with love. In such a higher mental state one does not suffer or fall in to depression no matter what the lost is.
So I hope you can conduct your other affairs without any hindrance because of your wife's actions

[This message edited by goalong at 5:12 PM, Sunday, October 3rd]

posts: 777   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
id 8691438
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:51 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I say just keep the status quo as is. It doesn't seem to bug you all that much that she has a lover that she holds in higher regard than she does you, so just leave it alone.

posts: 2646   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8691442
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